UPDATE FROM BUNK THREE
I’ve been here about a month now. I am fine physically and even getting in a little better shape since I have time to work out several times a day. The food is tolerable and the room is well lit and comfortable. The five new converts that are in this pod with me are meeting with me four to five times each day for Bible study and prayer. This is a pastor’s dream! It would take most churches a year to cover what we cover every week. Our group has been through, verse-by-verse, Matthew, Mark and Acts as well as most of Proverbs. I started with the 6,000-year time line and gave several days of general overview of the entire Bible. It is awesome to see the spiritual hunger in these men.
I have also been teaching math and science to some of the others. It is great to see convicted drug dealers get excited when they learn fourth grade level math for the first time. I have spent quite a bit of time with one 29-year-old man who cannot read at all. I have been teaching him phonics and we are reading Genesis 1, 2, 3 and John 1, 2, and 3. His face lights up when he sees that he can do it. I offer commissary items like soup or coffee to men who memorize Bible verses. There is no way to describe the joy that they show when they get it right. Many have never memorized scriptures in their life, and maybe that is why they are in jail. Scripture helps us to “cleanse our ways” Psalm 119:9-11.
Please pray that the judge will rule in our favor and I will be released soon. If an acquittal is not granted, the appeal can take months and even years.
Meanwhile pray for our little church “G20″. Our office has addresses if you would like to write to encourage the men. Many have alienated their families before coming here and get no mail or visits.
You can also write letters on my behalf to the court. Letters can be sent to CSE, who will give them all to the attorneys. The letters should be addressed “To the Court”, and may reference such things as our character, our Christian beliefs, and how the CSE ministry has impacted your life and ministry. These letters must be received by December 9th.
Keep praying for God’s greater glory and that I will be released soon. Keep winning souls. Keep listening for the trumpet!
Remember my bonds,
Kent Hovind
207 Responses to “UPDATE FROM BUNK THREE”
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Eren
Said this on December 1st, 2006 at 9:21pm:Hi-I wrote a reply but haven’t seen it go through. Is there something i need to do so it will go throug?
In Christ,
Eren-
russell
Said this on December 1st, 2006 at 9:52pm:I have testimony by those words of Psalm 119, which I have indeed taken to heart. Most importantly of all, however, I have testimony of the salvation of my soul by the blood of the resurrected Christ Jesus, and I continually praise God for it! I am also grateful to the Lord for the service of Brother Hovind and his faithful fellowservants at CSE, who sowed precious seed in my heart a few years back through the work of their ministry. It was integral in setting me on the path that finally lead me to the cross and beyond that in service to our risen Savior as a preacher of His Word, as an evangelist who speaks on creation science as well as other topics, and as an Independent, temperamental, fundamental, right-wing, radical, Bible-thumpin’ baptist. (Amen!)
I don’t know the specifics of the allegations against Kent and Jo or of the ensuing trial, however, barring my inclination to extrapolate on my familiarity with the tax code and the IRS’ propensity to corruption of our society through the gross misapplication of the law and general disregard for justice, I shall just say this:
1. It woul.d take a considerable amount of hard-pressed persuasion and concrete evidence to cause me to believe that this my brother in Christ has actually broken any tax laws, let alone having done it with the intent of ripping off we the people (i.e., the government). I would even be willing to wager that Kent has a doctrinally-sound understanding of Matthew 17, which is NOT, by the way, that Jesus “paid his taxes.” This is in spite of the notion that I may disagree with him on how to deal with the issue of our long-abated civil liberties through the corrosion of constitutional efficacy. It really just boils down to which dragons we choose to slay. He chose one that fights dirty.
2. I will nevertheless continue praying that Kent be released once he has sufficiently ministered to the men of “G20″ and for the restoration of his wife, family, and work at CSE, that he might be more effectual back in his own element, for the sake of the gospel. Furthermore, the courts will be hearing from another brother and concerned citizen with regards to the incarceration of this righteous man. So help me God, they will come to know this tree by its fruit; Lord willing, they will come to their senses and take a truly critical look at the facts AND the law! Also, we need to pray for our judges and lawyers, otherwise sophistry of the courts just may become our nation’s undoing, precisely as Lincoln predicted.
Satan slings his deadliest artillery at the Lord’s most valuable assets. Whether by a miracle or otherwise, it will be a great testimony to the church if our brother is acquitted and yet another opportunity to “endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ” if he is not. God is still on his throne, regardless. I rejoice at the persecution and give thanks for laborers like this.
The heel may be bruised, but it’s still marching onward to victory. To the Lord God Almighty be the glory.
brendaballard
Said this on December 1st, 2006 at 10:54pm:My husband and I were just talking about what you’ve addressed in this letter. What a wonderfull way to spend your free time. God has given you a wonderfull gift to have the time to reach out to the men that sociaty has taught to be animals. I know what it’s like to be seperated from my husband with TDY’s when he was in the military though and I pray every day that you get to see your wife and that your separation won’t be long. We have been so excited to watch your lectures for the past six months or so and wish to see you in person someday. Our prayers are with you in Jesus name.
Brenda
robertvina
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 1:21am:Dear Brother Hovind, CSE, and family,
It’s good to hear that you are doing well and to see that you have a positive spin on these events. I have all of you in my prayers, and I hope everything works out for the glory of God (and I know it will). In the meantime brothers and sisters, hang on and continue in the works of the Lord.
Pray for me as I try to show people that the conjecture of evolution (I refuse to dignify it as a theory, such as the Theory of Relativity), and so far, I have some good work done. I, along with a friend, have been going around showing people, including our Biology instructor that evolution is in fact at best a good guess, or a bad hypothesis/conjecture. I am currently writing a paper on the most used evidences for evolution, and whether our knowledge in science really confirms them, or not.
Pray for me as I continue in the Lord, pray that my education go well and that I do well in school, and pray for my wish to be in apologetics. Thank you for the materials that CSE has provided.
God bless you,
Robert
Nehemiah Jeon
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 2:03am:Oh, our Lord is amazing.
Dr. Hovind, just wait for the day. I pray, and believe that you’ll be released, soon.
I’d like to thank you for impacting my life so much. (sincerely!)
Lord bless you, your family, and your ministry!!
Nehemiah.
Godisgood
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 6:24am:Dear Dr. Hovind,
Please know that you are being prayed for as well as your family and the ministry. God is so faithful and He IS taking care of the situation. I’m so glad that you get to teach God’s Word there and that there is a hunger to know. We are so thankful for your life and all that you do for God’s people. My family wrote a letter “To the Court” and it will go out today.
Agape,
Jean
JesusIsLord
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 10:10am:Dear Brother Hovind,
Glad to hear about the spirtual hunger these 5 converts have for the Word of God, glad to see that your taking time to share the Word of God with them and teach the other prisoners basic math and science…. Will continue to pray for you and your family brother, be assured of our prayers, really hoping and praying that you will be out soon, will pray for church “G20″ and will pray that God will continue to build it so that many other prisoners come to know and love the Lord Jesus Christ as well.
Does any of the prisoners have e-mail addresses? silly question but are you allowed on the internet in prison? wasn’t sure whether your updating this blog or whether someone from the CSE team is doing it for you? would be happy to e-mail any of the prisoners, maybe you could post some of their e-mail addresses on a blog for me and others if they have access to e-mail that is.
God bless,
Wayne.
“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.” Romans 5:1-5 Hope in God brother!!
bembeneck
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 3:35pm:How exciting to see a change in someone when they go from darkness to light. That is one of the joys of teaching when the student understands what it being taught.
I would like to appeal to Kent Hovind to provide a factual statement of what the dealings with the government have been. I was disappointed when I wrote to CSE requesting that type of statement. They graciously stated: “Thank you for your interest, we don’t have anything that we can give you that tells you exactly what was stated in the trial, and in the newspaper that is incorrect, there is simply too many. As we can, and as we are able to disclose them, we will let everyone know by placing statements on our blog at http://www.cseblogs.com. I hope this information helps. Also, we do have current updates on the blog right now.”
My research started because of several conversations with one of my children who has listened many times to the Kent Hovind tapes. I looked up newspaper articles regarding the situation but what the newspapers said didn’t hold any weight with my child. I called the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Pensacola and they did confirm a recent trial had taken place. I then proceeded to seek other ways to view official documents regarding the court dealings with Kent Hovind. To this end,I have been at the public library in our area using a database called West Law and have read many of the court documents pertaining to the dealings between the government and the Hovinds. It was very grievous to me what I learned.
How is the cause of promoting creationism and the young earth theory aided when the personal life of the speaker is embroiled in a financial nightmare. How is the cause of Christ promoted when the personal message of the speaker is, I don’t believe in the law therefore I refuse to recognize or respect the law and follow its guidelines? How is the principle of stewardship of the Lord’s money honoured by not filing income tax returns and paying the taxes?
When I viewed the videos about creationism, even though I enjoyed hearing about the different arguments for creationism, I knew that I wouldn’t share them with a nonbeliever because of the mocking spirit of Kent Hovind. Is it ever right to be sarcastic and mocking? Is that the spirit that the Lord Jesus Christ would support?
Is it right to refuse to honour a law because you don’t believe it is right? Is that how you run your families? If your child doesn’t agree with your rule is it perfectly ok for your child to call you and the rule names and just ignore it and then claim such to all those that will listen?
Surely the Lord Jesus Christ is the best example of honouring a court ruling that was wrong in his case. Here the holy, sinless, son of God, submitted to the worst kind of humiliating, painful death. Why? To pay for our sin that we could not pay for ourselves so that we could have a personal relationship with Him.
If my children behaved similar to how Kent Hovind’s behaviour has been described in the court documents that I read they would be labeled disobedient, rebellious children.
These events have been upsetting to my child. We have now, once again looked at the U.S. Constitution, reading the 16th amendment. My child saw an inconsistency between speaking about social security taxes on the videos but not mentioning federal income taxes. That inconsistency caused them to rethink the position they were taking based upon reading this blog.
Here are three of several court documents that I read regarding Kent Hovind.
United States Tax Court. Kent E. Hovind, Petitioner v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Respondent. No. 11894-05L. July 6, 2006
United States District Court, N.D. Florida. United States of America, Petitioner, v. Cox Cable Communications, Respondent. No. 98CV118?RV. April 28, 1998.
United States Bankruptcy Court, N.D. Florida, Pensacola Division. In Re Kent E. Hovind, Debtor. Bankruptcy No. 96-0256. June 5, 1996.
Seeking truth,
Beth Bembeneck
FreeAmerica
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 6:08pm:Kent,
Thanks for all your hard work, your ministry has been great encouragement to my faith. I’m praying for you here in Appleton, Wisconsin.
My paster briefly mentioned that you were in trouble with the IRS and that we should pray for you. He also suggested that you where wrong about your stance against paying income taxes. And just gave the typical “render unto Caesar” argument as his backing. I was quite saddened by his view. He has recently also been having some troubles, taking a leave from the pulpit for a few months. I just can’t help but wondering if it has something to do with his comment about your situation, maybe the Lord wants to correct him on this issue. The the only other big disagreement I have ever had with my pastor was his teaching of the gap theory. But Thanks to you he seems to have seen the light on this issue.
Anyway much thanks for your courage to take a stand. While many of our brothers in Christ are blinded on this difficult issue, I think the truth is getting out. At least when it comes to the IRS and the Federal Reserve. Another area that is also very lacking is peoples perception or interpretation of Romans 13. Clearly the bible doesn’t teach unlimited submission to anyone who calls authority over us, especially a tyrannical thug like Caesar.
Your fellow Patriot in Christ,
Jeremy
Here are some good sermons on civil government / romans 13:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&keyword=weaver&keyworddesc=Freedom+Ministries&currsection=sermonssource&AudioOnly=false&SourceOnly=true&keywordwithin=civil&x=0&y=0
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=121503101752
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=11130212230
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=330412270
Jason
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 7:03pm:Hi to Kent & all who are interested righting injustice.
First I wish to apologize if my last post caused offense, my interests are not to upset people but to try and activate people. I really am sorry if I was too strong in my writing.
I have attached below an email I wrote to a Christian Ministry, asking them for help on Kent’s behalf. I’m hoping to inspire people to petition other Christian ministries to lend their support to Kent’s plight.
(I have edited out all references to the Ministry itself, because I don’t think it fair to put them on the spot to perform, this is just to (hopefully) inspire others, not to blow my own trumpet).
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Hi to ***************, and all the good people who help to staff His ministry,
Dear ******, before I say anything else, I am a Christian, I love the body of Christ here upon this earth, as well as His actual physical person in Heaven & I am concerned for His name & wish to give honor to Him while waiting in eager anticipation for His return.
I live in England, and know of your ministry through watching your lectures upon Christian TV. I have found your lectures a real blessing in my life, bringing me solid foundation & understanding in doctrinal issues, points of understanding not covered for me by any other ministry or teacher…
Foundational teaching upon history i.e. the reformation, Luther, & repentance being a gift. etc..
Your teaching is good, and always worth watching & listening to.
Thank you…
It was because of the education I received from you about Luther that I felt emboldened to write to you.
You taught that Luther was imprisoned because of conscience, that he could not recant unless he was convicted by scripture & plain reason….
“my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. [Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise.] God help me. Amen.”
With this thought in mind I wish to bring before you Dr. Kent Hovind, Christian Evangelist who is right now imprisoned because of his conscience.
http://www.cseblogs.com – He is able to communicate to us that his ministry still goes on.
If you are unfamiliar with his ministry, video’s of his seminars & debates can be found on Google Video. They really are excellent, very watchable even my children love them.
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=kent+hovind
The crime that he is accused of is best highlighted in this video below, a documentary which exposes a severe problem of corruption within the American State. Is there an actual written Law which requires an American citizen to pay income tax? This documentary clearly exposes the lawlessness of modern day America. (this video is not necessarily a Christian Video although it does contain an end time message in scripture).
Freedom2Fascism by Aaron Russo
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198&q=freedom+to+fascism
I would like to point out here that, I don’t have any affiliation with Kent Hovind or his ministry at all. I write because of my own conscience before God (not by request or coercion from others).
My only connection to Kent Hovind is this…
I found his video’s on the internet, and was greatly impressed. Kent’s presentation in his Biblical teaching is amazingly simple to understand, he lays science with the Bible fairly, squarely confidently and accurately. It’s all easily repeatable for the non-scientifically minded and with the volume of evidence presented, leaves the viewer feeling confident to refute the non-science of evolution.
Kent says in his video’s that anyone is free to copy his video’s as he is more interested in spreading the word, than receiving money (although it would be good if you supported the ministry by buying them all the same).
Therefore Dr. Kent Hovind would be wrongly accused of committing a crime based on greed.
Being, personally, financially challenged I was overjoyed to be able to copy his video’s and distribute them to those around me. All who watched them brought back positive reports themselves feeling a growing confidence to shout out that science and the Bible are one in the same.
My children watch his video’s all the time & request more.
The crime that he is accused of committing is essentially the same as that committed by the American Patriarchs in 1773 in the incident known as the “Boston Tea Party”, except that in 1773 there was an actual specific law that was irrefutable except by rebellion.
Again to refer to the Aaron Russo video above the present law in America (if it actually exists at all) has none of those properties.
Question…
Many people are saying that Kent Hovind should have done what Jesus would do.
“Give to Cesar what is Cesar’s”.
Why do the American people therefore highly respect their Patriarchs who obviously didn’t submit to “Cesar” during the “Boston Tea Party” when there was then, an irrefutable law.
Yet, right now Dr. Kent Hovind is being mocked by people who say that he is wrong for not submitting to “Cesar” today, when today the Law is far from clear.
I would facetiously say that Americans who disagree with Kent Hovind’s position might want to write a letter of apology to the British Queen, renouncing the rebellion of their forefathers in 1773 and once more offering their Taxes to the Crown.
100% of American Income tax goes to paying the interest on the American national Debt.
Paying Tax to the British crown is better at least you get to have a Queen to look at.
I really do hope you could lend your support to Kent Hovind he is still in ministry even while in prison see http://www.cseblogs.com
Again I don’t mean to be (but I understand that this is very) presumptuous but considering his position, Now would be a good time to make a decision to help.
Help will cost you nothing financially just a little time to add your name to the petition upon his court case & an encouragement others to do likewise, read his blog, http://www.cseblogs.com/.
Please lend some help to your Brother in the Ministry.
Yours
From some one who is blessed by both your ministries Kent Hovind’s & ***********
Jason xXx
PS Again nobody ever asked me to even take an interest in this, I personally chose to take the time to write because I love the people of God and don’t want to see them suffer needlessly.
iago9067
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 8:29pm:Im glad to see kent is doing well as can be, we are praying for him and jo but i have 1 question concerning the charges according to title 26 6331a (a) Authority of Secretary
If any person liable to pay any tax neglects or refuses to pay the same within 10 days after notice and demand, it shall be lawful for the Secretary to collect such tax (and such further sum as shall be sufficient to cover the expenses of the levy) by levy upon all property and rights to property (except such property as is exempt under section 6334) belonging to such person or on which there is a lien provided in this chapter for the payment of such tax. Levy may be made upon the accrued salary or wages of any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia, by serving a notice of levy on the employer (as defined in section 3401(d)) of such officer, employee, or elected official. If the Secretary makes a finding that the collection of such tax is in jeopardy, notice and demand for immediate payment of such tax may be made by the Secretary and, upon failure or refusal to pay such tax, collection thereof by levy shall be lawful without regard to the 10-day period provided in this section.
So my question is Kent , Jo , or any of the staff a officer employee or elected official of the U.S. or District of columbia if there not then whats the problem ? They only broke the law if they are one of these people! read it again and you tell me. cause when ever I got a notice this is what they claimed they were charging me with .
I had a I.R.S agent come right to my door and i asked her am I one of those people in Title 26 6331a ? And she asked me what are you doing reading that?I said thats what tou are charging me with so im gonna read it. Its been over a year or two and I havnt heard back . so you tell me
your truly a concerned u.S soverein
evilution
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 8:40pm:I must thank our dear brother Hovind for keeping the Lord’s work going through his hardships. We do continue to keep the Hovinds in our heartfelt prayers. The opposition from the Lord’s enemies is becoming increasingly apparent as days go by. Satan’s time must be short…he’s resorting to force,I guess his lies don’t hold up too well in the light of the truth, but since there are those who love darkness better than light, he does have a sort of an army,anyway… shields of fantasy, swords of deceit and helmets of ignorance… No torches, don’t want them to see the truth… But as we continue to “stand therefore” there is no doubt who will win in the end. Thanks for the updates…yours in Christ
JustinH
Said this on December 2nd, 2006 at 10:10pm:Praise God for how He is fulfilling Rom 8:28 in this situation. My friends and I will continue to pray for you, your family, and your ministry, as well as your new friends. We will also be writing some letters to you and your friends and the courts. Praise God for what He has, and is, and will do through you!
praybird
Said this on December 3rd, 2006 at 1:47am:Thank you Lord for Bro. Kent Hovind and family, to read this letter from Bro. Hovind has blessed us more than words can express, the ministry to these men, is so awesome, so many reaching out to the Lord, He truly is letting his light shine in the jail. I feel so priviledged to have read this, I will be sending my email, and will keep in touch and will commit to support in prayer and letters to help in all we can during this time. This has greatly encouraged us, to want to grow in Christ daily, and to open our heart to the Lord in a deeper way. Thank you for posting his letter, this means so much to us. Love in Christ from Brenda, Don Flickinger and family. Father God bless Dr. Hovind and family in a great way, make a way for him to be released soon. Touch his family and strengthen and encourage them, wrap your arms of Love around them, give them peace, and safety, restore Dr. Hovind to them. We ask you in the mighty name of Jesus amen.
prewrathx
Said this on December 3rd, 2006 at 5:56pm:Dear Brother Hovind
I am truly sorry for the difficult times you and your family are going through. I’m sure it must be a true testament to your faith in Jesus and the many riches that await you and all of us. I can’t say I can relate to what you are going through but as Christians, all of our times of persecution will surely come as well. It’s only a matter of time. I will contiue to pray for you and your family believing in your innocence til’ the end. Thank you for your ministry and hold on to your faith. It’s only a matter of time before our wonderful Jesus returns for us.
In Jesus name
Tyler
Grace Freely
Said this on December 3rd, 2006 at 6:31pm:Hello Kent. You are an inspiration to me. I’ve got a picture of you and I shaking hands. It’s been on my refrigerator for about 3 years. You have been on my prayer list for some time now and your dvd’s are on heavy rotation at my house. They have replaced sitcoms,sports,and even the nightly “news”. I really appreciate the fact that they aren’t copyrighted. They have been a major blessing to me.
Because of your ministry I have searched out the truth on many issues other than evolution. Thank you for mentioning things other ministries wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole. America is in trouble and many, {I would say most} Christians don’t have a clue. Your plain, pull no punches words have awakened me to that fact. I think many Christians have the why fight were on the next flight mentality. It’s sad.
William Moore from Wayne State University called you the “Hulk Hogan” of creationists. I would disagree. I think the “Buford Pusser” of creationists would be more accurate.
Keep walking tall for truth. I appreciate you very much and am praying for you in your time of tribulation. God will be glorified through this situation! God Bless You.
VanDominic
Said this on December 3rd, 2006 at 7:02pm:I’ve sent a very long comment last Saturday but was not yet posted.
Living Dinoman
Said this on December 3rd, 2006 at 7:21pm:Keep up the good work. We are praying for you!
Phillip O’Donnell at
http://www.LivingDinos.com
Drew
Said this on December 3rd, 2006 at 9:05pm:Dear Dr. Hovind and Family,
My family and I would like to thank you for your amazing ministry and all the wisdom that we have gained from it. I have been listening to the seminars for years now, and my three small boys watched the Dinosaur Children’s Video for the first time today and laughed like crazy at Dr. Hovind’s jokes. We are continually praying for CSE and Dr. Hovind, and though this is my first time contacting the ministry it has been a blessing to me for years and will be for many more.
Drew (MN)
tnnelsons
Said this on December 3rd, 2006 at 11:30pm:Bro. Hovind,
You, your family and your little congregation will certainly be in my family’s prayers. God bless you for the work you have done and continue to do. Your faith is to be admired and commended. We will continue to remember you and the work you have started. We pray that the courts will be moved just as pharoh was for Moses. Untill then, let us all remember the work that was started and continue the fight for the Lord.
Dan
Cookeville TN
taco
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 7:36am:Dr. Dino (I love that name),
Hope all is well. Not sure if you are getting these posts. I can only hope that your staff prints them off for you to read while you in there. I dont want to spend this time trying to defend or question your teachings. The tax issue is touchy and the press is trying to make you out to be a money hungry pastor who was withdrawing over $400,000 right up to your confinement time. I dont have good answers for my friends questions concerning this so I have decided to leave that up to the Lord. What I can say is my hope is that you are freed and area able to continue your work. The bible is sooo complex and has sooo many angles that every question answered reveals 3 new ones that need to be asked. I have rattled my brain trying to figure out what it all means and have come to realize that nobody and I mean nobody on this earth has all the answers. I pray that our loving God with pour a blessing on you during this time. Only God can judge you and your heart condition and no man has a right to pass judgement on you. I for one will continue stand by you and your mission and your family! PREACH ON DR DINO, DO YOUR THING!
Paul Cornelius
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 8:17am:Dear Dr. Hovind,
My family and I are praying that your time in bonds will be for only a short time. I have been going over some possible solutions for your released based upon the constitution. I am sure that your lawyers are already aware of these ideas, but I will phone your ministry to discuss these possibilities. I know God has a purpose at least for right now for you to minister to these inmates, but there is also a vast amount of people that need your ministry out here. May God bless!
Looking Up!(Luke 21:28),
Paul Cornelius
Matthew
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 9:31am:I would advise you to present your converts at your sentencing hearing to prove that are doing good. If you do not, you will once again be considered as a liar and you will not be let out of jail. I would also advise you to admit your sins or you will continue to fall into the pit.
You lie about evolution, you lie about the government, so why should someone believe that you converted inmates? You are like the boy who cried.
evilution
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 10:10am:God bless you again, brother… just watched another one of your bebates, I really do believe the Lord is using you as one of the great defenders of the faith. I have not heard of you until recently but discovered a gold mine in scientific and spiritual info through your ministry. Many points of my beliefs were confirmed as well as many questions answered. Without ever learning of this unique ministry I would have been unable to scientifically confirm my already present beliefs. The type of information you put out, in many cases, free of charge, is a direct witnness to your selfless character. I do not believe you are guilty of any crime except living a good Christian life. I do seek to uphold you in the spirit in the Lord’s will, and also remember your bonds before Him daily. I do not think this type of action (by the gov’t) represents anything other than the soon fulfillment of the remianing prophesies in holy scripture. Those who endure till the end shall be saved. This is the hope of the saints. Thank you again for not withholding the Lord’s truth from this darkened world at your own risk. Yours in Christ.
evilution
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 10:19am:Matthew, I percieve you are a poor lost soul spewing out the very filth filling your darkened mind. You are as one of the many false witnesses present at my Lord’s trial. Fill up your cup, you will have plenty of time to drink. Blessed are the falsley accused.
chaplaindoug
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 10:39am:Dear JesusIsLord:
In my experience in Florida county jails (brother Hovind is in the Escambia County Detention Center) inmates do not have email addresses and do not have direct access to the internet. Their means of communication include telephone (they must call out collect) and US Mail. God bless.
Matthew
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 12:07pm:Evilution,
It is you who is the lost soul. For anyone who says I will not enter heaven, will not heaven.
Are you a Christian or a Hovindian?
Matthew
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 12:33pm:For anyone wants to know where life came from, I suggest the report of meteorite that crashed in northwest Canada almost seven years ago.
Me
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 1:39pm:Matthew,
I read the article concerning the meteorite. I recommend that you read it again. It contains words like:
Could have been
Thought to be
Perhaps
We don’t know
Speculated.
There is zero percent scientific proof that this meteorite means anything, and 100 percent speculation.
Every article on evolution that I have read contains the same type of wording where there are zero scientific facts!
Matthew
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 8:29pm:“Me”
Can you prove that what they are saying 100 per cent incorrect? Isn’t everything that has been written on creationism have zero facts?
Just because you have not seen evolution, does not mean evolution is wrong. Evolution is science, creationism is religion.
Could not God created life through this meteorite and through evolution?
taco
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 9:47pm:Matthew is not the vocus,
All, I encourage all of you not to fall prey to debating points with someone who is not ready for true conversation or conversion.
Matthew,
When you are ready to ask questions that you want honest answers to let me know I would be glad to assist. Please dont use this board to attack someone who has never attacked you. It shows a lot of anger that comes from holding on to things that should be released. Kent Hovind will answer for his actions (good and bad). So will you; lets not add to the bad by judging someone that you truly know nothing about but only what the MEDIA is feeding you. Keep in mind rhat the MEDIA has claimed that little green men roam the earth with laser guns!
Hope this helps, it wasnt meant to hurt,
Taco
ChristAffects
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 11:21pm:Dr. Kent Hovind,
I am praying daily that the will of the Lord will be done. You are an amazing example of what a man with the love of Jesus in his heart can do. I pray that you will find mercy in your trial. We both know that God has an amazing plan in the midst of this!
God Bless,
Adam Carter
jproverbs3_5
Said this on December 4th, 2006 at 11:35pm:Dear Kent,
I was shocked to read what happened with you. It’s been a while since I last checked the Dr. Dino website and figured I would check what is going on with your ministry. I have to say that your video series really got me into the topic of Creation vs. Evolution and as a newspaper reporter I was even able to publish a full page article on the topic.
Anyway, I am disappointed about what has happened and I am sure that you are repentant. The first thing that came to my mind when I read 58 counts of tax fraud was Luke 20:25 where Jesus said, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” With that said, what’s done is done and we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions. We are all sinners, make mistakes and fall short of the glory of God. That’s why the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose again.
I think that is wonderful that you are teaching and able to minister to people in the slammer. I’ve been there for a night, so I know slightly how you feel. However, God can and will turn it out for good. As an intelligent teacher once said, all of the ingredients of biscuits separately are disgusting – when they are all mixed together they work together for biscuits. haha of course that teacher I am referring to is you. Anyway, Kent, I will be praying for you…and once you are released just pay your taxes and give to Caesar what is Caesar’s!
Love in Christ Jesus,
James Montalto
Colette
Said this on December 5th, 2006 at 2:36am:Dear Hovind family and all at CSE. I’m writing from South Africa to let you know
that there are hundreds of South Africans who are thinking of and praying for you daily!
I am perplexed at the injustice done to Kent and just putting him into jail to silence him!
Well, they’ll have to put us all in jail.We won’t stop making copies of and speading the creation & gospel
message. It is so good to hear from him and isn’t it beautiful how Jesus is using the situation to give those prisoners with him a 2nd chance to life?
Jo Hovind, may JESUS bless you and give you strength. Even though we are a big ocean apart
we have the same Heavenly Father to run to.
Regards Colette Roos
FuManchu
Said this on December 5th, 2006 at 5:28am:Me: It may well be possible that every article on evolution you have ever read contains speculative, unsure language and zero scientific facts. On the other hand, every article on creationism I have ever read contained definite, firm language – and zero scientific facts. At least scientists have the decency to sound unsure when they don’t actually have firm evidence for something.
Maturekid
Said this on December 5th, 2006 at 2:39pm:FuManchu, Matthew
Most have read both sides. There are many points and counterpoints. If this were left to a Scientific debate, there wouldn’t be as much uproar. Strictly speaking, it would be of worthy study in a Science Philosophy class in college. But this topic (Evolution) is being taught as fact to the children when in fact all Origins of Life are hypotheses under the terms set by the scientific method. By definition, hypotheses are speculative until substantiated by empirical proof. The belief in a Creator God is supernatural and impossible to be subjected to empirical study. But after that starting point, many of the Creationism hypotheses minimally adhere to the Laws of Science. The Evolution Hypothesis is lacking in that area. Creationism requires a firm belief in God the Creator and Genesis hence the logical usage of firm language.
So as Taco commented, please keep this to the topic at hand. Enough with the attacking.
There is also much in the past 100 years of Americans not paying attention to their government that needs to be corrected. Mr. Horvind and his wife have their stances. Research the entire topic from all vantage points. In these tax and other financial based charges, there are plenty of concerns regarding the legitimacy of the legal structure used to enforce these charges. Far too many are quick to say “Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s” without throughly researching one key question. Was it Caesar’s to take?
Matthew
Said this on December 5th, 2006 at 5:59pm:taco: Keep in mind that the MEDIA has claimed that little green men roam the earth with laser guns!
That is from science fiction books. television & movies, not from the news media. Also, Hovind believes in the existence of the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot.
I am sure that you are all sincere your concerns in Hovind’s wellbeing, but you should ask yourselves should I be following what Hovind says. Take a look at people like Benny Hinn, Peter Popoff, Jimmy Bakker, Ted Haggard, etc. Do you follow them or do you follow Jesus?
The truth hurts.
iago9067
Said this on December 5th, 2006 at 8:28pm:JPROVERBS CEASER IS DEAD READ 6331 a of title 26 and those people can pay the dead ceaser
You should be writing about the tax fraud are government placed on us.
please go back a few blogs an read 6331a of title 26 and tell me if kent hovind is any of these people listed
1 more thing luke 20 23 but he perceived their craftiness , and said unto them , why tempt ye me ?
So please read the whole thing , and dont take it out of context .
God bless you and I hope you learn a little more about what title 26 realy is.
pienkzuit
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 7:58am:MatureKid, I don’t seem to have the part where Jesus says “Was it Ceasar’s to take?” in my Bible. Can you please tell me what version of the Bible you have, and where I can find that scripture, so I can return mine for a refund and get one of yours? It sure seems like a much better version if it let’s me decide what’s right and wrong.
JohnLake
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 11:11am:iago9067
The title and paragraph you refer to is part of the tax code that gives the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to/direction for levying or seizing property in order to secure payment of unpaid taxes. It does not provide a list of persons subject to the Federal Income Tax. I’m not a tax attorney, but I would be very careful if you plan to use this statute to contend that you are not liable to pay the Federal Income Tax.
——
“TITLE 26 > Subtitle F > CHAPTER 64 > Subchapter D > PART II – LEVY
§ 6331. Levy and distraint
(a) Authority of Secretary
If any person liable to pay any tax neglects or refuses to pay the same within 10 days after notice and demand, it shall be lawful for the Secretary to collect such tax (and such further sum as shall be sufficient to cover the expenses of the levy) by levy upon all property and rights to property (except such property as is exempt under section 6334) belonging to such person or on which there is a lien provided in this chapter for the payment of such tax.”
——
JohnLake:
The first sentence basically says that if “ANY PERSON” does not make the tax payment after a 10 day notice and demand, the Secretary has the authority to use (levy, sell) the personal property of that individual to secure the payment. Since Kent Hovind and his employees fall in to this “ANY PERSON” group, they would be subject to the actions of the Secretary had they not made payment as ordered.
——
“Levy may be made upon the accrued salary or wages of any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia, by serving a notice of levy on the employer (as defined in section 3401(d)) of such officer, employee, or elected official.”
——
JohnLake:
The second sentence instructs the Secretary, that if the person not making payments is “any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia” then the wages of these individual will be subject to the levy. Meaning their salaries would be garnished to collect the unpaid taxes. Hovind and his employees are not in this group; however, the instructions in the first sentence would still apply.
——
“If the Secretary makes a finding that the collection of such tax is in jeopardy, notice and demand for immediate payment of such tax may be made by the Secretary and, upon failure or refusal to pay such tax, collection thereof by levy shall be lawful without regard to the 10-day period provided in this section.”
——
JohnLake:
The third sentence gives the Secretary the authority to waive the 10 day waiting period for applying levies if the property appears to be in jeopardy (i.e. transferring titles or sale of property to avoid the levy.)
Also note that these courses of action would take place after other procedures such as hearings and appeals would have determined the tax liability. For more information see;
TITLE 26 > Subtitle F > CHAPTER 64 > Subchapter C Subchapter C — Lien for Taxes
§ 6320. Notice and opportunity for hearing upon filing of notice of lien
§ 6326. Administrative appeal of liens
http://128.253.22.246/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sup_01_26_10_F_20_64_30_C.html
You might want to follow your own advice; “read the whole thing, and not take things out of context.”
JohnLake
iago9067
Said this at 8:28pm 12/05/06
JPROVERBS CEASER IS DEAD READ 6331 a of title 26 and those people can pay the dead ceaser
You should be writing about the tax fraud are government placed on us.
please go back a few blogs an read 6331a of title 26 and tell me if kent hovind is any of these people listed
1 more thing luke 20 23 but he perceived their craftiness , and said unto them , why tempt ye me ?
So please read the whole thing , and dont take it out of context .
God bless you and I hope you learn a little more about what title 26 realy is.
Maturekid
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 1:32pm:pienkzuit
I’ll keep this brief. I’ll restate the primary request – Enough with the attacking.
There are legitimate questions on whether the Federal Income Tax is in compliance with the US Constitution or not. If the Federal Income Tax laws are not in compliance, then that would create major legal ramifications for many people. Read up and research the information provided on the many links provided in the other threads on this topic. Enough with the attacking, it serves no usefulness.
Samphire
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 1:46pm:cstministries
Said this at 7:43pm:
In my opinion, the first seal of Revelation was open around 9/11 so there’s verly little time left.
Samphire: Why 9/11? Why not the Black Death in Europe when one third of the population is thought may have perished. Or perhaps the Irish potato famine which killed a million people, or the First World War in which many millions perished, or the Second World War when 20 million Europeans died, or the atom bomb attacks on Japan when tens of thousands died in a millisecond. Could it be because 9/11 happened in the USA and was televised as it happened? Perhaps, with the first two events, nobody heard a big bang but certainly, both events caused a loud rumble down through history “as it were the noise of thunder” Rev 6.1. There is another world outside of the States, you know.
iago9067
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 1:55pm:Jonny lake you left out the word liable, and you left out the list of who they have authority to levy . are they liable and are they in this list ?????
here it is again this time dont leave nothing out!!!!!!!!(a) Authority of Secretary
If any person liable to pay any tax neglects or refuses to pay the same within 10 days after notice and demand, it shall be lawful for the Secretary to collect such tax (and such further sum as shall be sufficient to cover the expenses of the levy) by levy upon all property and rights to property (except such property as is exempt under section 6334) belonging to such person or on which there is a lien provided in this chapter for the payment of such tax. Levy may be made upon the accrued salary or wages of any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia, by serving a notice of levy on the employer (as defined in section 3401(d)) of such officer, employee, or elected official. If the Secretary makes a finding that the collection of such tax is in jeopardy, notice and demand for immediate payment of such tax may be made by the Secretary and, upon failure or refusal to pay such tax, collection thereof by levy shall be lawful without regard to the 10-day period provided in this section.
Samphire
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 1:55pm:Colette
Said this at 2:36am:
Dear Hovind family and all at CSE. I’m writing from South Africa to let you know that there are hundreds of South Africans who are thinking of and praying for you daily!
Samphire: Scientific studies on prayer seem to indicate that you may be wasting your time.
I am perplexed at the injustice done to Kent and just putting him into jail to silence him!
Samphire: Incorrect – effectively, it was for the theft of social security payments belonging to his staff. Have you not noticed that Mr.H. continues to write from jail?
Well, they’ll have to put us all in jail. We won’t stop making copies of and speading the creation & gospel message. It is so good to hear from him
Samphire: Ah – you have noticed. So he wasn’t put in jail to silence him, was he? Bt the way, the President of the USA claims to be a born-again Christian. So who exactly in the US (a democratic country in which 75% of the electorate is Christian) is trying to silence Christians?
and isn’t it beautiful how Jesus is using the situation to give those prisoners with him a 2nd chance to life?
Samphire: Yes and no. What would have been really beautiful of Jesus is if he had miraculously prevented them from going to jail in the first place.
Jo Hovind, may JESUS bless you and give you strength. Even though we are a big ocean apart we have the same Heavenly Father to run to.
Samphire: Wouldn’t it have been better not to have done the crime in the first place?
chaplaindoug
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 2:31pm:Why is it that those who have the least to say are always the most vociferous and strident in saying it, and those who have the most to learn are the least willing to listen?
Those who know . . . know.
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. (Matthew 7:6)
JohnLake
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 6:07pm:iago9067
Said this at 1:55pm:
“Jonny lake you left out the word liable, and you left out the list of who they have authority to levy . are they liable and are they in this list ?????”
JohnLake: I’m not sure what you are talking about “left out the word liable” & “left out the list….” so my comments are below with a cut and paste of your post.
PLEASE NOTE that the statute you are referring to is part of the Tax Code that deals with collecting payments from individuals the have already been judged/ruled liable and are delinquent/negligent in paying the those taxes. § 6331(a) does not determine “WHO” is liable to pay taxes, but HOW taxes/restitution is collected if the tax obligations remain unpaid.
As for “list of who they have authority to levy”; 1st, there is no “list”, it clearly states “If ANY person liable to pay any tax neglects or refuses to pay …” 2nd, if you are referring to “any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States…” Please READ my comment #2 below. 3rd, a levy is against property, not the individual. Selling people was made illegal by the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
iago9067
Said this at 1:55pm:
“here it is again this time dont leave nothing out!!!!!!!!
(a) Authority of Secretary
If any person liable to pay any tax neglects or refuses to pay the same within 10 days after notice and demand, it shall be lawful for the Secretary to collect such tax (and such further sum as shall be sufficient to cover the expenses of the levy) by levy upon all property and rights to property (except such property as is exempt under section 6334) belonging to such person or on which there is a lien provided in this chapter for the payment of such tax. ”
JohnLake:
1. The first sentence says that if “ANY PERSON” does not make the tax payment after a 10 day notice and demand, the Secretary has the authority to use (levy, sell) the personal property of that individual to secure the payment.
Since Kent Hovind and his employees fall in to this “ANY PERSON” group, they WOULD BE subject (“liable’) to the actions of the Secretary had they not made payment as ordered. To date, neither Hovind nor his employees have been ordered to pay any delinquent taxes. This was the case in the 1996 Hovind tax case. Hovind paid the back taxes as ordered, the payment was made before any levys were applied.
iago9067
Said this at 1:55pm:
“Levy may be made upon the accrued salary or wages of any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia, by serving a notice of levy on the employer (as defined in section 3401(d)) of such officer, employee, or elected official.”
JohnLake:
2. The second sentence instructs the Secretary, that if the person not making payments is “any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia” then the wages of these individual will be subject to the levy. Meaning their salaries would be garnished to collect the unpaid taxes.
Once again, this is NOT a determination of WHO is liable but HOW the delinquent/neglected taxes are to be collected. Federal employees, elected officials, etc. with delinquent/neglected taxes, will be subject to having thier wages/salaries withheld as opposed to levying their personal property to met their tax obligations.
iago9067
Said this at 1:55pm:
“If the Secretary makes a finding that the collection of such tax is in jeopardy, notice and demand for immediate payment of such tax may be made by the Secretary and, upon failure or refusal to pay such tax, collection thereof by levy shall be lawful without regard to the 10-day period provided in this section. ”
JohnLake:
3. The third sentence gives the Secretary the authority to waive the 10 day waiting period for applying levies if the property appears to be in jeopardy (i.e. transferring titles or sale of property to avoid the levy.)
Summary for § 6331(a); Not WHO but HOW
BTW While § 6331 has yet to be applied in the current case, the US Attorney is utilizing TITLE 31 > SUBTITLE IV > CHAPTER 53 > SUBCHAPTER II > § 5317 – SEARCH AND FORFEITURE OF MONETARY INSTRUMENTS to file liens against and levy the properties owned by Hovind/CSE/etc. in order to collect the judgment of $430,400.00 for the “structuring” convictions.
Regards,
JohnLake
jproverbs3_5
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 6:24pm:iago9067 you have to read the Bible my friend. First of all we are to abstain from all appearance of evil (1 Thessalonians 5:22) and anyone would be remiss if they were to say that Dr. Hovind was abstaining from evil by not paying his taxes. While I love the Creation ministry that he has and that he has fought for, Dr. Hovind has brought shame to the name of Jesus Christ. Is he being a good witness to those who don’t know Jesus as Lord by not paying taxes? I think not.
Further, Jesus paid taxes and so did Paul. Want verses? Matthew 17:24-17, Matthew 22:15-22, Mark 12:13-17 and Luke 20:20-26. And for Paul read Romans 13 where it says the governing authorities are established by God. Romans 13:1
Romans 13:2 states, “Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.” And yes, it appears that Dr. Hovind has brought judgment on himself as he is paying for his crime in prison. Finish it up by reading Romans 13:5-7, heck read all of Romans 13 and YOU don’t take it out of context. Read the Bible and obey it for it is the living word of the One True God. We can’t pick and choose what we want to believe. Kent Hovind is big about reading it and believing it for what it says, ie, Genesis 6:4, “There were giants in the earth in those days…”
Kent Hovind in one of his dvds said, “There were giants in the earth in those days, because there were giants in the earth,” or something to that effect. The Bible says to pay our taxes, then we should pay our taxes. Period!
“Caesar is dead.” — Are you kidding me with that statement? Caesar represents the governing authorities of that time and for all the times after that. Please, stop defending him on this one, Dr. Hovind was wrong. And for anyone to compare what he is going through to what Jesus, Paul and any of the early followers went through is ludicrous. They were innocent and were only guilty of preaching the Good News of Jesus Christ. Dr. Hovind is guilty of 58 counts of tax fraud. Big difference. I will be praying for Dr. Hovind and his family for sure, but that doesn’t change the fact that he broke the law and is now paying for it. I hope your eyes are/will be opened to the truth of what is really happening.
Samphire
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 7:20pm:chaplaindoug
Said this at 2:31pm:
Why is it that those who have the least to say are always the most vociferous and strident in saying it, and those who have the most to learn are the least willing to listen.
Samphire: If you refer to me, I have been asking and listening for more years than most and have heard only vapid meanderings.
Those who know . . . know.
Samphire: But little, other than superstitious nonsense. That was exactly the same empty answer I got when I was 16. Reading these sycophantic posts I marvel at the ability of humans to fool themselves. How can anybody learn anything when they already “know”?
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Samphire: I’ve asked questions of those who have made questionable or contradictory statements and that is all. But there seem to be no replies forthcoming other than empty comments such as that above from chaplaindoug who seems able only to insult those who disagree with his point of view. To call a fellow human being supposedly created in the image of God a dog or swine is only a short step to burning him at the stake. How sad to hear a christian write such filth.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matthew 7:21-23)
trust
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 9:53pm:Samphire
I think you have a problem, why do you have to be so horrible to someone you don’t even know. When I see people being so mean I wish Christ would return, but I have to be sorry because I don’t think you will be going. I pray that you will have a change of heart.
I pray that you will come to know Jesus
Millerfamily6
Said this on December 6th, 2006 at 10:07pm:JUST A THOUGHT: I BELIEVE THE EVOLUTIONISTS ON HERE NEED TO ADMIT TO THE FACT THAT EVOLUTION IS A RELIGION, BECAUSE IT TAKES FAITH (WHICH IS THE SUBSTANCE OF THINGS HOPED FOR AND THE EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN). EVOULUTION IS HOPED FOR AND NOONE HAS EVER SEEN IT!!! YOUR god IS satan, BECAUSE HE MASQUERADES HIMSELF AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, AND SEEKS ONLY TO LIE AND DECEIVE YOU SO THAT HE MAY LEAD YOU TO JOIN HIM IN THE PIT OF HELL. PLEASE, PLEASE, REPENT AND TURN TO THE SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST THE LORD, FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS AND YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE, AMEN!
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and THEIR FOOLISH HEART WAS DARKENED.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
May God have mercy on your souls and shine His glorious light therein!
noblesjt
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 1:33am:Hello Dr. Hovind.
It is really great to hear that you are holding up well. I am another individual that you have never met, but have radically changed my life. I first heard about you from Ray Comfort’s website. I downloaded your first video and was rocked. I have since purchased your entire library. I am a contractor working overseas in the Middle East. I brought many of your resources over here and have reached many, many people. People more often try to attack you, instead of the message you deliver. I find it an absolute delight to defend you. I now have a clear understanding of what the Bible meant when it said that “they willingly are ignorant”. Recently on November 3rd, your situation was addressed on Sirius satellite radio. The program was the Way of The Master Radio. Todd Friel told everyone about your dedication to the Lord and to your ministry.
I respect you so much for standing up for what you believe in. You are an inspiration to me and my family. I hope to one day me you face-to-face. You are in all of our prayers. Praise the Lord for being persecuted for His name!
God Bless,
Joshua Nobles
McGurk
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 8:08am:I suppose that Kent Hovind will spend the rest of his life in jail.
I can’t imagine him repenting of his wrong-doing, or admitting that his understanding of the law is flawed.
When he gets out of jail, I am sure he will persist in handling his money as he has in the past, and will certainly be arrested, tried, and jailed again!
darling
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 8:21am:Maturekid Said this at 1:32pm:
“There are legitimate questions on whether the Federal Income Tax is in compliance with the US Constitution or not.”
No, no there aren’t.
No court has held or will hold that the Internal Revenue Code is invalid or that the Internal Revenue Service lacks power to levy or collect income taxes.
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
Charity
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 11:02am:Standing by you Kent.
It has been so heartbreaking to see so many “christians” on the net who have fallen away from the truth of Biblical Creation. They fell for this attack of the devil hook-line & sinker and now they try to justify their lack of support with secular mantra. How easy it is these days for old satan to persuade these so called “bible believers” into attacking men of God who try to stand for Truth. I want you to know me and my house support you and pray for you always.
These troubled times gives us a look into the future of what we as Christians will have to endure if we stand for truth and justice. Come quickly oh Lord! I think I have a better understanding of what scripture says about the elect being fooled and the falling away now.
I think it is a rare thing these days that a man will stand for his convictions no matter what the price. You brother Kent are one of those men and you have no idea how much we love and respect you for it. Reading how God is using you to minister in prison gives me chill bumps just knowing and reading and understanding better God’s plans. You have taken a very bad situation and used it for the Glorification of God and THAT my dear brother is what it’s all about.
GOD BLESS YOU!!!!!
LOVE IN CHRIST
CHARITY
Samphire
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 11:05am:Millerfamily6
Said this at 10:07pm:
JUST A THOUGHT: I BELIEVE THE EVOLUTIONISTS ON HERE NEED TO ADMIT TO THE FACT THAT EVOLUTION IS A RELIGION, BECAUSE IT TAKES FAITH (WHICH IS THE SUBSTANCE OF THINGS HOPED FOR AND THE EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN). EVOULUTION IS HOPED FOR AND NOONE HAS EVER SEEN IT!!! YOUR god IS satan, BECAUSE HE MASQUERADES HIMSELF AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, AND SEEKS ONLY TO LIE AND DECEIVE YOU SO THAT HE MAY LEAD YOU TO JOIN HIM IN THE PIT OF HELL. PLEASE, PLEASE, REPENT AND TURN TO THE SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST THE LORD, FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS AND YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE, AMEN!
Samphire: No need to shout. Evolution is neither my faith nor my religion. The physical evidence seems best represented by the theory and nothing more. If future evidence falsifies the theory then I’ll be happy to go where that evidence leads. Contrary to your statement, evolution has been and is being observed. Please try to extend your knowledge by reading authoritive books by people who have actually spent many years studying the subject rather than merely parroting standard meaningless creationist phrases. My God is not Satan nor any of the other hundreds of thousands of gods people have relied upon down the ages. I do not believe that Satan exists anymore than I believe Thor, Poseidon or Quetzalcoatl exist. If I did I would have a great problem understanding where he lives what with your God being omnipresent. I have just been watching a video at http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/holy-laughter-p1.php. Have a look and tell me if you find it as disgusting as I do.
ravenwolf
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 1:42pm:http://www.worldslastchance.com/
(Joh 8:32 KJV+) ..And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free..
julia
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 2:08pm:Hi samfire, err, samphire!
You heard of Pascal? He’s just one among thousands of intellectuals (Kepler, Newton, Boyle, Pascal, Faraday, Pasteur, Maxwell, Kelvin and scores of others of like calibre) who believed the Bible to be the Word of God and who believed in God. Think for a moment and learn to use your God-given brain:
1) I can choose to be a Christian and obey all of God’s commandments and then die. If heaven and hell were true, then I get to enter heaven.
2) I can choose to be a Christian and obey all of God’s commandments and then die. If heaven and hell were false, I LOSE NOTHING.
3) I can choose NOT to be a Christian and DISobey all of God’s commandments and then die. If heaven and hell were false, then I’ll surely have a hellish existence on earth–full of hatred, especially towards those who choose to be Christians.
4) But If I choose NOT to be a Christian and DISobey all of God’s commandments and then die, and heaven and hell happened to be true, I LOSE MY SOUL AND MY ONE AND ONLY CHANCE TO HAVE ETERNAL LIFE IN HEAVEN.
samphire, don’t you dislike hell? Flaming, scorching hot… hell … THINK … hell is the exact opposite of paradise that you picture in your mind.
julia
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 2:20pm:Hi again samphire! Maybe, you’ve mistaken certain groups to be Christian groups. Do you know how many religious denominations are registered now? You won’t be misled by a so-called religious group if you’re armed with the Words of the Holy Bible. Are you aware that there should be ONLY ONE religion? ONLY ONE faith? Try reading the Scriptures… You won’t regret it….
Millerfamily6
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 3:20pm:Samphire:
I’m sorry; I didn’t intend to shout, and truly, I wasn’t as I was typing that out. I took a look at the link you posted, and yes, I find that just as disgusting as you do. The Bible speaks of apostasy in the last days, and men who twist the word of God for their gain. The Lord Jesus also tells us in His word, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron…
Sir, I do not need to go to “authoritative” sources to find out about evolution, as I have the ONLY authority that I need, which is the word of God to guide me and direct my heart into ALL truth. I was a public school child indoctrinated with evolution (praise the Lord it never registered with me) but sought to find out what the Bible says once I became a young woman, and so many questions were answered just with the first read through the Holy Word of God. You see, Mr. Samphire you must become as a child at heart in order to believe. Thus saith the Lord of all Creation, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” By the way, those authorities are questionable, since my God tells me that I should “avoid profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.”
And, yes, I and all who’ve walked this earth, once served the god of this world (whom the Bible calls satan) too, even though I didn’t realize it. We’re either serving God or satan, and it appears that these scriptures pertain to you, Mr. Samphire: “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost; In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
Evolution has never been observed…a child can know that. It takes faith to believe in Evolution. Faith is defined as: 1) Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; 2)The assent of the mind to the truth of a proposition advanced by another; belief on probable evidence of any kind; therefore, evolution is the object of belief and a system of doctrine (teachings) believed, based on the authority and veracity of another.
Sir, you said, “I would have a great problem understanding where he lives what with your God being omnipresent.” Why? If you’ve ever read the Bible, Mr. Samphire, you can clearly understand where satan’s domain is. He is the prince and power of the air, and has permission (for the time being) of His Creator to roam up and down this earth. His final abode will be the pit of Hell!
Oh, sir, I do pray that your heart is still reachable, for the Lord wishes that none should perish, and I seek to have the same mind as my Lord. If atheists/evolutionists are right, we all have nothing to gain or lose; but, if Christians (and not all are spiritually minded, mind you, some are carnal) are right, then all non-believers have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Please seek the Lord while there is still time, Sir. I wish you good and no harm.
Sincerely,
Millerfamily6
Jason
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 3:28pm:darling
Said this at 8:21am:
Maturekid Said this at 1:32pm:
“There are legitimate questions on whether the Federal Income Tax is in compliance with the US Constitution or not.”
No, no there aren’t.
No court has held or will hold that the Internal Revenue Code is invalid or that the Internal Revenue Service lacks power to levy or collect income taxes.
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
_____________________________________________________________________
Hi darling,
I read your confident post (above) and thought you might be interested in some money…
Here is a possible source for you ($50,000).
If you don’t want it, you might want to pass the link below on to Daniel B Evans who complied the site you referred to above ( http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html ).
Claim the money, and once you have it you can confidently tell all the Tax protesters to shut up.
I’ve pulled out the relevant part of the page for you to claim this money…
WILLIAM T. CONKLIN, M.A.
COMMUNICATION AND LANGUAGE EXPERT
3296 Raleigh
Denver, Colorado 80212
(303) 455-0837
FAX 480-1799
Willieco@aol.com
http://www.anti-irs.com/opinpar.html
I have discovered very interesting issues about the Income Tax and for five years I have offered a reward of $50,000 to anyone who can show me the following:
1. What statute makes me liable to pay an income tax.
2. How I can file a tax return without waiving my Fifth Amendment Rights.
To date, no one has taken me up on the offer. Since I am not an attorney, I suggest that you consult with an attorney and see if I am right. If your attorney can prove me wrong, you can win the $50,000.
____________________
I personally am from England and I’ve looked at the site you referred to, http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
I’ve also watched Aaron Russo’s film Freedom2Fascism http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198&q=freedom+to+fascism
But commenting on the arguments about the Tax/legal system of another country can be a little shaky I must admit. However there is nothing like a substantial reward to get the truth discovered what ever it is.
I’m sure that Kent Hovind would like to know whether he needs to repent of his accused crime or not.
Put an end to this debate and make yourself some money in the process.
Jason x
Maturekid
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 6:00pm:Jason x,
Thanks for the info and back up.
Darling,
I didn’t say IRS Tax Code. I specifically mentioned the Federal Income Tax which is under heavy scrutiny. If you watch the Aaron Russo’s Film Freedom 2 Fascism at the link Jason provided and many of the links provided in the thread titled Nov9 -
Update on CSE and Dr. Hovind’s status. Scroll a short way down to JR Turner’s Nov 10th at 2:05 AM post and find a massive list of links to research.
I’ve found the http://www.originalintent.org website to be most informative on the topic. When you do the viewing of the Russo film and digest the content of at least the above website, you’ll start to see what people are saying. The US Supreme Court and lower courts have made several rulings on the Federal Income Tax. See the above movie link and the websites to piece it all together. This is definitely a complicated topic as the IRS tax code is about the most complicated set of codes on the face of the planet.
Within the IRS tax code though, changes have been made to it that are routinely challenged on different rationale in court. Some have lost, some have won. The rebate on the federal excise tax on telephone landlines is one such topic. A more relevant one to Dr. Horvind’s issue is located here: http://www.aclj.org/TrialNotebook/Read.aspx?id=416. The topic covered there refers to the licensing of churches by the State. We can thank Lyndon B Johnson for that bit of vengeful and potentially unconstitutional addition to the IRS tax code.
Have fun researching.
Matthew
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 6:59pm:Julia,
What if you need be a Muslim to get into heaven? You do not know do you?
Or what if you are not Christian, yet you obey all or most of the “commandments,” will you get into heaven? Nothing is predetermined.
MillerFamily6
What cannot God use evolution to create beings?
Evolution has been observed such as the Galapagos finches, transitional forms,speciation, etc. It is that you just choose to ignore it.
Evolution merely describes part of nature. The fact that that part of nature is important to many people does not make evolution a religion.
Religions explain ultimate reality. Evolution stops with the development of life (it does not even include the origins of life).
Religions describe the place and role of humans within ultimate reality. Evolution describes only our biological background relative to present and recent human environments.
Religions almost always include reverence for and/or belief in a supernatural power or powers. Evolution does not.
Religions have a social structure built around their beliefs. Although science as a whole has a social structure, no such structure is particular to evolutionary biologists, and one does not have to participate in that structure to be a scientist.
Religions impose moral prescriptions on their members. Evolution does not. Evolution has been used (and misused) as a basis for morals and values by some people, such as Thomas Henry Huxley, Herbert Spencer, and E. O. Wilson, but their view, although based on evolution, is not the science of evolution; it goes beyond that.
Religions include rituals and sacraments. With the possible exception of college graduation ceremonies, there is nothing comparable in evolutionary studies.
Religious ideas are highly static; they change primarily by splitting off new religions. Ideas in evolutionary biology change rapidly as new evidence is found.
How can a religion not have any adherents? When asked their religion, many, perhaps most, people who believe in evolution will call themselves members of mainstream religions, such as Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism. None identify their religion as evolution. If evolution is a religion, it is the only religion that is rejected by all its members.
Evolution may be considered a religion under the metaphorical definition of something pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. This, however, could also apply to stamp collecting, watering plants, or practically any other activity. Calling evolution a religion makes religion effectively meaningless.
It should be noted that since Kent Hovind’s conviction, there has been more comments posted on the blog, especially from those who disagree with Hovind. Once again, I ask those who agree with Hovind, are you Christians or are you Hovindians?
darling
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 7:18pm:Jason – I guess you didn’t look closely enough at that site. Near the bottom it says:
“If you’re right, why don’t you claim the $________ reward that [name of tax protester] is offering to anyone who can show [insert tax protester gibberish here]?”
I won’t cut and paste the entire answer, but suffice to say that Conklin’s offer is entirely bogus.
Don’t believe me? If you can prove – to my satisfaction – that it’s a genuine challenge then I will give you $50,000
Samphire
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 8:54pm:Hi julia
Yes, I am well aware of Pascal’s wager. Not very honest is it? I would rather be true to myself than dishonest with a God I cannot believe in.
You also wrote “Hi again samphire! Maybe, you’ve mistaken certain groups to be Christian groups. Do you know how many religious denominations are registered now? You won’t be misled by a so-called religious group if you’re armed with the Words of the Holy Bible. Are you aware that there should be ONLY ONE religion? ONLY ONE faith? Try reading the Scriptures… You won’t regret it….”
The very fact that there are so many Christian groups belies your statement. They cannot all be right, can they? As for reading the Scriptures answer me one question. Should you love your parents or hate them?
Samphire
aedan_tremaine
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 9:41pm:“Many have never memorized scriptures in their life, and maybe that is why they are in jail. Scripture helps us to “cleanse our ways” Psalm 119:9-11.”
After all, all that scripture that Hovind memorized kept HIM out of jail…
Samphire
Said this on December 7th, 2006 at 10:00pm:H Millerfamily6
The history of the Christian movement is one of apostasy from its very beginnings – not just the end times. By the way, St Paul, just like you, thought he was living the end times. I believe that he and you are wrong.
You also said “Sir, I do not need to go to “authoritative” sources to find out about evolution, as I have the ONLY authority that I need, which is the word of God to guide me and direct my heart into ALL truth.”
I was a public school (in the English sense) child indoctrinated with Christianity (praise the Lord it never registered with me). I sought to find out what the Bible said once I became a young man, and so many questions went unanswered. You see, Mrs Millerfamily6, as St Paul taught, when one becomes a man one must give up childish things and think as a man. As far as we know, the human brain is the most amazing thing that exists in the entirety of the Universe; it is a blasphemy not to use. And the evidence of the Universe shouts that you are wrong. Presumably you are a believer in Noah’s flood else you would probably not be on this webpage. One of creationism’s greatest proponents of flood geology, John Baumgardner (who ideas Mr H uses in his seminars), is interviewed in this week’s New Scientist and I have his article in front of me as I write. Even he has very great difficulties in showing that his version of events could possibly have worked. Indeed, his computer modelling indicates to him that his ideas are wrong. However, as he already believed in the flood and still does he continues vainly to try to prove his case. I don’t believe he will ever be able to do so. So thank you, but I do not wish to become as a child.
It also seems from the various posts on the CSEblogs that very few Christians are bound for heaven.
You said “By the way, those authorities are questionable, since my God tells me that I should “avoid profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.” Well, I have read a lot of science stuff and continue to do so. None of it could be typified as “profane and vain babblings”. They are the findings of honest men.
You say “Evolution has never been observed…a child can know that. It takes faith to believe in Evolution. Faith is defined as: 1) Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; 2)The assent of the mind to the truth of a proposition advanced by another; belief on probable evidence of any kind; therefore, evolution is the object of belief and a system of doctrine (teachings) believed, based on the authority and veracity of another.”. I say, simply, you are wrong; please see my previous posts. You only have to go and look at the White Cliffs of Dover to observe for oneself that the world is more than 6,000 years old. To disbelieve the hard tangible evidence of ones own eyes is unacceptable to me. If you have not done so perhaps you may like to read Edmund Gosse’s Victorian autobiography “Father and Son” which tells the true story of a Christian naturalist’s struggle with his conscience in his attempt to reconcile biblical literalism with uniformitarianism. You can find it on the Project Gutenberg webpage if you don’t want to buy it.
You said “`Sir, you said, “I would have a great problem understanding where he lives what with your God being omnipresent.” Why? If you’ve ever read the Bible, Mr. Samphire, you can clearly understand where satan’s domain is. He is the prince and power of the air, and has permission (for the time being) of His Creator to roam up and down this earth. His final abode will be the pit of Hell!”.
So it is your belief that Satan lives within the omnipresent God – a God who is supposed to abhor evil. I don’t find that to be a logical argument nor I am prepared to revile my rationality by believing it. Here in England, it is against the law to set a mantrap or even to put broken glass on top of a wall to injure someone who might try to break in to one’s property. How much greater some men’s ethicality can seem to that of the Christian God. You use the elegant and respectful address form of one from the Southern states (which I like). Were not many christians of the Southern states the great opponents of the abolition of slavery?
Kind regards
Samphire
taco
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 6:00am:Matthew,
Nobody on this site FOLLOWS Kent Hovind. We listen and make observations and yes sometimes in part or in majority agree with his theories. We do however FOLLOW Jesus. You should really stop and think about what you are saying and probably take a moment to ask yourself why you are bent on harming someones name and reputation. So far on this board you have offered not one piece of support, a kind word, a show of love, etc.. Since the only thing you have shown is aggression and contempt for everyone on this board, and just a plain mean and ill spirited attitude, my recommendation would be to find a board that is more to your liking. You obviosly just want to fight and be rude.
Taco
Matthew
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 9:17am:Taco
It is Kent Hovind who damaged his name and reputation on his own. Kent Hovind has made fun of people such as the goth culture and ridiculing those who know evolution is true. You say what that I am being rude, but it is the truth and the truth hurts. Take a good look at the facts and know the truth.
Jason
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 9:31am:darling
Said this at 7:18pm:
Jason – I guess you didn’t look closely enough at that site. Near the bottom it says:
“If you’re right, why don’t you claim the $________ reward that [name of tax protester] is offering to anyone who can show [insert tax protester gibberish here]?”
I won’t cut and paste the entire answer, but suffice to say that Conklin’s offer is entirely bogus.
Don’t believe me? If you can prove – to my satisfaction – that it’s a genuine challenge then I will give you $50,000
________________________________________________________
Hi Darling,
You say there is a law for Tax etc….and the challenges are bogus…
I appreciate the offer of $50,000, why don’t you offer the same challenge to Mr. Conklin? as he is much better placed to prove himself to you than I am.
You could also match these offers…
$300,000
Freedom Law School
Author: Peymon Mottahedeh, President of Freedom Law School
Posted on 10/13/1999 11:37:45 PDT by CHIEF negotiator
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3804d17922ce.htm
$50,000
Federal Correctional Institution
Irwin Schiff 08537-014
PO Box 2000
Fort Dix, New Jersey 08640
http://www.paynoincometax.com/toledo.htm
Why don’t you contact them with your genuine offer, I said these people are much better place to prove themselves to you than a curious bloke observing your apparently very unclear laws from England.
As I said in my last post I would just like to see the issue cleared up one way or another.
Again thanks
Jason x
Samphire
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 2:00pm:Hi, Selena,
Like most of the stories in the Bible, the fables you recite are both apocryphal.
Contrary to your statement, I have no idea whether or not God exists. However, I do think that his existence is unlikely. If He does exist I’ve no idea whether he is the Christian or the Muslim God or some other personification. My suspicion is that He could not possibly be bound by such limited descriptions.
You have chosen to believe in your particular version of the Christian God. Other Christian sects have different ideas to yours. Had you been bred and born in the Middle East the chances are you would subscribe to the Muslim version. Do you think it reasonable or rational that the survival of one’s eternal soul should depend upon when and where one is born?
I think that I know in some degree what is good, what is just, what is merciful but I have not derived such qualities from the Bible. Unlike Mr Hovind, Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart and most of the 4,392 Catholic priests accused of sexual abuse since 1950, I certainly do not know what it means to walk righteously before God and, I suspect, neither does anybody else. Jesus himself seemed rather uncertain as to exactly what was required. Presumably, you believe that all Catholics, Mormons, Jehova’s Witnesses, Quakers, Methodists, Exclusive Brethren, Pentacostalists, Seventh-day Adventists, Russian Orthodox, Coptists, Premillenialists, Postmillenialists, Episcopalians, Calvanists, Christian Scientists, New Life Churchists, any graduate of Wheaton College, the vast majority of members of the Church of England etc are all bound for Hell (strike out of the list whichever sects or groups you belong to) – and not forgetting all those Christians who believe in the fact of evolution.
You are right that God does not need to explain himself to me – although it would be merciful if he did. But assuming He is a just God I would find it difficult to believe that his creation was designed to deceive. To accept the truth of a young Universe (the purpose of this website) from the evidence of geology and astronomy (to name but only two scientific discliplines) requires considerable self-deception. I do not believe God, if He exists, would wish me to deceive myself. It is because the Universe is so wonderful that mankind finds it necessary to study it but the Bible cannot be used as an instruction manual for the Hubble telescope or the Space Station. So are you suggesting that, having studied the heavens (which of themselves prove the falsity of a young Universe), astronomers should ignore their findings in favour of the bronze-age myths of long-dead Jewish shamans? If that is your position then I have to ask who is the one who is being foolish.
Here is something for you to think about, Selena. It is an ineluctable conclusion that all the many many millions of fossilised species found in the sedimentary layers alleged by young Universe creationists to have been laid down by the Great Flood must have been alive when Noah received his instructions from God as recited in Genesis 6, as follows:
17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.
19And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
21And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
Firstly:
Therefore, if the Bible is to be believed, there must have been two representatives of each of the millions and millions of species which have ever existed alive on the Ark. (The Bible is silent on hermaphrodite species) But the mystery is that of those species which died in the Great Flood and became fossilised there is not a single example which is still alive today and, furthermore, not a single example has been discovered which exists alive today which died and became fossilised in those sedimentary layers laid down by the Flood. Can you explain why this would be?
Secondly,
Mr.H. claims that only “kinds” were taken on to the Ark although he cannot define what a “kind” is and therefore the numbers involved would have been much lower. It appears that Mr.H. believes that an animal is a member of a “kind” if it looks the same as another animal. So, presumably, one species of beetle would represent the half million species of beetle alive today. This being the case a half million species of beetle have evolved in the last four or five thousand years, a vastly faster process than any evolutionist would suscribe to. Mr.H has failed to give any solution to this problem and I wonder whether you can help?
Kind regards
Samphire
joshrjb
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 2:39pm:Dear Samphire,
Thanks for your post. It’s very well-written, and I appreciate your honesty in saying you do not know whether or not God exists. I had the same problem … until I met the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me.” (John 14:6) By faith, I looked at Jesus on the cross, realizing this was indeed the Creator of the universe come down to earth to bring me to Himself, and He proved it by rising from the dead the third day! Take some time and examine yourself according to God’s perfection. Have you ever told a lie? Have you stolen something, regardless of its value? Have you been so angry with someone you wished they were dead? All of these things are sin in the sight of a holy and perfect God. Jesus suffered and died on the cross for you so that when you have to face a holy and perfect God on judgment day you can be set free and live with Jesus forever! The Scripture says Jesus died for the ungodly. That’s all of us. But we must believe the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of God’s Only Son, turn to Jesus and receive Him into our hearts as Lord and Savior in order for Jesus’ sacrifice to be personally credited to us by God. There are answers to your questions, and God’s Word has them! Do you think that maybe you do need to seek God before this day ends and see if what I’m saying is true?
darling
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 3:07pm:Jason said this at 9:31am:
I appreciate the offer of $50,000, why don’t you offer the same challenge to Mr. Conklin?
________________________________________________________
You’re the one who brought it up here, so I’m offering it to you. Don’t you want $50,000? How about if I match the other bogus ‘challenges’ as well? What would that be, $400,000?
It’s easy to make these so-called challenges. All you have to do is set up the rules so nobody can win, no matter what they do. Mr. Conklin knows he can’t win my money (Walder v. Conklin), and so do you. Otherwise, why would you turn down the chance to make an easy $50,000?
In any case, the issues *are* clear. Tax protester arguments fail every time in court – where it counts. The answers are all in the link I provided. All you have to do is read.
These bogus challenges are nothing more than red herrings.
Horst Gisbertz
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 3:33pm:Hello Dr.Kent Hovind and Ms.Hovind,
I wish I would be there in “BUNK 3″ and listen to the word of god and Jesus teachings of the bible. Me and my wife Oksana wish you all the best. We pray for both of you and for your enemies. Please god forgive them, then tey are not knowing what they are doing.
How we can help? Is there any other thing we could do for you after prayer? I would like to go ahead with the translation work into
German because my kids are studying in Germany and they ask allready for DVD,s translatet into the german language. My son and my daughter will spread the word about the truth of the creation and all related aspects. Personally I have email contact with Paul
Abramson and he will keep me postet what will happen in close future. Thanks….many, many thanks for helping us to bring us back on
track to believe in god and reading the bible.
Best Regards
Horst & Oksana Gisbertz
JR Turner
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 4:05pm:A special thanks goes to Gordon Phillips, National Director of reps for SAPF, for compiling these incredible quotes.
http://www.save-a-patriot.org
They Told The Truth!
… About The Internal Revenue Service
o “In a recent conversation with an official at the Internal Revenue Service, I was amazed when he told me that ‘If the taxpayers of this country ever discover that the IRS operates on 90% bluff the entire system will collapse’ “.
o - Henry Bellmon, Senator (1969)
o “… the key question is: can we define ‘income’ in a fair and reasonably straightforward manner? Unfortunately we have not yet succeeded in doing so”.
o -Shirley Peterson, former IRS Commissioner, April 1993
o “I don’t like the income tax. Every time we talk about these taxes we get around to the idea of ‘from each according to his capacity and to each according to his needs’. That’s socialism. It’s written into the Communist Manifesto. Maybe we ought to see that every person who gets a tax return receives a copy of the Communist Manifesto with it so he can see what’s happening to him”.
o -T. Coleman Andrews, Commissioner of Internal Revenue, May 25, 1956 in US. News & World Report
o “Our federal tax system is, in short, utterly impossible, utterly unjust and completely counterproductive [it] reeks with injustice and is fundamentally un-American… it has earned a rebellion and it’s time we rebelled”.
o -President Ronald Reagan, May 1983, Williamsburg, VA
o “If no information or return is filed, [the] Internal Revenue Service cannot assess you”.
o - Gary Makovski, Special IRS Agent, testifying under oath in US. v. Lloyd
o “Our tax system is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint”.
o - United States Supreme Court, in Flora v. United States
o “Our tax system is based on individual self-assessment and voluntary compliance”.
o -Mortimer Caplin, Internal Revenue Audit Manual (1975)
o “The United States has a system of taxation by confession”.
o -Hugo Black, Supreme Court Justice, in U.S.A. Kahriger
o “Only the rare taxpayer would be likely to know that he could refuse to produce his records to IRS agents… Who would believe the ironic truth that the cooperative taxpayer fares much worse than the individual who relies upon his constitutional rights”.
o -Judge Cummings, U.S. Federal Judge, in US. v. Dickerson (7th Circuit 1969)
o “Let me point this out now. Your income tax is 100 percent voluntary tax, and your liquor tax is 100 percent enforced tax. Now, the situation is as different as night and day. Consequently, your same rules just will not apply…”.
o -Dwight E. Avis, former head of the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division of the IRS, testifying before a House Ways and Means subcommittee in 1953
o “The purpose of the IRS is to collect the proper amount of tax revenues at the least cost to the public, and in a manner that warrants the highest degree of public confidence in our integrity, efficiency and fairness. To achieve that purpose, we will encourage and achieve the highest possible degree of voluntary compliance in accordance with the tax laws and regulations…”.
o -Internal Revenue Manual, Chapter 1100, section 1111.1
o “Fear is the key element for the IRS in achieving its mission. Without fear, the IRS would have a difficult time maintaining our so-called system of voluntary compliance …”. “Given the opportunity, the IRS will take the easy way out and grab whatever it can… the IRS does not really care about you and what your future……. may be”.
o -Santo Presti, former IRS Criminal Investigation Agent and author of “IRS In Action”
o “The IRS is an extraordinary example of the end justifying the means. The means of this agency is growth. It is interesting that the revenue officers within the IRS refer to taxpayers as ‘inventory’. The IRS embodies the political realities of the selfish human desire to dominate others. Thus the end of this gigantic pretense of officialdom is power, pure and simple. The meek may inherit the earth, but they will never receive a promotion in an agency where efficiency is measured by the number of seizures of taxpayers’ property and by the number of citizens and businesses driven into bankruptcy”.
o - George Hansen, Congressman and author of “To Harass Our People”
o “I have sat on many a promotion panel where the first question of panel members was ‘How many seizures have you made?”‘.
o -Joseph R. Smith, eighteen-year IRS agent, testifying before Congress
o “The agency that is so strict on the way Americans keep their books cannot even pass a financial audit”.
o -Ted Stevens, Republican Senator from Alaska
o “Eight decades of amendments… to [the] code have produced a virtually impenetrable maze… The rules are unintelligible to most citizens… The rules are equally mysterious to many government employees who are charged with administering and enforcing the law”.
o – Shirley Peterson, Former IRS Commissioner, April14, 1993 at Southern Methodist University
o “some techniques can be used only in connection with a full-scale program due to the nature of the tax situation and the need to avoid unnecessary taxpayer reaction. An example would be income tax returns compliance efforts aimed at the non-business taxpayer”.
o -Internal Revenue Service Manual, section 5221 “Returns Compliance Programs”
o “This [audit] was made extremely difficult because [IRS] existing Systems were not designed to provide reliable financial information… on their operations”.
o -Comptroller Bowsher, Government Accounting Office, on the first-ever audit of the IRS in 1993.
o “The wages of the average American worker, after inflation and taxes, have decreased 17% since 1973, the only Western industrial nation to so suffer”.
o -Martin Gross, author of “The Tax Racket: Government Extortion From A to Z”
o About Social Security
o “When you pay social security taxes, you are in no way making provision for your own retirement. You are paying the pensions of those who are already retired. Once you understand this, you see that whether you will get the benefits you are counting on when you retire depends on whether Congress will levy enough taxes, borrow enough, or print enough money…
o -W. Allen Wallis, former Chairman of the 1975 Advisory Council on Social Security, May27, 1976
o “There is no prospect that today’s younger workers will receive all the Social Security and Medicare benefits currently promised them”.
o -Dorcas Hardy, former Social Security Commissioner and author of “Social Insecurity”, quoted in the December 1995 Reader’s Digest.
o ‘All we have to do now is to inform the public that the payment of social security taxes is voluntary and watch the mass exodus”.
o -Walter E. Williams, John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University in Fairfax, VA, January 24, 1996.
o …About The Law
o “The Constitution is a written instrument. As such it’s meaning does not alter. That which it meant when adopted, it means now.
o -United States Supreme Court in South Carolina vs. United States (1905)
o “The Constitution prohibits any direct tax, unless in proportion to numbers as ascertained by the census….. [and] … prohibits Congress from laying a direct tax on the revenue from property of the citizen without regard to state lines…
o - United States Supreme Court in Pollack v. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Company (1895)
o “… [the 16th Amendment] conferred no new power of taxation… [and]… prohibited the … power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the be ginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged…”.
o -United States Supreme Court in Stanton v. Baltic Mining (1916)
o “To lay with one hand the power of government on the property of the citizen, and with the other to bestow it on favored individuals… is none the less robbery because it is… called taxation”.
o -United States Supreme Court in Loan Association v. Topeka (18__ )
o “…the intent of the lawmaker is to be found in the language that he has used”.
o -United States Supreme Court in U.S. V. Goldberg (1897)
o “Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many Citizens, because of their respect for what appears to be law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their rights due to ignorance”.
o -United States Supreme Court in US. v. Minker, 350 US 179 at 187
o “No State shall… coin money; emit bills of credit; make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts…”.
o -United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1
o “… bank records are not the depositor’s private papers and having given the information to the bank, the depositor has no legitimate expectation of continued privacy… Records of an individual’s accounts with banks are not the individual’s private papers protected against compulsory production by the 4th Amendment, but instead are the business records of the banks”.
o -United States Supreme Court in US. v. Miller
o “In questions of power, then, let no more be said of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution”.
o -Thomas Jefferson
o …About Money, Banking & The Federal Reserve
o “100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt … all individual in-come tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government”
o -Grace Commission report submitted to President Ronald Reagan on January 15, 1984
o ‘In 1833, a small group of Socialists met in London, announcing their intentions of converting the British economic system from capitalism to socialism. This group chose the name “Fabian Society”. One of the leading members of the Fabian Society, author George Bernard Shaw, perhaps summed it up best when he said, quote: “… Socialism means equality of income or nothing… under socialism you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly feed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you like it or not. If it were discovered that you had not character enough to be worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner; but whilst you were permitted to live you would have to live well”
o -Edgar Wallace Robinson in his 1980 booklet titled “Rolling Thunder”
o “Of all contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money”.
o - Daniel Webster
o “All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America rise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation”.
o -John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson in 1787
o “Gold is still the ultimate store of wealth. It’s the world’s only true money. And there isn’t much of it to go around. All of it ever mined would fit into a small building – a 56 foot cube. The annual world production would fit into a 14 foot cube, roughly the size of an ordinary living room. If each Chinese citizen were to buy just one ounce, it would take up the annual supply for the next 200 years”.
o - Mark Nestmann, author of “How To Achieve Personal And Financial Privacy In A Public Age
o “I see in the near future a crisis approaching. It unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country… the Money Power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign”‘ by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.”
o -Abraham Lincoln, – In a letter written to William Elkin just after the passage of the National Banking Act of 1863 and less than five months before he was assassinated.
o “… the privilege of creating and issuing money… is the government’s greatest creative opportunity… [saving] the taxpayers immense sums of money…”.
o -Abraham Lincoln
o “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered”.
o -Thomas Jefferson in 1802 in a letter to then Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin
o “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies”.
o - Thomas Jefferson
o “Give me control over a nation’s currency and I care not who makes its laws”
o - Baron M.A. Rothschild (1744 – 1812)
o “Under the surface, the Rothschilds long had a powerful influence in dictating American financial laws. The law records show that they were powers in the old Bank of the United States [abolished by Andrew Jackson]“.
o -Gustav Myers, author of “History of the Great American Fortunes”
o “… You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out”.
o -President Andrew Jackson, upon evicting a delegation of international bankers from the Oval Office
o “If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given to be used by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations”.
o - Andrew Jackson
o “The few who can understand the system will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favors, that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of the people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantages that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests”.
o - John Sherman, protege of the Rothschild banking family, in a letter sent in 1863 to New York Bankers, Morton, and Gould, in support of the then proposed National Banking Act
o “.. we conclude that the [Federal] Reserve Banks are not federal … but are independent privately owned and locally controlled corporations… without day to day direction from the federal government.”
o - 9th Circuit Court in Lewis v£ United States, June 24, 1982
o “Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are US government institutions They are not… they are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the US. for the benefit of themselves and their foreign and domestic swindlers, and rich and predatory money lenders. The sack of the United States by the Fed is the greatest crime in history. Every effort has been made by the Fed to conceal its powers, but the truth is the Fed has usurped the government. It controls everything here and it controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will”.
o -Congressman Charles McFadden, Chairman, House Banking and Currency Committee, June 10, 1932
o “when you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover that check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money”.
o -Boston Federal Reserve Bank in a publication titled “Putting It Simply”
o “We make money the old fashioned way. We print it”.
o -Art Rolnick, former Chief Economist, Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank
o “This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon.”
o -Robert Hemphill, Credit manager of Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta.
o “Historically, the United States has been a hard money country. Only [since 1913] has the United States operated on a fiat money system. During this period, paper money has depreciated over 87%. During the preceding 140 year period, the hard currency of the United States had actually maintained its value. wholesale prices in 1913… were the same as in 1787″.
o -Kenneth Gerbino, former chairman of the American Economic Council
o “About all a Federal Reserve note can legally do is wipe out one debt and replace it with itself another debt, a note that promises nothing. If anything’s been paid, the payment occurs only in the minds of the parties…”.
o - Tupper Saussy, author of” The Miracle On Main Street”
o “By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose”.
o - John Maynard Keynes, economist and author of “The Economic Consequences Of The Peace”
o “Inflation has now been institutionalized at a fairly constant 5% per year. This has been determined to be the optimum level for generating the most revenue without causing public alarm. A 5% devaluation applies, not only to the money earned this year, but to all that is left over from previous years. At the end of the first year, a dollar is worth 95 cents. At the end of the second year, the 95 cents is reduced again by 5%, leaving its worth at 90 cents, and so on. By the time a person has worked 20 years, the government will have confiscated 64% of every dollar he saved over those years. By the time he has worked 45 years, the hidden tax will be 90%. The government will take virtually everything a person saves over a lifetime”.
o - G. Edward Griffin, historian and author of “The Creature From Jekyll Island”
o “The real truth of the matter is, and you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the US. since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president”.
o - President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, November 23, 1933 in a letter to Colonel Edward Mandell House
o “…our system of credit is concentrated… in the hands of a few men… a power so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that [we had] better not speak above [our] breath when [we] speak in condemnation of it … We have come to be … completely controlled… by … small groups of dominant men”.
o -President Woodrow Wilson
o “The Founding Fathers of this great land had no difficulty whatsoever understanding the agenda of bankers, and they frequently referred to them and their kind as, quote, ‘friends of paper money. They hated the Bank of England, in particular, and felt that even were we successful in winning our independence from England and King George, we could never truly be a nation of freemen, unless we had an honest money system. Through ignorance, but moreover, because of apathy, a small, but wealthy, clique of power brokers have robbed us of our Rights and Liberties, and we are being raped of our wealth. We are paying the price for the near-comatose levels of complacency by our parents, and only God knows what might become of our children, should we not work diligently to shake this country from its slumber! Many a nation has lost its freedom at the end of a gun barrel, but here in America, we just decided to hand it over voluntarily. Worse yet, we paid for the tyranny and usurpation out of our own pockets with “voluntary” tax contributions and the use of a debt-laden fiat currency!”.
o -Peter Kershaw, author of the 1994 booklet “Economic Solutions”
o Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.”
o Woodrow Wilson – In his book entitled The New Freedom (1913)
o “The fact is that there is a serious danger of this country becoming a pluto-democracy; that is, a sham republic with the real government in the hands of a small clique of enormously wealth men, who speak through their money, and whose influence, even today, radiates to every corner of the United States.”
o William McAdoo – President Wilson’s national campaign vice-chairman, wrote in Crowded years (1974)
o “The powers or financial capitalism had (a) far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world’s central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank…sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world.”
o Prof. Carroll Quigley in his book Tragedy and Hope
o “In a small Swiss city sits an international organization so obscure and secretive….Control of the institution, the Bank for International Settlements, lies with some of the world’s most powerful and least visible men: the heads of 32 central banks, officials able to shift billions of dollars and alter the course of economies at the stroke of a pen.”
o Keith Bradsher of the New York Times, August 5, 1995
o “Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits.”
o Sir Josiah Stamp – President of the Bank of England in the 1920’s, and the second richest man in Britain.
o “The Federal Reserve Bank of New York is eager to enter into close relationship with the Bank for International Settlements….The conclusion is impossible to escape that the State and Treasury Departments are willing to pool the banking system of Europe and America, setting up a world financial power independent of and above the Government of the United States….The United States under present conditions will be transformed from the most active of manufacturing nations into a consuming and importing nation with a balance of trade against it.”
o Rep. Louis McFadden – (Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency) quoted in the New York Times (June 1930)
o “(The Great Depression resulting from the Stock Market crash) was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence….The international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so they might emerge as rulers of us all.”
o Rep. McFadden testified in Congress (1933). There were at least two attempts on his life by gunfire. He died of suspected poisoning after attending a banquet.
o “The Federal Reserve (Banks) are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the International Bankers.”
o Rep. Louis McFadden
o “Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all commerce and industry.”
o President James A. Garfield
o “History shows that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit and violent means possible to maintain control over governments by controlling the money and the issuance of it.”
o President James A. Madison
o “Nothing did more to spur the boom in stocks than the decision made by the New York Federal Reserve bank, in the spring of 1927, to cut the rediscount rate. Benjamin Strong, Governor of the bank, was chief advocate of this unwise measure, which was taken largely at the behest of Montagu Norman of the Bank of England….At the time of the Banks action I warned of its consequences….I felt that sooner or later the market had to break.”
o Money baron Bernard Baruch in Baruch: The Public Years (1960)
o “Thus corporations finally claimed the full rights enjoyed by individual citizens while being exempted from many of the responsibilities and liabilities of citizenship. Furthermore, in being guaranteed the same right to free speech as individual citizens, they achieved, in the words of Paul Hawken, ‘precisely what the Bill of Rights was intended to prevent: domination of public thought and discourse.’ The subsequent claim by corporations that they have the same right as any individual to influence the government in their own interest pits the individual citizen against the vast financial and communications resources of the corporation and mocks the constitutional intent that all citizens have an equal voice in the political debates surrounding important issues.”
o David C. Korten, in his book, When Corporations Rule the World
o “Give me control over a man’s economic actions, and hence over his means of survival, and except for a few occasional heroes, I’ll promise to deliver to you men who think and write and behave as I want them to.”
o Benjamine A. Rooge
o “The few who can understand the system (Federal Reserve) will be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favors, that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of the people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.”
o Rothschild Brothers of London
o ” The Federal Reserve Bank is nothing but a banking fraud and an unlawful crime against civilization. Why? Because they “create” the money made out of nothing, and our Uncle Sap Government issues their “Federal Reserve Notes” and stamps our Government approval with NO obligation whatever from these Federal Reserve Banks, Individual Banks or National Banks, etc.
o H.L. Birum, Sr. American Mercury, August 1957, p. 43
o “I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground that “all powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are preserved to the states or to the people.
o ” … To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. The incorporation of a bank, and the powers assumed by this bill (chartering the first Bank of the United States), have not, been delegated to the United States by the Constitution.”
o Thomas Jefferson – in opposition to the chartering of the first Bank of the United States (1791).
o “The money power preys on the nation in times of peace, and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes.”
o Abraham Lincoln
o “Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.”
o President James A. Garfield
o These statements were made during hearings of the House Committee on Banking and Currency, September 30, 1941.
o Members of the Federal Reserve Board call themselves “Governors”. Governor Eccles was Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board at the time of these hearings.
o Congressman Patman: “How did you get the money to buy those two billion dollars worth of Government securities in 1933?”
o Governor Eccles: “Out of the right to issue credit money.”
o Patman: “And there is nothing behind it, is there, except our Government’s credit?”
o Eccles: “That is what our money system is. If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn’t be any money.”
o Congressman Fletcher: “Chairman Eccles, when do you think there is a possibility of returning to a free and open market, instead of this pegged and artificially controlled financial market we now have?”
o Governor Eccles: “Never, not in your lifetime or mine.”
o Statements made during hearings of the House Committee on Banking and Currency, 1947.
o “Mr. Speaker, we are now in Chapter 11… Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any bankrupt entity in world history”.
o James Trafficant, Congressman, March 17, 1993 in the Congressional Record
Samphire
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 4:36pm:Hi, Joshrib,
The answers to your first three questions are yes, yes, and I don’t think so. In answer to your final question – no, I don’t.
All your trite sermonizing is very familiar territory to me. It really isn’t necessary for you to teach me to suck eggs.
You say “There are answers to your questions, and God’s Word has them”. OK. So what’s the big secret? Please tell me the answers to the two issues I posed in my previous post – they are very simple questions. I’ve answered your questions, why cannot you answer mine? The truth is that you cannot do so. And it is because the pro-Hovindians cannot do it that I get angry when Hovind brings his travelling slideshow over to England to corrupt the minds of our young people with his pseudo-scientific nonsense. I am happy for him to preach the Gospel but not for him to teach anti-science.
In fact, not one of the pro-Hovind posters above has actually attempted to answer any of the simple questions I have posed in this series of posts but all resort merely to scriptural platitudes. I don’t wish to be rude but my honest conclusion is faith=self-satisfied ignorance. [ Edited]
Where are you all hiding?
Kind regards
Samphire
amigas
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 5:20pm:Dear Samphire:
Christians do not claim the Bible to be a text book for any subject although we do claim that when it touches on any particular subject it is completely correct.
God’s creation is not designed to deceive and does not deceive. Man chooses to interpret data based on the assumption that there is no God, and therefore the only explanation left is evolution. The earth only looks old if you assume that it is old before you look. One good book to read is Starlight and Time by Russ Humphreys. The findings of the astronomers should never be ignored but the interpretation of those findings should not be so easily believed.
Every “species” of living creature was not on the Ark with Noah although every “kind” of animal was on the Ark. Only land animals which breathed through their nostrils needed be on the ark because they were killed by the flood as stated in Genesis 7:22.
Dr. Hovind does, as accurately as possible, define kinds in his videos. A “kind” is animals that can mate and reproduce. But to define kinds 100% accurately today with the genetic decay and loading that has occured over the last 4400 years or so would not be possible. Dr. Hovind explains this problem very well on his videos.
Jason
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 8:47pm:darling
Said this at 3:07pm:
Jason said this at 9:31am:
I appreciate the offer of $50,000, why don’t you offer the same challenge to Mr. Conklin?
________________________________________________________
You’re the one who brought it up here, so I’m offering it to you. Don’t you want $50,000? How about if I match the other bogus ‘challenges’ as well? What would that be, $400,000?
______________________________________________________
Hi Darling,
It is good of you to give me such a generous offer, $400,000 certainly not to be sniffed at.
As these are, as you say, bogus challenges, and it is easy to make such challenges, why don’t you create a web page as many others seem to have done, and offer your reward up to the wider community.
As the Tax protesters have done you could do also by, listing out exactly why you think the reputation of your Tax System is being unfairly tarnished by these so called knowledgeable Tax Protesters, and in defending the innocence of the IRS you could define your challenge point for point.
point one of your challenge to the world might be,
If you can prove that this challenge (set by darling) is a less genuine challenge than any challenge set by a Tax protester in America. I (darling) will give you $50,000.
other points could be along the line of….
If you can prove that Income Tax makes the American Constitution violated, or does violate an American’s constitutional rights. I (darling) will give you $100,000…
If you can prove that Tax protester arguments don’t fail every time in court. I (darling) will give you $250,000.
etc. etc.
Change the price structure as you will, I was just thinking of the $400,000 reward, you offered me..
Oh and don’t forget full contact address, (The same as the Tax Protesters in their challenges).
Make your challenge as genuine as you can, why cheat with small print or some sort of tricky wording as you say the Tax Protesters do. If you are sure of your convictions as you say you are make a stand, create the web page advertisement showing your offer.
Make it Good & bring the link back here and I will personally email it to as many of these so called Knowledgeable Tax Protesters, as I can find over the Internet.
You show nothing of the conviction of your beliefs by keeping your challenge limited to just me one bloke in England, who by his own admission finds (as stated on Dec 7th post above) commenting on the arguments about the Tax/legal system of another country can be a little shaky.
Upon reflection, it seems that Kent Hovind been imprisoned because of the conviction of his beliefs (right or wrong). Therefore when you say that I brought up the subject of Income Tax in this blog you are wrong, this blog is supposed to be about Kent Hovind, and my initial comments are entirely in context with the spirit of the blog (why has he been imprisoned???).
I wonder…….
Do you have the same convictions in your beliefs?
Why have you come here to this blog anyway?
I hope it’s not to mock someone who (right or wrong) has been imprisoned because of the conviction of his beliefs.
I like Kent Hovind, I’ve never met him or been to any of his seminars or debates, I have no affiliation to him what so ever. I’m here because I like him.
Either way round I’m interested in seeking the truth & knowing the truth, as far as your Income Tax law goes all I see is, some people saying, “it exists” and others saying, “it never was”.
At best the law is very unclear, at worst it’s none existent.
Maybe there should be some comment on where the money is actually going, and who actually controls the money in America?
Why is it that the job of printing money in America is given to a privately owned monopoly called “The Federal Reserve”?
Why isn’t the money being printed by the US Treasury?
Here is an interesting document web page http://www.federalobserver.com/print.php?aid=254
written in the hope that we can find truth as friends not enemies
Jason x
jproverbs3_5
Said this on December 8th, 2006 at 9:39pm:anymore comments from Doc Hovind? curious to see what is happening in Bunk 3…
Samphire
Said this on December 9th, 2006 at 3:30am:Dear Horst,
As a German and given the recent history of your country do you think it wise or godly that you should be allowing your children to have any association with a man who openly sells anti-Semitic books like Fourth Reich of the Rich and has recommended The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a book blaming the world’s problems on a Jewish conspiracy.
Environmentalism and income taxes, Hovind says, are designed to destroy the United States and “bring it under Communism.” “Democracy,” he says, “is evil and contrary to God’s law.” Do such comments remind you of anybody?
Kind regards
Samphire
lwilkinson
Said this on December 9th, 2006 at 8:36am:Hi Dr. Hovind!
My husband and I met you when you came to Sedemocha Middle School in Dover-Foxcroft, Maine a few years ago. What you taught that night changed our perspective on creation forever. We’ve shared your DVD’s with anyone who’s interested for about a year now. My husband was handing out a few copies of your seminar to a friend at church when our pastor came bounding up to ask us if we’d heard that you were in jail. My heart broke and it’s been breaking for you ever since. I’m particularly sad because I have no idea what happened. I’ve happened upon a few details here and there, but I understand this has been many years in the making. What I understand the least and wish to know the most is your convictions on taxes, 501c3, and so on. If someone who knows about this could fill me in, I’d be most appreciative.
I told my husband (who’s a little angry that this happened) that you’re the kind of man who’s strong enough and wise enough to lead an army into battle. I’d follow you anywhere, because you have the faith, the Biblical wisdom, and the simple ability to talk me into believing anything. I know that if I knew what your convictions were, I’d probably believe them as strongly as you do. I just don’t know what the argument is, and when I tell my friends who we most recently gave your DVD’s to that you’re in jail, I want something better than tax evasion to approach them with……….and I know there’s more to it than tax evasion, but I don’t know what. When I went to Wikipedia to research what happened, the position they took was decidedly against you, including everything from tax evasion to some sort of legal scuffle with your secretary. Nobody has had anything to tell me about your convictions. All I’ve heard is that you’re a man trying very skillfully to avoid paying taxes. I just don’t believe it. Will someone tell me the truth?
Regardless of what the truth is, we will not forget your bonds and will continue to pray for you. We love you to death! You’d laugh if you knew how much we love you. We watched your debate with Mike Shermer(spelling?) a few weeks ago. We were sitting on our bed rooting you on as though we were there. “Go, Dr. Hovind!” “You tell ‘um!” I’m surprised the neighbors didn’t call.
I’m wicked glad (in Mainer terms) that you have such an awesome ministry to the inmates in jail. You’ll probably have the whole place believing in Christ before the year’s out. May He richly bless you for what you’ve sacraficed on the alter of your love for Him. May the grace and peace of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, go with you during this difficult time and always.
Love from Maine,
Leanne
taco
Said this on December 9th, 2006 at 8:41am:MATTHEW AND SAMPHIRE
To those that will listen, lend and ear!
Without going into a long debate on evolution may I suggest that neither side can prove their point. My beliefs and YOURS are based in faith. We use faith in everyday life; sitting in a chair takes faith. You must put your trust in a chair and hope it will hold up. Our beliefs in life mirror this type of faith. My belief that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light are grounded in faith. Belief in a great flood and that the bible recorded it accurately are based in faith. BELIEF in evolution is grounded in FAITH that the scientist got it right. My point all along with respects to Matthew and Samphire is that there is a way to go about getting your point across. Saying something in a rude and loud manner doesnt make your opinion right. Bullies are usually the loud, crude, self centered ones that act this way and most people just smile and try and stay away from them. Being that this is a board of opinions I respect everyone here. Its a shame that some cant!
Signed,
One more opinion
ps. The GOD you MOCK is the GOD you’ll meet! WALK IN LOVE
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 9th, 2006 at 9:02am:Darling,
You are confusing the right to throw people in jail, which is a matter of POWER, with the question of Constitutionality, which is a matter of LAW.
Lots of dictators and oligarchical dictatorships before ours have flouted the LAW in previous history, by UNLAWFULLY imprisoning people. And those dictators had craven and/or uninformed folks just like yourself who would go about defending them.
Welcome to the 21st Century Amerikan Slave State. It’s time you woke up, read more, turned the TV off, and got used to it. Show some guts knowledge here.
In its nearly 100 years of unconstitutional existence, the IRS has never ceased to remain SILENT when challenged to cite the exact law that requires U.S. citizens to pay income tax. Dictators don’t quote law; dictators call out henchmen and throw people in jail. This is what we see now in the U.S. not law.
Again, you are talking about POWER. We the People, and Kent Hovind, are talking about LAW.
Read the book “The Creature from Jekyll Island” if you want to get off of the craven matrix you are living in.
Or watch the movie “America: From Freedom to Fascism.”
And there are plenty of other sources–just NON-big-corporation sources.
darling
Said this at 8:21am:
——————————————————————————–
Maturekid Said this at 1:32pm:
“There are legitimate questions on whether the Federal Income Tax is in compliance with the US Constitution or not.”
No, no there aren’t.
No court has held or will hold that the Internal Revenue Code is invalid or that the Internal Revenue Service lacks power to levy or collect income taxes.
prewrathx
Said this on December 9th, 2006 at 12:06pm:To any one with doubt in the case of Dr. Kent Hovinds innocence or guilt,
The bottome line here as to why the Hovinds are being persecuted to the extent that they are, is because in the world that we live in today, it is politically incorrect to wish somebody a merry Christmas. Instead, it has to be “Seasons Greetings” or “Happy Holiday”. Under no circumstance can we imply that the holiday of Christmas is involved with the celebrating of our dear Jesus being born to this earth only to later die for our sins. No, to be politically correct, we should remove the word “Christ” from everything. That is what our society is coming to. And when it comes to the foremention of the beloved religion of evolution being factually inaccurate or completely unproven, our society doesn’t want to even hear about it. That is the true reason as to why Kent Hovind is behind bars today, to shut him up. They like to live their lives the way they want to and they don’t want somebody like Kent Hovind telling them that there is a supreme being out there, with the name Jesus, who might have some rules for them. But to conclude this statement, to all those who do take a stand for evolution, and don’t know Jesus, there is still time. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son that whosover believes in him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16 If you haven’t, Give your life to Jesus because time could be running out.
In Jesus name
Tyler
JR Turner
Said this on December 9th, 2006 at 1:11pm:Dan Meador has now passed on but the fruit of his research lives on. Please condider the following research by Dan.
===================================================================================================================
Agents of a Foreign Government: A Bizarre Saga
By Dan Meador (April 5, 2000)
[Edited - Article was removed. Here are the links to the article:
http://www.svpvril.com/irs_dm_bc.html
http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/agents.htm
edited]
selena
Said this on December 9th, 2006 at 2:44pm:Dear Samphire: you said:
“Like most of the stories in the Bible, the fables you recite are both apocryphal.
Contrary to your statement, I have no idea whether or not God exists. However, I do think that his existence is unlikely. If He does exist I’ve no idea whether he is the Christian or the Muslim God or some other personification. My suspicion is that He could not possibly be bound by such limited descriptions.
You have chosen to believe in your particular version of the Christian God. Other Christian sects have different ideas to yours. Had you been bred and born in the Middle East the chances are you would subscribe to the Muslim version. Do you think it reasonable or rational that the survival of one’s eternal soul should depend upon when and where one is born?”
please tell me specifically which “fable” I recited to you? I merely quote a story I read, and thought was applicable. the bible is not full of fables, but full of actual events that happened to actual people, and you don’t just have to believe the bible, but historical writers have over and over confirmed what is in the bible is true, and have even added details. Of course, history can be made to say whatever one wants, as evolutionists and enemies of the united states and christianity have so abundantly over and over demonstrated. but…that is a subject for another day. Just look at history books being written today, for instance, about our founding fathers, and then compare them to the one’s written several hundred years ago. you won’t even recognize the subjects. on to other topics….
you say you donot know if God exists, and I contend you do know. I know that because of what I stated earlier, God placed within each person the knowledge of Himself, so that man is without excuse, and not only that, He states that all nature testifies to His greatness continually. you can deny this to yourself all day long, but you cannot get away from the truth: YOU KNOW, AND YOU WILL KNOW. as to your statement that He cannot possibly be “bound by such limited descriptions” as the koran or the bible, I AGREE, PRAISE GOD, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! Baruch Hashem! He is an awesome God and of course it is not in our human capacity to fully know Him! One day we will, but humans donot have the tools, abilities, whatever, to fully describe a God they have not seen! because our sin separates us from this God, we cannot fully know Him until we are made perfect in the resurrected, glorified bodies we will recieve when we die. however, He has and continues to reveal Himself to those who seek Him, and will do the same for you, if you call out to Him. What have you got to lose? Read the bible and call out to Him, and see what happens!! you will be wonderfully, pleasantly surprized, and it will save your eteranl soul.
as for WHO He is, the God of the bible or the muslim God, its simple: He never claims to be the muslim God. there is a vast difference in both, as you will see if you read both the koran and the bible. the most striking differences is the God of the koran is unknowable, distant, doesnt want or seek a relationship with his subjects, and is terrifying to most muslims. he does not offer redemption, but only a sure knowledge destruction. the God of the bible is merciful, compassionate, yearns to have a relationship with us, sent His Son to die on the cross for our sins so we could be with Him in eternity…..on and on!! there is not even a comparison. and I never said muslims, or people in the middle east or in china or australia cannot come to Him, ANYONE, ANYWHERE can come, but here’s the problem, most people want to come to Him on their terms, not His. THEY want to dictate to Him what they will or will not do, and expect Him to fall in line. what kind of a God would that be? But He has set the standard the same for all mankind, believe On HIs Son Jesus Christ, repent from your sins, and come follow HIm!! He never promises it will be and easy life free from suffering and misery, quite the contrary! but He has promised to help us in our time of need.
as for these other “christian leaders” you and everyone else loves to pull out of the tired old closet and parade them around as the reason’s why christians are wrong, foolish, stupid, corrupt, decievers, and believe me there are many of those out there…of course Jesus and Paul both warned that many decievers would come in His name, and decieve many. they are out there, I donot deny it. but people like you never choose to look at other christian leaders like dr. james dobson, david wilkerson, jim cymbala, d.l.moody, spurgeon, oswald chambers, and thousands like them who stood true to the faith, did not disgrace themselves and God, because you donot want the truth. you only want a reason to not see the truth, and you will read whatever you have to to make you feel better about yourself and those who feed you lies. because you donot want to deal with a Creator, because of He would require of you. it is not that you are offended by what these christians do, you are happy to see them do it, cuz then you can tell yourself, oh, this is what christians are like. and you will never stop and take the time to examine what the life of someone like the above was like. what they suffered for Christ’s name, and did not live in mansions, steal their followers blind. believe me, I, other christians,and God Himself finds this offensive just like you claim to. Christians are not perfect, just forgiven!! a vast difference! i am an imperfect creature who every minute is aware of God’s mercy in my life, and when I see someone like you, all I can think is: I am so thankful for His kindness to me a sinner!! there but for the Grace of God go I!! I pray that you will consider your eternal destination important enough to take the risk of prayerfully reading the bible. what do you have to lose!?!??!
you can spend hours and days on here debating and everyone trying to sound more learned or intelligent then the next person,but what is that other than a waste of time?? you may not live to see tomorrow! I wish you shalom in your life that can only be found in THE PRINCE OF PEACE, YESHUA THE MESSIAH!! sincerely, selena
compgene
Said this on December 9th, 2006 at 10:09pm:Dear Samphire,
In regards to your comment: “Presumably, you believe that all Catholics, Mormons, Jehova’s Witnesses, Quakers, Methodists, Exclusive Brethren, Pentacostalists, Seventh-day Adventists, Russian Orthodox, Coptists, Premillenialists, Postmillenialists, Episcopalians, Calvanists, Christian Scientists, New Life Churchists, any graduate of Wheaton College, the vast majority of members of the Church of England etc are all bound for Hell (strike out of the list whichever sects or groups you belong to) – and not forgetting all those Christians who believe in the fact of evolution.”
I am part of a large christian body at my university. I am a Baptist and I have Christian friends who are Catholic, Pentacostalists, Premillenialists, Calvanists, Anglican, and many friends who are fervent Christians as well as believers in evolution. I also know many more who don’t fall into those groups but probably reside in your list. Out of those hundreds of people, I know not one who would say that anyone in that list who puts his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ would be bound for hell. The one thing, you must realize, that is common to all those people is the unifying Lordship of Christ. For it is not by works but by faith that we enter into the Kingdom of heaven, and works are what seperate those groups.
Regards,
Compgene
Geno
Said this on December 10th, 2006 at 11:18am:A few comments on Mr. Hovind’s legal situation…
First: Jesus Christ Himself commands we should pay our taxes. I can see no exceptions in His command even if the government is despised or the tax is unfair. By refusing to meet his tax obligations, Mr. Hovind stands in defiance of Jesus Christ.
Second: Under the US Constitution, it is the Supreme Court that holds the final authority to determine if a law is constitutional or not. If I recall correctly, the Supreme Court has ruled (many times) that the income tax laws are constitutional. Mr. Hovind also defies the Supreme Court of the United States and the law of the land.
Third: Mr. Hovind has a long history as a tax protester. This dates back to at least 1996 when he filed bankruptcy in an effort to avoid payment of his taxes. In that action, he claimed that he was not a resident of the United States, but of the “Florida Republic”. I’ve asked for years, but not one Hovind supporter has ever identified the Florida Republic on a map. In addition, Mr. Hovind committed perjury by claiming he owned no property when Florida state records showed three vehicles and a home listed in his name. In that case, the Court indicated that Mr. Hovind had not filed taxes since 1989.
Link: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind-decision.html
Fourth: Mr. Hovind’s disputes with the authority of government are not limited to the federal government. It seems he has had a long running dispute with local officials over building permits. If memory serves, Mr. Hovind has stated his legal expenses in that matter run to tens of thousands of dollars over a $50 building permit. It seems Mr. Hovind does not feel he is subject to any government authority.
Fifth: Mr. Hovind’s case is before a federal court. State officials, including Governor Jeb Bush, have no more authority over federal courts than you or I. In addition, for an executive official to intervene in a judicial matter is a violation of our doctrine of seperation of powers. About the best Hovind could hope for is a pardon from President Bush. However, by accepting a pardon, Mr. Hovind would be admitting to wrongdoing. I don’t see that happening any time soon.
It is for those reasons, and his obvious lack of remorse, that I believe Mr. Hovind should serve some prison time. The period he mentioned in his “60-0″ post (7-12 years) seems about right. It truly pains me that he has chosen to squander precious resources and a substantial portion of his life in this way. That is a decision that he has made, and he must now deal with the consequences.
On the other hand, I do find this dark cloud over Mr. Hovind has a silver lining in that he is using this opportunity to bring the love of Christ to other inmates. It is my sincere hope that he will continue to do so successfully.
***********
Yes, I refuse to use the academic title of “Doctor” with regard to Mr. Hovind. His “PhD” comes from a “university” with no academic accreditation, no campus, no faculty, and (at the time Mr. Hovind got his certificate), no course catalog. In additon, from what I’ve been able to learn of his “thesis”, it is full of errors that would make a competent High School student blush. In other words, his “doctorate” has no academic value. To call Mr. Hovind “Doctor” is an insult to the many real PhD’s who have spent years earning that honor including such creationists as Doctor Baumgardner, Doctor Humprheys, an astronomer I know from a Yahoogroups list, Doctor Danny Faulkner and many others.
Georgio
Said this on December 10th, 2006 at 2:01pm:I have watched the CSE videos.
That is all of them.
That is over and over again.
Quite a few times.
Then some more!
I really enjoy listening to them, I -in my humble opinion- I can surely say, I have received a rather significant amount of knowledge.
Thank you!
However I do really want to, alas I cannot say, I will ever get to visit DAL.
It’s a bit waaaaaay to far for me.
Oh, and about HK being in jail…..
I would REALLY like to know, who organized it to happen this way.
The charge of tax fraud is the fraud it self.
Let’s not be naive.
Anyway:
never EVER give up.
Ever!
Hope to hear from you guys some times later.
Special greetings from Hungary, Europe to Dr. Hovind and Eric!
KarlRichII
Said this on December 10th, 2006 at 7:18pm:Samphire,
1. how does the survival of ones soul depend on when/where someone was born? The gospel is all over the place. and even the places where the gospel isn’t preached, people there have a conscience that they sin against on a daily basis, they’ve earned their spot in hell. And the scripture declares that if you seek God honestly and in a humble heart you will be found of him. Not if you seek religion, self-righteousness or a social club…
2. In your desire to slander Christians you’ve lumped anyone who names christ, obvious hypocrites included, into the same pot. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world (which throws out your little denomination comment, God knows who are His regardless of where they worship Christ)and that MANY will say in that day that they did much in His name and Jesus will rebuke them and say he never knew them. Pointing out hypocrites means NOTHING for your argument. If I as a black man put on a white hood, it don’t mean I’m in the KKK! and if anyone (and I don’t care if it’s the pope) is naming Christs name and is found to be a worker of iniquity he’s obviously NOT in Christ, he’s in the flesh. The word says so…
3. How is God’s creation designed to deceive? If anything it’s designed to provoke interest and discovery and wherever you have that, you have differing viewpoints on the findings. in a sin-filled flesh-pleasing world it’s no wonder that the viewpoint that excludes a holy God who will hold us accountable for our actions would be the most popular.
4. PLEASE tell me what beliefs (better yet just name one), besides the word of some guy with initials behind his name endorsing it, make you so positive that the universe is old? Evolution of one kind of animal to another is not a fact it is a belief, a very popular belief, but then again so was slavery…
5. Kent in his speeches has already addressed the “kind” issue… God never said species, sub-species or any of that junk. Plus, you meantion all these beetles and yadda yadda, bad argument champ, god said all the animals in whose NOSTRILS is the breath of life and all which move upon the earth, insects breath through their skin so they didnt have to go so who knows how many beetles there were originally.
6. I’m sure that if you read this you will make up in your mind that I am an un-educated tool that serves an imaginary God out of fear. feel free to believe that, because unless you know God (this goes for church folks too)then you will always think in the back of your mind that maybe there is no God, maybe it’s all imaginary, blah, blah, blah… but I challenge you to take God at his word, read the bible in an honest heart and ask God to manifest himself to you…. or continue believing that religion is for the weak/dumb or whatever your choice of agnostic opiate is and follow your flesh to damnation.
peace and love,
Karl
The American Street » Blog Archive » It’s all OK if you are a Christian
Said this on December 10th, 2006 at 7:40pm:[...] For another example of the sleazy behavior of evangelicals, I give to you Kent Hovind. Hovind is a dishonest creationist who was caught committing tax evasion. Not only was he skimming to enrich himself, but by playing games with their salaries and paying them under the table, he was screwing over his employees, which seems to be a most Christian thing to do. He’s been convicted and thrown in jail, and he has been sporadically posting blog entries from prison. These are appalling stories of a con man who can’t stop bilking his fellow inmates. have also been teaching math and science to some of the others. It is great to see convicted drug dealers get excited when they learn fourth grade level math for the first time. I have spent quite a bit of time with one 29-year-old man who cannot read at all. I have been teaching him phonics and we are reading Genesis 1, 2, 3 and John 1, 2, and 3. His face lights up when he sees that he can do it. I offer commissary items like soup or coffee to men who memorize Bible verses. There is no way to describe the joy that they show when they get it right. Many have never memorized scriptures in their life, and maybe that is why they are in jail. Scripture helps us to “cleanse our ways” Psalm 119:9-11. [...]
Flagboy
Said this on December 10th, 2006 at 11:32pm:Dr. Kent Hovind,
May God continue to bless you and protect you. I continue to pray for your quick release, if that is God’s will. If it is not His will, then I pray that God would use you mightily to reach many with the Truth of Jesus Christ.
Dr. Kent Hovind’s family,
May God continue His blessing upon you as well. May you be strong in your faith and proceed with the foundation of your ministry. While Kent is not able to be with you at this time, I pray that you will see this as a time to witness to all people. Again, I pray for Kent’s quick release as I know I’d want my family to be as one and not separated as you have been forced.
Revelation: Okay… not “THE” Revelation of God… but some things that I see as to why your situation may be ultimately for the Good of God’s Kingdom. I foresee the possibility of a GREAT EXPLOSION within the walls of the prison where Kent is being held. Not one of destructive force, but one of love. Kent, I am truly impressed with your walk and your unwillingness to allow a little stub of the toe to stop you from walking with the Lord. Continue to pour out the Love of Jesus upon these men who are in such a teachable position. If you are able to reach just 10 percent of these men that you are with that would be such a great witness, and then that 10 percent can continue to minister to those around them, in and out of prison. The Explosion I am talking about is The Explosion of the Gospel going out to an unrepentant world that so desperately needs to hear about the Truth of Jesus Christ.
How often do you post a report? I try to get in here on at least a weekly basis to get an update on your situation. Can you post a report every week? It is uplifting to me to hear report of your missionary work.
My wife and I purchased The Creation Seminar, The Debate Series, and The Topical Series on VCR Tapes back in 2001. We have used the Creation Seminar as a Bible Study in our Church, our youth in our church have been through the series a couple of times now. Thank you for showing all of us how we can trust the Bible again. After growing up in a Christian home and hearing God Created everything in 6 days, and then going to Biology Class in 10th grade, I came to the conclusion on my own of what is now known as Theistic Evolution. Thank you for giving me insight to interpret the evidence that my scientific mind needed to be able to believe in Creation as God told us.
Lately my wife and I have been through “The Truth Project” that was developed by Focus on the Family. We have really enjoyed the study and plan on leading others through the study as well. If you ever get the chance I suggest you take your new Brothers In Christ through that study as well. http://www.thetruthproject.org
Your Brother In Christ,
Thomas (age 40)
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 3:13am:I invite those YECs who are still reading this weblog to read the following article posted by Dr.Zorn at
http://paleo.cc/paluxy/joshzorn.htm
——————————————–
Colette
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 4:35am:Well said Selena & Joshrjb
Samphire, I hope you get answers for all your questions soon!
The Creator of the universe (that is jesus) loves you whether you like it
or not.
Keep well
Colette
Matthew
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 9:21am:Taco,
No, it is matter of logic. If you are going to say things that have proven wrong like the universe is only 6000 years old, then you better have something to back it up. Kent Hovind tries to convert people by lying (example the oldest tree is 4000 years old when it is 4700 and the Great Barrier Reef is 4000 years old, it is 20,000 years old), therefore you are following a false teacher.
Saying something in a rude and loud manner doesn’t make your opinion right? So, does the majority of people’s opinion make it irhgt? And why do you tell Samphire and I that the god we mock is the god we’ll meet? Is that not being rude?
The truth hurts.
darling
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 10:34am:Jason, I’m glad to see that you’re just making excuses, and not trying to win my money. I guess that means I’m right.
But do go ahead and get whatever help you need, from whomever you want.
BUT, before you do that, I want you to go and read and understand this. It explains *exactly* why you could never win. And it’s not because of small print.:
http://www.anti-irs.com/docs/walder_v_conklin.pdf
Pay particular attention to the bottom of page 3, top of page 4. Even assuming (as the court must) that Walder was 100% correct.
“[Conklin]… made himself the sole arbiter of the sufficiency of any answer tendered. [Conklin] did not find [Walder's] answer sufficient and consequently did not pay [Walder].”
That’s why Conklin’s offer is bogus. No matter how good the evidence that you present, all he has to say is ‘not sufficient’. And you lose. Again, with that rule you can ‘prove’ the sky is green.
Why has Mr. Hovind been imprisoned? Because he broke the law. I am sad that he is in jail – I wish that he had paid taxes on his employees, and saved everyone some time and aggravation, but he didn’t.
Again, the law is entirely clear. All the tax protester arguments have been tried over and over again. All have failed every time.
Now, you can be 100% convinced in your own mind that tax law doesn’t apply to you. You can post, as JR Turner did, long lists of irrelevant and/or out-of-context quotes.
But it doesn’t matter.
Next time this comes up in court, the court is going to say the exactly same thing. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
—-
Gordon_Comstock, there’s no confusion. The courts have been consistently clear over the past hundred years (and more) about what the LAW says.
The problem is not that the IRS doesn’t show people the law – although they certainly don’t have waste time and money responding to every kook and there – the problem is that some people just don’t want to read it. I know they don’t read it, because I keep posting it, and people keep pretending it doesn’t exist.
Again, it’s here:
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm
Again, it has nothing to do with why Mr. Hovind is in jail.
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 10:46am:Hi Amegas
So, according to Lev 11, a bat is a bird.
“God’s creation is not designed to deceive and does not deceive. Man chooses to interpret data based on the assumption that there is no God, and therefore the only explanation left is evolution.”
How does your assertion meld with the fact that the first old earth geologists were Christians.
With respect, Russ Humphreys is not a good author to read. Have you looked at the Christian websight http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/unraveling.shtml which critiques his Starlight and Time?
You have failed to answer either of my two previous questions.
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 10:59am:Ho, Compgene,
I was responding to the “walking in righteousness” statement by Selena. I wouldn’t have thought that, say, a member of the Exclusive Brethren would agree that a Mormon is walking in righteousness but generally I’m with you on this one. Nor am I sure that a traditional Calvanist would agree entirely with your views. Mr.H. also seems to think differently. Also, you do not mention the need for baptism.
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 11:00am:Sorry, Compgene, the Ho in my previous post was supposed to be Hi. My apologies.
seaducer
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 12:05pm:Dear “Dr. Dino”
Hi,
I am someone who has listened to your debates several times. Please know that I have written several long letters on your behalf to the judge as you requested. I wrote to inform him that you are right where you belong. I hope you stay there for a long long lllllooooonnnnnggggg time.
selena
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 12:26pm:to cse staff and Hovind family: we continue to pray for you and have written to the court on your behalf. are we going to get an update this week, we also like to hear how our new brothers are doing who are with Kent in jail. how can we write to them? you are in our prayers as we enter hanukkah week, we will continue to lift you up before the only ONE whose opinion really matters, JEHOVAH SHAMMAH, the EVER-PRESENT ONE, and His Son Yeshua our Messiah!! shalom, Selena and a Happy and Blessed HANUKKAH to everyone!!
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 12:44pm:Hi Selena
Thanks for that long one but, honestly, there is no need to shout and, also honestly, I actually DON’T KNOW whether there is a God or not. And I apologise for bringing up the names of those naughty people – I know I shouldn’t but I am always amazed at how people fall for their snake-oil. Actually, you are wrong about how I look at religious leaders – not just Christian ones. I do judge the Pope on his views about denying condoms which would prevent AIDS deaths (which I suspect he is changing) but also admire such men as Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks. As a by-the-by I think that you might enjoy a series of 3 recent programmes on the BBC which, if you have not already heard it, you can hear via computer on the “listen again” website http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/misc/insearchofgod.shtml
We have a poor bishop, a good man, who fell over in a London street a couple of days ago. He is being accused of having been drunk and already the censorious Mr Pooters of this world are seeking his resignation. But whereof Christian charity, say I? If a chap can’t have a little drinky occasionally what a boring old world it would be. So this evening I shall drink a small toast to the health of good ol’ Bishop Tom of Southwark whilst re-reading John 2. Long may his cup runneth over (whilst staying upright).
Answering your question about “which fable” I was referring to it was the one about Einstein. As I write I have before me Ronald W Clark’s “Einstein – The Life and Times”, a hefty tome of over 600 pages. No such story is recorded. However, on page 32 it reports “Always sensiive to beauty, abnormally sensitive to music, Einstein had no doubt been deeply impressed by the splendid trappings which decked out the Bavarian Catholicism of those days. But his emotions were won over, his mind remained free – with considerable results, for through the reading of popular scientific books he soon reached the conviction that much of the stories in the Bible could not be true”.
Although he seemed to believe in an order to the universe – a cosmic religion – Einstein did not believe in lIfe after death. As for cosmic orderliness his thinking was later severely shaken by quantum theory. As for biblical fables, I suggest we start at Genesis 1 and work forward. For instance, how did the legless talking serpent in the Garden of Eden walk prior to being cursed by God? Perhaps it hopped around on its tail as though it were on a pogo stick.
Exactly how does God help us in our time of need?
Finally, `’what do you have to lose?”, you ask. Only my reason.
Kind regards
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 1:00pm:Geno
Said this at 11:18am:
“It is for those reasons, and his obvious lack of remorse, that I believe Mr. Hovind should serve some prison time. The period he mentioned in his “60-0″ post (7-12 years) seems about right. It truly pains me that he has chosen to squander precious resources and a substantial portion of his life in this way.”
I bet one denarius that he only gets 51 months and back home just in time for Christmas day 2008. Any takers?
P.S. Does this bet constitute U.S. wire fraud?
compgene
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 1:10pm:Hey Samphire,
It is true that I am a baptist, but I do not believe that it is nessescary to be physically baptised in water. It is, however, nessescary to be baptized in the holy spirit. In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist says,”I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worth to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.” The act of water baptism is an open act of repentance for all to see. The baptism required for eternal life is simply that acceptance of Christ into your heart, and the baptism of the holy spirit that follows. I also don’t know anyone personally out of all my friends who think this is a divisive issue.
Regards,
Compgene
Gilbert Joseph
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 1:22pm:Hey Kent Hovind,
Our family continues to pray for you daily. We have enjoyed your Creation Seminars on video. I find that fasinating how God can use you in jail to share the messages with others!!! We are to take privilige to suffer on the count of Christ. Thanks for your Ministry to our family.
Maturekid
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 1:28pm:darling,
It is obvious this topic of taxation in the USA has you passionate. That is fine. But please read a key point in Jason’s posts. He is not making excuses. It also doesn’t mean you are automatically correct. In your statement: “Now, you can be 100% convinced in your own mind that tax law doesn’t apply to you.” It shows you are ignoring a very crucial detail in Jason’s posts.
Jason is from England. That is a different country. The United States of America tax laws DO NOT APPLY to someone who is a citizen in a different country. He’s freely stated he is not in a position to be fully knowledgable on USA tax laws when he isn’t from the USA. He’s from England.
So before you keep attacking him, slow down and read. Please, stop attacking. Picking on him doesn’t help your stance. Take your debate to one of the Tax Protester’s that you can find on the web and debate with them. Sheesh
Matthew,
You are being rude. Many of your points have already been refuted in plenty of locations on the web. One of the best I’ve found with minimal bias (hits both sides equally to a degree) is found here: http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/booklets/evolution/evolutn.html If you don’t want to read it, fine. If you do, take your time. It is lengthy and quite comprehensive. This is an ongoing debate between what amounts to conflicting hypotheses. Neither can be proven to be a theory, fact, or utter truth scientifically. Respected parties on both sides of the argument concur on this point. So kindly, please stop.
To answer your questions:
“Saying something in a rude and loud manner doesn’t make your opinion right?”
No, it doesn’t. It makes it seem more like a 2nd grade argument style of “I’m right, no I’m right.” Pointless and a waste of time.
“So, does the majority of people’s opinion make it right?”
No, it doesn’t. At a point in time, the majority thought the Earth was flat or the universe rotated around the Earth. There are plenty of examples throughout history.
Two other points I would like to make. Before you start trying to bad-mouth Christianity and those who believe in Creationism by using examples of people who have made bad choices, the same argument can be used against you. The worst bad-boy of the evolution camp is Adolf Hitler. Please check out “People’s Century / Master Race” from your local library and study history. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/peoplescentury/episodes/masterrace/ Ultimately, this argument style is also pointless and rather lacking as a debate method. (I was a Debate judge for the public schools.)
Next point, Taco is simply asking you to be polite, respectful and civil. Demeaning, rude and hostile conduct in any public forum or debate casts the individual in a negative light and makes them prone to be ignored. If you continue in your current conduct, I would recommend all to ignore you. I know I will.
Lastly, I would pose two questions to you Matthew. Are you a US citizen? If yes, go to the next question. If no, then this isn’t applicable to you. The foundations of the USA are based on the Declaration of Independence http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/ and the US Constitution http://www.ushistory.org/documents/constitution.htm. With that in mind, how do you square up your beliefs in evolution with the following statement from the Declaration of Independence? “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
If you fully believe in Evolution with the absence of a Creator, do you have any unalienable Rights?
But please act and respond with civility, politeness and respect. Whether a person agrees or disagrees on any concept posted here either in favor of or opposed to Kent Horvind, evolution, creationism, taxation, criminal charges, religion, or any other topic; it at least should be done in a respectful and civil tone.
ptljosh
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 1:36pm:I am glad that Kent does not focus on why he was send to jail by our courts. I am glad that his focus is on Jesus, the lover of our souls. It’s easy i’m sure in time’s like these to focus on the debate between not Paying Income Tax and why the courts are wrong and how the courts are wrong on and on and on(all of which I believe to be true). But that’s not his focus and i’m appreative that Kent spends his time talking about God’s kingdom and what there is to be done for HIM!!! I don’t know if you read these blogs Kent but we here in Michigan support you and are grateful that you stand up for Him no matter what happens to you. Time is short and you are only a precursor to what will be happening to all lover’s and follower’s of Jesus which will have nothing to do with tax’s or the like. Instead it will be hate crimes or whatever else they conjure up. Time indeed is short and the His church needs to prepare for the day’s ahead. Praise Him, the Author and Finisher of our Faith! Love you bro, Josh
p.s. We will be praying for you in your bonds
Isaiah
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 1:42pm:This passage is the proper passage for Kent Hovind:
Your iniquities have made a separation between you and God, and your sins have hid his face from you so that he does not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue mutters wickedness. No one enters suit justly, no one goes to law honestly; they rely on empty pleas, they speak lies, they conceive mischief and bring forth iniquity. They hatch adders’ eggs, they weave the spider’s web; he who eats their eggs dies, and from one which is crushed a viper is hatched. Their webs will not serve as clothing; men will not cover themselves with what they make. Their works are works of iniquity, and deeds of violence are in their hands. Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood; their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity, desolation and destruction are in their highways. The way of peace they know not, and there is no justice in their paths; they have made their roads crooked, no one who goes in them knows peace.
Isaiah 59:1–8
God will cast Kent Hovind into the Lake of Fire for all eternity and visit the sins of the father upon his sons unto the 7th generation.
Please do your best as a servant of the Dark One, to join he who rejects Our Lord as soon as possible. Your retirement at no insubstantial cost to the taxpayers of this Great Nation and your continued existence in this plane only shows that the Ultimate Wrath of God is not visited upon the godless evil often enough. You are evil incarnate and your world and all that you did in it was in service to Satan and your penance has yet to begin you evil, dark and traitorous fool of the Devil.
May you and your spawn suffer endlessly as is the Word of our Kind Lord.
ptljosh
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 1:47pm:I am glad that Kent does not focus on why he was send to jail by our courts. I am glad that his focus is on Jesus, the lover of our souls. It’s easy i’m sure in time’s like these to focus on the debate between not Paying Income Tax and why the courts are wrong and how the courts are wrong on and on and on(all of which I believe to be true). But that’s not his focus and i’m appreative that Kent spends his time talking about God’s kingdom and what there is to be done for HIM!!! I don’t know if you read these blogs Kent but we here in Michigan support you and are grateful that you stand up for Him no matter what happens to you. Time is short and you are only a precursor to what will be happening to all lover’s and follower’s of Jesus which will have nothing to do with tax’s or the like. Instead it will be hate crimes or whatever else they conjure up. Time indeed is short and the His church needs to prepare for the day’s ahead. Praise Him, the Author and Finisher of our Faith! Love you bro, Josh
p.s. We will be praying for you in your bonds
p.p.s. I tried posting this but I don’t see that it posted to here it goes again….
Gilbert Joseph
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 1:56pm:Hey Kent Hovind,
I never knew People, plants, animals. GREW that big back in Adam and Eve’s tiem. I find it fasinating that you were able to see that one iguana at your friend’s house and then he said he lost it and know it was about six foot!! WOW It is amazing what God creates!!
It is so sad to see the people that God has made Judge wrongfully It says in God’s Word: 2Tim. 4:2-5 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; to reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but have itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to truth and wander off into myths. As for you be soberminded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. I thank God for a wonderful Testimony you and you wife have been to go through all of this. God Bless your Ministry and Continue to remain in the word of God with a heart longing to do what he has for you to do. P.S. We saw Patch the Pirate at my sisters school he had a daugter also singing in the choir concert with my sister Jennie for a Christmas Program. We know you showed him on an illistration of how fairy tales are not true and how evolution seems to say they are by millions of years. We didn’t get to talk with him but we did see him. Thank You Mr. Hovind P.S. I have written to your brother Eric. He says you are doing fine.
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 2:06pm:KarlRichII
Said this at 7:18pm:
“Samphire, 1. how does the survival of ones soul depend on when/where someone was born? The gospel is all over the place. and even the places where the gospel isn’t preached, people there have a conscience that they sin against on a daily basis, they’ve earned their spot in hell.”
What a lovely god.
“And the scripture declares that if you seek God honestly and in a humble heart you will be found of him. Not if you seek religion, self-righteousness or a social club…”
According to the NT that is not sufficient; read Selena above – Muslims won’t get there, apparently. Not even those who are the most devout God-fearing ones. If God is the God of Love then you haven’t read the O.T.
“2. In your desire to slander Christians you’ve lumped anyone who names christ, obvious hypocrites included, into the same pot. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world (which throws out your little denomination comment, God knows who are His regardless of where they worship Christ)and that MANY will say in that day that they did much in His name and Jesus will rebuke them and say he never knew them.”
I have never slandered Christians. I grew up in a deeply Christian family so why would I.? So you, poor chap, don’t know if you are one of the chosen.
“Pointing out hypocrites means NOTHING for your argument. If I as a black man put on a white hood, it don’t mean I’m in the KKK! and if anyone (and I don’t care if it’s the pope) is naming Christs name and is found to be a worker of iniquity he’s obviously NOT in Christ, he’s in the flesh. The word says so…”
Absolutely, spot on. (by the way, would you be allowed in the KKK? If so, things are now definitely moving in my humanist direction. It really isn’t my sort of club, though. All those ugly red necks)
“3. How is God’s creation designed to deceive? If anything it’s designed to provoke interest and discovery and wherever you have that, you have differing viewpoints on the findings. in a sin-filled flesh-pleasing world it’s no wonder that the viewpoint that excludes a holy God who will hold us accountable for our actions would be the most popular.”
What does believing in an ancient Universe have to do with a ‘flesh-pleasing world’? How does not believing Mr.H’s young earth theories exclude a holy God? It all comes down to what the Bible means by “day”. I remind you that the Bible starts off “In the beginning…” not “At the beginning….”, a subtle but gigantic difference.
“4. PLEASE tell me what beliefs (better yet just name one), besides the word of some guy with initials behind his name endorsing it, make you so positive that the universe is old? Evolution of one kind of animal to another is not a fact it is a belief, a very popular belief, but then again so was slavery…”
Actually, slavery was a fact, not a belief. Slavery is not condemned in the Bible; in fact, the OT recommends it. Thank God that ethics moves on. As for some guy with initials behind his name I assume that are you not referring to Dr.Hovind Ph.D.?
“5. Kent in his speeches has already addressed the “kind” issue… God never said species, sub-species or any of that junk. Plus, you meantion all these beetles and yadda yadda, bad argument champ, god said all the animals in whose NOSTRILS is the breath of life and all which move upon the earth, insects breath through their skin so they didnt have to go so who knows how many beetles there were originally.”
So how did the beetles survive? I suggest that you re-read Genesis. God declared that ALL animal life would be destroyed. Bad argument champ unless, of course, God changed his mind and they survived by clinging to flotsam and didn’t tell the Bible writers. My observation of beetles falling into my swimming pool is that they don’t last the night.
”6. I’m sure that if you read this you will make up in your mind that I am an un-educated tool that serves an imaginary God out of fear. feel free to believe that, because unless you know God (this goes for church folks too)then you will always think in the back of your mind that maybe there is no God, maybe it’s all imaginary, blah, blah, blah… but I challenge you to take God at his word, read the bible in an honest heart and ask God to manifest himself to you…. or continue believing that religion is for the weak/dumb or whatever your choice of agnostic opiate is and follow your flesh to damnation.”
Certainly, fundamentalist beliefs create a certain mindset or vice versa. Do you detect the irony between your last sentence and the following benediction; probably not.
”peace and love, Karl”
Kind regards
Jason
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 4:13pm:Hi Darling,
I’m sorry I’ve not felt adequate to meet your challenge, I did say (Dec 7th Post above) that it is shaky commenting upon the tax system of another country, so I made my comments based upon the work of others to whom it appears that adequate research has been made. As it appears you also have done.
I fully understand your avoidance of actually opening up your challenge up to anyone else, to people who would actually know what they are talking about. People for instance, who could have (possibly) worked within the system i.e. the IRS. That’s OK, I wouldn’t be foolish enough to open up a challenge like that either.
If there is a floor in Mr. Conklin’s challenge, I’m sorry. Maybe I should have just stuck to the other challenges, I mentioned. Dec 8th.
Yes you are right, about excuses, I made my excuse on Dec 7th (the shaky comment) before you made any challenge to me. I won’t ask you for an excuse as to why you wont open up your challenge to all others, without small print or tricky language, as I have already just explained that I understand your difficulties.
shall we move on?
I asked some other questions in my last post…
_____________________________________________
Why is it that the job of printing money in America is given to a privately owned monopoly called “The Federal Reserve”?
Why isn’t the money being printed by the US Treasury?
Here is an interesting document web page http://www.federalobserver.com/print.php?aid=254
_____________________________________________
Do you have any comments?
I noticed the post by, JR Turner Dec 8th.
Many many quotes, (Thank you JR), so we don’t have to argue again about the validity of your Tax System lets just ignore all the quotes you don’t like.
one that I did overlook until now was this one…
____________________________________________________
o “100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt … all individual in-come tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government”
o -Grace Commission report submitted to President Ronald Reagan on January 15, 1984
____________________________________________________
I wondered if you had any thoughts as to whether you think there is anything untoward going on?
Again in the hope of finding the truth together as friends not enemies
Jason x
Georgio
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 4:24pm:Dear Seaducer!
I am NOT trying to protect KH, but may I please ask you a simple question?
Would you be so kind as to explain me, in what way would it effect your level satisfaction and/or happiness, if he stayed there, for as long as 1, 2, 7 or -say- 50 years?
IMHO it would add a whole lot more to my joy, if I knew more murderers, rapists, war criminals etc. were behind bars.
But this is just my opinion…
Greetings from Hungary, Europe!
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 5:28pm:mfox
Said this at 8:55am:
“Roborat,
Please pardon my delay. Your objection as to the age of the universe is of foundational importance to the debate. Let me try to clarify my scientific perspective on time.
Any human attempt to hang an absolute age on the universe is preposterous. Scientific grounds for any such claim are inherently biased and at best arbitrary. This is so because time has been shown to be not absolute but rather relative. It is relative to at least two variables; speed and gravity (time dilation). The closer to the speed of light one travels the less time elapses, likewise, the stronger the field of gravity the less time that elapses. These are both verified experimentally. Is it not obvious no absolute time can be assigned?
Let’s suppose, just for fun, that the Big Bang Theory is accurate. By the very predictions of the theory, speeds approach the speed of light as we get closer and closer to the bang. Also predicted by the theory, gravitational field strengths approach infinity as we get closer and closer to the bang, as individual models very so would ages of the universe. These predicted ages would be as if you actually lived through the formation of the universe. There are models consistent with Big Bang Theory which predict formation ages as short as days; this would be days experienced by someone who was actually present during the formation of the universe, Jesus for example. You may claim this to be science fiction but remember, it is your theory.”
Erm, Mfox, (notwithstanding that Herr Webmeister censored my earlier humorously affectionate but slightly satirical reply – the silly arse!) may I wish you the compliments of the season.
OK, near the Big Bang speeds approached the speed of light. But how close?
We, on Earth, are not equipped mentally to deal with objects traveling somewhere near the speed of light.
Please note that it is not my theory but yours that Jesus may have been present during the formation of the Universe – a concept which I have great trouble in accepting as in any way meaningful, rational or relevant. I do not accept that Jesus was present even at his own purported Biblical birth anymore than Poseiden or Zeus were present at theirs! However, if you have read “A Brief History of Time” you will remember there is a graph of time measured along the x-axis (I do not have the book to hand so cannot give you a page reference) which mirrors much of what you have to say. In fact, it does not end in a singularity, a point which Prof Hawkins seems to have missed (or perhaps it was me so I apologise with great humility in advance), but is a smooth curve about the origin. In other words, perhaps time never commenced – it always existed. However, I admit that I no more understand Prof.H’s theories on cosmology than I do Mr.H’s on U.S taxation laws.
Biblical “days” have nothing to do with the discussion in so far as they represent a time measurement not equal to Earth time. A day can only be defined after the event of the Earth being created as a body circulating a previously created Sun. To try to measure time in terms of “days” before the Earth/Sun relationship commenced is meaningless.
I do not understand what you mean by “formation ages”. Please explain.
‘It is also germane to note that Biblical descriptions of the formation of the universe are consistent with the phenomenon of time dilation.”
Chapter and verse, please.
seaducer
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 6:04pm:Hi Georgio,
It would make me happy to know that people who cheat and fraud others and violate the laws we supposedly live under have to serve their time in prison. Too often high profile people with resources like Hovind’s go unpunished.
Maturekid,
While you are looking up historical documents, make sure and look up the Treaty of Tripoli, here…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli
in case no one wants to go there, here is the important part-
“”As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
Approved by John Adams, who if memory serves was a Founding Father…
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 6:24pm:taco
Said this at 8:41am:
“MATTHEW AND SAMPHIRE
To those that will listen, lend and ear!
Without going into a long debate on evolution may I suggest that neither side can prove their point. My beliefs and YOURS are based in faith. We use faith in everyday life; sitting in a chair takes faith.”
Not round here it doesn’t If I tried to sit in a chair that wasn’t there then that would take faith. A lot of faith. Indeed, a whole tenth of a seconds worth until my backside’s contact with the floor convinced me to rely not on faith but on a rational belief in real chairs.
“You must put your trust in a chair and hope it will hold up. Our beliefs in life mirror this type of faith. My belief that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light are grounded in faith.”
Belief and faith, faith and belief. You could just have well written “My faith that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light are grounded in belief”. Utterly and equally meaningless.
“Belief in a great flood and that the bible recorded it accurately are based in faith. BELIEF in evolution is grounded in FAITH that the scientist got it right.”
Except for the fact that there is no evidence for the Flood and an enormous weight of evidence for the fact of evolution. If only you guys would actually do a bit of reading around the subject.
“My point all along with respects to Matthew and Samphire is that there is a way to go about getting your point across. Saying something in a rude and loud manner doesnt make your opinion right. Bullies are usually the loud, crude, self centered ones that act this way and most people just smile and try and stay away from them. Being that this is a board of opinions I respect everyone here. Its a shame that some cant!”
I don’t think that I have been rude. If so, I apologise. As I have said before, read the heading at the top of this Weblog. If you don’t like a robust discussion why are you here? But as you say, you respect everyone here – including me?
“Signed, One more opinion
ps. The GOD you MOCK is the GOD you’ll meet! WALK IN LOVE”
I haven’t mocked anyone’s God – unless it is that unpleasant petulant fellow which the OT promotes as God but who appears to have few defenders on this webpage. Those who post here usually speak of the God of the NT – a different kettle of fish altogether.
And don’t be so arrogant as to remind me how to walk. Do YOU actually TALK that WAY? Yes, you probably do, taco. You see, I can’t walk at all since I lost both my legs. It was entirely my own fault. I’m just very, very careless. I’ve never told anybody about it before tonight. And it is so embarrassing. Especially at Christmas. My unimaginative wife and children always buy me socks for presents and now that I have three hundred unused pairs stuffed inside my trouser legs I hate to tell them that I haven’t needed them these past fifteen years. I just wish I had more support. Hey, that faith chair over there looks just the ticket to take the weight off my stumps. Ouch! Ah, well, you’ve gotta larf. Help me up, somebody.
WeinerTd
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 6:30pm:Dear Brethren,
I am a Jewish Christain who has enjoyed Kent’s Creation Series. My children and I have watched them probably,literally, a hundred times. I think he is the most interesting of all the creation speakers and I love the way he combined standard creation proofs with exhortations for godly living, anti-sports idolatry, modest dress and evangelism, excellecant combo! I came to the Lord through Christian proofs as a teen and am now an experienced public debater and I started a Ministry called Messianic Apologetics. Kent ministry was an inspiration to me to start a seminar on comparative world religions.
I said all this to let you know I am on your side. But I was disappointed in Kent’s tax stand. Ive had Christians in my church present this to me 20 years ago. Not ever having the time to study it out to its very end, I don’t know technially who is right on this, though I would guess Burkett’s overview of it is correct. But it is irrevelant. For even if Kent was right, he was wrong in my opinoin and here is why. Though Jesus and the disciples were exempt from paying taxes being “sons of the kingdom” Jesus said to go pay your taxes “lest they be offended.” Would it be fair to say the goverment is offended at those who don’t pay their taxes? Read all the comments of the non-believers who are saying that “we have to pay taxes why shouldn’t he!” They are certainly offended and are using this whole incident to discredit the good Kent has done. It doesn’t appear much wisdom was used in the whole matter. Satan is using it to take people’s eyes off the eternal truth of Kent’s message and put it on temporal matters that won’t mean anything at all come judgement day. Anyway, please accept this adomintion in the spirit it was intended, with love and concern. I would like to write Kent on this matter can anyone give me his address?
Sincerely in the Messiah,
Todd
Samphire
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 8:13pm:Hey Isaiah,
You need help. The guy has been arrogant and very stupid but it’s only money he has stolen. A few years in jug will suffice rather than eternal fire and damnation. I suggest you take a couple of days off work, have a couple of beers, relax, go for a long walk and then have some radical brain surgery. That should fix it. But, afterwards, you might have to go to a different hat size.
Come and see me at my open-air clinic just behind the council’s recycling collection depot. I’m not qualified in brain surgery but I’m sure I can find some relevant scriptures to quote at you ad nauseam while I’m sawing off the top of your skull. All you need is faith in my abilities. You need the faith because I don’t have the abilities.
Toodle-ooh.
Matthew
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 10:09pm:MatureKid,
Apparently, you cannot provide me with evidence that evolution si false without saying go here and explaining it in your own words. Do you want to me stop because you afraid of the truth?
The worst bad-boy of the evolution camp is Adolf Hitler? Wrong, Hitler was Christian and he believed what he was doing in the name of God. Where does Hitler talk about evolution?
You think I’m mean, take a look at Seaducer’s and Isaiahs’ comments.
No, I’m Canadian and what does the Declaration of Independence with creationism?
Again, I ask can’t God use evolution to create beings? Can I say God did it with evolution?
If you can’t take the heat, get out of the debate.
cstministries
Said this on December 11th, 2006 at 10:48pm:Samphire,
I’ve been reading all of your posts. The fact is we all have the free will to believe what we want to.
We can sit in front of our keyboards debating back and forth, but we all can’t be right. Did you ever wonder if maybe, we (Christians) aren’t just babbling mindlessly. What if we are right? The Bible says those who sincerely seek the truth will find it. Here’s the thing…when you find it, you KNOW it beyond a doubt. That’s why Christians are perceived as self-righteous and pushy. That’s really not it at all. We just know that we know that we know. I hate to argue with people like this. I’m not in a contest to win an argument, nor do I get pride out of debating the issue. In fact, most of us are scared to death to share our faith with others because of the criticism we often get. But we do it not because we want to be right, but becasue we care about everyone. It’s not about being right. We just want others to know what we know. The experience of discovering truth is what the bible calls being born again. A power sweeps over you and your life is instantly changed forever. At that moment, you just know. Christians all over the world know what happens first-hand. We don’t have to read it or compare notes. We all know because the same thing happened to us all. Think about that. Seek and you shall find. Open your heart and challenge God to show you what we know. Not becasue I want to be right, but because I want everyone to experience the love and power of a real creator capable of creating a universe by simply saying “Let there be…” Uni-single, verse-spoken sentence.
The fact is, I can’t prove creation, and you can’t prove evolution. But a bible written thousands of years ago describes the events of today with complete accuracy. Must be supernatural. So maybe you think that’s just coincidence. Ok, so look at all of the prophecies yet to be fulfilled. Educate yourself and watch as they happen before your eyes. Find out why many former athiests such as Lee Strobel committed himself to proving the bible wrong and became a Christian because of its accuracy in both science and prophecy. And how about the thousands of fully credentialled scientists that have converted because they simply can’t continue disputing the scientific accuracy. Here’s just a few links to hundreds of them:
http://www.icr.org/research/index/research_creationsci/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/45/63/
And new scientists are added to these lists constantly. Forget me. To most people out there, I’m a nobody. But for so many fully credentialled scientists to adopt this view…they must know something.
Do you KNOW FOR A FACT there is no God? Do you KNOW FOR A FACT the Bible is not the inerrant word of God? Do you KNOW FOR A FACT that we don’t know what we’re talking about? The obvious answer to all of those questions is no. You can’t know. So maybe there is a God. And maybe the Bible is the work of God. Maybe all of those scientists on the lists are right. You could ask the same questions from your side, but our answers are different. Not because we’re mindlessly brainwashed and immovable on an opinion. But because there is a God that is supernatural and reveals truth. That’s why WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW.
Go ahead and say what you want in response. All I ask is that next time you’re alone with your thoughts, PLEASE ask yourself “WHAT IF…?”
iago9067
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 12:37am:geno u r confused He ask peter what r u thinking then told him to pay it so he wouldnt be a liar then he said render on to ceaser what is ceasers NOT give to the central bankers what is the peoples
u r sadly ignorant if u would like to learn something watch AMERICA freedom to fascism. and if u dont want to learn about the non existant tax law u shouldnt talk and run down some one who will stand up for what they believe in u should also get a copy of the constitution and maybe study that for a little bit and see how many times the tax code goes against it .
because of people like u we r losing more rights every day so please get informed before u talk. the Bible says to study to show thy self approved .
so get in there and find me the law that kent is even liable cause there aint one
we r praying for u kent
ravenwolf
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 8:56am:Dear EVERYONE,
2 Opinions 21:7 (BOGW – Book of General Wisdom):
It takes two to tango.
2 Opinions 40:2 (BOGW):
Arguing in a blog is like arguing with the wind.
Matthew 7:7,14 (KJV):
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
1) http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Total+Onslaught+%23
2) http://www.worldslastchance.com
3) http://www.sabbathtruth.com
4) http://www.remnantofgod.org
5) http://www.amazingdiscoveries.com
6) http://www.amazingfacts.com
We are ALL deceived! Find out the truth!
Revelation 12:9 (KJV):
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Note the “DECEIVETH THE WHOLE WORLD”. That includes you, me and your uncle John. Open your eyes to the truth.
In Christ’s service,
ravenwolf
darling
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 9:11am:Maturekid, I do understand Jason is from England. That doesn’t, however, give him a free pass.
If Jason wants to make an argument (that failure to collect Conklin’s/ Mottahedeh’/Schiff’s offer means that there is some merit to Conklin’s/ Mottahedeh’/Schiff’s assertions) then he has to defend it.
I’ve been trying show that Jason’s claim that “there is nothing like a substantial reward to get the truth discovered” is bogus. It is bogus because I could offer a million dollars to anybody who can prove – to my satisfaction – that the sky is blue, and nobody could win.
Therefore, according to Jason’s logic, I have proven the sky is not blue.
Tax law doesn’t even come into it
Now, instead of actually addressing my point – that these rewards are unwinnable by definition. Jason is making excuses, waving his hands, changing the subject and generally avoiding the issue.
________________________________________
Jason, it’s hard to have a dialogue if you won’t read what I say. Once again, you are free to consult with whoever you want. If you think someone who used to work for the IRS will help you, call them. If you think Mr. Conklin will help you, email him. If you think Mr. Schiff can help you, write to him in jail. If you win the money you can split it however you want. You can keep it all for yourself, you can give it all away to charity.
Would an offer of one million dollars be enough for you to actually do something? Or do you know in your heart that you’re never going to see a penny, no matter who you talk to?
Of course, you *can’t* win the money – that’s my point. I am the judge and jury, and if I say you don’t win, you don’t win. That’s exactly how Mr. Conklin keeps his money, that’s how Mr. Mottahedeh keeps his money, and that’s how Mr. Schiff keeps his money.
——-
Let’s see, what else?
Operations of the Federal Reserve are controlled through law, regulations and policy set by Congress, and overseen by a seven-member Board of Governors who are appointed by (and answerable to) the president.
No private entity has any say in how the Fed is run, and Congress can abolish the Fed at any time.
Does that sound like a private monopoly to you?
Give me the full Grace Commission quote, in context, and we’ll talk. It doesn’t say what you think it says – much like the rest of JR Turner’s quotes.
(Here’s a clue – it’s not talking about 100% of 100%, it’s talking about 100% of a particular fraction.
You get bonus points if you figure out how I will tie it in to Mr. Hovind.)
Or, you might not want to bother. What the government does with money is completely irrelevant to whether it has the ability to tax.
bionicduck
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 11:30am:It’s kinda funny that since Kent Hovind is in jail and cannot defend himself that this website has become real busy. Where were you all when this man had the chance to blow you all out of the water with logic, common sense, and real science? I think this is hillarious that scoffers can really come out of the woodwork when the lights are off…..or is that cockroaches! Sorry if I offended anyone, but I guess that is what being salty does to a guy when he sees this level of ridiculous one-sided attacks happen to a man in jail standing up for what he believes. He has openly challenged you all in the public…..where were you then?
Goto our site to see all of Kents stuff as well as Ron Wyatts discoveries. Also a ton of stuff on the New World Order and Taxes if you decide to take the Red Pill. http://www.feasteternal.com
lwilkinson
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 12:47pm:I was sort of hoping that someone would respond to my note on the 9th with some information. Even a web-link would be good. Thanks!
Leanne
Matthew
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 1:31pm:Where were you all when this man had the chance to blow you all out of the water with logic, common sense, and real science?
Kent Hoivnd never published those comments to his post, either he was busy or he did not want people to hear the other side.
Sammy
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 1:44pm:Matthew,
In my opinion, he was purely evil. Was he a Christian?
Absolutely NOT! He worshipped himself-not the CREATOR.
13th December, 1941, midnight..(public speech) Adolf Hitler said…
“Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery…. ….
“When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.”
21st October, 1941, midday
“Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer….
“The decisive falsification of Jesus’ doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work… for the purposes of personal exploitation….
“Didn’t the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it’s in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea.”
10th October, 1941, midday
“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.”
source: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” (purely evil, sick!!)
more here : http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html
One thing, please stop bashing and those rude remarks. It’s not going to help you but would send a message to readers that you are just a junior highschool kid who didn’t get his/her way.
Merry Christmas to you, Matty.
Jason
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 1:49pm:Hi Darling,
You have once again shown me my lack of knowledge of another countries, law or Tax System, I suppose you are right about the difficulties of having a dialog when the other person is not listening.
You say to me, “meet my challenge, the challenge is only open to you & you can only win it if I say you can”.
I say to you, I can see your criticism of a challenge of such a nature (tricky language) winning depends upon the satisfaction of the one to whom is giving the challenge, (I can see this in the Conklin challenge, sorry) even if it is, as you say, & for the sake of the argument, lets just say it is in the other challenges, I will concede this to being true without actually seeing it myself, but yes I do concede, it is irrelevant.
Darling, you are just too good for me, I cannot compete with your vast knowledge. I’m just out classed, even if you were to offer a legitimate challenge one without any tricky language, I just wouldn’t have the knowledge and skills to get the money no matter how much you offered. You have won me on this point ok!
Well done you have out beaten in a debate someone who from the outset stated their comments were shaky. Your challenge by your own admission was safe, but just to make sure you kept it doubly safe by limiting it to one person, *me* the shaky one. You’ve shown me (alone!) how much conviction you have to your beliefs, you can sleep soundly tonight, safe in the knowledge the Brit has been beaten, so please go back to sleep, everything is OK, watch Fox news the government is your friend.
I’m still not personally convinced the Tax protesters are wrong, the burden of proof is on the state to demonstrate it’s absolute transparency in law. The burden of proof is not upon the one who questions looking for answers.
I’m sure now you will say “But I’ve already demonstrated, & you haven’t listened”, & I will then say “But I’m not qualified to know whether your answer actually does answer all the questions raised by the Tax Protesters”. We once more revolve around in an endless pointless argument like ships in the night, One which I’m happy to withdraw from, “with my reservations” and concede to your greater will to persist. I’m sorry……
_______________________________________
Kent,
I still wish you well and admire your will to suffer for what you believe in, I know you in your heart want to set people free. I will continue to support your cause.
With all best wishes for the best Christmas everyone could have,
Jason x
Maturekid
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 2:18pm:Matthew,
Am I afraid of the truth? Not your version of it. Not at all. It is easily torn to shreds.
Can I take the heat? Easily. I’m respecting the other posters though and don’t want to waste server space and their time rebutting your claims.
I did look at Seaducer’s and Isaiah’s comments. They are mean-spirited and unnecessary. And it marks about the only thing I’d agree with Samphire on. Isaiah needs a chill pill.
For the fun of it, I did craft a reply to your questions. However, it is 3 pages long in MS Word. To quote ravenwolf “2 Opinions 40:2 (BOGW): Arguing in a blog is like arguing with the wind.” If you want it, I’ll email it to you. If not, let it drop and just treat others with respect. Comments of “If you can’t take the heat, get out of the debate.” are just antagonistic drivel.
As for Seaducer’s attempt and your questions on the Declaration of Independence. I’ll refer you to basic English definitions. In the DoI, the word Creator is capitalized making it a proper noun of a person, place, thing or entity. It doesn’t infer religious intent save to those religions that believe in a Creator – capital C. Hence a Creator (proper noun) created all men per the line in the DoI. Evolution by its naturalistic definition does not permit room for a Creator – a supernatural entity. The question would still stand, but you are from Canada. Moot point then.
Now, back to the standing request to all. Say what you will say but do so respectfully and politely. That isn’t that much to ask. So darling, Isaiah, Matthew, et al, take a chill pill and be nice. Don’t make me have my 5 yr old read her “Be Nice” muppet book to you!!
——————————————————————
Matthew
Said this at 10:09pm:
MatureKid,
Apparently, you cannot provide me with evidence that evolution si false without saying go here and explaining it in your own words. Do you want to me stop because you afraid of the truth?
The worst bad-boy of the evolution camp is Adolf Hitler? Wrong, Hitler was Christian and he believed what he was doing in the name of God. Where does Hitler talk about evolution?
You think I’m mean, take a look at Seaducer’s and Isaiahs’ comments.
No, I’m Canadian and what does the Declaration of Independence with creationism?
Again, I ask can’t God use evolution to create beings? Can I say God did it with evolution?
If you can’t take the heat, get out of the debate.
Isaiah
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 3:49pm:Samphire says, “The guy has been arrogant and very stupid but it’s only money he has stolen…”
The ONLY place in the entire Bible where the Lord’s Word is reported directly is by the Decalogue – the Ten Commandments to you – and the Lord’s own penalty for violation of any of those commandments is DEATH.
Samphire cannot substitute his/her wishes for the Living Word of the Lord. Kent Hovind has taken the Lord’s name in vain, stolen, lied and clearly nobody who proclaims and practices Christianity could violate three of The Commandments. Hovind’s fate is sealed and the Dark One seduced the weak-minded sinner into doing his Evil Bidding.
Now, about that meeting out back for brain surgery – I’d be happy to do just that – except you might want to think really, really hard about what I could do to you. I guess the question comes down to veiled threat and veiled defense. I do know one thing – while the Lord is at my side – I know how to take care of myself. I shall trample all who trespass against me.
Come to think of it – isn’t Samphire some kind of grape? Perhaps a vintage known for its wrath? The Devil has taken the Hovind – let us hope and pray that you are not as easily seduced by the one first cast into the lake of fire.
Praise the Lord and send the Hovind to He who will Judge us All (the sooner, the better).
Millerfamily6
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 4:13pm:Dear Mr. Samphire:
I may be boldly presumptous here; forgive me if I am wrong, but I detect bitterness in your heart if you are writing the truth. Since we don’t know you and what kind of person you truly are, we as Christians, assume the best of you until proven otherwise. I’m sorry for your bitterness and whatever happened to you to cause you to stumble over faith in the One, true, Holy God. What type of Christian home were you raised in if I may be so bold to ask?
In your previous response to me you spoke of the Apostle Paul thinking he was in the last days, and yes, you are right; according to Hebrews, “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these LAST DAYS spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high…” So, we are living in the last days, and sure enough the Bible says that we Christians can know the nearness of His coming by discerning the signs of the times. You know, the Lord Jesus rebuked the religious leaders of the Jews for not discerning the time of His first coming. He has given us knowledge through His written word. And when you believe, He begins to teach you glorious truths and you begin to have understanding of all these seemingly contradictory/paradoxical situations in the Bible. Everything is in His timing, Mr. Samphire.
On another matter, you speak of the NT God vs. the OT God. He is one and the same. He just dispenses His grace and mercy via the New Testament, a new and better covenant with the peoples of the earth, which is through the shed blood of His sinless Son, which was poured out for you, Mr. Samphire, so that you don’t go to the real place called hell, created for the devil and the rebellious angels that followed him. I fear for you in the day of judgement, Mr. Samphire, as you so arrogantly mock the Lord of both the OT and NT! However, in this day and time it is apparent that the Lord Jesus is longsuffering with you and giving you chance after chance to repent and believe on Him.
I would ask that you take a read at this site:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0096/0096_01.asp
Oh, and in regards to becoming like a child; I meant in order to believe you must become as a child at heart (unquestioning trust of a little child), not doing the things of a child or acting like a child; I fear someone has ruined that part of you, Sir. Of course, as we become men and women, we are to put away childish behaviour, as you so correctly quoted of the beloved Apostle Paul.
Here is one more thing I’d like to share with you: http://www.preservedwords.com/dispen1a.htm
Sincerely,
Millerfamily6
Amen! CSTministries. God bless you:0)
Samphire
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 5:01pm:Actually, Duck, he hardly ever updated the thing. The present guy is doing a good job. You may also be unaware that Mr.H. is pathologically averse to written debate. From Panda’s Thumb website:
“How about with the fact that Dr. Hovind will never participate in a written debate, despite being challenged to do so, numerous times? You see, Hovind’s debate tactic is to throw out hundreds of little “facts” with the assurance that his opponents won’t have the time to counter all of his nonsense and have the debate audience remain awake. You do know, I hope, that most of these debates have rather short time limits, and that Hovind speaks quickly, which lets him spew a lot of junk. This practice is often refered to as the “Gish Gallop,” after Duane Gish, another creationist who would “win” debates in this fashion.
Instead, most “evolutionists” (as if there is such a thing) would prefer a debate in writing, where every assertion can be checked and double-checked, and rebutted in detail. And, of course, the prefered location for such a debate would be the pages of a scientific journal, since Hovind claims to have science on his side, but a Web forum such as ours would do almost as well. He’s been challenged numerous times to written debates, and he refuses to engage in them. Even though he could participate from the comfort of his own home, rather than interrupt his busy lecture schedule. His refusal is probably because the “Gish Gallop” doesn’t have the proper rhetorical effect in such a format.”
The evidence for my allegation taken from http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/showquestion.asp?faq=7&fld is the following email from Mr.H.
To: Tommy Huxley
“From: Dr. Kent Hovind
Date: August 6, 2001
I don’t have time to answer all the email I get in writing but I will
still take a call if you are a seeker of truth. Feel free to record
the call and transcribe it if you make no changes. KH”
Logic, common sense and real science are not the hallmark of the delusional Mr.H. That is why he is in jail. Note that in the quoted email he even entitles himself “Dr.”.
Ron Wyatt was the king of conmen. But that is not news. Everything he “discovered” such as Egyptian chariot wheels, Jesus’s blood and the Ark of the Covenant were immediately stolen or mislaid. Either Ron was very security unconscious or, perhaps, he was just a bare-faced liar. Those of a naive and Hovindian disposition will go for the first option. Those of us who are more acquainted with the real world will vote for the second.
If you go to the Wyatt Museum website you will read the following: “It is a proven fact that unique sulfur or brimstone, found nowhere on earth, is found at the sites determined by Ron Wyatt to be Sodom and Gomorrah and the Cities of the Plain.” Ten days ago I was sitting at a kitchen table in France while a German friend showed me photographs he had recently taken of extensive and beautiful volcanic sulphur deposits in Ethiopia from where he had returned only two weeks earlier. To the best of my knowledge neither Sodom nor Gomorrah is in Ethiopia. So much for “proven facts”.
On taxes, if your view prevailed and no-one paid their federal taxes the Army would quickly be sacked by the Government for lack of funds to pay it. The US would then soon be invaded by Canada from the North, Mexico from the South (oh, sorry – it already has been), Iceland from the East and New Caledonia from the West. So it wouldn’t all be bad news.
I like your website – a great parody. Your group’s drummer, though, needs more vowels in his surname before he could be allowed to enter polite society.
Millerfamily6
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 5:53pm:Mr. Isaiah,
And you are a follower of the Lord Jesus, sir? I believe you have mistaken Mr. Kent Hovind for someone else, for that is not the man that I know and am aquainted with. I don’t believe your discernment factor is working, sir, and it appears, that you belong to the Dark One or either, you have a lot of learning to do from the Kind Lord Jesus you claim to follow. Those words you just spewed forth are vile and of the devil; followers of the Lord Jesus Christ are not to speak to nor about the brethren in such a manner! I am appalled that you call yourself a Christian:0(
Edman Family
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 6:25pm:Dearest Dr. Hovind,
I couldn’t stop crying as I read that you are in prison. Though we know that God is using you to reach many of the untouchables with the gifts that God has given you, we are saddened by the news! Our hearts are overflowing with disbelief and grief and at the same time with much love for you!!!! God has blessed many of us through your ministry. We believe in you and stand by you in your battle. We know governments can and will continue to persecute their people and that they intentionally try to silence those that stand up for the truth; God’s truth! You are in our prayers! We love you! We support you! Edman Family
jproverbs3_5
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 7:50pm:To JR Turner,
I can only speak for myself but when you post 1,000 word messages, I skip right over. I’m sure there are others who feel the same way. Who has time to read all that?
Christian Soldier
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 8:03pm:Ravenwolf:
I’m not deceived, because I am no longer of this world.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
But then you are a sabbatarian, no wonder you don’t know.
Christian Soldier
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 8:07pm:Matthew
Are you a Roman Catholic?
Christian Soldier
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 8:11pm:Samphire
Why are you wasting your time here? I mean if there’s only this life do you have time to spend on this?
How about “living your life”?
True atheists and agnostics don’t have time to spend on Christians. I never had back in the day when I
was being brainwashed in the socialist schools of my nation to believe something that is not fact as fact,
the evolution trash.
Btw those Christian parents of yours what denomination where they?
prewrathx
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 8:18pm:Dear Seaducer,
I just wanted to let you know that I am praying for you and everyone else who doesn’t know Jesus yet. I pray that you accept that you are a sinner and that you need Jesus’ death on the cross to pay for your sins. I also pray that you eventually see the truth in Dr Hovinds ministries for the Lord. His main goal truly is to get people saved whether you like it or not. So It’s your choice. You can reject it or accept it, but it’s up to God after that.
In Jesus Name
Tyler
iago9067
Said this on December 12th, 2006 at 10:32pm:darling just end this and show us the law cmon
fldastate
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 1:24am:To Bionicduck:
I read this blog everyday and have not posted recently because no matter how wrong a person may be they will never change their point of view. So I’ve chosen not to argue with people who are incapable of reason. However, when someone posts something this uninformed I have to respond. The reason you never saw negative comments while “Dr.” Hovind was out of jail is because he screened all the comments and only posted the ones which were in line with his point of view. I submitted a scathing review of the whole building permit situation and he never posted my comment.
Why do you think he keeps the site from immediately posting blog comments? Have you noticed the delay? This was so he could review them and only post the ones he wanted. The person running this blog while he’s in jail is allowing postings of all opinions and I have to say the site is much more interesting now.
Just to let you know all the “scoffers…coming out of the woodwork” were always here, but Hovind refused to “blow us out of the water with logic”. Doesn’t appear like he wants to “openly challenge all of us in public”.
So before you post another comment I suggest you pull your head out of [edited] and take a look around for a change. Fresh air can do wonders for your brain.
Samphire
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 7:51am:cstministries
Said this at 10:48pm:
You wrote “The fact is we all have the free will to believe what we want to.”
I am not sure that that is necessarily true. Certainly, I may think that I have the freedom to believe what I believe but if you read the message boards of those who have managed to escape from various religions and cults you get a different picture. As for somebody growing up in a tribal village in, say, Saudi Arabia, I think it is debatable as to whether they have either the free will or societal freedom to believe what they want. Indeed, for such people brought up in a very narrow and restricted culture and religion does the phrase “what we want to” have any practical meaning? Do you believe that the children growing up in the Hovind household really had freedom to believe what they might have believed had they had a proper mainstream education rather than 20 years of being immersed in the thin milk of creationism? Soak a piece of wood long enough and you can bend it pretty much to whatever shape you like.
Living in the Western world I am more fortunate than most in that I live in a liberal environment in which I am free to believe anything I wish without sanction. David Icke of whom I assume you have heard lives a few miles down the road from me and has a similar freedom. We have very different belief systems. They cannot both be right and therefore one of us (perhaps both) is clearly delusional. One of us has free will and the other a mental illness. But which one is which?
I also have the benefit of both time and a little spare money to be able to afford to read whatever in the world I wish – not to mention a desire to continue to learn. This is not necessarily true of an indigenous resident of the Arab states. I have read that Spain translates more books into Spanish each year than the Arab world has translated into Arabic since the ninth century. If this is true, can it be said that the Arab has the same free will as a Spaniard? I might be the fastest runner in the world but without a pair of running shoes to protect my feet what value would such a talent have?
Even though I may personally think that I have the freedom to believe what I wish to believe is that necessarily true? I am as much a product of my background and education as anyone else is of theirs. Perhaps I can no more think for myself than can a marsh Arab. I may have more knowledge in some subjects than Mr.Ali but so what? Whatever I know it is only a pathetic unmeasurably small proportion of all that there is to be known. It is because I recognise this fact that I find it difficult to relate to the mindset (with the emphasis on ’set’) of those who at a tender age decide that here is only one version of the truth. There well may be but what is certain is that a sixteen year old kid cannot “know” it.
So I don’t necessarily accept that we all or, indeed, any of us have free will and, if we do, perhaps some have more free will than others. However, admitting my ignorance, I am happy to take instruction from anyone out there with a better philosophical understanding of such issues.
You wrote: We can sit in front of our keyboards debating back and forth, but we all can’t be right. Did you ever wonder if maybe, we (Christians) aren’t just babbling mindlessly. What if we are right? The Bible says those who sincerely seek the truth will find it. Here’s the thing…when you find it, you KNOW it beyond a doubt.”
There you go – you have achieved your mindset. We might now just as well burn all the books except the Bible – and hymn books. Even a sinner such as I loves to sing hymns around the house. And please, no facile recital of biblical texts concerning wise fools in response from any of those readers inclined to do so. “For those who do not believe, the banal recital of ancient texts is as the raving of parrots and the parroting of ravens”. Book of Samphire 3:5.
You wrote: “That’s why Christians are perceived as self-righteous and pushy. That’s really not it at all. We just know that we know that we know. I hate to argue with people like this. I’m not in a contest to win an argument, nor do I get pride out of debating the issue. In fact, most of us are scared to death to share our faith with others because of the criticism we often get. ”
I am not not one of those who has the seething, foam-flecked detestation that large sections of U.S. society feel towards Christians and their faith. However, I do worry about the possible self-fulfilling effects that end-times theology and YE Creationism has on the American political process. It is starting to come over to England and I don’t want it here. I was snoozing on my sofa the other evening and woke up to find Blair and Bush at some press conference or other. Bush seemed unable to string two words together and looked to Blair to speak with any fluency. Blair looked as embarrassed as any politician could be – and it takes a lot to make one of our MPs embarrassed. How come we end up with a Leader of the Free World only able to talk like a Speak Your Weight machine whose phonemes have become jumbled up?
You wrote: “But we do it not because we want to be right, but becasue we care about everyone. It’s not about being right. We just want others to know what we know. The experience of discovering truth is what the bible calls being born again. A power sweeps over you and your life is instantly changed forever. At that moment, you just know. Christians all over the world know what happens first-hand. We don’t have to read it or compare notes. We all know because the same thing happened to us all. Think about that. Seek and you shall find. Open your heart and challenge God to show you what we know. Not becasue I want to be right, but because I want everyone to experience the love and power of a real creator capable of creating a universe by simply saying “Let there be…” Uni-single, verse-spoken sentence.”
With respect to your last comment why do you chaps keep repeating the same nonsense? The derivation of the word “Universe” does not mean “single spoken sentence” any more than “fundamental” means to give money to George W Bush. (please let me know if I need to explain the joke). From the Apple dictionary: ORIGIN late Middle English : from Old French univers or Latin universum, neuter of universus ‘combined into one, whole,’ from uni- ‘one’ + versus ‘turned’ (past participle of vertere).
So you have experienced the same sort of religious experience that also sweeps over a Muslim. A Muslim knows with exactly the same strength of knowledge of his God as a Christian does of his three Gods (four if he is a Catholic). But, in your case, when it comes to the Muslim God, you are an atheist.
If I could experience the thrill of standing on the Moon to look down (up?) at the Earth one thought that would certainly come into my head would be, “What the hell do all those small-minded religionists (particularly Catholics) down (up?) there think they are on about? What has the warring history of a small jewish tribe got to do with this amazing cosmos?”. “Not very much” would come a still small voice.
If I had been standing up there almost two years ago and had been able to see a vast tidal wave heading for land, the first thought I would have had as a human being would be to tell Houston immediately to get on the blower and warn all those guys to get off the beaches pdq. Strange, isn’t it, all those Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Mormons sitting on the sand in the sunshine and God couldn’t be roused to get on the direct internal telephone line which you and your co-religionists claim to have to warn even one of them of the imminent death of 230,000 souls, amongst whom were 100,00 children. He deigned to warn Noah (which proves He is capable of doing it) but not his present faithful – that’s some personal God for you.
Why did all the psychics and clairvoyants and other woo-woo merchants not see it coming either? Well, we both know the answer to that one. However, if there was any good news to come out of the disaster, it was about a young English girl who remembered what she had learned in science class. When she saw the water leaving the beach she knew (real knowledge this time) that it meant a tsunami was on its way and that she should move to higher ground. As a result of that knowledge, she and her family and those around her made their escape.
By the way, while I am still up here on the Moon rambling away, I suggest that if you took a vote amongst American Christians as to whether they believe the Great Wall of China can be seen from the Moon with the naked eye I bet ninety-five percent would say yes. I say they are wrong. Not a particularly relevant point but it does go a little way to suggest that a mass belief is not necessarily correct. I have derived my opinion not from the opinion of others but because I know from my observation of the Moon from Earth that the human eye cannot resolve an object only thirty feet wide no matter long it is and assume reasonably that the reverse would be true.
You wrote “The fact is, I can’t prove creation, and you can’t prove evolution”
I can disprove YEC to a reasonable man. If, in 1987/8 I moved my telesope away from looking at the moon and kept it on SN1987A, I would have discovered that the supernova at the time it exploded was at a distance of some 168,000 light years from Earth. (http://heritage.stsci.edu/1999/04/sn1987anino.html). In order to make the Universe only 6,000 years old you have to stand on your head and play all sorts of tricks with physics, tricks which do not reflect the evidence. Evolution happens, live with it. Admittedly it does not happen anywhere near as rapidly as the YEC movement would require if the Noah’s Ark fable were to be true.
“But a bible written thousands of years ago describes the events of today with complete accuracy.”
Please give me an example. Does it prophesy the invention of that one-eyed god television, for instance? I suspect that your definition of “complete accuracy” is a moveable feast. Jeremiah condemned the entire religious establishment of his time — the very same people that other Bible authors held in highest esteem: “prophets and priests are frauds, every one of them” (Jer. 8:10). But perhaps he was just a terrible old Jeremiah.
You wrote “Must be supernatural. So maybe you think that’s just coincidence. Ok, so look at all of the prophecies yet to be fulfilled. Educate yourself and watch as they happen before your eyes.”
Such as?
You wrote “Find out why many former athiests such as Lee Strobel committed himself to proving the bible wrong and became a Christian because of its accuracy in both science and prophecy”
He was a journalist and trained in law and not science. He was also under some stress initially because of his wife’s prior conversion. I would need to question him at some length as to the reasons for his conversion before accepting the validity of his opinion. I need some proof also that he tried to prove the Bible wrong. It is my understanding that he tried to discover what had caused the change in his wife rather than to disprove anything – but I accept that I may be wrong on the point, not that it is particularly relevant. There is no more reason for me to “come to Christ” because LS did for his own personal reasons than for me “to come to Florida” because OJ did for his. LS came to Christ not by revelation akin to Saul on the road to Damascus (which of his two differing accounts, by the way, do you believe is correct?) but following what he perceived as a logical investigation. So what? Despite another logical investigation OJ Simpson still roams the streets of Florida. Logic in the hands of illogical humans often leads to illogical results. As Bertrand Russell found to his dismay, even in the hands of a master logician, it can lead nowhere.
You wrote: “And how about the thousands of fully credentialled scientists that have converted because they simply can’t continue disputing the scientific accuracy. Here’s just a few links to hundreds of them:
http://www.icr.org/research/index/research_creationsci/ http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/ http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/45/63/
And new scientists are added to these lists constantly. Forget me. To most people out there, I’m a nobody. But for so many fully credentialled scientists to adopt this view…they must know something.”
Many (but by no means all) of the “scientists” on your list have a strange way of doing science. I have in mind those who are active in the ICR who proceed by way of misquotation, misrepresentation and deliberate and demonstrable falsehoods.
For every one scientist on your list there are a thousand who will never be – they must know something, too. But neither science nor religion are democracies so numbers don’t matter. You also fail to mention the many scientists and others who were christians but are no longer.
You wrote: “Do you KNOW FOR A FACT there is no God?”
No. To state so is arrogance. But I do think that he is unlikely to exist.
You wrote: “Do you KNOW FOR A FACT the Bible is not the inerrant word of God?”
Yes. I know (in its everyday sense of the word) that light and day (in their literal sense) did not come about before the creation of the Sun. I also know that the Sun was created before the Earth. I also know that people don’t turn into pillars of salt on a whim, that people couldn’t wander around unharmed inside fiery furnaces, that bats are not birds, and that around 35 AD, corpses didn’t crawl out of their graves and wander around Jerusalem to all hours. At least, if they, did there would have been no women amongst them – unless they were buried with their rollers, hairbrushes and make-up kits. I also know that Heaven is not “up”. Luke felt the need to write another gospel even though “many writers have undertaken to draw up an account of the events” (Luke 1:1). Luke obviously felt that Mark’s gospel was filled with errors and edited it freely. Not even Mark’s account of the words of the dying Christ was left unaltered. I also don’t believe that you could drink a nice refreshing glass of potassium cyanide and survive as recommended in so many words in Mark 16 but then, perhaps, you are not really saved as you believe. I bet you daren’t test your certainty by trying a small glass full. P.S. stay your hand, sir, I don’t require proof. I also, as a fact, do not know what Mark 16:12 means – can you help?
You wrote: ‘Do you KNOW FOR A FACT that we don’t know what we’re talking about?”
I am not sure that your question has any sensible meaning. I could perhaps discourse at length on the delicious maturity of the taste of the green cheesiness of the Moon but we both know that I would be talking gibberish. Wittgenstein said, in his 1929 lecture on ethics, that “the tendency of all men who ever tried to write or talk Ethics or Religion was to run against the boundaries of language,” i.e. to talk or write nonsense.
You wrote: “The obvious answer to all of those questions is no. You can’t know. So maybe there is a God. And maybe the Bible is the work of God. Maybe all of those scientists on the lists are right. You could ask the same questions from your side, but our answers are different. Not because we’re mindlessly brainwashed and immovable on an opinion. But because there is a God that is supernatural and reveals truth. That’s why WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW.”
You are now starting to sound like that rum cove, Dr Donald Strangelove. It is such idiotic phraseology which turns me off. “It is not that we are immovable on an opinion … its because we know that we know that we know”. I find that statement a very sad irony and tautologous and, possibly, oxymoronic into the bargain. Perhaps, as Wittgenstein suggested, it is that language is incapable of transmitting the religious emotion which you feel. If you really do have an immovable opinion and God is unchanging let me ask you what you would have done if you had you lived in Christian England in 1555. Which side of the religious debate would you have been on? In furtherance of the protestant religion would you have set light to the faggots (fortunately for faggots, in England, faggots are bundles of wood) which burned the ridiculously brave Bishops Latimer and Ridley or, strengthened by your Catholic knowledge of knowledge of knowledge, been happy to join them at the stake? Fortunately, these days in secular England we no.onger have the death penalty
You wrote: “Go ahead and say what you want in response. All I ask is that next time you’re alone with your thoughts, PLEASE ask yourself “WHAT IF…?”
Are you suggesting that, to save my immortal soul, I should become a Muslim?
taco
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 8:10am:Sorry to hear about the legs. I DO believe God has a plan for everyone. Maybe opening your heart about issues like this will prove helpful. I liked the standing up joke; pretty funny stuff. I am glad to hear you werent mocking God. The OT and NT are same God. I actually talk like a normal person (normal has a wide range if you ask me though) and I try to stay grounded but GOD has helped me so much in my life. I havent had anything happen to me like you have but life in its daily pressures can be taxing on its own. I am so thankful I have a God that will listen to me and take my burdens off me. Life is still hard but with Jesus its a lot more comfortable for me and my family and I would never be as strong without him. My point is I have never heard any Christian that really believes what he preaches talk about negatives. I only hear about how great God is. Why is this so? Why does a God filled man see everything half full instead of half empty. Its because God is the answer and when your with God there is a peace about you that cant be explained. I was much like you three years ago. After almost ruining my family through my own stupid actions we sought to reconcil our relationship with the Lords help. My life has never been the same. I can assure you im not someone to come to God blind. There are many things that can be answered but for me I could really care less about evolution. Its just something the Devil uses to devide the people. All I can say is Jesus has given me a new life AND I NEVER WANT THE OLD ONE BACK!
Much love,
The Taco
prewrathx
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 10:47am:Bionicduck,
Thank you for your comment on Dec 12th at 11:30am. You really hit it right on the nose in regards to those who hide behind their computers only to bash Dr. Hovind when he’s not around to make them look stupid. No matter how blatantly obvious it becomes to the factual inaccuracy of evolution, most who believe in the theory will continue to believe in it because it simply is what they want to believe in. Science and common sense went out the window when the theory of evolution was invented because it was the only possible way to eliminate having to answer to God. And as far as Dr. Hovind being behind bars due to possible tax evasion goes, not one of us has enough grounds to make an argument either way. But I will give our government credit though, for the time being, they have unfortunately done a pretty good job of limiting the work that Dr. Hovind can do for the Lord.
Keep the knowledgeable silent and the ignorant listening. That’s their philosophy and it seems to be working. Once again, very well put bionicduck.
Tyler
Millerfamily6
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 3:19pm:Here is a good link to take a look at: http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/multi/illumin.html concerning the New World Order and our American Government and Monetary System. Lots of info to digest, and I am unable to take the time to go to research archives to verify this information. But for all you critics of tax protestors, I would encourage you to at least read this information and if you have the time, to research its factuality. Some of the info is easily verifiable or already known. Let us not continue to close our eyes or be like the ostrich with its head in the sand concerning the corruptness of our government. We Christians need to wake up and repent and begin to pray to our Mighty God, or else America will no longer be the land of the free (which we have very little freedom left). Do not get your news from the mainline media, you’ll never get the truth!
Georgio
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 3:56pm:Do you guys know, when we can expect some news update about KH?
OK, now some of you do hope, he will stay in jail for years to come, but the question -as I see it- remains still valid.
And to those, who don’t like him, or hate him: I’m not mad at you, and even believe, you are entitled to your free opinion.
Oh, one more thing, if you don’t mind an off topic question:
apart from the religious aspects, what are the main differences between the public and private high schools in America?
Thx.
I have never been to America, and we here do not have private high schools. Okay, maybe just one or two.
warocuya
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 8:08pm:Dear bionicduck,
God Bless You!!! You hit the nail on the head.
John Lake and others say they listened to Dr. Hovind’s radio program but they didn’t call in. It was a free call. I don’t get others like Isaiah. Where does that hate come from? How can you (Isaiah) say you love God whom you haven’t seen but hate your brother…
Anyway,
welcome everyone to my country.
signed,
Robert
the American Indian
P.P.S Salvation is a free gift. Jesus Paid it ALL.
Blessing to Kent and Family, CSE Brothers and Sisters and Dinosaur Adventure Land. DAL Awesome Fun!!! Thank you for letting me visit.
Love your brother in Christ
Warocuya
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 8:42pm:Darling, once again, you need to get OFF the major media brainwashing info grid.
The Federal Reserve is PRIVATE. It was founded, and is run, by PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL FINANCIERS.
You need to read up on the history of the Fed, darling. You are completely in the dark here.
The year was 1913. Seven of the world’s richest tycoons met incognito to avoid media snoops; they met on the private resort of Jekyll Island, off Georgia. There they concocted the Federal Reserve scam to take control over our gov’t.
Previously, a few years before, they had a Senator Nelson Aldrich, whom was in their backpocket, try to foist such an unconstitutional takeover bill past congress, and congress voted it down; however, the int’l financiers re-huddled at Jekyll Island, and got Aldrich to try it again. They tinkered with it, and slapped the name “Federal” on it.
The Fed Reserve, as they say, is no more “federal” than Federal Express. It’s Orwellian-speak, my man. It’s a political euphemism designed to dupe people who aren’t off their disinfo grid yet.
You really need to read G. Edward Griffin’s “The Creature from Jekyll Island”, darling.
You complain about Jason or whoever not reading your stuff.
Well I’m telling you, you are CLUELESS about this subject unless and until you read such a work as Griffin’s, or the other books and DVDs I’ve already cited.
And if you think any current president of the U.S. actually chooses the head of the Fed, rather than announces who he is told will head the Fed, then you might just be beyond all hope, darling.
And congress? The ONLY congressman with enough guts to speak plainly about the Fed Reserve is Ron Paul from Texas. Everyone else is either gutless or beholden to these people or doesn’t know any better than you do.
You better believe the Fed is a private monopoly, and you better get used to it; or, keep getting used by it.
darling, I know your info about the Fed. Your info is the orthodox line, so everybody knows it. But my point is, while I know yours, and you know yours, I’m the only one who knows the other side of the story. You so far remain ignorant of the other story of the Fed, the one you’re no supposed to know.
darling said:
Let’s see, what else?
Operations of the Federal Reserve are controlled through law, regulations and policy set by Congress, and overseen by a seven-member Board of Governors who are appointed by (and answerable to) the president.
No private entity has any say in how the Fed is run, and Congress can abolish the Fed at any time.
Does that sound like a private monopoly to you?
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 8:47pm:Geno, you are very mistaken in this claim. Please see the DVD “America: From Freedom to Fascism” which you can watch for FREE thanks to patriotic Americans on Google video.
Geno Said this at 11:18am:
——————————————————————————–
If I recall correctly, the Supreme Court has ruled (many times) that the income tax laws are constitutional.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 8:53pm:Congratulations, darling, that’s EXACTLY the imperious tenor that the IRS takes just about everytime they are challenged in court by a U.S. Constitution-abiding American. They label the lawsuit “frivolous” because, as you said yourself, anybody who would find fault with the IRS must needs be a “kook” by definition. A lot of arrogance in this mindset which you share with the unconstitutional IRS, darling. A lot of arrogance, and disdain for your fellow man.
(p.s. and no, the IRS has been anything BUT clear. Again, I futilely, plaintively, vainly ask you to watch the movie “America: From Freedom to Fascism” which, thanks to patriotic Constitutional Americans you can watch for FREE on Google video. If you care enough about your country and about the liberty the Founding Fathers fought and died for.)
darling said:
Gordon_Comstock, there’s no confusion. The courts have been consistently clear over the past hundred years (and more) about what the LAW says.
The problem is not that the IRS doesn’t show people the law – although they certainly don’t have waste time and money responding to every kook and there -
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 13th, 2006 at 11:04pm:Darling,
When I said you may be “beyond hope,” don’t worry, I didn’t mean it. Reverse psychology.
I confess I sometimes slip into reverse psychology mode because it often works wonders on some of my high school students. I wanna be straight up with you. In Him, all things are possible.
–Gord
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 8:13am:Geno, not only are you mistaken in this assertion (for example, the 1894 Pollock Case the U.S. Supreme Court ruled exactly the opposite), but you are forgetting that, for a long time in this country, the Supreme Court also ruled that black people weren’t people; that they were mere property.
Do you still stick by and defend that one, Geno?
Yessir, it took a lot of God-fearing, grass roots-moving Christian Americans to finally put their foot down and tell the Supreme Court they were wrong, that the Supreme Court was violating the Declaration of Independence.
In matters of U.S. law, we need to cling fast to the U.S. Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land, not fickle judges who’ve come and gone since then, exchanging mores like wallpaper in their bathrooms.
And while we cling fast to that U.S. Constitution, we need to guard it, protect it, against illegal parasitization which seeks to destroy it’s original black and white, cut and dried intent–such parasitizations as the 16th Amendment, which was NEVER LEGALLY RATIFIED, and the accompanying criminal “Federal” Reserve Act, which, illegally, was put through without any bother or attempt at the Amendment process.
In defending the income tax, and its correlary the “Federal” Reserve, you are defending lawlessness in this country. You are thus defending immorality, just like Supreme Court Justice Taney. You remember him, don’t you?
Geno said:
If I recall correctly, the Supreme Court has ruled (many times) that the income tax laws are constitutional.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 11:23am:Read ‘em and weep, folks. Read ‘em and weep (or celebrate, as the case may be, if you’re an American who cherishes law and liberty).
The 16th Amendment WAS NEVER LAWFULLY RATIFIED!!!!!!!:
http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/ratification.asp
Thus, the IRS is UNconstitutional, i.e., UNlawful.
Making the income tax “law” unconstitutional, i.e., unlawful.
Making any “structuring” charges against Kent Hovind bogus and UNAmerican.
Darling, Geno, some of you other guys, um, you can get up off the floor now; you can stop kow-towing to worldly princes who do evil.
Neither your princes nor yourselves have the Supreme Law of the Land on their/your side.
Which leaves Christians with the right, indeed, the responsibility, to call you, and the unlawful gov’t actions of the present UNconstitutional system to account, even as Paul called to account the chief captain’s unlawful scourging of him, Paul, a Roman citizen, in Acts 22.
‘Nuff said. Case closed. Gird up your loins, protestants. Stand and fight. Stop the pollyanna, lukewarm flaccidity which has been killing the True Church in the U.S. for decades now.
xchampion91
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 1:02pm:I wanted to say to all who post here that I am a man who entirely believes that everyone has the right to express their opinions and beliefs. In addition to that I also want to say that essentially both sides of this argument have valid points.
The essential thing to keep in mind in this is that Kent Hovind does have one thing right, and no one can refute this. The lies used to support evolution NEED to be removed fro the public school’s textbooks. That the “approved scientific curriculum” is in the majority false, and proven to be so by secular and creationist scientists. Case in point …
“gill slits”. Mr Haekel’s (is that spelling correct?) theory was refuted by his own university that he made up his drawings from imagination, no scientific evidence has ever been found to prove his theory. It is reprehensible that this “so-called fact” is still being taught to the youths that go to the public schools in this country.
Let us have a free and open education that discusses all facets of intelligent design and evolution be discussed in the classrooms and let the children decide for themselves without propaganda from both sides. That is truly fair and also keeps with the scientific method.
I also wish that the backbiting and hate be kept from the discussion, and that applies to both sides.
“Can’t we just get along?”
I have met Dr. Hovind in Lancaster, CA at one of his seminars. At that time I was an convinced evolutionist who did my level best in talking Christians out of believing in the bible. I will answer for that come the Day. The simple fact remains, I was lied to in school and those lies caused me to doubt the teachings of my church. I hurt inside when I remember myself from those times. I still feel quite foolish.
So I ask humbly that everyone including the Creationists cease the angry diatribe and concentrate on the matter at hand.
REMOVE THE LIES FROM THE TEXTBOOKS!!!!
Then we shall see what happens.
May Jesus bless those that keep his commandments. Your brother in Christ.
iago9067
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 2:00pm:Geno could you, or any one else sticking up for the title 26 show us the law that requires us to file, or pay ??? Every one wants to defend taxes, but no one will show us the law. Please some one show us so we dont have to argue about it .and please read this and tell me what u think
Is it Lawful to Give Tribute unto Caesar, or Not?
The phrase, “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s” is probably the one of the most misinterpreted phrase in the New Testament. Most people read this and think that Jesus is saying, “Give Caesar your money and give God your soul. ” In this article, I’ll attempt to show you that the above interpretation of Jesus’ statement is not a correct interpretation and that Jesus was actually saying that is was not lawful (at that time and place) to give Caesar anything. Let us look at this scripture more closely. Pay close attention to each verse.
Matthew 22:15-22
Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men. Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? Show me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
Luke 20:19-26
And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them. And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor. And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly: Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no? But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? Show me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar’s. And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s. And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
Things to think about
1. The Pharisees knew the law. They knew that Jesus knew the law. Why did they think that they could have Jesus arrested, by His answer, if it was [Biblically] lawful to pay taxes to Caesar?
2. If Jesus said, “Yes, Give Caesar your money…” and nobody “laid hands” on Him, nor did the crowd leave Him, then that wasn’t a very good trap they set for Him.
3. And why did they marvel at this answer? Why did they hold their peace? (Whatever Jesus said to them was more of a shocker than “Yes, Give Caesar your money and God your soul.”)
Other Things to Keep in Mind
1. The Pharisees asked Jesus, “Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar”. This statement clearly shows us that just because a government “passes laws” does not make these laws “lawful”.
2. “And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.” [Luke 23:2]
3. When Jesus spoke in front of mixed company (with sinners), he did not speak so that everyone could understand. [Matthew 13:10-17]
“All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:” [Matthew 13:34] (It does not get any more clear than that. When Jesus said “Render unto Caesar…” He was speaking in a parable!)
4. Government tax collectors are always mentioned in context of sinners.
*And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, “God, be merciful to me a sinner!” [Luke 18:13 NKJV].
*…Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.” [Matthew 21:31 NKJV]
*”Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him. [Luke 15:1 NKJV]
*And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. [Matthew 18:7 NKJV]
(Also see Matthew 5:46-47, 9:11, 11:19, 21:32, Mark 2:15-16, Luke 5:30, 7:34)
The Setting
Two thousand years ago, Israel and many other countries, were under Roman control. The Jews that followed Jesus did not like being an occupied people. They did not like the idea that Caesar made claim of ownership of all land, people, and even their holy buildings. They did not like the idea of paying tribute to an occupying country.
The Romans allowed the Jews to continue using their currency to trade, but they had to pay taxes to the Roman Empire using Roman coins.
They knew that only God can make laws and that the Israelite kings could only administer God’s Law without adding to it, nor taking away from it.
They knew that all things in heaven and in earth belong to God.
“Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it.” (Deuteronomy 10:14 NKJV).
The Trap
Obviously, when you set a trap for someone, you don’t want to give that person an easy way out. When the Pharisees “took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk” so they might “lay hands on him”, they knew if Jesus said that it is not lawful, that the Roman soldiers would arrest Jesus, and throw Him in prison. If he said, “Yes, it is lawful to pay tribute to Caesar”, then the Jews would know that he was not the Messiah and at least leave him, or maybe even stone him. The Pharisees knew the law better than most anyone in those days. They already knew the correct answer, before they asked. They knew that Jesus and his followers knew the correct answer. They knew that Jesus would tell his followers that it was not lawful to pay tribute to Caesar. Again, the reason they asked the question is not to learn the answer. The reason they asked the question was so they could “deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor” (What is more logical? Jesus getting arrested for teaching people to pay taxes, or for teaching people NOT to pay taxes?)
Jesus Answers the Pharisees
“And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s. And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.”
Notice that Jesus did not define what belonged to Caesar. He did not say that the coin in question belonged to Caesar. He also did not define what belonged to God. He didn’t need to. That was defined many times in the Old Testament. (The Pharisees and His followers knew the Old Testament. The Roman soldiers did not.) “Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it.” (Deuteronomy 10:14 NKJV). “The earth is the LORD’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.” [Psalm 24:1]. That leaves nothing left for Caesar. Also, Haggai 2:8 states “The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.” [The coin mentioned in this verse was the denaruis (silver)]
Why the Pharisees Marveled at His Answer, and held their Peace.
Remember, the Pharisees “took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk” so they might “lay hands on him”. They thought they had a real good trap. They did not think it was even possible to get out of it. If Jesus said, “Yes”, his followers would at least leave him. If He said, “No”, the Roman soldiers would take him. Then Jesus answered the Pharisees in a nature that was typical of Jesus. His answer was so clear to everyone that knew the Old Testament (the Jews) but, just as it is not clear to many people today, it was not clear enough to the Roman soldiers for them to arrest Him. (Jesus was not afraid of getting arrested, but He was not going to let Satan decide on when and where.)
After Jesus basically told the people that Caesar should get nothing, His followers probably cheered. His followers probably increased in number after that statement. The Pharisees were in awe, because they thought they had Jesus in their “check-mate trap”, but Jesus came out of the trap unharmed and with the Pharisees’ queen. After seeing that their wits are no match for Jesus’ in this game, they “tipped over their king” and held their peace.
The Superscription on the “Penny”
The Roman coin in the above verses, had, on the front, a graven image of Tiberius Caesar and read, “Tiberius Caesar Augustus, son of the Divine Augustus” and the other side would read, “Pontius Maximus” which means “High Priest” or “Chief Priest”. After knowing this, I believe that it is very questionable that Jesus would even possess such a coin. Maybe that is why He called them hypocrites and then asked to see a penny. It is possible that He did this for at least two reasons. One, is that it he did not have a Roman coin on him. And the second reason was to expose their hypocrisy and validate his accusation. In no other verse in the Bible did Jesus accuse someone of being a hypocrite without showing them the reason for His accusation. (Matthew 7:5; 15:7-9; 16:3-4; 23:13, 14, 15, 23, 25, 27-28, 29; Mark 7:6-9: Luke 6:42; 12:56; 13:15;) When they produced the coin, it showed everyone the reason for Jesus’ accusation.
One More Thing to Think About
If Jesus was alive today and living in Canada, where babies are killed (abortions) with tax money, which of the two sentences below sounds more like what Jesus would say:
1. “I am going to pay the tax (help kill the babies), but I am going to write my Congressman and tell him that I don’t like this one bit.”
2. “You will have to kill me, before I will help fund the killing of babies!”
If you picked number 2, great. Now, using that same logic, would Jesus have helped fund the expansion of the Roman Empire that currently occupied [by force] the land God gave to His people?
So, should we pay taxes to our King? The answer is “Yes”. We should pay taxes to whom we pledge our allegiance to. The question is, “Who do you pledge your allegiance to and what Kingdom do you claim your citizenship?”
Also see Didn’t Jesus pay taxes? and Romans 13.
thanks again geno please tell me what you think
ps . I did my time in the army , and I hope you like my spelling better.
Nehemiah Jeon
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 5:25pm:Dear CSE and Dr. Hovind
Greetings in Christ! I pray for the Lord’s will to be done! Lord bless all of you, and.. The more persecution we get, the more blessing there will be, I believe.
God bless all, and VICTORY IN CHRIST!! (-_-)V
Nehemiah Jeon(yay!)
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 5:50pm:I understand the sentiments, XChampion91, and I hear you. And I’m with you a lot of the way, believe me. But there is, as I see it, an overemphasis in contemporary protestant Christianity to “just get along” with the fallen darkened world and where it is going. Yes, I’m familiar with verses in Scripture where we Christians are to be peacemakers. However, we are not at all times to be peacemakers. There are times when we have to be the salt of this world, as Scripture also dictates.
Indeed, you take a verse like Ephesians 5:11:
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”
Today, most contemporary U.S. protestants shrink from giving such a reproof when it is necessary, yet there it is, this verse, staring us in the face.
Again, Paul called the chief captain to account in Acts 22. He appealed to secular legality, which is all I and guys like Jason and Iago and some others on this forum are doing when we point out the unlawfulness of the current U.S. tax system.
I maintain that it is precisely because Christians of the preceding two to four generations in the U.S. have tried to “get along” too much, and too often, at inappropriate times, that We the People nowadays find ourselves in such an unlawful and increasingly tyrannical predicament.
This is, of course, exactly how protestants allowed the unscientific philosophy of Darwinism to overtake our schools: too many protestants rolled over and played nice too often, at the wrong times and places.
(And by the way, XChampion91, please, use another phrase to quote other than the one “Can’t we all just get along,” which was coined by that unsaved, unregenerate, black gangbanging Los Angelino. It’s a phrase that, because of its overuse, and where it came from, we Christians ought to just avoid, IMO. Still, trust me, I do appreciate your sentiment. I want to make myself clear on that.)
Setting aside Christianity’s limp surrender to Darwinism in the late 1800s and beyond, I think a lot of the contemporary and ubiquitous U.S. protestant impotence in terms of standing up for inalienable (read: God-given) rights in this country is still a result of the hazy hangover from the sweet smelling ether of the duplicitous and ultra-dangerous “ecumenical movement” which the Vatican pulled off in 1960.
Beware, my friend. Please beware. It is a trap. Know your Vatican history: in well over a millenia and a half, if history has shown us anything, it has shown that the Vatican NEVER acquiesces ANY atom of its power and authority and unScriptural sacraments; it will always in the end seek to reign and subdue and finally quash any and all notion of Scripturally-based churches, as well as any notions of popular government.
We protestants have been taking the bait of the Woman that rides the Beast in the book of Revelation, and that bait was drugged. And so we are “zoned out” to the danger.
Well our Reformation Forefathers would never have difficulty recognizing the danger around us this moment. They would have no trouble at all in seeing how the ultimate culprit to the destruction of popular gov’t in this nation leads straight to Vatican infiltration at the highest levels, and for quite some time. Thankfully, a few of us protestants do still see it:
http://spirituallysmart.com/redmasspics.html
http://www.tacklingthetoughtopics.net/Eberhart/index_jesuits.html
http://www.vaticanassassins.org/
http://www.reformation.org/lincoln.html
I am taking you upward now with these links and this information, past the banksters, past the Rockefellers and Rothschilds, and straight to the source.
Luther and Zwingli and Calvin and Knox would have no trouble comprehending and attesting to this information; indeed, they would be expecting it to be so.
So every time we protestants of today, in the U.S., just try to “get along” with the encroaching unlawfulness in our country, with increasing tyranny and destruction of the U.S. Constitution such as we see in the unlawful Federal Reserve and IRS, we are in fact acting the part of “watchers on the wall” who are sleeping while on duty. And as God makes it clear in Ezekiel 33:6, if we protestants who see and understand the danger should now remain silent, the “blood of the injured” shall be on our hands.
And it could be blood from the next physical manifestation of the Inquisition, which never was abolished, but was given the duplicitous euphemism of the “Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.”
No, the Inquisition never left us. It’s here, still, with us. More subtle now, because the Vatican has learned, and because it must be in order to succeed. The stalwartness and, indeed, the fury, of our Reformation Forefathers taught the Vatican to be subtle, until the need for subtlely is no longer required. And then will the trap be sprung, yes, even upon we protestant Americans and our notions of popular gov’t.
Ask the Waldenses, ask the Hussites–nay, you need not go back that far in time. Ask the Orthodox Serbs of the 1940s. They’ll tell you. The ghosts of those there immolated, cut-throated, thrown off cliffs, eyes gouged out, flayed alive, and forcibly “converted” by the PRIEST-LED Roman Catholic Ustashi will testify to this stark enduring reality:
http://spirituallysmart.com/croatia2.html
http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html
This is where we are going, this is where we are headed.
If you remember that old Twilight Zone episode entitled “To Serve Man,” it stands as actually a wonderful analogy of the ecumenical movement. Remember, it was a cookbook, it was a cookbook? We protestants are the earthlings in such an analogy. The Vatican and its minions are the big-headed aliens who only want to “serve” and “help” us to “get along” when in reality they are out to devour us and our Faith.
So forgive me my passion, my implacable tendency to whoop and holler or whatever else. I’m a watcher on the wall and I’m not gonna be responsible for what I see coming.
XChampion91 said:
So I ask humbly that everyone including the Creationists cease the angry diatribe and concentrate on the matter at hand.
Samphire
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 6:24pm:KarlRichII
Said this at 9:53pm:
1. Re:”what a lovely God” – hey, you don’t have to like him but eventually you’ll be bowing to him. Re:”Muslims won’t get there, apparently. Not even those who are the most devout God-fearing ones. If God is the God of Love then you haven’t read the O.T.” – I see nowhere that I’m wrong, if a muslim SEEKS God wholeheartedly, God will show him the way…which is Christ! if he doesn’t like the answer then that’s his problem.
You are being disingenuous.
2. Re:”one of the chosen”? – i dunno what that has to do with what i was saying, but I know that i’m chosen because I know that I’m saved, i was there when Christ came into my life, you weren’t so i wouldn’t expect you to KNOW like I do. Re:”by the way, would you be allowed in the KKK?” – I wouldn’t be in the kkk anymore than a flesh-walkin unrepentant sinner is in the body of Christ.
It was my poor attempt at humour – geddit? Obviously not.
4. Re:”Slavery is not condemned in the Bible; in fact, the OT recommends it” – lame. Using aspects of old testament law (which which was given to an ancient people outnumbered and surrounded by enemies who had little to no qualms about savagely killing and enslaving them) to attack the ethics of the bible is ineffective because the harsher the law was, the greater room it made for grace to shine through in the new testament. You speak from the perspective of someone who has no understanding of God’s redemption plan, yet you claim to have grown up in a christian home…
OK. Then read what Paul has to say about slavery under the new Covenant. In short, I think that God’s redemption plan is mainly the invention of Paul having copied the idea from other traditions.
5. Re:”God declared that ALL animal life would be destroyed” – well, the scripture says that “the end of all flesh is at hand” so I could see reading that and believing that everything that lives will die, but then God goes on to explain in the same chapter exactly what was to be destroyed, (all that has the breath of life) so once again, that would not included the fish, or insects.. maybe they survived on floating log mats, corpses and whatever else was floating around.
Yes, maybe but it isn’t what Genesis says. If you must take an extremely narrow view of what constitutes “breath of life” how about whales, dolphins, sea cows, porpoises, even crocodiles. These poor guys would have spent a year trying to swim through thick oozing mud. Mix up a jar of one part soil and two parts water and see if you would like to spend a year in it. How would fish survive in that mix?
6. Re: “Certainly, fundamentalist beliefs create a certain mindset or vice versa. Do you detect the irony between your last sentence and the following benediction; probably not” – what irony? I said “peace and love”. I dunno how you’re reading this but I think I’m being pretty peaceful, and love hurts, I could just read what you believe and say “ha, that joker’ll really look like a tool when he’s burning in hell” but if I, as a christian really believe that you, as a non-believer are on the wide road to destruction and I didn’t at least try to say something…. well, I don’t see much love in that.
The irony is you as a human being wishing me peace and love compared to a peaceful and loving God content to throw me and the vast majority of humanity into a fiery pit for all eternity. It appears that before Elijah, heaven had not been invented. And then, out of nowhere, a fiery chariot suddenly appears and takes him off to it. He didn’t even bother to die first. One lucky guy. I am happy that you are happy in thinking that that is where you are going when, unlike Elijah, you die. I don’t doubt that, following his absolution by the Catholic Church, the recently-demised General Pinochet will also be there and available to spend many happy hours discussing the ethics of political murder with all who are interested. And, with respect, you cannot say that he won’t be.
Thanks for your concern; peace and contentment to you too.
Matthew
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 6:33pm:Sammy
I acknowledge that Hitler was not Christian, as your reference states on his web site, but, early on, Hitler did profess to be Christian. There ares some quotes from Wikiquote such as “We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls. … We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.”
MatureKid
“Creator” is ambiguous, like the word “God”. Whose God/Creator is it, the Jews’, Christians’, Muslims’, Buddhists’ , Native Americans’? The funny thing is the Christian’s God does not have name like Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, or Buddha. Christians just call him God.
Christian Soldier
No, I am not Roman Catholic, why do you ask?
xchampion91
Gill Silts:
The pharyngeal pouches that appear in embryos technically are not gill slits, but that is irrelevant. The reason they are evidence for evolution is that the same structure, whatever you call it, appears in all vertebrate embryos. Agassiz (not a Darwinist himself) said, “The higher Vertebrates, including man himself, breathe through gill-like organs in the early part of their life. These gills disappear and give place to lungs only in a later phase of their existence” (Agassiz 1874).
Darwinian evolution predicts, among other things, similar (not identical) structures in related organisms. That pharyngeal pouches in humans are similar to pharyngeal pouches (or whatever you call them) in fish is one piece of evidence that humans and fish share a common ancestor.
Haeckel’s theory:
Haeckel’s pictures are irrelevant to the question of whether the embryos are similar. What matters are the embryos themselves. Within a group, early embryos do show many similarities. For example, all vertebrates develop a notochord, body segments, pharyngeal gill pouches, and a post-anal tail. These fundamental similarities indicate a common evolutionary history. Other embryological similarities are found in other lineages, such as mollusks, arthropods, and annelids. These similarities have been long known. Professor Agassiz in 1849, for example, said, “We find, too, that the young bat, or bird, or the young serpent, in certain periods of their growth, resemble one another so much that he would defy any one to tell one from the other–or distinguish between a bat and a snake.” (Scientific American 1849)
The embryos also show some differences, which Haeckel glossed over. However, differences should also be expected, since the animals are not all equally related. It is the pattern of both similarities and differences that displays patterns of descent. Organisms that are less closely related are expected to look less similar.
When Haeckel’s inaccuracies were exposed, authors started using corrected versions. Science tends to be self-correcting.
As far this conspiracy of New World Order and the American government and taxes is nothing but stupid like the government was behind 9/11, there were no moon landings or that Princess Diana was murdered.
Samphire
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 6:56pm:xchampion91
Said this at 1:02pm:
“The essential thing to keep in mind in this is that Kent Hovind does have one thing right, and no one can refute this. The lies used to support evolution NEED to be removed fro the public school’s textbooks. That the “approved scientific curriculum” is in the majority false, and proven to be so by secular and creationist scientists. Case in point … “gill slits”. Mr Haekel’s (is that spelling correct?) theory was refuted by his own university that he made up his drawings from imagination, no scientific evidence has ever been found to prove his theory. It is reprehensible that this “so-called fact” is still being taught to the youths that go to the public schools in this country.”
How sad that KH has spent the last 17 years complaining about such a silly thing. How silly is it? Well, google “pharyngeal pouch” and do a bit of study. The biogenetic law (Haekel’s pet theory) is not Darwinism or neo-Darwinism nor is it part of any modern evolutionary theory. Inadvertently, what you are complaining about in parroting Hovind is that the textbooks are being dishonest about the ToE. And I don’t think that you meant to stand up for modern evolutionary theory, did you?
“Let us have a free and open education that discusses all facets of intelligent design and evolution be discussed in the classrooms and let the children decide for themselves without propaganda from both sides. That is truly fair and also keeps with the scientific method.”
You think that children have the developed intellectual equipment to do that then? How come, when many mature Christians don’t seem to? And, as for ID, have a good read of http://www.talkreason.org/articles/?http://www.csicop.org/intelligentdesignwatch/kitzmiller.html and follow all the links in the article giving the history of the debate and then tell me that the proponents of ID are either ethically or intellectually honest.
“I have met Dr. Hovind in Lancaster, CA at one of his seminars. At that time I was an convinced evolutionist who did my level best in talking Christians out of believing in the bible. I will answer for that come the Day. The simple fact remains, I was lied to in school and those lies caused me to doubt the teachings of my church. I hurt inside when I remember myself from those times. I still feel quite foolish. So I ask humbly that everyone including the Creationists cease the angry diatribe and concentrate on the matter at hand.
REMOVE THE LIES FROM THE TEXTBOOKS!!!!”
Removing Haekel’s drawings from the textbooks will change nothing. I don’t think that you studied evolutionary theory to any depth, did you?
Samphire
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 7:08pm:Hi, iago9067
If Jesus lived in Canada (and why not – it’s a great country with lots of sinners) do you think he would ever acquire a bank account with a $million dollars in it? And if he did, do you think he would send Mary Magdalene down to the bank twice a day to withdraw money from it (but not so much that the authorities found out about it) to pay his disciples? Would he ensure that he never used a cheque book to pay his men so that the money remained untraceable? I rather think that you have missed the point about KH’s convictions – both religious and criminal.
djhouk
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 7:44pm:Maturekid,
I’m not sure I understand your comment about the U.S. being bankrupt. I’m also not sure that links quoting James Traficant are the most reliable source of information. Mr. Traficant was expelled from the House of Representatives and is now serving an 8 year term in Federal prison, for, among other things, taking bribes, filing false tax returns, and racketeering.
Samphire
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 7:58pm:Isaiah
Said this at 3:49pm:
“Samphire says, “The guy has been arrogant and very stupid but it’s only money he has stolen…”
“The ONLY place in the entire Bible where the Lord’s Word is reported directly is by the Decalogue – the Ten Commandments to you – and the Lord’s own penalty for violation of any of those commandments is DEATH.
Samphire cannot substitute his/her wishes for the Living Word of the Lord. Kent Hovind has taken the Lord’s name in vain, stolen, lied and clearly nobody who proclaims and practices Christianity could violate three of The Commandments. Hovind’s fate is sealed and the Dark One seduced the weak-minded sinner into doing his Evil Bidding.”
Ooooh – gosh. Poor old Kent.
“Now, about that meeting out back for brain surgery – I’d be happy to do just that – except you might want to think really, really hard about what I could do to you. I guess the question comes down to veiled threat and veiled defense. I do know one thing – while the Lord is at my side – I know how to take care of myself. I shall trample all who trespass against me.”
Ooooh – gosh. Poor old me. I’ve just remembered – the clinic has been shut until further notice.
“Come to think of it – isn’t Samphire some kind of grape? Perhaps a vintage known for its wrath? The Devil has taken the Hovind – let us hope and pray that you are not as easily seduced by the one first cast into the lake of fire.”
Cripes, Isaiah, I hope I don’t meet you on a dark night. Actually, Samphire is a kind of green vegetable. I was going to write “a bit like you” but then I deleted it as being gratuitously rude. It’s much like a stick bean and it grows on seaside cliffs in Cornwall and Norfolk. Very tasty – a bit like me – but needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt – also a bit like me.
“Praise the Lord and send the Hovind to He who will Judge us All (the sooner, the better).”
Isaiah – you are a bit of a character and I like you. But I suspect you don’t have many friends. My great and great-great-grandfathers were both Methodist Ranters. Obviously, I never met them but, until tonight, would like to have done so. Now I have heard you in full flow, I m glad that I didn’t. If ever you are ever over here in England be sure to give me a wide miss.
Kind regards and do try to remember to keep taking the medication. I think that you might have missed a few doses lately.
Samphire
P.S. Have you ever read Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons? If not, you should do so – Stella has got you off to a T.
PPS Off topic but can any of you Yanks help me with the meaning of “boilerplate” and “swift-boat” when used as slang? I can’t find anything in Google and I come across the two words quite often on US webpages. Thanks
selena
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 8:57pm:THANK YOU JPROVERBS 3 5!! I was wondering if i am the only one who felt this way!
to J.R Turner, no one reads your mile long ramblings, and all it does is clog up the flow of the forum! i think a few eloquently stated facts would do just as well.
ColdWater
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 9:49pm:Samphire,
I read that you wrote that “Slavery is not condemned in the Bible; in fact, the OT recommends it.” Would you verify that for me by referencing a Bible verse?
bionicduck
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 10:07pm:To fldastate,
About my head being where the sun don’t shine….I pity you and your short sightedness and absolute unwillingness to see the forest through the trees. I will not change your mind…but vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. I do not have to defend myself to you. I will pray for your soul. I could insult you too, but since it is worthless to bend to your level of verbal jousting…I will leave all things to my Lord and Savior. COME LORD JESUS…..!
bionicduck
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 10:08pm:STOP BLAMING THEOLOGY FOR YOUR APATHY
By Pastor Chuck Baldwin
December 15, 2006
NewsWithViews.com
[edited- article was removed, please click the link to read the article
http://newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin336.htm
edited]
Jason
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 10:22pm:Thank you, Gordon_Comstock & Maturekid
I’m not so good on commenting on the stuff that you know about, & therefore I’m *very* easily outclassed with my ability to use the information (i.e. darling).
I want to say, as a Brit, I like the American constitution, I like what America is supposed to stand for. I heard it once said that the American Constitution wasn’t supposed to give the American people their rights, (as they already had them, just because they were *Human Beings*). The constitution was given to stop any future government in their attempts to dehumanize and enslave the free American.
It seems obvious to me, that the precedent of history shows, the one who is in debt is subject to and even a *slave* of the one he is owing to, until that debt is paid off.
Throughout and all around the world country after country is falling to this problem, leaders cannot govern their own countries, to make right and good decisions, to do what is good for their country, because of the *debt* that the country is in.
Those that own the debt make decisions & the people suffer and are enslaved.
I truly am concerned that *our* Nations are being sold out, we seem to make debts today like it’s a fashion statement. But, who owns the debt? We work all our lives and die in debt and our children are robbed of their inheritance, Who then gets the fruit of our life’s labors?
It is not just bad decision making, because of the *debt* a whole false economy of subsidies and debt support has arisen that keeps those in debt always working but never really gaining.
Getting into debt, and the casual comfort of maintaining your debt is just as easy as filling in a very simple form, A-B-See now you are in debt, wasn’t that easy & painless, how about a holiday or a special something to celebrate. (see just about every piece of junk mail from my bank).
Meanwhile simple rights are being subtlety taken away. Case in point, just the other day I went shopping at my local supermarket, collected my goods and tried to pay with my *Chip & Pin Card*, but the till machine wouldn’t read my card. I asked for a payment slip to sign instead thinking my signature being identical to that on my card would give authorization to the transaction. I was told that even though the technology is still there in the till machine from yesteryear, the Banks *for my convenience* have instructed that this technology is not allowed to be used anymore.
My *Signature* is no longer valid to make payments on my purchases!!!!, the only authorization I have to give now is *My Number*. Without *My Number* I can no longer buy at the supermarket (I should use cash more often).
I truly wish people would wake up, but they just seem to carry on listening to the message….
“Everything is ok! Go shopping, the government is in control, Every thing is ok!”.
Is it truly the case that when it comes to matters of the law and justice, we live in a society where the Might & Ability of Government is therefore the *Right* of the government to imprison & do what it wants?
Thanks for not sleeping,
Jason x
alyssakorz
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 11:04pm:Dr. Hovind
My husband and I have recently been introduced to your material and we are now saved because of it. My cousin told my husband and I to watch “The Garden of Eden” and the next day both of us asked for Jesus to save us. I just want you to know how much of a wonderful impact you have had on our lives. My husband and I are now watching as much as we can every day of your class CSE102. Thank you for speaking the truth! I am glad to hear you are keeping positive perspective. Anything we can do to help let us know.
Alyssa Korzeniewski
alysski@gmail.com
jkorz
Said this on December 14th, 2006 at 11:20pm:I wish I could have got this to Dr. Hovind before he was prosecuted because I am sure it could have helped. His material didn’t save me until it was already too late for him however. I am posting this in hopes of helping some other people who are unwillingly submitting to the IRS’ supposed jurisdiction over us. This site explains how to successfully fight any compelled action by the government not associated with a contract that is willingly entered into, i.e. paying income taxes. It sheds some light on why the constitution is not recognized in courts and why demanding your constitutional rights won’t work there. If you want to beat them, you have to do it using their rules.
Enjoy
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/freedom/ucc-connection.htm
-Joe Korzeniewski
Saved 12/27/2006 after watching “Garden of Eden”
Isaiah
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 4:28am:Let the Lord mete out the punishment that Satan’s agent in this world, the Hovind, has accrued. Let the Lord afflict him with boils, locusts and plague and destroy his home and issue.
Let the Gentle and Kind Lord destroy the evil Hovind for his sins in the time and manner The Lord deems reasoned and just. But. Lord, we beseech you to give the Evil One’s servant the pain in this world that your boundless love for the saved requires to keep us following your narrow path.
The followers of the evil Hovind are bound to the same fate if they do not abandon their evil ways.
Samphire: You simply must spend some of your abundant wealth and time to read, “The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner” (NYRB Classics) – I know that through that work Our Lord and Saviour would give you insight and understanding of The Isaiah’s position. BTW, it is viewed as the best work of Scottish authorship for the past 200 years.
Peace be with you and eternal suffering and pain to the Sinner, Hovind and to his issue and followers as is the Blessing of our Lord.
Where and when do we meet, Samphire? I have a crane and concrete bucket to position and last minute changes are a tribulation I’d rather avoid. Indeed, if the Samphire would stand under the concrete bucket, he who is all knowing and all kind would call the Samphire home.
darling
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 8:16am:Maturekid, Article 1, Section 8. Gives Congress the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof, and to pass the necessary laws to achieve this.
The Federal Reserve follows Congressional law, is controlled by presidential appointees, and exists only at the pleasure of Congress, private entities have no say in anything, so it’s perfectly constitutional.
But, again, this really has nothing to do with the tax code.
Thanks for linking to the words of disgraced representative Trafficant (respectfully, I don’t think the same text in two different forms counts as two items.) But in that context any representative is allowed to say anything they want. It doesn’t have to be true.
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iago9067 Said this at 10:32pm:
“darling just end this and show us the law cmon”
Asked and answered. You might want to double-check the post I made on Dec 11 at 10:34am.
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Gordon_Comstock,
I’ve read that book. I watched that movie. All conspiracy theory and no evidence. Call me crazy, but I like a bit of evidence before I believe something. (You’ll note that I’ve been offering evidence when asked.)
__________________________________________
Gordon_Comstock
Said this at 8:47pm:
“Geno, you are very mistaken in this claim [that the Supreme Court has ruled (many times) that the income tax laws are constitutional.]”
Only if “every time it’s ruled on that question” doesn’t count as “many”.
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#direct
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Gordon_Comstock, Said this at 8:53pm:
“Congratulations, darling, that’s EXACTLY the imperious tenor that the IRS takes just about everytime they are challenged in court by a U.S. Constitution-abiding American.”
I don’t blame them. They point to the laws, and people just pretend they didn’t. Just like I pointed you to the law, and you’re just pretending I didn’t.
After a while, it gets old.
Show me the law!
Here it is.
Show me the law!
Here it is.
Show me the law!
Here it is.
__________________________________________
Gordon_Comstock Said this at 11:23am:
“The 16th Amendment WAS NEVER LAWFULLY RATIFIED!!!!!!!”
Yes, yes it was:
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#ratification
Samphire
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 10:11am:Christian Soldier
Said this at 8:11pm:
“Samphire
Why are you wasting your time here? I mean if there’s only this life do you have time to spend on this? How about “living your life”? True atheists and agnostics don’t have time to spend on Christians. I never had back in the day when I was being brainwashed in the socialist schools of my nation to believe something that is not fact as fact, the evolution trash. Btw those Christian parents of yours what denomination where they?”
Hi Christian,
I have a great deal of time for Christians. I grew up with them, most of my family and relatives are Christians as are a lot of my friends. I don’t consider it a waste of my time to share my personal experiences with those who are happy to waste their own time reading them – one needs to relax occasionally from redecorating the drawing room which, I am pleased to say, I have just finished.
Does your user name come from the Sabine Baring-Gould hymn of which one verse goes:
(altogether now – you all know the tune)
Like a mighty army moves the church of God; Brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod. We are not divided, all one body we, One in hope and doctrine, one in charity.
It is that “we are not divided…. one in charity” refrain that gets me. Earlier posts (mainly that of KH himself) include some seeking to compare favourably the imprisonment of John Bunyan (referred to by that fount of all knowledge as John Bunyon) with that of KH. The difference of course is that JB was imprisoned by the protestant Church of England because he would not attend their church to be preached at whereas the protestant KH was imprisoned by the secular US state because he wouldn’t pay over their share of the money he had abstracted from a gullible public. Ironically, eventually JB was released through the efforts of the Quakers, a movement which JB had vigorously preached against.
CS, any rational person claiming that Frank’s posts are trash is in dire need of an education.
But perhaps you are right about wasting time. As the English poet, Matthew Arnold, wrote in The Last Word:
“Let the long contention cease
Geese are swans, and swans are geese.
Let them have it how they will!
Thou art tired; best be still”
Wise words which I hope we will all continue to ignore.
Kind regards
Samphire
Samphire
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 10:47am:Hi, Isaiah,
You really are a great comedian and parodist. Please keep it coming. We all enjoy your kind words of love and forgiveness written after the fashion of an OT prophet. Got any prophecies for, say, the end of next week? Will it be a white Christmas?
I have not read the book you mention but have ordered it from Amazon this afternoon. You fail to mention it is a novel – from the title it appears to be an autobiographical work. But still, I like your undertone, perhaps accusing our mutual friend of being an antinomian?
Thanks also for the prior crane and bucket info; I shall do my best to assist. Yesterday, motoring home from my local town a motorcyclist overtook me and then tried and failed to overtake a school bus on a blind bend. Fortunately, some praise be to God (why?) but mainly praise to the m/cyclist for having the good rational sense to wear a strong crashhelmet, he broke only his collarbone and his bike. I’ll see if I can borrow the helmet for our unavoidable meeting.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 10:53am:Hi Samphire,
I think Jesus would have been very successful, had he so desired, no matter what he did. But what business would it be of yours how much He would have made, or how and when and where he set aside the gain of his labors? What business would it have been of the Federal Gov’t, when the income tax is unlawful, as I have already shown you (but will now do so once more)?:
http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/ratification.asp
Read your Old Testament too, Samphire. If you do, you’ll find that Abraham was a very rich man indeed; Job was a very rich man too. And both those guys sought the Lord and found him, with their riches intact, as Scripture makes plain.
Samphire, it is the LOVE OF money that is the root of all evil, not money in and of itself. It is a common–and rather Marxist–mistake people make nowadays.
I think if anyone could have ever made millions and billions of dollars, and not have let it gone to his head or destroy his blessed humility, it would surely have been the incorruptible Jesus Christ. Are you saying, Samphire, that those who do God’s work are not entitled to reap some rewards for his labor? Because I think you’ll find Paul the Apostle pretty explicit about disagreeing with you.
And if Dr. Kent Hovind really was such a “money grubber” as you are implying, then, if you just stop and THINK about it, all he had to do was play the game, the same way charlatans like Benny Hinn and Pat Robertson and Billy Graham and all the other televangelists do–go along to get along, don’t rock the boat, pay the unlawful taxes, kiss the pope’s ring and bow down to him, but lie to the We the People and you’ll still get your millions as false prophets and teachers. But Hovind had and has too many Scriptural convictions for that. So, by standing up for Scriptural and Constitutional Law, he is where he is now, and his “millions” are unattainable to him. So where’s your beef? I don’t get it. Think you’re looking at Hovind all wrong, man. You should be looking at such people as TV evangelists who are NOT being caught–and there are plenty of those. The fact that they are not being caught, the fact that they are loved by this world, should tell you, if you know your Bible, that these are the ones who are false teachers: (Luke 6:26); the fact that Hovind is being persecuted is a really good Scriptural indicator that he is on target and legit and honest. Sorry, but Scripturally, it’s pretty doggone plain. If you’d like some verse, I’ve got plenty.
So here we have it: the foundation for your analogy is fouled up at all four corners: You are wrong in your concept of money and the source of evil, you are wrong in your understanding and respect of and for Jesus Christ, you are wrong in your understanding of the Old Testament’s patriarchs, and, again, you are wrong in that what you deem to be representations of law in this country (i.e., the IRS, the 16th Amendment, the “Federal” Reserve) are in fact the physical manifestations of lawlessness.
Samphire
Said this at 7:08pm:
——————————————————————————–
Hi, iago9067
If Jesus lived in Canada (and why not – it’s a great country with lots of sinners) do you think he would ever acquire a bank account with a $million dollars in it? And if he did, do you think he would send Mary Magdalene down to the bank twice a day to withdraw money from it (but not so much that the authorities found out about it) to pay his disciples? Would he ensure that he never used a cheque book to pay his men so that the money remained untraceable? I rather think that you have missed the point about KH’s convictions – both religious and criminal.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 11:02am:Actually “Isaiah,”
Scripture is pretty clear that, if Hovind is being persecuted by the world, then chances are pretty darn good that he’s the real deal: a Godly, legit, and honest teacher.
Contrastly, as Luke 6:26 shows, the world loves its own false teachers. If Hovind was all the things you say, the world ought to embrace and adore him, which it most definitely is not.
(hmmm…why do I get this weird feeling I am casting my pearls before swine here?…)
Isaiah said:
Let the Lord mete out the punishment that Satan’s agent in this world, the Hovind, has accrued. Let the Lord afflict him with boils, locusts and plague and destroy his home and issue.
Let the Gentle and Kind Lord destroy the evil Hovind for his sins in the time and manner The Lord deems reasoned and just. But. Lord, we beseech you to give the Evil One’s servant the pain in this world that your boundless love for the saved requires to keep us following your narrow path.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 11:17am:Darling,
You are just throwing more and more mainstream information sources at us, which I and others have already called into question. If you want to trust gov’t propaganda so much, that’s your deal. But I and others keep throwing gads of other alternative, non-corporate, non-gov’t information sources at you, and you keep ignoring it.
Now, as I’ve already cited, some of these information sources are FREE, such as the movie “America: From Freedom to Fascism” on Google video, or “Monopoly Men” also there. So you are without excuse in choosing to remain ignorant of these sources.
Which should and does call anything further you have to show us into question. Because of your choice of avoiding certain information.
Let me guess: You’re a Darwinist, right? If you are, that would explain your habit of selectively ignoring information which destroys the perfect little precarious model you have constructed in your head of the way things are.
Darling, or should I say Darwin, I’m gonna repeat: We here who are already off the current U.S. Goebbels-esque media disinformation ALREADY KNOW all about YOUR information. Frankly, it’s passe, because it is all around us–one cannot escape it because it is piped in through all the corporate-owned media outlets wherever one goes. However, you do NOT know our side of things, because you have to do some digging to apprise yourself of it. The gov’t doesn’t spoonfeed this info to you, you’ve got to do it yourself. It only makes sense: This is stuff they don’t want you to know. Now go do it, go and show some balance in your presentation by actually checking out the other side so you can keep your credibility on this forum which you are now starting to lose fast with every alternative reference you carefully choose to ignore.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 11:39am:Darling,
now you claim you have “read the book” and “seen the movie”.
I notice how quickly you gloss over that.
Yeah, I could sit here and tell you I just “War and Peace” last nite too.
Forgive me, Darling, but I’m gonna ask you to prove it.
Tell me, Darling, tell us, tell us a few SPECIFIC examples from the following which you claim were “conspiracy”, as though merely being able to use the word “conspiracy” places one’s self above all that. Uh, yeah. Right.
What SPECIFICALLY can you discuss from the following, Darwin:
DVD-”America:From Freedom to Fascism”
DVD-”Monopoly Men”
book-”The Creature from Jekyll Island” by G. Edward Griffin
book-”Secrets of the Federal Reserve” by Eustace Mullins
book-”Thieves in the Temple” by Andre Eggelletion
book-”Separation of Bank and State” by Edwin Veiera
book-”The Law that Never Was” by Bill Benson
book-”The Federal Reserve Conspiracy and the Rockefellers” by Emmanuel Josephson
Specific, Darling, specific. No snow jobs. Let’s hear it. What SPECIFIC information did you happen upon in your “research” of any of these? (He asked knowingly…)
Samphire
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 12:21pm:Gordon_Comstock said
“So here we have it: the foundation for your analogy is fouled up at all four corners: You are wrong in your concept of money and the source of evil, you are wrong in your understanding and respect of and for Jesus Christ, you are wrong in your understanding of the Old Testament’s patriarchs, and, again, you are wrong in that what you deem to be representations of law in this country (i.e., the IRS, the 16th Amendment, the “Federal” Reserve) are in fact the physical manifestations of lawlessness.”
Hi Gordon,
Please excuse me but I have no wish to engage with you in anyway whatsoever or with your tediously boring and witless conspiracy theories. It’s for the same reason I no longer shop at Harrods.
Regards
Samphire
JR Turner
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 1:07pm:Something we can do to remind our so called leaders of why they were elected to serve. This will definitely get ALL their attention.
http://www.citizensoftheamericanconstitution.org/margy_flynn_case_lasVegas1.htm
Acta non verba – Action not words
rea
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 1:21pm:About 10 years ago, I got a letter from the IRS telling me to be at a certain place at a certain time to answer questions about my tax return. Like the good trusting citizen I am, I went ready to cooperate. It was a nightmare of them accusing me of all sorts of things and I had no idea what they were talking about. They demanded all my books, etc. They acted like I was a criminal. I left very shaken are realized I needed professional help. But here is a problem: Accountants are just as afraid of them and tax attorneys know it is a game and charge a bundle.
I made quite a few calls looking for help and someone guided me to a former IRS Investigator who started a business helping people through these things. He came to my house with 2 huge briefcases, took out reams of paper and said, this is 1/100th of the tax code. He said, no one at the IRS knows the tax code. They make it up as they go. He told me how case officers are like car salesmen. Close the deal fast, get as much as you can and move on. They are evaluated on how much they collect. If they think you are going to fight, and it is not that much money they will negotiate. If they see you are a chump, they will take you for all you have.
He then told me he quit because he was sick or ruining people’s lives. His last case was a woman dying of cancer who had about 3 months left. He asked his boss if they could hold off taking her home until she died (she was dying at home). His boss said no. She was thrown out and her house was taken. So he quit.
He said people go to the IRS and do not have a clue how it works there. Everyone is thought guilty and treated guilty. He said it is a place where you can lose your soul.
He was able to play their own games with them and saved me a bundle. Never let them come into your home. They look for clues in your home to dig deeper and get more.
For others who think this is giving Caesar what is Caesers need to read Shelly Davis’ book. I cannot remember the title but she went to work there as an historian and was appalled at what she saw there and wrote about it.
Why should a government agency be feared to the degree that we do not understand the law (no one does) so we give them whatever they ask for?
How is Hovid different from Samuel Adams? John Adams? All the others? They did not render unto Caesar the stamp act. It was unjust and if we had not won the war, they would have all hanged. “We either hang together or we hang”
Was their defiance sin?
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 1:36pm:djhouk,
The U.S. is bankrupt. Research the history of money and the “federal” reserve at the references I’ve cited on other posts already and you will have the verification of this and then some, if you are indeed seeking a real answer.
And citing Traficant is VERY VERY VERRRRRY salient to this discussion, because Traficant was busted on those charges for the precise reason that, shortly before those charges were brought against him, he (apparently–I’ve not been able to confirm this) got up before congress and spilled his guts about the whole unlawful current U.S monetary system, and Traficant spoke the unspeakable–that the U.S. is broke, and that we have an unlawful monetary policy since 1913.
Here is what was reported to me Traficant said in front of congress. I have neither confirmed nor disproved whether this was true. My source also told me that the official congressional record has subsequently been changed, Orwellian-Memory-Hole-Style, something which, if true, would not surprise me in the least, but which of course those still on the gov’t information matrix will find as being “too convenient”.
Here again are the words of Traficant, as reported to me by a source which I personally trust:
Speaker: Representative James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:
“Mr. Speaker, we are here now in Chapter 11. Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization in world history, the U.S. Government.
We are setting forth hopefully, a blueprint for our future.
There are some who say it is a coroner’s report that will lead to our demise.
It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. HJR 192, 73rd Congress in session June 5, 1933 – Joint Resolution to Suspend the Gold Standard and Abrogate the Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments, and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.
The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank, and the International Monetary Fund.
All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under the Emergency War Powers.
With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government FOR the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America.
This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R.13955 reads in part:
‘The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States.’
Gold and silver were such a powerful money during the founding of the united states of America that the founding fathers declared that only gold or silver coins can be ‘money’ in America. Since gold and silver coinage were heavy and inconvenient for a lot of transactions, they were stored in banks and a claim check was issued as a money substitute.
People traded their coupons as money, or ‘currency.’ Currency is not money, but a money substitute. Redeemable currency must promise to pay a dollar equivalent in gold or silver money. Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) make no such promises and are not ‘money.’
A Federal Reserve Note is a debt obligation of the federal United States Government, not ‘money.’ The federal United States Government and the U.S. Congress were not and have never been authorized by the Constitution for the united states of America to issue currency of any kind, but only lawful money – gold and silver coin.
It is essential that we comprehend the distinction between real money and paper money substitute. One cannot get rich by accumulating money substitutes, one can only get deeper into debt. We the People no longer have any ‘money.’
Most Americans have not been paid any ‘money’ for a very long time, perhaps not in their entire life. Now do you comprehend why you feel broke? Now do you understand why you are ‘bankrupt,’ along with the rest of the country?
Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are unsigned checks written on a closed account. FRNs are an inflatable paper system designed to create debt through inflation (devaluation of currency). Whenever there is an increase of the supply of a money substitute in the economy without a corresponding increase in the gold and silver backing, inflation occurs.
Inflation is an invisible form of taxation that irresponsible governments inflict on their citizens. The Federal Reserve Bank who controls the supply and movement of FRNs has everybody fooled. They have access to an unlimited supply of FRNs, paying only for the printing costs of what they need. FRNs are nothing more than promissory notes for U.S. Treasury securities (T-bills) – a promise to pay the debt to the Federal Reserve Bank.
There is a fundamental difference between ‘paying’ and ‘discharging’ a debt. To pay a debt, you must pay with value or substance (i.e. gold, silver, barter or a commodity). With FRNs, you can only discharge a debt. You cannot pay a debt with a debt currency system. You cannot service a debt with a currency that has no backing in value or substance. No contract in Common Law is valid unless it involves an exchange of ‘good and valuable consideration.”
Unpayable debt transfers power and control to the sovereign power structure that has no interest in money, law, equity, or justice because they have so much wealth already.
Their lust is for power and control.
Since the inception of central banking, they have controlled the fates of nations.
The Federal Reserve System is based on the Canon law and the principles of sovereignty protected in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. In fact, the international bankers used a ‘Canon Law Trust’ as their model, adding stock and naming it a ‘Joint Stock Trust’ in 1873. The Federal Reserve Act was legislated post facto (to 1870), although post-facto laws are strictly forbidden by the Constitution (Article I, Section 9, Paragraph 3).
The Federal Reserve System is a sovereign power structure separate and distinct from the federal United States government. The Federal Reserve is a maritime lender, and/or maritime insurance underwriter to the federal United States operating exclusively under Admiralty/Maritime law. The lender or underwriter bears the risks, and the Maritime law compelling specific performance in paying the interest, or premiums, are the same.
Assets of the debtor can also be hypothecated (to pledge something as a security without taking possession of it) as security by the lender or underwriter. The Federal Reserve Act stipulated that the interest on the debt was to be paid in Gold. There was no stipulation in the Federal Reserve Act for ever paying the principal.
Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens or mortgages until the Federal Reserve Act (1913) ‘hypothecated’ all property within the federal United States to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, in which the Trustees (stockholders) held legal title. The U.S. citizen (tenant, franchisee) was registered as a ‘beneficiary’ of the trust via his/her birth certificate.
In 1933, the federal United States hypothecated all of the present and future properties, assets, and labor of their ’subjects,’ the 14th Amendment U.S. citizen, to the Federal Reserve System.
In return, the Federal Reserve System agreed to extend the federal United States corporation all the credit ‘money substitute’ it needed. Like any other debtor, the federal United States government had to assign collateral and security to their creditors as a condition of the loan.
Since the federal United States didn’t have any assets, they assigned the private property of their ‘economic slaves,’ the U.S. citizens as collateral against the unpayable federal debt. They also pledged the unincorporated federal territories, national park forests, birth certificates, and non-profit organizations as collateral against the federal debt.
All has already been transferred as payment to the international bankers.
Unwittingly, America has returned to its pre-American Revolution, feudal roots whereby all land is held by a Sovereign, and the common people had no rights to hold allodial title to property.
Once again, We the People are the tenants and sharecroppers renting our own property from a Sovereign in the guise of the Federal Reserve Bank.
We the People have exchanged one master for another.
This has been going on for over eighty years without the ‘informed knowledge’ of the American people, without a voice protesting loud enough.
Now it is easy to grasp why America is fundamentally bankrupt.
Why don’t more people own their properties outright?
Why are 90% of Americans mortgaged to the hilt and have little or no assets after all debts and liabilities have been paid?
Why does it feel like you are working harder and harder and getting less and less?
We are reaping what has been sown, and the results of our harvest is a painful bankruptcy, and a foreclosure on American property, precious liberties, and a way of life.
Few of our elected representatives in Washington, D.C. have dared to tell the truth. The federal United States is bankrupt. Our children will inherit this unpayable debt, and the tyranny to enforce paying it.
America has become completely bankrupt in world leadership, financial credit, and its reputation for courage, vision, and human rights.
This is an undeclared economic war, bankruptcy, and economic slavery of the most corrupt order.
Wake up, America! Take back your country.”
djhouk
Said this at 7:44pm:
——————————————————————————–
Maturekid,
I’m not sure I understand your comment about the U.S. being bankrupt. I’m also not sure that links quoting James Traficant are the most reliable source of information. Mr. Traficant was expelled from the House of Representatives and is now serving an 8 year term in Federal prison, for, among other things, taking bribes, filing false tax returns, and racketeering.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 1:43pm:Can’t remember if I added this, but it’s worth mentioning about Traficant:
One thing I DO know: IF Traficant did indeed speak such things, it is NO WONDER they threw him in jail. He’s lucky he wasn’t gunned down or something of that nature. Not even Rep. Ron Paul dares to be that candid about the reality of the current unlawful U.S. monetary system.
This is reality and welcome to it.
I realize nearly all of you will hate me for exposing these very unpleasant realities to you. It is only natural that you should. Check out Henrik Ibsen’s classic “An Enemy of the People”. Ibsen was a very astute student of human nature–especially fallen human nature.
evilution
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 3:11pm:Sapmire- Please consider this page “Harrods”. Your drawing room should be broke in by now. Thanks for being such a nice spot in our feast of charity. As for your buddy isaiah, he needs a good tanning behind the woodshed, apparently his dad never took care of his needs in that area… Truth is limmited to the truth, lies are boundless… toodle-doo
Samphire
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 4:18pm:Hello …….
Hello, Evilution …… anybody at home?
Apparently not.
Can anybody translate for me?
Sapmite? The h in Samphire is silent but should be present – as in filosofy. And, in England, the pm is an mp even though at any one time an mp only has a 1 in 646 chance of being the pm.
When you have solved the conundrum you qualify, Evilution, to move on to the next stage – not necessarily full enlightenment but, at least, some element of sobriety. In the meantime, get some sleep and drink plenty of water.
And please, don’t go anywhere near Isaiah, Apparently, he’s got a crane, a cement bucket and a murderous intent. I’ve already phoned the FBI about him but they tell me that he is quite harmless. I’m not so sure.
Toodle pip!
evilution
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 4:22pm:Gordon- The only ones to hate you for telling it like it is are the ones who are unable to do anything about it. Salvation comes with Chist, there is no other way, so those arent able to accept that dont want to know whats in store for them. Those who take Christ love the cold hard truth.
Maturekid
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 6:30pm:To all, if I miss anybody – sorry, there are a ton of really long posts above.
Matthew,
First, Thank you for the more civil tone. Next, you have made correct observations (in what you directed to me). Creator is ambiguous. I’m not going to get into that debate. As for the evolution thing, I’d recommend using much more current sources to cite. 1849 and 1874 is a bit dated for arguments in 2006/ 2007. Try something conclusive from the last 20 years or so.
darling,
It can be argued most of our Reps, Senators and White House elected officials (past and present) are candidates for jail. That’s not defending Traficant but he had an interesting line for a politician. The link provided gives source information to further dig into. I’m a bit of a skeptic in what most anyone says (sorting out the lies from truth is a full time job these days) on a fair number of topics. I would recommend getting more than just that one source to cite from though. For now, I’ll join Jason on the sidelines and watch the tennis match between you and Gordon. Hi Jason, what does the concession stand offer? Dang, gotta have a number to get that too…. grrr.
As for bankruptcy, at what financial point of debt does the US need to get to before we waive the white flag and just admit it? Politicians + Math = Accounting Migraine
Samphire – Could you use “boilerplate” and “swift-boat” in sentences? Could you mean broiler plate? As far as swift-boat, either that is a slang name for a long gravy dish or the river boats used by the US military in the Vietnam War or something else pending on region or ethnic usage. Also, from what part of the US is the slang term from? If you put a New Yorker, Southerner, MidWesterner, a Californian, various US ethnicities and a Brit together in a room, they wouldn’t understand each other. We need more clarification please.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 15th, 2006 at 8:13pm:Okay, darling, enough with the legal stuff. Clearly we are at an impasse there. If I may overgeneralize a bit, much of it boils down to this: You can cite court decisions and other documents and such from after the dread 1913 date, I can cite court decisions and other documents and such from before that date.
Now, instead of flogging a dead horse, I would simply like to ask you something. You, personally, darling. And though it may sound sarcastic, I assure you it is not. I ask this with the utmost sincerity. My question is this:
“Why do you hate personal liberty?”
Some honest and acceptable answers which I would accept to that question (disagree with the philosophy behind it though I would) would be:
“Because I am a papist.”
“Because I am a monarchist.”
“Because I am a fascist.”
“Because I am a communist.”
“Because I am a socialist.”
“Because I am a totalitarian.”
Those are really the only ones I know offhand (though perhaps I’ve forgotten one?); I may learn something new here, but in all my walk upon this earth so far, I haven’t seen too many other categories of gov’t which people who despise liberty adhere to. These types of people want to be ruled; whereas anarchists, libertarians, and to a lesser degree, constitutional republicans prefer to rule themselves. My hunch is that, if you were brutally honest, you’d admit to the second to last, admit that you were/are a socialist. And I would thank you for your honest answer, and would thereupon drop the subject, though of course I’d still maintain (to myself) that no socialist gov’t can ever cease from eventually slipping into communism, any easier than any capitalist gov’t can ever cease from eventually slipping into fascism.
Now, darling, lest you try it, here are some answers that would not be acceptable as answers to my question:
“I am a secularist.” (We already know that, darling; but that doesn’t tell us what type of gov’t you would prefer, anymore than my telling you I’m a Christian would tell you my preferred gov’t.)
“I am an atheist.” (See above: secularist).
“I am an evolutionist, or materialist, or naturalist, etc.” (See above: secularist).
“I am a person who loves or prefers to follow the law.” (darling, please don’t use this any form of this one on me or we’ll get nowhere; because, as I stated at the start of this message, you and I utterly disagree about the law, so if you respond with this, you might as well cite some other non-sequiter to me, it will have been that meaningless.)
Okay, so having typed all that, I will reiterate my question. I am sincerely interested in your answer, darling, and shall not ridicule it in any way. I won’t even respond other than to perhaps say “Thanks,” and then move on. How’s that?
Here goes:
“Darling, why do you hate personal liberty?”
Matthew
Said this on December 16th, 2006 at 8:12am:MatureKid,
What references were out of date? Want more recent? Okay.
In an October 2001 report by biologists at University of Toronto and a zoology institute in Germany, water fleas developed a pointy helmet in response to chemical compounds released by predatory fish. From the Science Year 2003, pg 231.
Here is a report done on Darwin’s finches have been observed in real-time evolutionary changes in one species driven by competition for resources from another.
Norwegian brother
Said this on December 16th, 2006 at 3:22pm:Hey Brother Hovind!
I will pray for Gods will with you overthere!
Your last letter from inside, made me cry; told me that God is with you (who can then be against
2cor-12:10: Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then am I strong.
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all in there! Amen.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 16th, 2006 at 7:33pm:Darling, Samphire, you other guys who aren’t yet out of the unlawful gov’t’s information trough yet–
here, let me help you guys out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3388799387341337020&q=monopoly+men&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198&hl=en
Once again, it’s free. They’re free. I know you won’t bother with any of the books I’ve cited, so would you please check out these two movies that won’t cost you anything?
–G.C.
p.s. Please pay particular attention to the first movie, called “Monopoly Men.” In fact if you watched either one, I’d prefer you saw that. It’s shorter, and the information on it is what really makes the second movie (“Freedom to Fascism”) irrefutable, although the second one also tells the same story. “Monopoly Men” is just so wonderfully succinct. It’s 47 minutes that will leave you with one heckuvan ugly epiphany about the current U.S. system. Still, ugly or not, if you’d rather have the ugly truth rather than continue to live in ignorant bliss, the truth is right there for you. If you dare face it.
Jason
Said this on December 16th, 2006 at 8:47pm:Hi Maturekid,
What does the concession stand offer? I don’t usually do verse’s but this seemed good for me.
Mat 11:25-30 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (26) Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
(27) All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
My quick paraphrase of these verses is this;
You can argue till you are blue in the face with some people, but unless “it is”, (God is) revealed to them (their eyes are opened), they just won’t see.
I have a friend who has a degree in philosophy, and there is no way “what so ever” that I can speak even the simplest of messages to him. There is always another argument.
I believe it’s also said that, it was quite some time after the Titanic struck the iceberg before some people finally stopped arguing that the ship couldn’t sink.
People have to have their own personal revelation before they finally wake up.
And here is the rest…..
(28) Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
___________________________________________________
And now for something completely different…
I might have known about God for a while but this waking up business is still a bit new to me, I typed into Google Video the words ” fema camp “, and looked up ” rex 84 ” and I was disturbed by my findings, what do you think?
Jason x
Geno
Said this on December 17th, 2006 at 10:20am:Blogs such as this are simply poorly structured for conduct of a debate. This is because their format is not friendly to an ongoing exchange of ideas due to the need to scroll thru hundreds of messages to get to those that are relevant. Therefore, I am unlikely to engage in serious or lengthy debates here.
“Yahoogroups.com” provides a much better format for conducting a debate as one e-mail to the group is forwarded to all group members who can reply or discard the mail as they choose. There is a Hovind-friendly group at “yahoogroups” called “KentHovindRocks”. I will be delighted to engage any and all comers there. On that group, I am known as “Piasan”.
Further, I suggest to CSE that they may wish to open their own group at “Yahoogroups”. Yahoogroups allows controls that permit lists to be run like blogs. These controls range from “owner-only” allowed to post to a complete free-for-all with posts being released to the list members in seconds. This suggestion is being made here because I don’t have a means to contact CSE authorities with it directly.
Hopefully, a CSE official will read these suggestions and take them into consideration.
Geno
Said this on December 17th, 2006 at 11:15am:Gordon_Comstock writes:
Geno, not only are you mistaken in this assertion (for example, the 1894 Pollock Case the U.S. Supreme Court ruled exactly the opposite),
*************
Geno replies:
I said “many times”, not “every time”. Further, I note that the case you cite was before the 16th Amendment. The fact is that the purpose of the 16th was to deal with objections to income tax made by the Supreme Court (partly in the 1894 case you cite).
The Supreme Court has accepted the validity of the 16th Amendment and its ratification. This is evidenced by the fact that they have ruled on that amendment hundreds of times and not once have they questioned the validity of it. In fact, one of the very first rulings by the Court on the 16th Amendment involved a federal judge who challenged the constitutionality of Congress taxing his income which was protected by the constitution from being reduced. (Evans v. Gore, 1920). He lost.
Now, if you were able to cite a case in which the USSC ruled the 16th amendment invalid, then you would have a point.
**********
Gordon writes:
but you are forgetting that, for a long time in this country, the Supreme Court also ruled that black people weren’t people; that they were mere property.
Do you still stick by and defend that one, Geno?
Yessir, it took a lot of God-fearing, grass roots-moving Christian Americans to finally put their foot down and tell the Supreme Court they were wrong, that the Supreme Court was violating the Declaration of Independence.
**********
Geno replies:
No, I’m not forgetting that one.
First, the courts ruled that SLAVES (not “black people”) were property. You are forgetting that black people in “free” states were not considered property, nor were freed slaves in slave states.
Second, it was not “a lot of God-fearing, grass roots-moving Christian Americans” who changed that. It was the Civil War; the Emancipation Proclamation (Which, BTW, freed only slaves in states that were in “rebillion” against the Union. Slaves in states such as Maryland were not freed.); and the 14th Amendment to the Constitution that changed that. In fact, as recently as the 1960’s, “god-fearing, grass roots-moving Christian Americans” in the southern states were restricting the rights of black Americans using their understanding to the Bible to support their position.
**********
Gordon:
In matters of U.S. law, we need to cling fast to the U.S. Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land, not fickle judges who’ve come and gone since then, exchanging mores like wallpaper in their bathrooms.
***********
Geno:
Indeed. And the US Constitution grants the ultimate authority to interpret it to the United States Supreme Court. Not you. Not me. Not Kent Hovind.
Don’t like that? Change it. The Constitution provides a process for change as well as for removing those “fickle judges”.
************
Gordon:
And while we cling fast to that U.S. Constitution, we need to guard it, protect it, against illegal parasitization which seeks to destroy it’s original black and white, cut and dried intent–such parasitizations as the 16th Amendment, which was NEVER LEGALLY RATIFIED, and the accompanying criminal “Federal” Reserve Act, which, illegally, was put through without any bother or attempt at the Amendment process.
***********
Pi:
The Unites States Supreme Court, which is empowered by the United States Constitution with the ultimate authority to make such a determination, seems to disagree with you and has done so consistently through many courts over some 90 (or so) years.
What is your constitutional authority to make such a decision? Why should I accept your “ruling” over theirs? For what it’s worth, and as I see it, you, and those like you, seek to place yourselves above the Constitution. In doing so, you do not guard and protect the Constitution…. You destroy it.
Gordon has his views, Hovind has his, and I have mine. But the ultimate authority on this issue is not one of us, but the Supreme Court of the United States of America. They have spoken. The 16th Amendment is valid. The 16th Amendment has been ratified. The matter is settled.
I see no point in continuing this particular subject.
Geno
Said this on December 17th, 2006 at 12:19pm:Iago writes:
Geno could you, or any one else sticking up for the title 26 show us the law that requires us to file, or pay ??? Every one wants to defend taxes, but no one will show us the law. Please some one show us so we dont have to argue about it .and please read this and tell me what u think
**********
Geno replies:
Understand this: I am no fan of the IRS or of taxes and I don’t like paying them more than anyone else. However, we do have laws requiring us to pay taxes, and it is the responsibility of each and every one of us to do so. If you don’t pay your taxes and/or obey the law, then you should pay the consequences.
As I pointed out before, Hovind’s case could not have gone to trail without him being charged with specific illegal acts. While I do not have the indictment, I was able to locate the specific charges of which he was convicted:
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind
“twelve counts of willful failure to collect, account for, and pay over Federal income taxes and FICA taxes under 26 U.S.C. § 7202, forty-five counts of knowingly structuring transactions in Federally-insured financial institutions to evade the reporting requirements of 31 U.S.C. § 5313(a), in violation of 31 U.S.C. § 5324, 18 U.S.C. § 2 and 31 C.F.R. sec. 103.11, and one count of corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws under 26 U.S.C. § 7212″
(Yeah, I realize the Hovindites will not like the “wikipedia” article very much. I present it only because it lists the specific offenses with which Mr. Hovind was charged so it answers Iago’s question.)
One thing that comes to mind here is an old lawyer saying: “If your client is innocent argue the facts, if he is guilty argue the law.” The argument over the facts is virtually non-existant. Indeed, when Hovind’s opportunity came to argue them, his defense was silent on the matter. It seems the facts are not in dispute.
*********
Iago:
Is it Lawful to Give Tribute unto Caesar, or Not?
The phrase, “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s” is probably the one of the most misinterpreted phrase in the New Testament. Most people read this and think that Jesus is saying, “Give Caesar your money and give God your soul. ” In this article, I’ll attempt to show you that the above interpretation of Jesus’ statement is not a correct interpretation and that Jesus was actually saying that is was not lawful (at that time and place) to give Caesar anything. Let us look at this scripture more closely. Pay close attention to each verse.
Matthew 22:15-22
Luke 20:19-26
1. The Pharisees knew the law. They knew that Jesus knew the law. Why did they think that they could have Jesus arrested, by His answer, if it was [Biblically] lawful to pay taxes to Caesar?
2. If Jesus said, “Yes, Give Caesar your money…” and nobody “laid hands” on Him, nor did the crowd leave Him, then that wasn’t a very good trap they set for Him.
3. And why did they marvel at this answer? Why did they hold their peace? (Whatever Jesus said to them was more of a shocker than “Yes, Give Caesar your money and God your soul.”)
*********
Geno comments:
Indeed, the Pharasees set a trap. They tried to put Jesus in a “Catch-22″ position where anything He said could be used against Him. His response was (politically) a master stroke.
**********
Iago:
Other Things to Keep in Mind
1. The Pharisees asked Jesus, “Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar”. This statement clearly shows us that just because a government “passes laws” does not make these laws “lawful”.
*******
Geno:
Yet Jesus did not say to withold “tribute” and He said nothing at all about the “legality” of the laws requiring taxes.
*******
Iago:
The Setting
The Trap
That leaves nothing left for Caesar.
*********
Pi:
Then, according to you, no one should pay any taxes. Understand this, though… “Caesar” will then extract his penalty for doing so. That, of course, is what is happening to Hovind today.
*********
Iago:
Then Jesus answered the Pharisees in a nature that was typical of Jesus. His answer was so clear to everyone that knew the Old Testament (the Jews) but, just as it is not clear to many people today, it was not clear enough to the Roman soldiers for them to arrest Him. (Jesus was not afraid of getting arrested, but He was not going to let Satan decide on when and where.)
**********
Geno:
Obviously, Hovind is not as clever as Jesus was. Hovind knew that his rebellion is clear enough for the “soldiers” to arrest him. He has made his choice, let him accept the consequences.
**********
Iago:
So, should we pay taxes to our King? The answer is “Yes”. We should pay taxes to whom we pledge our allegiance to. The question is, “Who do you pledge your allegiance to and what Kingdom do you claim your citizenship?”
**********
Geno:
I pledge my corporal allegiance to the United States of America and my spiritual allegiance to God and Jesus Christ. They are not mutually exclusive.
***********
Iago:
Also see Didn’t Jesus pay taxes? and Romans 13.
thanks again geno please tell me what you think
ps . I did my time in the army , and I hope you like my spelling better.
*********
Pi:
Ahh…. a ground pounder. For myself, I was a “bubble head” (submarine sailor). There are only two kinds of ships in the world. Submarines and targets.
Yes, Iago, the spelling (and grammar) are much better. Now I know I’m discussing these matters with an intelligent, competent, and knowledgable person rather than a high school kid who thinks he knows everything. Thank you very much.
(BTW, as a high school science teacher, I see a lot of that high school stuff every day. Quick, hire a teenager while they still know everything.)
Oh yeah… I did teach evolution.
Geno
Said this on December 17th, 2006 at 12:31pm:Rea wrote:
About 10 years ago, I got a letter from the IRS telling me to be at a certain place at a certain time to answer questions about my tax return. Like the good trusting citizen I am, I went ready to cooperate. It was a nightmare of them accusing me of all sorts of things and I had no idea what they were talking about.
Geno comments:
I have had three such “invitations” from the IRS.
The first one was when I claimed 23 dependants for witholding purposes. Keep in mind that “dependants” are used to have your witholding in close agreement with your actual taxes due. Since I had very large interest deductions, I was entitled to the “dependants”. The IRS wanted something like $1800. I paid about $120 because I had calculated depreciation on the property incorrectly. The number of “dependants” was unchanged.
The second time, they wanted $23,000. They got $2000 which they allowed me to pay at $100 per month. (I would have gotten money back, but the statute of limitations had expired on a refund due me.)
The third time, I had claimed real estate to be a total 100% write off. I owned some land in Hawaii which had been paved over by Kiluea. The agent didn’t want to give me a 100% write off pointing out what is in real estate a general maxim…. that land always has SOME value. He asked if the land could be used for something and I replied that in 300-400 years it might be able to grow a few scrub bushes. Then I produced a disaster statement from the County of Hawaii declaring the land had no value. That settled it. His comment was that in 20 years, he had never granted a 100% write off for land and he now had something to talk about at break. End result… no change.
My experience has been that the IRS wants all of the money due the government. No more. No less. Further, if you will work with them, they will (for the most part) work with you.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 18th, 2006 at 10:16am:Evilution,
thanks for your vote of confidence.
GC
xchampion91
Said this on December 18th, 2006 at 1:18pm:Gordon – I think I was unclear in my statement about “Lets all get along”. I am only trying to get folks to talk without hate (I know that that may be impossible), I agree that as Christians we are to be salt and light and salt is an irritant and I agree we should irritate. But lets irritate without becoming like these anti-creationists that like to sound out on this blog site. But God bless you and the others who are trying to tell the truth.
Samphire – I will pray for your soul. And I encourage everyone to cease answering or debating you. We’ve tried to wash the blood from our hands and now it is up to you.
A good link for info regarding end time prophecy is http://www.kjv1611revealed.com. My step-father who recently posted on one of the blogs at CSEBlogs had created it a few years ago and has done a great job at showing where it all leads to – The catholic church – “that scarlet colored beast.”
Samphire
Said this on December 18th, 2006 at 5:40pm:Maturekid
Said this at 6:30pm:
“Samphire – Could you use “boilerplate” and “swift-boat” in sentences? Could you mean broiler plate? As far as swift-boat, either that is a slang name for a long gravy dish or the river boats used by the US military in the Vietnam War or something else pending on region or ethnic usage. Also, from what part of the US is the slang term from? If you put a New Yorker, Southerner, MidWesterner, a Californian, various US ethnicities and a Brit together in a room, they wouldn’t understand each other. We need more clarification please.”
Thanks, Maturekid.
I cannot give you any quotations. I have come across the two words in American on-line newspapers mainly.
“Boilerplate” I think would be used like this “After the usual boilerplate he got down to explaining the problem in detail” but for “swiftboat” I can give you no example. Two nations separated by a common language” no longer seems to hold sway; language evolves so fast these days!
Kind regards
Samphire
Samphire
Said this on December 18th, 2006 at 6:41pm:xchampion91
Said this at 1:18pm:
“Gordon – I think I was unclear in my statement about “Lets all get along”. I am only trying to get folks to talk without hate (I know that that may be impossible), I agree that as Christians we are to be salt and light and salt is an irritant and I agree we should irritate. But lets irritate without becoming like these anti-creationists that like to sound out on this blog site. But God bless you and the others who are trying to tell the truth.”
If I may butt in, xchampion91, most if not all non-christians who have contributed to this page have been fairly polite and I would wish they continue to be so. It is the scripture-quoting fundamentalists who have expressed the nastiest sentiments.
“Samphire – I will pray for your soul.”
Thank you, you are very kind. It was Francis Galton, a cousin of Charles Darwin, who wrote that “the Royal Family must be the fittest people in the entire land as the whole nation prays for them each Sunday”. So, thank you again, but perhaps it would be better for you not to bother.
“And I encourage everyone to cease answering or debating you. We’ve tried to wash the blood from our hands and now it is up to you.”
Why – what are you afraid of? All I have done is pose some rational questions but to which few, if any, have received rational answers.
“A good link for info regarding end time prophecy is http://www.kjv1611revealed.com. My step-father who recently posted on one of the blogs at CSEBlogs had created it a few years ago and has done a great job at showing where it all leads to – The catholic church – “that scarlet colored beast.””
Would that be Mr Laird – the man who mistook the Roman Catholic Church for a boiled lobster?
“Will you walk a little faster?” said a whiting to a snail.
“There’s a porpoise close behind us, and he’s treading on my tail.
See how eagerly the lobsters and the turtles all advance!
They are waiting on the shingle – will you come and join the dance?
Will you, won’t you, will you, won’t you, will you join the dance?
Will you, won’t you, will you, won’t you, won’t you join the dance?
“You can really have no notion how delightful it will be
When they take us up and throw us, with the lobsters, out to sea!”
But the snail replied “Too far, too far!” and gave a look askance -
Said he thanked the whiting kindly, but he would not join the dance.
Would not, could not, would not, could not, would not join the dance.
Would not, could not, would not, could not, could not join the dance.
“What matters it how far we go?” his scaly friend replied.
“There is another shore, you know, upon the other side.
The further off from England the nearer is to France -
Then turn not pale, beloved snail, but come and join the dance.
Will you, won’t you, will you, won’t you, will you join the dance?
Will you, won’t you, will you, won’t you, won’t you join the dance?”
– Lewis Carroll
Maturekid
Said this on December 18th, 2006 at 9:53pm:Samphire,
I found the one regarding “boilerplate”. The origin of it comes from the definition of boilerplate as it refers to text. Specifically, the slang is derived from “legal boilerplate”.
boilerplate n., adj. slang for provisions in a contract, form or legal pleading which are apparently routine and often preprinted. The term comes from an old method of printing. Today “boilerplate” is commonly stored in computer memory to be retrieved and copied when needed. A layperson should beware that the party supplying the boilerplate form usually has developed supposedly “standard” terms (some of which may not apply to every situation) to favor and/or protect the provider.
So in terms of the sentence you provided, the “boilerplate” is all of that fluff a person has to officially say at the start of a meeting or reading of a document before getting to the details everyone cares about. Roughly put, imagine you are in a meeting that you’ve been in 20+ times already. It starts out the same way everytime sucking up 15 minutes. The “blah blah blah” section you’ve heard everytime is the “boilerplate”.
Found swiftboat too.
Noun turned into a verb from the 2004 presidential election. Candidate John Kerry was a member of a Swiftboat patrol boat in the Navy during the Vietnam War. During his campaign, a Swiftboat related political group attempted political sabotage, effecting the verbalization of “Swiftboat”.
I was partially right on my first shot.
Two helpful websites: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ and http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/
Next linguistic challenge? My wife has 7 languages under her belt and learning 2 more. I’m only at 2 and learning 2 more. We definitely know how much fun languages can be. Like needing to know what a bottle in the shower says before using the contents when only French directions are given.
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 18th, 2006 at 11:06pm:Samphire,
Being able to use the phrase “conspiracy theory” in no way places you above them, or the people who actually do the research to see if the things are true or not.
Contrastly, when somebody does a knee-jerk reaction and uses that phrase so quickly, it is a pretty good indication for me of the level of brainwashing they’ve been subjected to by the major media disinfo grid.
Regards,
Gord
Hi Gordon,
Please excuse me but I have no wish to engage with you in anyway whatsoever or with your tediously boring and witless conspiracy theories. It’s for the same reason I no longer shop at Harrods.
Regards
Samphire
darling
Said this on December 19th, 2006 at 7:55am:“Specific, Darling, specific. No snow jobs.”
said Gordon_Comstock after providing a snow job of his own. So I’ll pick just a couple from the list.
“book-”The Creature from Jekyll Island” by G. Edward Griffin”
I think your post on Dec13 at 8:42pm sums up the conspiracy angle nicely.
“book-”The Federal Reserve Conspiracy and the Rockefellers” by Emmanuel Josephson”
Hmm… haven’t read this particular one, but something tells me it’s about the Federal Reserve *Conspiracy*
“book-”The Law that Never Was” by Bill Benson”
Asked and answered. See my post on Dec15 at 8:16am.
Feel free to address any of the specifics. I see lots of hand waving and personal attacks and reapeating your original argument and all that good stuff. But that doesn’t change the fact that no court has held or will hold that the Internal Revenue Code is invalid or that the Internal Revenue Service lacks power to levy or collect income taxes.
I won’t be in this thread, I’m moving on to the next one. Oh, one last thing:
Gordon_Comstock said this at 8:13pm Dec15:
“darling… why do you hate personal liberty?”
Why do you still beat your wife?
Samphire
Said this on December 19th, 2006 at 8:44am:Hi, Maturekid
Thanks very much for those two definitions – I’m very grateful for your trouble.
Both words are very vivid. I’ll try to slip them both into a single sentence one of these days and see if anybody notices.
Good luck with the French. The days I could read a label on a bottle in the shower, even in English, are long gone.
And I wondered why I had so few languages to my name – your wife has taken them all. Perhaps I should become a Pentecostalist and make them up as I go along.
Kind regards
Samphire
Maturekid
Said this on December 19th, 2006 at 1:20pm:Samphire,
Actually, my wife would have liked to have known the French word that looks like Shampoo actually meant permanent hair dye. 1 1/2 years later and it isn’t gone yet.
Hope she doesn’t read this one. I’m gonna get smacked for it.
Enjoy,
Maturekid
Gordon_Comstock
Said this on December 19th, 2006 at 4:03pm:Yes, I was wondering if you would use these exact words in your response, and you did. Well, language that appears to you to be grossly skewed was and is only slightly so to me. Because you do hate personal freedom. It’s all over everything you’ve posted so far. But, if you insist…
Very well, I will rephrase the question:
“Darling, what is it about personal liberty that you find unappealing?”
darling said:
Why do you still beat your wife?
Darling, I’ll see you on that other post a bit later; given that you have announced your decision to retreat from this field of ideological battle. For now though, as you have left me the field, I’ll just have the last word herein then, shall I? Very well.
Darling, you are full of smart-alecky comments and vague and likely false claims about researching the alternative sources I have cited. You still lack any shred of specifics any your rebuttal to any of my sources. What am I to conclude from that–that you bear false witness? You tell me.
And should you again refuse to answer my question about your obvious hatred of personal liberty, Darling, let me answer it for you: I submit to, Darling, that you are a socialist. Whether you know it or not, whether you would admit it even if you did know it, and whether you call it by some other euphemism, I submit you are a socialist. Fine, a collectivist then. Whatever. THIS is why you abhor personal liberty for Americans.
You are a product of the Rockefeller/Carnegie/Dewey subverted school system. The Rockefeller, Carnegie and Ford Foundations–gallingly enough as tax exempt institutions (something which should even get YOUR goat, Darling)–have for the past century paid millions upon millions of dollars toward socialist one-world causes, socialist one-world front organizations, and have given millions and millions to establish socialistic globalistic “teacher colleges”, starting with Columbia U., and growing cancer-like from there to Chicago U., Berkeley, Harvard, Yale, etc–all with the idea to brainwash American teachers toward socialism at the expense of the literal original intent of the Founding Fathers’ U.S. Constitution. These subverted teachers have since, for the past three or four generations, have been carrying the infection of subversion to their students, of which you are one.
How did escape the brainwashing? I’d tell you if you’re interested, but I doubt you are.
Read the book “Foundations: Their Power and Influence” by Rene Wormser (he throws out there plaintively, futilely…throws his hands up, “why-botheringly”…).
Christian Soldier
Said this on December 25th, 2006 at 8:02pm:Samphire
As you can see I don’t have alot of time for answering questions.
But I will answer your question, no my handle on here does not come from the hymn, it comes from one of the verses
she used to write the hymn which is:
2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
which ofcourse hangs together with:
2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
for if the true Christians warred after the flesh like the heathen Roman Catholics then all enemies would be dead by now (them Catholics aren’t
very good soldiers). Sure that would make things abit easier but not near as interesting.
And also remember this spiritual verse that Lord Jesus Christ said:
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Christians are at war with the world constantly just as you are at war with us and you are at war with God. I find no other good reason for your continued war with words on here. So it’s a rather fitting name don’t you think? See you at eyes wide shut and say hi to your father the devil and remind him of the fire, it makes him happy to hear about the fire he’s going roast in.
Samphire
Said this on December 27th, 2006 at 1:10am:Christian Soldier
Said this at 8:02pm:
“Samphire
Christians are at war with the world constantly just as you are at war with us and you are at war with God. I find no other good reason for your continued war with words on here. So it’s a rather fitting name don’t you think? See you at eyes wide shut and say hi to your father the devil and remind him of the fire, it makes him happy to hear about the fire he’s going roast in.”
Hi, CS,
I am not at war with Christians, Muslims or those of any faith – only blind ignorance of which your final comment is an exemplar.