“The Things Which Have Happened Unto Me” Philippians 1:12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
January 25, 2007
The last six months of my life have been both a challenge and a blessing at the same time. July 13, 2006, the day before my thirty-third anniversary, my wife and I were arrested without notice or warning that the IRS thought we were doing something unlawful. We were shocked to say the least—and even more shocked when the jury found us guilty.
Our attorneys had advised us not to even give a defense because they were confident that the government had not proven its case. Well, that is water under the bridge.
Last week the judge sentenced me to ten years and delayed sentencing on my wife until March 6th. Some details of the case are on www.penaltyprotestor.org. There is still a great chance the case will be overturned on appeal for multiple reasons, but that is in God’s hands.
Previous blogs record the Lord working in the jail. So far, sixteen men have trusted Christ for salvation. The spiritual need in here is staggering to the mind. I encourage everyone to get involved in, or at least support a jail ministry. I know that some are “stony ground” but some “will bear much fruit.”
When Paul was arrested (who knows which time), he wrote to the Philippians that his arrest resulted in three things.
1. The furtherance of the gospel (v. 12)
2. Political peers heard the gospel in the palace and in all other places (v. 13)
3. Believers were made more bold to speak the word (v. 14)
What more could a preacher want? Judging from the blogs our ministry has received, many people are spreading the creation message and winning souls even more since my arrest. One man wrote and said, “When I realized you were not out preaching, God impressed on me to spread the message in your place. I had gotten your slides some time ago, but now I’m using them to preach on creation.”
I know many of you have asked for more details that show our side. The time will come when we will be able to share that information. In the meantime, to those of you who are praying for us and supporting us during this trying time we say, “Thank you.” To those who do not know the whole story but have condemned us as evil doers anyway, please read Job 42:7-8 and Proverbs 18:13.
Eric has done a great job managing things in my absence. He continues to do creation seminars as well. Dinosaur Adventure Land is still open for Winter Park hours, Thursday through Saturday, 10:00 – 5:00. The park hosted about 80 this past Saturday. The spirit of the CSE Team is good, and we still get daily reports of souls saved and lives changed by the simple message of God’s incredible creation. Please keep praying as we continue to learn how all this is for God’s glory.
In Esther chapter three, we see the Jews had already been condemned and sentenced when God stepped in. See Esther chapter seven for the results.
Keep an eye on the blog site for updates to see God at work in this story. I am still in jail, but the Lord’s church is praying. Read Acts 12:5 and see what happens when the church prays for the preacher.
More later,
Kent Hovind
GaryMurray Said this Feb 15 at 4:09pm –
JohnLakes, here is my issue with your reply to my post… My post was 4 pages long in Microsoft Word. It was full of legitimate evidence which presented the speed of light isn’t a constant…..I guess what I’m saying is you lunged, only when you saw an opportunity at weakness, but you never even touched on the overall topic.
Gary,
I apologize for not replying to the overall topic of your post (Feb. 14 at 8:58am). I didn’t realize that was a requirement. To make things right, here is my comment about the rest of your post;
I found it quite unremarkable, typical circular apologetics. There is no point in arguing with your statements, as your reasoning is based on The Bible proving The Bible.
BTW, my reply was to a post, in which you wrote nothing about the speed of light.
GaryMurray Said this Feb 15 at 4:09pm -
I thought it was an interesting point to be given to believing csebloggers.
OK, the next time I read one of your posts, I will regard anything marked with “NOTE:” is only for the eyes/minds of Believers&trade.
Also, I now know that;
- For Believers&trade: A referenced Bible verse (context not required) provides strong and indisputable evidence* that The Bible is scientifically accurate.
- For the rest of us (Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Catholics, Hindi, Believers&trade with non-KJV® Bibles, etc.): A referenced Bible verse (context from non-referenced verses required) cannot be held to any scientific accuracy or scrutiny, and the verse(s) can only be read for the metaphors**.
Samphire,
Thank you for your well written comments, they will be missed. Oh, and make sure you cash all those checks from the NCSE, I understand that “the end is near……”
JohnLake
*Because The Bible says so!
**Unless a Certified Believer&trade tell us otherwise.
McGurk said: You can argue and explain about the tax matters all you want, but IN THE EYES OF THE UNSAVED WORLD
Mr. Hovind is just another greedy televangelist.
In the eyes of the unsaved world the apostles were ignorant fools and Jesus was a deluded liar (despite the fact they paid their taxes – a lot of good that did!). Since when should we care what the devil’s crowd thinks of us if we are doing right by God?
The people who think he is a greedy televangelist are willfully ignorant. Bro. Hovind allows people to copy his videos for free. Untold thousands of reproductions are floating around that Hovind hasn’t made a cent off, in fact they prevented him from making money that he rightfully earned.
Bro. Hovind put the money back into the ministry and has plans for further growth. He lives in the same modest house and drives the same modest cars. He doesn’t live like a rich man, he lives modestly. Anyone who doubts this should travel to his place in Pensacola and check it out. If you haven’t checked it out firsthand, here is an admonition for you to shut up until you do:
“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” Proverbs 18:13
CMarychurch:
My mother and father taught me many useful things. They taught me about God, they brought me up on the rock, the word of God, the Bible. They gave me a good example of how to live your life as a Christian, how the road to happieness and life was through Love and Charity. How eternal life was very simple but that some of the worlds richest and most “intelligent” men and women would find it the hardest to get there. (I’m not condemning anyone to hell here by the way – God is the only righteous judge of mankind).
They also taught me many things of common sence and humanitarian value, such as manners, looking before you leap, listening to other peoples opinions, dont judge a book by its cover, and much more. One thing in specific that always stuck in my mind was: If you havent got anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. Of course we all, myself included, arent perfect and I’m sure we have all said things we probably shouldnt have. We are all sinners.
However, some of the comments CMarychurch has been posting on here are not simply slips of the tongue, it seems to me that he is deliberately & actively persecuting Kent Hovind. This strikes me as being some kind of personal vendetta held against him by CMarychurch as he hasnt come on this blog searching for answers, truth or a positive debate, just to put him down as much as possible.
I must say this CMarychurch if you are reading, if your parents or gaurdians didnt teach you some of these fundamental values as a child its not too late. If you have been deprived of a decent upbringing, deprived of love and charity its not too late. Even if you have strayed so far from what is right, what is good, and the truth you cant even distinguish what is right anymore, its not too late.
God loves you, he loves you so much he even sent his only begotten son to die for us. All you have to do is believe in Jesus and recognise you are a sinner. (John 3:16) For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ. Salvation is a gift, it is gained through grace and faith, not of works.
I just wish people would get off Kent Hovinds back for a change, stop wasting there time trying to drag him down and take that very same time and put it into something positive.
I have thought of a few activites for anyone here who comes to blast Kent Hovind. (You really are wasting your time trying to discredit, blacken and tarr his name – the people who know the true God, the God of Love, do not need mans blessings and aprovals to listen to what the Lord has to say through his prophets, servants and children.)
Activity #1 : Go take your dog for an extra long walk if you have one, im sure the added exercise wont be bad for the both of you.
Activity #2 : Ask your family, neighbours or friends if they need your help or assistance at all in any way shape or form.
Activity #3 : Go clean your house from top to bottom, even if youve already cleaned, I’m sure theres some dirt lurking around somewhere that you’ve missed.
Activity #4 : Take a walk to your local shops and smile at everyone you come accross, even stop and talk to one of them if you feel the urge.
Activity #5 : Make a telephone call to one of your friends, family, or loved ones just to tell them you care about them and keep them in your thoughts.
Activity #6 : Go back and think of all the comments, posts, blogs etc you have made recently which were in a negative attitude, then try to take on the attitude of “the glass is half full” instead of “the glass is half empty” and go back and repost or requote.
Activity #7 : Pray this simple prayer of salvation below and watch your life, outlook and attitude change before your very eyes:
Dear Lord, I know I am a tiny spec in comparison to the greatness of the universe. I know I have done things that I probably shouldnt have in my life, that I have hurt others and have hurt you. I recognise that I am a sinner and that I need forgiveness. I pray right here and now that you will give me your free gift of salvation through your son Jesus Christ. Please come into my heart and life and help me to love you and to love others, please shine through me so that your love can reach others, even through little old me. In Jesus name, Amen.
I could carry on but I have to go now.
God bless and keep you all, all my love,
Sam.
Hi Fumanchu
I appreciate you being honest about your feelings towards Kent Hovind, although I don’t recall asking anyone to like him. Your list of criticisms of his character are interesting, I’m sure it won’t be any surprise to you that I find at least a few of them unfair, however if that’s what you believe, I don’t see any requirement on my part to try and redeem him to your eyes.
I wonder what’s God’s opinion of Kent is? (given that he exists, (Christian view)). I would guess that God (knowing everything), could write a list of things to condemn Kent Hovind that would put your list to shame.
The list would not only condemn Kent Hovind, but probably every member of his family tree going right back to Adam. (I suspect God’s list about me (as an individual) would be longer than Kent’s 
)
I thought I was in agreement with most atheists in believing it is impossible to prove a faith based belief using purely naturalistic scientific investigation. Therefore, I don’t believe it would be any surprise to you that I might feel I could argue that my daughter, without any real training or qualification can and does find large holes in the evolutionary faith and reasoning. All this just by asking questions and seeking answers.
I like Kent Hovind, I like that he allows you to copy his work (maybe you wouldn’t want to), however, lots of Christian teachers charge for their work, and there is no way around the copywrite without breaking the law.
Neither Kent nor his ministry has received a single penny from myself or family. His work has been given freely to me & my family, & I am grateful (maybe one day I might give on a monetary level, but for now I give my support verbally).
There are a few media personalities which I too find distasteful, so I relate (to an extent) to your feelings. When I come across people who I don’t agree with or their style grates upon me, I don’t tune in, watch or generally get involved, I don’t see the point in being irritated.
Is there a hope that there could be a discussion, between us, not based upon tit for tat arguments?
I might not agree with your faith in evolution, but i’m sort of hoping there may be more to be gaind by this dialog than a fruitless exchange of words between two people out of 6.5 billoin people worldwide.
Question, most of the world believes in something spiritual in one way or another. Do you think scientists are completely right or seeing the whole picture when the spiritual is eliminated from their beliefs? (you don’t have to answer or even talk, but I don’t want to argue).
Lots of love
Jason x
ccherrett said this on Feb 17:
“Samphire: Who is paying for your time to come in here are talk all your evolution talk. Are you funded?”
That is for me to know and for someone on this blog to invent yet another conspiracy theory about.
“What is your real name and what do you do? I have been amazed at the time you are spending in here and the detail and length of your posts. It seems odd that someone would spend so much time in this blog.”
Just trying to point out a few of the many inanities which litter this blog.
“For real, why are you here? Are you funded? Do you have associations with The National Center for Science Education or and other organization? Would really like to know. You sure seem to be overly concerned.”
Apparently, I am not as concerned as the increasingly cognitively disassociated KH (now re-inventing himself as a flowerpot) who thinks the subject is so important that he is willing to give up what could be an otherwise useful life to promulgate the nonsensical belief that, contrary to all empirical evidence, the Universe is only 6,000 years old. From the evidence of many of the posts on this blog, there are a lot of people out there who do not seem to have the relatively limited education required to recognise the “plain as a pikestaff” falsity of the counterfeit Doctor’s plagiarised absurdities.
Why is this important? The US is the most powerful and dangerous state in the World. At the moment, having wrecked Iraq with our small assistance, it is rattling sabres at Iran in a rather alarming manner. With a large portion of Americans believing in a relatively imminent Rapture (GaryMurray says above that his loins are already twitching in eager anticipation) and with the White House being occupied by someone who may think likewise it is important for my children’s future that such ludicrous superstitions and delusions are resisted with some rationality for fear that they may become self-fulfilling.
Also, I may just like a bit of fun from time to time.
1. JohnLake
Said this at 3:49pm:
Gary,
I apologize for not replying to the overall topic of your post (Feb. 14 at 8:58am). I didn’t realize that was a requirement. To make things right, here is my comment about the rest of your post;
You didn’t realize it was a requirement, because I don’t recall I stated that it was. You are welcome to comment about that specific post, but what you erred to miss is that it isn’t a post, but a thread. It is a continuation of a discussion over multiple posts via multiple people. This is why I specifically said I had a problem with your post. I was upset that you would only search the thread and exploit that which you felt was a contradiction in the Bible. The discussion was not an argument that the Bible wasn’t accurate when. This leads others to the opinion that you are only here to bash the Bible, in a Bible believing community, rather than open your mind to evidence that might just change the way you think. Most here, including Samphire, actually listen to both sides of the argument and apply effort to understand the other side instead of arrogantly taking one side and assuming it is the only final authority. Even by this, your follow-up thread, it is a prime example that even though I provided a clear explanation of the Bible and the hydrologic cycle as in Isaiah 55:10, you still provided no refutation to the contrary, and provide no proof that the evidence in hand was accurately accounted for in the Bible.
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JohnLakes:
I found it quite unremarkable, typical circular apologetics. There is no point in arguing with your statements, as your reasoning is based on The Bible proving The Bible.
Ah, by your statement above it clearly indicates that you never read the entirety of the thread, otherwise you would have realized that the ‘circular apologetics’ you claim were present in my statements concerning light isn’t a constant, (those which you believe are not worthy of arguing) were actually statements quoted by the article sources I had originally posted. Remember, this is your science that disproves your founding theory that the universe is millions of years old because we are able to see snapshots of a past star due to the speed of light traveling at a constant distance over time. It isn’t my science or evidence I have supplied by the Bible.
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JohnLakes:
BTW, my reply was to a post, in which you wrote nothing about the speed of light.
I’ll agree with you. I never wrote anything about the speed of light. I posted recent scientific articles from prestigious universities, in different parts of the world, where the study of the speed of light in a vacuous environment was found NOT to be constant, by their own laboratory research. This was the topic of discussion in this thread prior to Samphire cunningly switching it, thereby avoiding the evidence given in said articles. I merely answered his question while waiting his response to the articles I posted.
The sources of my statements in relation to the original topic of discussion, speed of light is not a constant, has yet to be refuted or answered by anyone. Instead, the discussion was led to an alternate purpose; ‘why did God do the things he did?’ A marvelous debate tactic, whereby one deviates from the topic to avoid evidence that might disprove their side.
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OK, the next time I read one of your posts, I will regard anything marked with “NOTE:” is only for the eyes/minds of Believers&trade.
Or you could just assume it was a note that followed an original topic, that which you completely denied to comment on. This somewhat gives evidence that you are ‘blog trolling’, searching for that one weak spot you can find to inject your comments because you have a grievance towards creationists and Bible believers. Unfortunately, the one contribution you made on this board (or at least this thread), was easily refuted by further edification of the original source, The Bible.
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JohnLakes:
Also, I now know that;
- For Believers&trade: A referenced Bible verse (context not required) provides strong and indisputable evidence* that The Bible is scientifically accurate.
No, actually modernized science over the past few hundred years has proven that the scriptures found in the Bible, in regards to life and matter in the universe, is in line with scientific theories and discoveries.
You see, we Bible believers never needed science to prove the Bible was scientifically accurate. We just believed the Bible. Its science that has slowly seen over years of study, that what is listed in the Bible in regards to science, is scientifically accurate.
JohnLakes:
For the rest of us (Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Catholics, Hindi, Believers&trade with non-KJV® Bibles, etc.): A referenced Bible verse (context from non-referenced verses required) cannot be held to any scientific accuracy or scrutiny, and the verse(s) can only be read for the metaphors**.
Your inability to accept the Bible because it was written by something you can’t explain with science will be no excuse judgment day. I love you, and pray for all lost sinners, but I am not here to convict you to believe the Bible. If the Holy Ghost hasn’t convicted you thus far, there is nothing I can say will manage it. I only stand firm against false teachings and offer scripture to offset these false teachings, that which bend and weaken the faith of young believers. I will go to the mat to make sure young Bible believers aren’t swayed by a heretical religion such as Evolution. I strongly support science, but evolution is not science when results from one lab to the next varies with such a sizable margin of error as has been seen and provided here in this blog thus far. Please understand my stance, and now you may better understand my statements.
Again I am not debating who is right and who is wrong. I feel there is conclusive enough evidence that the Bible’s account for a world wide flood is accurate, and that the universe was created, not evolved. I have never seen any evidence to the contrary, though I have listened and observed both sides of this argument. I love you, JohnLakes, as a friend. I wanna see you saved, I want to see you ask Jesus Christ to save your soul so you can join me (and hopefully Samphire) in Heaven someday. I’m praying for both of you!
God Bless, JohnLakes.
Hi all. I see this discussion has gone to yet another origins debate. Before I briefly get into that I just want to say “Hello Kent! I am praying for you.”
I met Kent at a Steeling the Mind conference. Well, just like every single person from the beginning of time, I’ll say it in a whisper, shhhhh, “Kent is not perfect”.
And God uses imperfect people. Amen?
Kent has such gifts – to speak publicly and boldly for God! I won’t get into the supposed imperfections – just this one thing Kent…. be humbled!!! And in that, more strength will be given!
Now, we almost missed a VERY CRITICAL item from Mr. Samphire…. at least part of the reasoning for his posts is that HE CARES ABOUT THE FUTURE!
Now, let’s NOT get into who cares about the future more. Who cares about their kids futures more – “us or them”…
Let’s agree on this – there are at least some of us (hopefully all!) who CARE about the future – the babies being born today, other people who are suffering. Oh come on we all know the many needful folks in the world… OK.
Here’s the real deal though. Listen. Here it is. Ready? HOW DO WE ACHIEVE PEACE?
Answer?
Well, I am a Christian, and so my answer is: God’s plan will happen.
Are we all arguing about how to achieve peace? Are we all arguing on how to help others? Are we all arguing for our own benefit of being right? Why do we argue about origins?
It surely helps to learn by debating. Absolutely. I have learned an incredible amount by listening to all kinds of debates – origins, theology…
But what gives us the passion to continue? And again for what end purpose?
If it is to save the world, then please take some time and really read the Scriptures. The question to answer is not “HOW?” – the question is “WHY?”.
“How?” will provide lots of learning, and we must continue to ask it. It’s awesome!
But if you are not asking “WHY?”, then it’s all for NAUGHT.
God’s Word is a letter to you that answers “WHY?”. Of course that’s just coming from another believer. But if you have ANY notions that there is God, then you may want to seriously consider WHY He formed you, and everything. Look into your loved ones eyes and ask why?
Peace.
Hi JoshTriangle
Was the Steeling the Mind conference you were at the same one which had the Texan preacher, Gary Frazier, saying “War will come at the end. That kind of blows away the world peace crowd. The truth is we are never going to have world peace. God says there will be wars and desolation to the end.” – What a nice chap. So much nicer than that guy who said “Blessed are the peacemakers”.
At the end of the same conference KH rallied the troops “to save souls, vote Republican, and join a local militia.” It’s not surprising the IRS later took his guns away – but too late to stop KH shooting himself in the foot.
Kind regards
Samphire
Samphire
Said this at 12:21pm:
Was the Steeling the Mind conference you were at the same one which had the Texan preacher, Gary Frazier, saying “War will come at the end. That kind of blows away the world peace crowd. The truth is we are never going to have world peace. God says there will be wars and desolation to the end.” – What a nice chap. So much nicer than that guy who said “Blessed are the peacemakers”.
Samphire,
By your statement it seems you believe world peace is a realistic possibility. I would like you to explain how you can conceive of this.
It’s evident by your previous posts that you believe in evolution. Well, evolution is the process of adaptation of survival or survival of the fittest. If indeed you believe that world peace is conceivable, doesn’t this directly contrast with the idea of world evolution and the ‘strong will survive’? After all, in order for the strong to survive, prevail, overcome, there has to be some type of diminishing of the weaker species. That would constitute war between ‘species’ wouldn’t it?
If I am wrong in my assumption that you believe world peace is achievable, then you actually believe that the nature of man is to destroy itself by its own creations. Thus causing wars, catastrophes and desolation. If this statement is true, then you have ridiculed a man who made a statement that you agree with. Why the ridicule? Is it there because his belief and motives are driven by a creationist view?
Honestly, there will never be ‘world peace’. Either in the world of a uniformatarianist or the world of a creationist. Perhaps maybe, in their minds?? The only difference in the two is one is a watered down version of destruction which label the extinction of life a wonderful natural cycle of evolution, whereas the other is just plain and realistic and straight forward without the ooey gooey center…
Still praying for ya,
Gary
GaryMurray
Said this at 4:18pm:
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You didn’t realize it was a requirement, because I don’t recall I stated that it was. You are welcome to comment about that specific post, but what you erred to miss is that it isn’t a post, but a thread. It is a continuation of a discussion over multiple posts via multiple people. This is why I specifically said I had a problem with your post. I was upset that you would only search the thread and exploit that which you felt was a contradiction in the Bible.
I am fully aware that there are several topics being discussed in this comment section. (A thread is a list comments connected by a subject line or topic, as you would find in a forum or discussion board.) I did not search these posts looking for anything to exploit. I have been reading the comments of this blog entry since its inception and I have been reading the entire blog for quite some time. I have contributed a few posts to this and other entries. Most, if not all, of my posts have been concerning the charges & trail of KH. I have not been trolling or bashing Believers. I have been replying to or commenting on posts where I had an opinion and/or information related to the topic. None of my post (except for maybe my last post) has been mean spirited. None of my posts stated my beliefs one way or another about religion, creationism or The Bible. Go ahead a do a search.
I posted my comment about your note concerning Isaiah 55:10 because, I was prompted to look it up and read it for myself by your ‘Note:’.
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NOTE: Verse 10 of this chapter gives strong evidence that the Bible is scientifically accurate as it pertains to vegetation life and its hydration requirements. Interesting reading for scoffers who believe the Bible to be scientifically inaccurate.
I had no prior knowledge of that verse and took it as you had mentioned it (I also read verses 8 and 9 that you had also quoted.) I did not read verse 11 at the time. Had I read verse 11, I would have understood the metaphor, but that was not the assertion of your comment. It would not have made a difference in my opinion/post in regards to your statement. You were the one referencing the scientific accuracy of the verse(s) not the meaning of the scripture.
I replied because the verse that I read (AS I READ IT) was not scientifically accurate as you had claimed in your post.
I even agreed with you that it did not go into any technical details of plant hydration.
Not only did I read the verse you referenced, I look up the word “thither” to be sure didn’t mistake its meaning. I even read two versions of The Bible to make sure that I had a good understanding of what was being said. That apparently prompted your tirade concerning non-KJV Bibles.
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The discussion was not an argument that the Bible wasn’t accurate when. This leads others to the opinion that you are only here to bash the Bible, in a Bible believing community, rather than open your mind to evidence that might just change the way you think. Most here, including Samphire, actually listen to both sides of the argument and apply effort to understand the other side instead of arrogantly taking one side and assuming it is the only final authority.
This discussion has been about a lot of topics, you were the one that brought up the verse and the scientific accuracy. I did not bash The Bible, I posted my opinion concerning the verse you referenced as being scientifically accurate.
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Even by this, your follow-up thread, it is a prime example that even though I provided a clear explanation of the Bible and the hydrologic cycle as in Isaiah 55:10, you still provided no refutation to the contrary, and provide no proof that the evidence in hand was accurately accounted for in the Bible.
OK, I did not explicitly or narrowly define the form of water, as you did in your reply. I guess if I were to disregard my 3rd grade knowledge of how thing work and look at the verse in the most simplistic of ways, you are correct.
That being said, your definition scientifically accurate equates to; rain falls, snow falls, plants get water. Careful Gary, don’t go too far out on that limb.
Scientifically accurate? – OK, sure.
Scientifically meaningful? – not so much
Again, I’m referring to your assertion that the verse is scientifically accurate, not that it has other meanings.
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Ah, by your statement above it clearly indicates that you never read the entirety of the thread, otherwise you would have realized that the ‘circular apologetics’ you claim were present in my statements concerning light isn’t a constant, (those which you believe are not worthy of arguing) were actually statements quoted by the article sources I had originally posted. Remember, this is your science that disproves your founding theory that the universe is millions of years old because we are able to see snapshots of a past star due to the speed of light traveling at a constant distance over time. It isn’t my science or evidence I have supplied by the Bible.
I have read the entire “Thread”, but my reply was to a part of your post answering Samphire’s “Loaded question”. Read your post FEB 14 @ 8:58, there is nothing in that post concerning the speed of light being constant. The post that you entered a day earlier did have the quotes and links to the articles about the constant of the speed of light. Which, by the way, I did read. I just did post a reply. Its just not an area of comfort for making comments. And on another note, I still haven’t stated my beliefs one way or another. The science in my post was the Water Cycle, not Evolution. You came to the conclusion that I’m a evolutionist based on two post.
The circular apologetic I was referring to was your answer to Samphire’s “Loaded question” using The Bible to prove the Bible. In essence; The Bible tells us everything we need to know, if the Bible does not give us the answer, then we don’t need to know the answer, why not? Because The Bible tells us we are not capable of knowing the answers.
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This was the topic of discussion in this thread prior to Samphire cunningly switching it, thereby avoiding the evidence given in said articles. I merely answered his question while waiting his response to the articles I posted.
The sources of my statements in relation to the original topic of discussion, speed of light is not a constant, has yet to be refuted or answered by anyone. Instead, the discussion was led to an alternate purpose; ‘why did God do the things he did?’ A marvelous debate tactic, whereby one deviates from the topic to avoid evidence that might disprove their side.
Just for the record,
I replied to your post from Feb 14th @ 8:58am which was a reply to
Samphire’s post Feb 13 @ 10:52am: which was a reply to
David’s post on Feb 13th @ 7:57am.
So, it looks to me like you are the one that interjected your comments into a conversation between Samphire and David, hijacking that conversation and running with the topic ‘why did God do the things he did?’
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Or you could just assume it was a note that followed an original topic, that which you completely denied to comment on. This somewhat gives evidence that you are ‘blog trolling’, searching for that one weak spot you can find to inject your comments because you have a grievance towards creationists and Bible believers. Unfortunately, the one contribution you made on this board (or at least this thread), was easily refuted by further edification of the original source, The Bible.
You might want to do that search; this was not “my one contribution” to this entry or to others in the CSEBlog. And just because I am not as prolific as you, does not mean that I am trolling or don’t have something to contribute. I’ll admit to being a bit snarky in my last post, but being accused of trolling or “plucking one piece of coal” did not put me in the best of moods.
I posted my opinion of your comment without malice or name calling. You could have offered your “edification” in the same way.
As for refuting my contribution, you did so by reducing the scientific value of you reference to “rain falls, plants get water”. Since irrigation systems had been around long before Isaiah was written, your claim that scientifically accuracy and scientific value of “rain falls, plants get water” is pretty weak.
Yes, I know the Bible is not a science book, but it was your claim of scientific accuracy.
JohnLake
That’s just one Lake, thanks.
Hi, Gary,
No, I do not believe that unending world peace is a realistic possibility. However, I do believe that country needs to talk to country just as much as neighbour should talk to neighbour to avoid disputes. War must always be the last resort.
Jimmy Carter may not have been your greatest President ever but he was right when he said in 2002 “War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always an evil, never a good. We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other’s children.”
As is tediously common amongst the YEC fraternity you misconstrue the meaning of the phrase “Survival of the fittest”. It does not mean “Survival of the Strongest” but “survival of the individual which is most fitted for its environment”. And contrary to what you write, war is not a struggle between species but between members of the same species. As such, given the prevalence of nuclear weapons, it is more likely to be advantageous to the human species in evolutionary terms to ensure war is minimised. To achieve that goal we need the “peace crowd” to use Frazier’s pejorative phrase. Jesus was right when he quoted Plato in stating “Blessed are the peacemakers”.
Of course, Frazier’s view is driven by a YEC agenda. Perhaps his loins are starting to quiver, like yours, at the thought of the Rapture. That is why I wrote in my last post of the danger to civilisation of this evil and possibly self-fulfilling prophesy.
So, as well as praying for me I hope that, unlike your appalling “brother in Christ” Frazier, you are also praying for those who seek peace,
Kind regards
Samphire
Folks, after posting a few things here and seeking to communicate with brother Hovind that perhaps he may have been allowing his own will to get in the way of God’s… for example the general conspiracy-laden view of the US government and therefore a general anti-establishment streak; I then read my current devotional, and was reminded that sometimes we are just supposed to go with what God directs, although there’s a question of whether God would direct us to promulgate questionable thoughts/ideas in order to accomplish what He plans for us? I suppose my issue is that, it is such an awesome blessing to have Kent Hovind and others like him, standing firm and using their talents to spread the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so when something questionable enters the picture, and is even arguably off-the-wall, it hurts the ability to make use of the witnessing potential of Kent’s work… I suppose it’s simply the balance of humbleness and boldness? It would seem the only way to keep that balance is by God’s power alone! Through prayer and His word!
Check out:
http://www.rbc.org/utmost/index.php?month=02&day=21&year=07
Peace.
Dear Dr. Hovind;
I think your CSE ministry is awsome! It has enriched my life and strengthened my faith. I am now equipped with a whole lot of information to go out into the world and win souls. To be honest, I think people should just mind their own business and stop trying to attack you and your personal life. I think you are a man after God’s heart. I don’t quite know what my feelings are on the whole IRS and taxes thing, but I know God will deal with you accordingly. Whether you are guilty or innocent of a crime is none of my, or anyone else’s business. My close christian friend’s and family always say “you can’t argue with fruit”. The CSE ministry has soooo much fruit! The bible says “you’ll know them by their fruits” (that is the Fruit of the Holy Spirit – read Galatians chapter 5). I admire your uncomprimising and bold faith in Christ. Whatever is going on with this legal thing is between you and God, and NO ONE else. I understand that as christians we have to be careful as to who we look up to in the church, but to pick on a fellow brother with such a fruitful and truthful anointed ministry is almost sinful in itself. I have to admit sadly that alot of christians (and I have done it myself many times, so I know) are bad for putting expectations on fellow christians that we ourselves can’t even live up to sometimes. There are certain requirements of leaders that the bible talks about, but is Dr. Hovind our pastor? Our deacon? Does he really have any authority over us or has he assumed any? NO! I read this garbage email conversation this James(or Jason, I don’t remember) Smith guy had with Dr. Hovind where he insisted Dr. Hovind tell him whether he repented and asked forgiveness for his “supposed lies” he had in his seminar and the way he would sometimes make fun of the evolutionists. Where does this guy get off?! He kept on insisting Dr. Hovind tell him this. What business is it of his anyway?! And he writes all this self-righteous crap about himself and how he’s a missionary and stuff. Dr. Hovind’s replys were sooooo polite and scriptural and everything. This guy just wouldn’t get off his back. I think this is uncalled for behaviour of a man professing Christ. No wonder this world thinks Christians are so nuts! Thank You Jesus that it’s YOU who saves them and not us!! As far as the rest of the people who aren’t christians are concerned, well…that speaks for itself. If you aren’t for God (and the truth of His Word, which happens to say He created the world in 7 literal 24hr days…His world, His rules) you’re against Him, and against those who are for Him. Dr. Hovind, I and my fellow brothers and sisters in london ontario will be praying for you. God’s will will be God’s will. I pray He be glorified through your life. I pray you would listen to His instruction, and discipline if nessesary and take heed to the Word. Don’t let the devil get you down. In your own words, “it’s not them who are the enemy, they just work for him”. May God richly bless and keep you always. In Jesus’ name, Amen.
And to the rest of you. In the Words of a carpentar who knew what He was talking about: “let him who is without sin, cast the first stone”!
Samphire:
Regarding the rapture:
Not all Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Personally I do not. Who will then be left to tell everyone else about the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ, and at such an integral time? Who will remain to tell as many people left about the truth? So that they too can join us when the Lord raptures his Children.
I think Christians who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture are deceived and are going to have a nasty shock when they realise they will have to endure persecution throughout the tribulation. I suggest any Christians who DO believe in the pre-trib rapture should really study their Bible very closely.
The whole idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is quite selfish and small minded. Do you really think the Lord will simply collect his children without even giving the rest of the world a chance for salvation? Especially when this moment in time, this era, will be the most important and intense span in the history of time, with multiple prophesies being fulfilled all over the world.
Matthew 24:21-31 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Samphire do you know the difference between a liberal and someone truly behind freedom and democracy?
Freedom seeks the right of all people to LIVE in peace.
Liberalism seeks the right of all people to DIE in peace.
Why such a claim?
LIFE = light, joy, do undo others…
DEATH = darkness, sin, opposed to God, do whatever you want…
There’s a “fine line” from the (faulty) human perspective – “Hey, it’s MY life… this is a free country… who are YOU to tell me what’s right and wrong…” to “love thy neighbor…”.
A fine line. War sucks. OK, yes, anyone in their right mind agrees. Horrible. Horrors of war.
But take an analogy of it being on a personal level. Person to person. You desire to live peacefully. Someone for some reason decides they would like to kick your butt – to hurt you. You’d like to reason with them. The offender stipulates some things that you must do to not get your butt kicked. OK – we can think of the negotiations, if it even is that civilized, or if you are simply attacked and forced into action (self-defense).
But right there – what happened to freedom? You deciding on whether to comply with the offender – are your freedoms impinged right then and there? Do you stand for your freedom? Or give in “for the sake of peace”.
We can sit in an ivory tower and discuss it over a spot of tea. But get real please. There’s a cost to true freedom, and it is worth every cent.
Those that are weak and feel guilty that some are dying to protect their freedoms should seek a reality check – get over the guilt, and the only way to do that is through God – the Savior – the Messiah.
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
You’re explanation of survival of the fittest? It’s so weak and feeble it’s not worth it.
I find it amazing that so many scientists, what I used to think of as a very independent and open-minded admirable pursuit, are closing their minds to what has and is being discovered on the molecular level re: “intelligent design”. Yeah we can get on to a discussion on that but there are other places to go to read up on it…
You’re not gonna convert anybody here Samphire. What you don’t understand is, when God the Father calls, and you answer and receive His call through His Son Yeshua the Messiah – the Truth is right there and unchanging. You can find a bunch of people to agree and latch on to Darwinism, but that doesn’t affect the truth – PERIOD!
Peace.
samuel,
I understand your position on the rapture but you do err in your logic. Remember the 144,000? They are the ones along with those who come to the realization that the rapture had occurred who will spread the gospel after the taking of the church. The sad thing is for those who come to the realization that Christ took his church will have to die for Him. Listen up non-chrisitans and apostates alike, when the rapture does come and you aren’t in it, to die for Christ is your last chance of salvation. Repeat last chance. That is very important. At that time you will be persecuted horribly and if you confess Christ you will be killed (beheading). Whatever you believe about pre-trib and post-trib is between you and your maker. I think an indepth study of prophecy shows that the rapture is pre-trib. So samuel I believe you are in error here. But don’t believe me. Study and pray and ask the father to show you.
Much love Brother,
xchamp
Dear Bro. Samuel,
I happen to be one of those so-called “deceived” Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers. I would suggest that you would consider checking out your facts in a better fashion from the manner laid out in the Bible. Specifically, Isaiah 28:9-13; precept upon precept, II Peter 1:20, no private interpretations; II Corinthians 13:1 two or three witnesses; and lastly, I Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.
To start, you have not provided two or three witnesses nor have you compared line upon line in any manner. Let me help you with a quick study of Matthew 24 and let me cut to the chase lest I fail to show the error of your way and someone less skilled in the Word would take your statement at face value and be led astray. The Pre-Trib Rapture is still the only tenable interpretation of Scriptures despite your statement. The first witness to consider from the verses you quoted gives the whole answer but there are many more to confirm it. Please take a look at Joel 2:30-32, Zechariah 13:8-9, Ezekiel 37: 1-14, and Revelation 7: 1-12 which places Matthew 24:9-31 in the proper perspective of the second Coming for Israel after the battle of Armageddon. That leaves the rest of Matthew 24: 37-51 to picture the Rapture despite many people’s attempts to belay the obvious correlation. Mark 13:34 makes it very clear that these specific verses are spoken to the church to wait for the Son of man (Jesus) on His long journey. I could go on for a great deal of time further but I will not.
My only intent and purpose is to state categorically that your entire treatise is false and dangerous to those not well versed in the Scriptures and thus I will not let your statements stand unchallenged. Please note that it is the 144,000 chosen Jews from the 12 tribes that will witness to the entire world during the tribulation and salvation will be great and heaven will be filled with multitudes by their faithfull witness. I do agree that the church of today has fallen into a complacency that is dangerous and Dr. Hovind’s case is simply one of many warning signs of things to come. The most imperative statement on the time before the Rapture comes from the Lord Himself in Luke 17:28. When we compare this statement and proceed to Genesis 19, we find that Lot was a righteous man that did not separate himself from three things that Abraham did separate from: 1) The abundance of Sodom 2) the wickedness of Sodom 3) the earthly power of Sodom. The third issue is most important for today. The churches of America are directly in bed with the earthly power of America and this will not profit the church of America anymore than it did Lot being a judge in that city. Likewise, we see the prophetic persecution of the church with all 4 quarters of the town coming after us just as they did to Lot. And then the angels brought Lot inside and shut the door and gave the townspeople over to blindness (compare this with II Thessalonians 2:10-12). We find again another proof in these verses of the Pre-trib Rapture. There will be quite enough persecution of the church before the Rapture to keep you from claiming we are selfish.
You are also wrong about salvation in this time as well. It will be done by the faithful Jews who come to the knowledge of Jesus during the tribulation. It is also a marker of the failure of the church to discharge its full duties (see the Lord’s comments on the church of Laodicea, Revelation 3). So Samuel, you have failed to prove all things and hold fast that which is good. May those interested in Bible prophecy learn to search out the truth by keeping what the Bible itself states as laid out in the simple rules of Scripture listed above. If you have acquired your rules of interpretation from common treatises on “hermeneutics” I would suggest that look up the root meaning of that pagan word and go back to the Bible itself. Hermeneutics comes from the pagan god “Hermes.” (II Corinthians 6:14-18) There are many issues with this that I will also leave alone except to admonish all to learn what the Bible alone states and obey it!!
Most kindly, EndTimes
Hi, joshtriangle
I don’t understand what point you are trying to make. I’m sure you don’t intend to sound like a nazi but that’s how it comes over. Perhaps you could give it another shot.
What, for instance, was wrong with my Darwinist definition of “Survival of the fittest”?
My original point was my disgust at the seemingly joyous dismissal by Bro.Frazier of those who seek to look for peace in accordance with Christ’s teachings.
As for ID, I tend to agree with EndTimes that it is not a hypothesis which assists the YEC cause. If you, Michael Behe (the anti-YECist) or Jonathan Wells (the Mooney and anti-YECist) and his chums at the Center for Science and Culture can come up with some physical scientific evidence to prove the case for ID I don’t doubt that it could become mainstream science. Trouble is, I cannot see how any of you can do so.
To quote Paul Nelson who was instrumental in the early days of Intelligent Design: “Intelligent Design proponents offer nothing to the scientific community upon which a scientific program can be developed. They don’t even have clearly defined definitions of critical terms that can be understood and applied by others. For example, they have provided no objective basis upon which others can apply concepts, such as irreducible complexity or specific complexity. They focus on critiques of evolutionary theories that either attack strong views of evolution, misrepresent current science, or are simply based on flawed reasoning. They also point to areas of frontier science in which the scientific community is yet to reach a consensus. None of this constitutes any challenge to the predicted and explanatory power of evolutionary theory. In short, with regard to Intelligent Design there is nothing there. There simply is no theory of ID or anything approaching it. ID is not used in scientific research, even by its primary proponents. All ID is is a series of failed and rejected criticisms of evolutionary theory. Easily the biggest challenge facing the ID community is to develop a full fledged theory of biological design. We don’t have such a theory right now and that’s a real problem. Without a theory it is very hard to know where to direct your research focus. Right now we’ve got a bag of powerful intuitions and a handful of notions such as irreducible complexity and specified complexity, but as yet no general theory of biological design.”
My prophecy is that, with the ever-increasing interest in evo-devo and molecular biology, over time the very thin edge of a very thin Wedge will become very much thinner. Although not quite on subject try http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/ for a critique of Well’s Icons of Evolution to discover just how good is the quality of JW’s science generally.
Kind regards
Samphire
Hi Samuel,
Thank heavens for EndTimes. You were just starting to dangerously mislead me when ET immediately galloped to the rescue.
But, EndTimes, I have a cunning plan to avoid the end times altogether. According to Daniel 9:27 (not mentioned by you for some reason) and Matthew 24:15, Jesus must return after a 3½ year Great Tribulation that starts with the standing up of the statue of the “abomination of desolation” (can you help me as to what that is supposed to be?) and the stopping of daily animal sacrifices on the Temple Mount.
As far as I know there aren’t any sacrifices presently been made so if we keep it that way we should all be OK. So, everybody, please keep your eyes and ears open and let me know if it looks as though somebody is planning to restart sacrifices or open a KFC on Temple Mount and I’ll ask the Israeli Police to pop round and sort them out before it all starts getting out of hand.
Doubtless, EndTimes, you will insist on having your Tribulation and so will soon find a text that will frustrate my proposed humanitarian gesture.
Endtimes and Samphire: good morning, God bless you
Proverbs 3:5-8: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
Seems to me the pair of you are quite “wise” in your own eyes.
Romans 1:20-25: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
I think you’ll find that CSE and countless other Christians would agree with me that the pre-tribulation rapture is non-sence and a severe misinterpretation of the scriptures. I do not claim to be an expert myself, but I will seek advise on how to respond to the pre-trib rapture so that the “intellects” of the blog are satisfied.
I know Endtimes will probably scoff and mock me now, and probably post a lengthy blog to try to make me look stupid, but the word of God stands firm. I think you will find that NO ONE will be raptured until the end of the tribulation, so that ALL of the Church of Christ will be a witness right up until the time of the return of Jesus Christ.
Sam
xchampion91: good morning, God bless you
I can quite honestly say I am a devout Christian and confess I am nothing without the Lord. It is me who has taken on his cross daily and followed him. It is he who has taken hold of my life, and is still shaping it today. I trust and love the Lord with 100% of my heart and have accepted his free gift of salvation.
Please could you distinguish then whom the Church is, who you believe will be raptured before the tribulation? I for one am ready and willing to die for my faith, raptured or not, but are you? I think Christians who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture and are actually expecting it are going to be shocked when they realise they too may have to die for Jesus Christ our lord.
I will post more on this later but I have to go now.
Love and prayers from,
Sam.
God Bless you too, Brother Samuel
The church is the bride of Christ. As EndTimes said, you have to study verse upon verse, precept upon precept. Study the book of Ruth for a little bit more info on the role of Christ in the end times. I think that when you look at that you will see who the church is. Read Revelation Chapter 19 verse 5. The marriage supper is before the return of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon. I say this with the fullest love for a brother in Christ, where in the scriptures are the reasons for your adhering to the post-trib theory? Please reply so we can discuss it. I am open to your comments and as a fellow believer I will listen with open arms and a soft heart.
xchamp
Good morning to you, Samuel, and God bless you, too.
I would have thought that 2,000 years would be more than sufficient to allow you guys to get your story straight. All this navel gazing and no further forward. Do yourselves a favour and chuck it into the bin with our phlogiston.
Why does it matter, any how? Either way, you are still saved.
While you continue to scrap it out I shall proceed to order the “No barbecue” notices just to be on the safe side.
Dear Bro. Samuel,
I would simply like to remind you of where this conversation started, with you dogmatically stating that Pre-Trib believers are “decieved.” Now in further continuence of this converstation, you have not offered any proof for your dogmatic statement and you feel that my only response to you is to mock you. Sorry, but I am only interested in some further evidence from the Scriptures in suport of your dogmatic statement. I will be eagerly looking forward to you simply looking at the Scriptures that I gave for you to consider and look indeed how the signs for Israel include the moon and sun turning blood red in the time of the end before the second coming. There are several OT prophets who spoke of the end times battle for Israel with this sign of the “Second Coming” which is for Israel alone, and not for the church. That would be a short and profitable study for you to engage in.
I would further remind you that it is not the authorities on the Pre, Post, Mid, Pre-wrath or any other combination of interpretations of the Rapture that will be present with you on the day that you stand before your Lord and give an account for everything that you have done in your body whether good or bad. I Thessalonians 5:21 holds you personally responsible for proving all things and holding fast that which is good. If you believe that you have already accomplished this task in regards to the Rapture, then that is an issue between you and your Maker, not me.
As for me, I would rather get back to the issue of creation and evolution which is what I thought was the forum for this blog.
In kind regards, EndTimes.
xchampion91, Samphire & Endtimes Good morning again! God bless you, I hope your day is going well!
First of all I would like to apologise to everyone for being a little bit self righteous and hypocritical in my previous posts by calling people who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, “selfish and small minded”. I’m truly sorry. The Lord has showed me I shouldn’t speak like this of my Christian brethren or of any man, as I should not judge, unless I want to be judged.
However, this still does not change my mind however on the specifics of the rapture. xchampion91: I would love to discuss my point of view with you in love and understanding, and would also love to listen to your side of the coin. I will post a specific blog on my opinion and understanding about the rapture, including reference from scripture etc, later when I get time.
Samphire: Unfortunately I have not had 2000 years to “get my story straight” I have only had a short 25 years in this world to make my mind up about certain factors in life. I have found, through experience, that the Bible (KJV) is an absolutely astounding and brilliant guide to life, truth and love. It is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Like Kent Hovind says, and I would agree with him, Bible = Basic instructions before leaving earth. I honestly believe this was the best way we could grasp and understand Gods message and the whole concept, relayed to us without direct interference, (like appearing in the sky saying “I am God, obey me!!!”) but that’s a whole other topic.
The disagreements and arguments a lot of Christians face regarding certain doctrines does grieve my heart. Yes, it would be excellent if all saw eye to eye, and agreed on doctrine, interpretation etc, but unfortunately, Satan has been working away behind the scenes in the lives of men to corrupt Gods incorruptible word, which IS indeed incorruptible in its true sense, but our mortal understanding is not.
On the same note I think man has a knack of thinking HE knows better than the next man, and “my understanding” is better than yours, type reasoning (pride). This can happen in ANY faith, science, or doctrine, so it is inevitable in an imperfect world, for what is perfect to be corrupted in man eyes and ways. That is why Jesus died for us on that cross, because he knows we can never be perfect in this life, its impossible as we are born into sin, God knew someone needed to pay for that sin and our reconciliation and made the necessary arrangements for this. Ever watched Narnia: The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe?
Samphire: You made an excellent point about us being saved. Yes we are my friend, saved from ourselves, saved from Satan’s clutches, saved from hell. I have hope for EVERYONE in this world, past, present and future for salvation, as the blood of Jesus Christ was sacrificed for YOU and ME – EVERYONE. Not just for the Jews, not just for a certain brand of people, but for ALL.
Romans 3:22-24: Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto ALL and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord
John 3:16-17: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Praise the Lord of Lords! King of Kings! The #1 head honcho! He loves us all intimately.
I would like to say a prayer specifically for Samphire.
Dear Lord, I come before you today in prayer. I ask that you can show our friend Samphire the spiritual light. Please dear Jesus, open his eyes to your free gift of salvation through faith and grace, please make it known to him your endless unconditional love. Please almighty God, help, guide and show Samphire his way in this life as you have so lovingly and carefully with me. And most of all dear Lord, not my will but yours be done on earth as it is in heaven. In Jesus name, Amen.
Samphire: you are loved so much more than you could possibly imagine.
All my love, prayers and kind regards,
Sam.
Samuel, I would love to chat about this with you. I really appreciate your eloquent words in regard to samphire, and I echo them as well. It is refreshing to deal with someone who is open. Too much closed-mindedness here from all sides. I have been to other blog sites and I have to say that this one is much better in tone and the people who come here are for the most part pretty easy to deal with. I look forward eagerly to your next post.
Much Love Brother,
xchamp
Hi, Samuel,
You said “Samphire: Unfortunately I have not had 2000 years to “get my story straight” I have only had a short 25 years in this world to make my mind up about certain factors in life. I have found, through experience, that the Bible (KJV) is an absolutely astounding and brilliant guide to life, truth and love. It is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.”
I wasn’t suggesting that you are older than EndTimes
just that your tribe should have been able to sort out a relatively simple timeline by now. The fact that it hasn’t indicates that it cannot be that important a factor in salvation – whatever EndTimes says about 1 Thess 5 – or are there further hoops a Christian has to jump through which weren’t mentioned by Jesus in order to get passed the Pearly Gates?
I can see why Richard Dawkins doesn’t consider Theology to be science.
Kind regards
Samphire
Dear Brother Endtimes, God bless you
I would like to apologise for the way I came accross in my previous post, you are right, I did seem very dogmatic and arrogant in how I presented my post. This was honestly not my intention. I can see I offended you and I sincerely apologise.
I intend on spending a bit of time reviewing what you have posted regarding the rapture, and will post my views re: the rapture, including scripture to back it up. I am also aware of the prophets Daniel, John and other prophesies, visions and dreams re: the time of the end. I would consider myself fairly intermediate in terms of scripture that speak of the end of this era.
Also Endtimes, you really don’t need to remind me about the white throne judgement, I know I will have to stand in front of our Lord and give account for every idle word spoken, as will you and everyone else. But do remember this, Satan is the accuser of the saints, it is he that puts despair, anger & hate in the hearts of men for their sins. He would like nothing better then to be able to condemn us all to hell for even the slightest thing we have ever done wrong, but, the blood of Jesus Christ has wiped away our sins, we have been officially pardoned for our wrong doings by the ultimate sacrifise, our Lord and saviour on that rugged cross.
It reminds me of an old Johnny Cash song that I really love and cherish. Its called “I was there when it happened” (please dont edit out paul!
) it goes like this….
There are some people, who say we cannot tell,
Whether we are saved or, whether all is well;
They say we only can hope and, trust that it is so,
But I was there when it happened and so I guess I ought to know.
Chorus:
Yes, I know when Jesus saved me (yes, He saved my soul),
The very moment He forgave me (yes, He made me whole);
He took away my heavy burden (yes, He took my sin and),
And He gave me peace within (gave me peace within).
Satan can’t make me doubt it (he can’t make me doubt it),
It’s real and I’m gonna shout it (I’m gonna shout it);
‘Cause I was there when it happened (oh, my Lord),
and I guess I ought to know (yes, I ought to know).
Now, I don’t care who tells me, salvation is not real,
Though the world may argue, that we cannot feel;
The heavy burdens lifted and the vile sins go,
But I was there when it happened and so I guess I ought to know.
Please dont ever try to make me or anyone else feel bad for their sins ever again Endtimes, I’m not saying you should point out things that are wrong, but dont try to make people feel bad about it, Satan does a good job of that as it is.
Untill next time, God bless and keep you.
Sam.
Good grief old Samphy, we will continue to take half-steps there with science. It’s a good thing. It’s the right journey, it’s part of God’s plan (uh oh, brain shutdown, take a breath Samphy!).
Some steps will make us easily declare, “Well there it is, obviously that’s how that works and so there’s our natural explanation…”.
Some steps will make us scratch our heads saying, “I see why those atoms and molecules are attracted like that, and so that leads to certain combinations, and those amino acids tending to form these proteins, and why are they folding like that there, and why the heck is that protein manufacturing more of those proteins, but I see how, and…”.
We’ve got fantastic names. Great labels. Magnetism, gravity, lightwaves, neutrons, protons, quarks, electrons, black holes, ACTG, RNA, DNA, photons….
Science is great at naming and labeling and explaining processes. And it will continue.
You won’t get all the answers before your ticker stops ticking… You won’t know. So go out and take a walk, look around, and drop a few hints to that unknown that it sure would be posh if “it” could let you know before you’re worm food if “it” really made the universe or if “it” is nothing and thanks for the trip.
And I’m glad if you’re not lukewarm Samphy… better to be cold… Assuming “we’re” the hot ones.
Mr Hovind I would appreciate your explaining what seem to be errors in your article “Did Plants Die Before Adam Sinned?” as posted on your website.
In the second paragraph you seem to promise a definition of what life is, but nowhere in the article does any such definition seem to emerge.
You tell us that plants have neither the breath of life nor blood, but there are animals that dont possess either of these qualities, and if I am not mistaken only Adam was given the breath of life.
Another point I would like clarified is this, you say “the life is in the blood”, so why then do people and animals die when there is still blood in their bodies?
Also your statement “No life forms come forth out of the earth. Animals always come from parents of the same kind.”, you seem to be ignoring the fact that some animals reproduce asexually and also the Genesis verses 1:24 and 2:7.
I do hope you can personally clear up these matters and send me your response at your earliest convenience.
balfres@hotmail.com
Hi Josh,
The content of your post is somewhat obscure but, if I understand it correctly, you seem to miss the point.
Science will not find all the answers, not even to its own questions. Religion has its own place outside of science and it should be left there.
Science does not disprove religion – only some of its dogma. Religion does not disprove science, even its dogma.
Hi Samphire,
“Science will not find all the answers…”
Who is the “Science” person you speak of?
In other words, do you see your personification of what is a branch of study, not of man-made things, but of things that exist (being gentle not to force the origins question)…
“Religion has its own place outside of science and it should be left there.”
“Religion”. Labels Samphire. So many labels we got all over the place.
Let’s define this one, because I think I see what you mean.
Religion: A man-made notion of how the universe came to be and why.
I would agree at least partially with you given the above. And I’d also say that anyone wanting anything to do with “Religion” is a poor sap. Pathetic. Yet someone I’d love dearly to meet, because I can be fairly confident that they are searching for answers.
Incredibly enough at the very same time there are those steeped in a religion who are not searching. They are protecting their “make-believe” world, or their loyalty to what is, after all, their man-made culture and tradition…
Culture is cool. I love different culture, and respect it highly.
But religion is not a nationality, and I want absolutely NOTHING to do with a fantasy world of make believe.
I want truth.
And the truth is, you cannot separate science from true religion. Let’s now redefine religion to be what it meant thousands of years ago, study of and service to God.
God who created everything, therefore includes “science”.
I don’t want to know any other “god” than that One!
And, I believe that God is quite able to reach through to those created in His image, and give them the ability to know Him! And not only that, but that He would want to.
And what better than a nicely packaged item where no other person is required to be depended on, but only it on its own, and can be “consumed” on a personal level.
Never would I have believed that, until fairly recently when I simply asked the unknown… are you there? I will not give up until I have thought it through quite sternly, with a very open mind, and all systems aware of possible corruption from the loony fringe.
My life is His – Jesus Christ. That’s just a label – but look beyond the covers – He created science!
Religion? Ha.
Peace bro.
J