Letter from the Ax to the Woodsman
II Samuel 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.
May 15, 2007 – Written from Tallahassee Prison
Dear Woodsman,
Why have you done this? We were doing so well felling tress for the Master’s house and you quit chopping with me in the middle of cutting that big oak. Why? I was doing my best. I never flew off the handle. I cut as deep as I could every swing. What did I do wrong?
Why do you have me clamped in this vice? I can’t move! I can’t chop wood here. I was designed for chopping wood. I love it! Please don’t leave me clamped in this vice. I feel pressure on my sides that I’ve never felt before. I can handle the pressure on my cutting edge. Go ahead. Chop with me all day long. I can take it. Actually, I love it!
Now what? No! Wait! Why are you grinding and filing off part of me? Why would you take away pieces of the most effective part of me—my cutting edge?
Woodsman, the Master needs the trees cut! This delay is holding up the job we were doing for Him! Please stop grinding on me and get me out of this vice. I want to go back to work. I love cutting wood. Ouch! You are hurting me!
Woodsman, are you listening to me? Do you know what you are doing?
The Ax
240 Responses to “Letter from the Ax to the Woodsman”
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campsuz
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 12:03pm:My son and I have learned to pray for you daily and often through this difficult time in your life… we will never again forget to pray for you… we love you… your life reflects Christ… you reflect the Word of God in your body (Phil 1:12 – 14 NKJV) But I want you to know, brethren, that the things which happened to me have actually turned out for the furtherance of the gospel, so that it has become evident to the whole palace guard, and to all the rest, that my chains are in Christ; and most of the brethren in the Lord, having become confident by my chains, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
FuManchu
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 12:44pm:Poetic. One can’t help feeling, however, that had Kent devoted half as much time to checking the tax laws as he apparently does to thinking up modern-day parables, he wouldn’t need the parables at all.
I’m reminded of the well-known Parable of the Man Who Couldn’t Believe That Sometimes Bad Things Just Happen.
gravy1
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 2:07pm:Well, I totally disagree with what you are saying! You know why he’s REALLY in prison. It has nothing to do with taxes! This kind of reply isn’t very sensitive at all. You kind of sound like Job’s friends. We should be in this together, not divided. This is not a political free feral. As Christians we are at war with all those who want us silenced.
My family finally found out the status of Dr. Hovind. He’s in solitary confinement and the government is trying to put him in prison overseas. There is only one reason for this, THEY WANT HIM DEAD! I’m done being quiet, I’m ready to stand with him and the God he serves!!!!!!!!
Teno
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 3:13pm:Fu Manchu must not only be filled with hate, but he must not work for a living to be able to jump into every thread right away with a disparaging comment. Most people don’t have enough free time to hang around blogs of someone they hate so they can keep twisting the knife in their back. In fact, most people have enough compassion that if a guy they don’t like is in prison (much less solitary confinement and other abuse), they leave him alone.
Get a job Fu Manchu and get off the welfare rolls.
There is definitely a spiritual component to Bro. Hovind’s situation. If it was just a matter of tax laws, he might get a sentence and that would be the end of it. They are harassing him in ways they don’t harass others imprisoned for the same, and worse offenses.
hiswordisafire
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 5:18pm:Mr. Hovind or anyone who knows:
how are you posting things onto this website if you’re in a federal prison? do they let you have internet access?
And, sir, if you do read this, I wanted you to know I’m praying for you and your family..I can only imagine how difficult this whole situation must be for y’all..
Please let me know if I can do anything other than pray.
May you and your family know the closeness of Jesus in these coming days.
FuManchu
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 5:36pm:Dear Teno (and others),
I’m happy to say that I’ll have a job from September, assuming I pass my law exams. In the meantime, however, I remain a student of (relative) leisure. Especially on Wednesdays, fortunately enough!
Anyway, as I have mentioned previously, I adopt a purely reciprocatory line here: as long as Kent continues to assert that he is somehow blameless, or that going to prison is part of some master plan, I intend to be there with a dose of rational pragmatism.
I will say this, however. I give you my solemn word that when Kent posts to say “I made a mistake, I’ll pay attention to the law next time, and I’d like to apologise to my wife for the trouble I’ve caused her” you will not see one single cynical, sarcastic or satirical remark from me. But I don’t believe I’m alone in regarding that day as fairly distant.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 5:58pm:Dear nom de plum or juridical(s) FuManChu [may23] and Samphire [may23],
One reference, by implication, to the STRAMINEUS is the code of canon law and its historical influence on the development of local legal codes.
Another reference/ evidence for the STRAMINEUS is U.C.C. FILING PROCEDURES WHICH ALLOW FOR THE DISTINCTION I AM MAKING. It would take you a few months I suspect to get your head around the U.C.C. and I don’t believe either of you will ever research a topic exhaustively – because I really don’t think you are teachable by definition. BUT THE U.C.C. FILING IS DIRECT EVIDENCE THAT THESE DISTINCTIONS ARE VERY REAL AND VERY VERY IMPORTANT.
Another implication of the STRAMINEUS is the entire basis for the administration of ancient Roman Law. ie. Governing by name and names – and the history / very creation/ etymology of the word “person”
Another basis for the separation of that persona is the name changes implied and explicit in Revelation and other texts.
Another reference/ evidence for the STRAMINEUS is the way birth registry offices began to operate about the time of the great depression – this is several more days reading on the history of money, the gradual planned abolition of the gold standard/ how credit is created/owned.
There is also several days reading on the history of promissory notes
Another reference for the STRAMINEUS is my own repeated success with notice lodgement and negative averment to “void” charges.
People more academically inclined than myself have spoken with senior people in various legal fraternities who have confirmed the distinction is real – this is hearsay from my point of view and yours but several witnesses independent to one another make for a case.
There is also a lot of subtlety surrounding what is in common law dictionaries about CORPORATE COLOURED ENTITY, CORPORATE PERSONALITY, JURISTIC PERSON.
There is also the history and usage of nom de guerre and pseudonyms and both declared and undeclared wars and the failure to revoke notices of hostilities/ to make declarations of cessation.
But lets both face it JURIDICAL PERSON FuManChu, you’re not here to learn anything, this is just dry entertainment and you will leave this earth in precisely the condition you now exist.
Jesus spoke to a group of people and said they would die in their sin. I have no reason to believe you are not of same category.
All Glory to Jesus Christ the Lord, before Whom every knee shall bow.
hatsoff
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 6:15pm:I have a tough time with this. On one hand, you have an over-aggressive penal system guided by self-righteous judges, who dole out years in prison as if they were frosted cupcakes; so I feel very sad for what this man must now endure. On the other hand, here is a wacko nutball who believes in just about every conspiracy theory on the internet, soaked up what was probably millions of dollars from gullible masses who swallowed his tall tales whole, and through his unabashed idiocy stole a *lot* of money from the government–my government. I’m therefore torn between my sympathy and my irritation.
Jails and prisons are crappy. There’s very little to do, and what’s probably worse is that you must either repress all innate ambition or else live with continual frustration and hardship–not an attractive choice. Most folks seem to go for the former, but I suspect Kent will try to actually accomplish something while incarcerated. He may achieve some small measure of success, but I think he’ll be too preoccupied to do anything truly useful. In my estimation, the best thing a man can do in prison is educate oneself. This is no small task even in the free world (which is why educators are so important), but unlike most other goals it actually has some hope of being attained behind bars. My advice to Kent, therefore, would be this: If you get to read this, Mr. Hovind, try your best to find an college-level textbook in a subject in which you presently know relatively little. What didn’t they teach you in those colleges you attended? Lots of folks graduate having taken only a couple or sometimes even no economics courses; maybe you could find a macro and/or micro introduction. Or maybe psychology? A lot of folks avoid that because they look down on it as non-scientific, but it is really quite useful. Of course, any pursuit of the natural sciences is always enlightening. How are you with human heredity, environmental science, cell biology, organic chemistry, inorganic chemistry, etc.? Or you could try your hand at some advanced mathematics. Actually, I’ve been looking for an excuse to brush up on my calculus; if you haven’t already learned most of it, I’d be happy to do some correspondence tutoring, which could help both of us. Also, if you’re into the math scene, physics can be quite stimulating. Have you taken many humanities courses? Also, the world never runs out of history; you could study anything from modern American to ancient Chinese history. Of course, this all depends on which textbooks, if any, you can find. The list goes on…
Anyway, that is what I would suggest. That’s all I’ve got.
skilet17
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 7:36pm:FuManchu – do you even have Title 26? Perhaps YOU should check some tax laws, since you haven’t filed legally. (No, I haven’t seen your return – there is just no way to do it without violating some of the ‘code’- just think, if you were effective in your ministry, they could get you!)
Go gravy1! Is there some organized way to stand with Dr Hovind?
baliset
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 9:10pm:I agree with FuManchu. After so many posts, after so many comments, the plain truth is a veritable “elephant in the room” for all to see, and yet, Kent and his supporters have their heads, still, after so much pain, stuck firmly in the sand, hands clamped firmly over each ear. Maybe.
I have a theory. It will never be verified, but I feel it in my bones that it’s true, and it makes me sad to contemplate it. Kent Hovind, chained and imprisoned, is sitting somewhere right now. Family obviously meant a great deal to him, regardless of his sins. And deep, deep down he is looking at his isolation, and the fact that he will irrevocably miss the best years of his grandchildren’s lives. And that there is every chance his pride has committed his wife to jail as well. And that, outside a small and shrinking band of credulous dupes, there is little sympathy for anyone who is caught stealing from the community and then tries to hide behind feigned religious oppression to escape the consequences.
Kent is there, and he’s finally, quietly, desperately saying “Great God. What have I done!”
Will we see this on this or any other site where we get “the mind of Kent”? No, I don’t think so. The self justification will continue. It will taper off, of course. Do you think this blog will be here in six months? A year? Ten years? Will anyone, except the innocent children who won’t now have a grandfather at Christmas or birthdays, care?
People have attributed to posters critical of Kent Hovind with all kinds of malice. I can’t speak for all of them, but don’t say it of me. I look at my precious 4 year old son and the very notion of believing that any dogma or doctrine (especially one as specious as young earth creationism, or as grey as tax law) is worth me risking a single minute away from him as he grows up… beggars belief. And yet, there’s Kent. Brave Kent! He stood his ground. Holy Kent, he preached God’s word! What has it bought him? Ignominy. Infamy. I don’t hate Kent Hovind. I hate the actions of people who peddle lies and profit from them, and then don’t even have the courage to fess up and say sorry to the world afterwards. Pity Kent, and don’t encourage the perpetuation of his self-delusion with your support. If you’re a Christian and you want to “do what Jesus would do”, then turn to the Scriptures: Jesus himself spoke saying “…And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?” (Matthew 25). That’s *visit*, brothers, not bust. Did Jesus tell people to help a prisoner feel justified or help them escape? No. Was he there to exercise political muscle to free people imprisoned by the Romans (the obvious cultural context that would have been understood by his listeners). Emphatically, no!
Telling Kent that his “unjust” imprisonment is an attack of Satan and that Angels are (metaphorically) about to bust him out is wrong and will only prolong his mental anguish and that of his family. He’ll be in jail from age 54 to age 64. Period.
Thus, the Christian response to Kent should be, here and in private correspondence:
“Dear Kent. We are so sorry that your sin has had such grievous consequences. We know that often bad things happen to us and that God seems silent. We pray that the reflection you have been forced into by your circumstance will eventually allow you to publicly make the full apology you have yet not made, since you have at every juncture continued to rail at your predicament as though none of it was of your own making. We pray for you, but in this regard. We pray that, as Calvin said ‘that we ought to strive by all possible means to bring you to a better mind, and recover you to the fellowship and unity of the Church’, for is it with great sadness that we discern that the supposed ’scientific’ basis your faith is based on, and your morality (concerning money) are not those that the Christian Church, in the majority, share.
Then, the Christian response would be to stop, and await the evidence that this admonition had caused repentance and renewal. This would come in the guise of Kent Hovind apologising and repenting, abandoning all self justification for his predicament and acknowledging his beliefs were wrong.
If this never comes, then forget Kent Hovind ever existed. Don’t advance his banner. Don’t argue his case. Don’t bother.
selbyw1
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 9:59pm:FuManchu, you comments are totally out of place. You May not believe in God, but that does not mean He still won’t Judge you severly for making that comment about a righteous man. I reference the scriptures in the Old Testament, when the young teenagers were mocking God’s annointed Elisha, and they were killed and eatened by bears. Behold “God is not mocked,” and neither are His annointed . Praise the Lord, for Kent Hovind revealing the truth about the lies of evolution and strengthing my faith through college.
jwalker
Said this on May 23rd, 2007 at 10:36pm:Dear Dr. Hovind,
No temptation has seized you beyond what is common to man. And even when you are tempted, God is faithful and just and will offer you a way out that you can stand up under it.
remain strong good, brother, because the God that we serve is a just God. I believe that you believe this truth. and i also believe that if anything can bring us closer to our Christ, it is to understand persecution because they, too, persecuted Christ. Scripture even said, “they persecute you because of me.” So the other side of this coin is you are experiencing Christ in a way that we can never can compare. Remember Joseph, remember Jerimiah, remember Samson, remember Daniel, remember the apostles like Peter and Paul and John…you walk a road closer to them, the same road they have walked that was closest to the Cross of Christ. be strong and joyful, my friend because if God is with you, whome shall you fear? your family and friends and supporters are doing our part too, so do your part and do it well for Him.
We pray, you pray..and He hears. now hear me on this brother and remember well…even if God’s answer is no, it is still an answer. However, even if it’s a “no”… i bid you, friend, to make it such a “no” that it would be so blessed and benificial to your ministry and to your family and to the glory of God that the world may be encouraged by the amazing plans and provisions in the final and perfect plan of God.
-jwalker
Galatians110vt
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 2:01am:I just can’t believe some of the insanity on this blog. I do like Dr. Hovind. It is a very bad situation he and his wife are in. Kent has been through a lot but HE STILL BROKE THE LAW!!!!!! The Gov’t is not out to get him. I read some of the court documents that can be found on the net and the IRS gave him ample warning. This whole thing started years ago. Even the president of Pensicola Christian College told him to pay his taxes. If he applied for 501 (c)3 status this whole thing would not have happened. Being a Gov’t worker I do know that if you don’t antagonize (sue, put signs up) the Gov’t they will leave you alone for the most part. He is probably being moved so much because he pissed off the Gov’t that bad. I think that the Gov’t made this personnal but he still should have paid his taxes. As Romans 13:5-7 says in the NIV “Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you PAY TAXES, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: IF YOU OWE TAXES, PAY TAXES;” That is all I got to say about that. Don’t hate, just use your brain that God gave you and pray for Kent and His family.
Paulus
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 6:33am:Brother Kent, I see you’re posting many such parables. First the vase to the potter and now the axe to the woodsman. If see your punishment as a sort of axe-sharpening, well, I guess that’s a legitimate way to find a positive approach to it.
Keep up your spirit, get a better defense strategy for the next trials to come, and return to us earlier than in 10 years. Which was, in my humble opinion, a way too harsh sentence,
mtlionsroar
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 7:25am:Dear Kent:
How good it was to hear from you! I’ll continue to pray for you, your family & CSE ministry. I’m so sorry to hear about your horrible treatment, but so glad to hear how the gospel is being spread to those who need it so desperately. I know God has His plan, and that He sent you there to witness to these people–I just wish the sacrifice of your family wasn’t so hard on everyone. I pray God continues to give you strength, wisdom, favor in the eyes of the guards & judges, comfort and peace. Even through all this, what a blessing to know that the salvation God grants can never be taken away, nor diminish in any aspect! Praise God for His mercy!
I loved the piece about the ax and the woodsman. Once again, you continue to teach us through your own experiences and wisdom. And I guess the ax never knows how long the ’sharpening’ process will take; only until the woodsman is satisfied. But just think of how much better the ax can be used then! How much LONGER the ax can continue to cut down those oaks! What a privilege we have to be used for His Kingdom. May we never loose hope, or grow weary or disheartened. Thank you for your beautiful example of a Godly man.
Much love in our Lord,
Dee
P.S. Thanks again Paul, for all you do!
FuManchu
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 9:33am:selbyw1,
Many thanks for your advice; I’ll attempt to stay away from bears.
It’s interesting to note, however, that while saying “You’re wrong and I hope bears kill and eat you” would be considered rude and malicious, saying “You’re wrong and people like you get killed and eaten by bears” is apparently harmless theological conjecture. I’ll have to try that one for myself.
jfahler
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 9:52am:Teno [May 23, first post] said:
“Get a job Fu Manchu and get off the welfare rolls.”
That seriously made my day, Teno. I just wanted to thank you for a real laugh… heh… yeah… that FuManchu character certainly needs to get off welfare… off of the public dole! [EDITED ...]
[EDITED ...]
Why do you fundies even keep trying? I’ve learned to ignore what’s said… but to observe what’s going on usually for the sake of entertainment. You only end up making fools out of yourselves.
And for the record: Hovind was wrong on the microchips. At least I don’t have any weird cuts…
Sade Tennyson
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 10:41am:The joy of the Lord Jesus will remain your strength brother Kent Hovind!!!
Sade Tennyson
gravy1
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 10:51am:WAIT A MINUTE! Who said that what Dr. Hovind did was a sin!!!!!!!? It’s sickening to see people who call themselves Christians sit back and wimp out! Did you forget Miles Standish! Those who came to this country for freedom. Do you really want communism? The sad thing for those who critise Dr. Hovind is that they are trapped in their political views. YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER PICKED UP THE NEWSPAPER! YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE WATCHED THE “TODAY” SHOW! Now you are brainwashed and a slave to certian policial leaders who give you what THEY want.
Don’t quote scripture to him about why he’s wrong and you’re right. If you do, you are no better than those who put the Apostle Paul on trial. He isn’t Paul, but he’s a leader for our day.
I’m praying for Dr. Hovind. But I want to do more that that, I want to stand up for him. He’s worthy of my respect. I may not sound humble enough, but Jesus didn’t sound all that humble when he turned the tables over in the sancuary. The biggest problem in America today is our “sancuaries”. I don’t mind following in our Lords footsteps and turning over tables!
gravy1
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 10:59am:Skillet,
Thanks for the comments. I’m trying to figure out how to organize something. Right now, I’m calling everyone I know. I started emailing the white house when I found out. I contacted them yesturday and I plan on contacting them every day! I contacted the Voice of the Martyrs, no response yet. I don’t know if they will say anything because this is a political issue and there are those who would like to say that he’s done something morally wrong. The Devil knows scripture and it doesn’t suprise me that he’s using it to his advantage. This is a spiritural battle. We are all in trouble if our president doesn’t veto the “hate crimes” act. We may all end up like Dr. Hovind, if we have the guts to stand like he has. If we don’t shake something up, we’ll all be even more persecuted than we already are.
Phred
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 1:22pm:If any of you God-fearing Christian folk have ever wondered why the vast majority of the population of the world looks at you and shakes their heads, this is why. A man, Kent there, uses the pent-up righteous fury over scientific facts that contradict a certain interpretation of scripture to suck money from people and uses a fair share of it to line his own pockets. He fails to pay taxes on this money. He’s caught, put in jail and the very people he bilked out of the money are the ones defending him from some grand conspiracy.
This has nothing to do with God or religion or belief or persecution. It has everything to do with what happens when a man finds power over other men and can’t restrain his use of it. You don’t need leaders to tear down something you don’t understand… you need to go and learn about it so you DO understand it. Then you can make your own decisions. One afternoon with a good textbook in a library and all of this would be averted. Instead here we all are… spouting nonsense at each other. Threats about the vengeful God we’re all going to face whether we like it or not.
You’ve got plenty of time on your hands Kent… maybe you could use it to become an honest man.
Leif
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 3:00pm:Hello Dearly Beloved Dr. Kent Hovind and family.
This is my first comment on this blog, as I do not want to read so much what others think about you , good or bad.
I do want to encourage you.
I am daily praying for you.
Don’t lose faith that God is a prayer answering God. I have faith and a working mouth thank God and prayer changes things!
I wish I could speak with you privately to encourage you with certain words from God.
This blog is not that kind of a place, I am just writing this to “ping” you and say.. You are a very dear brother and I will never cease to pray for you as long as we are on this earth.
You got a friend for life Kent!
Sincerely in Christ Jesus,
Leif Andersen,
Bergen, Norway.
Housesofhealing
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 4:51pm:1 Timothy 4:1-3 KJV The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
Matthew 24:38-39 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Dear Ax
Do you not trust the hands of your woodsman who has swung you all this time? I have never dropped you. Never laid you idle. Never swung you wrong. Never let you rust. Never forgetten you. My dear ax, bold and strong….you have done nothing wrong but all things right. Trust your woodsman. I know you can’t feel the strong grip of my hands you know so well. Try not to struggle. Ax…..Ax…focus on me. On the sound of my voice. Ax….Ax…do not look away. Focus on my face. Don’t look away from me. I know it is difficult to understand this. I know you are in pain. And yes the oak…..we have work together clearing many forests….dead and decaying rot and timber. You have done well and continue to hold up under the great building pressure. I know it hurts. I know your pain. All answer will come in time. Pain though it hurts does not mean something bad is happening. You will understand in time why I grind your best places off of you. You are doing well. I do hear you, Ax. Do you hear me? I do know what I am doing. The master expects the best of us and the master knoes of my doings. The trees will be there. Trust the hands of your woodsman.
The woodsman
baliset
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 4:56pm:The last time I read the Bible, gravy1, stealing was a sin.
Lying about stealing was enough for God to strike people dead,
and refusing to repent of sin was enough for someone to go to Hell.
Seems pretty plain to me. Maybe your Bible doesn’t have those bits.
And if you can’t see that as less than obvious, then you aren’t just an observer or commentator of these events: you’re a big part of the problem.
EndTimes
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 10:05pm:May 24 Phred
Said this at 1:22pm:
“A man, Kent there, uses the pent-up righteous fury over scientific facts that contradict a certain interpretation of scripture to suck money from people and uses a fair share of it to line his own pockets.”
Dear Phred, please document what funds have been misappropriated from Dr. Hovind’s ministry as you have accused him. If you are going to be held accountable for your judgements against “Kent” then perhaps having the correct information would be a good start otherwise you have committed libel. I am unaware of ANY accusations that funds were not used by CSE as stated, for furtherance of the ministry goals.
“Said this at 1:22pm: You don’t need leaders to tear down something you don’t understand… you need to go and learn about it so you DO understand it. Then you can make your own decisions. One afternoon with a good textbook in a library and all of this would be averted.”
I did just that. I read a book by a man named Stephen J. Gould, and when I was done, I applied his same logic that he used against his antagonists and I walked away shaking my head at his own stupidity on the subject of evolution. No wonder his critics refer to his theory as “evolution by jerks.” I guess, you have also insulted me and called me ignorant. So be it, but you are also wrong on this issue as well.
In kindness,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 10:24pm:May 24 baliset
Said this at 4:56pm:
“The last time I read the Bible, gravy1, stealing was a sin.
Lying about stealing was enough for God to strike people dead,
and refusing to repent of sin was enough for someone to go to Hell.”
Dear baliset,
I’m sorry, but, what has Dr. Hovind stolen? Standing on the principle of sovereignty is not stealing, even if he is now paying the consequences for his actions. According to God’s law, the IRS is the one guilty of stealing. Remember, Caesar does not have authority over God. Secondly, what did he lie about? Please show me that documentation. I somehow missed that accusation previously.
You are correct however, that refusing to repent of sin is enough to send you to hell. That again is a choice that you will have to make for yourself. The offer of salvation is available to all and is a free gift for the taking, but repentance is usually one of the fruits of coming to salvation.
Lastly, why is everyone expecting Dr. Hovind to publicly “repent” and “admit guilt” for an issue that is still pending appeal? You must think he was born yesterday if you keep looking for such an admission while he is in the midst of appeals. Perhaps, YOU were born yesterday if that is your expectation. I am sure that the prosecutor would love such an admission. I am sure that Dr. Hovind’s lawyer has instructed him on what he can and can’t say. Think about it before you keep looking for something that is a ridiculous expectation.
It again is an issue between Dr. Hovind and God alone and those within Dr. Hovind’s family and church. I suspect that if there is something that God wishes to have Dr. Hovind repent of, it has already been discussed between them while he enjoyed his solitary confinement especially.
In kindness,
ewelamb
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 10:30pm:Dr. Hovind,
I appreciated this letter and the one about the vase; they really spoke to my heart. Praise the Lord that He knows what He is doing when we cannot see. I’m so glad I’m not in charge of my life, even though the refining process is so painful.
EndTimes
Said this on May 24th, 2007 at 10:40pm:May 24 jfahler
Said this at 9:52am:
“Why do you fundies even keep trying? I’ve learned to ignore what’s said… but to observe what’s going on usually for the sake of entertainment. You only end up making fools out of yourselves.”
Dear jfahler,
I know full well that the preaching of the gospel is foolishness to the lost, yet it is the way in which the Lord chose to reach this lost world. I also know one other thing:
PSALM 14
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.
THE fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.
5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.
6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.
7 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
Well, my friend, God has brought his people out of captivity and placed them again in the promised land on May 14, 1948. Just as He has fulfilled His promises to Israel, so also shall He keep all of His promises to me and to all believers. He will also keep His promise to those that refuse the ransom He paid for your sins and He will with sadness let you pay yourself. If you wish to pay for them yourself, then who my friend is really the fool?
In kindness,
EndTimes
pistolpete_1980
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 12:44am:This Last Poem scares me… In previous poems it seemed as though Kent understood that he was being tested or whatever for the better, but now it seems as though he cannot understand what is going on, or how is will make him a better servant. I hope your ok Kent….
steelingminds
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 12:53am:Greeting brother Hovind and family. You are constantly in my prayers, and I eagerly await the reunion. In the meantime, Pentecost is upon us, and so I bid you all happy Shavout!
steelingminds
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 1:08am:Greeting brother Hovind and family. Peace in Yeshua! I find it comical how those with so much less time invested in educating oneself on rending unto Caesar wiegh in as though its elementary. So be it; they know not what they say or do. Nevertheless, Hovind I hope you up as a great example for true Scripture-thumping Christains in these trying times. May God’s angels surround and protect you as you are being honed for even greater service to YHVH. My prayers are with you, and as Pentecost rapidly approaches – I bid you and yours “Happy Shavout!”
Chris Jones
synthesist
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 3:36am:I have no sympathy for Hovind whatsoever – using religon as a cover for seperating people from their money, and finally being caught for tax evasion – tough. I also feel sorry for all the deluded people that still support him – wise up, he’s a crook.
Emanuel Goldstein
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 6:20am:Jesus solved this problem long ago.
Give Caesar what is Caesars, the the Lords what is the Lords.
Repent, and quit chasing mammon.
It will get you out of jail quicker, and back to your work.
gravy1
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 6:55am:I’m sorry you feel that way. Last I checked, Dr. Hovind didn’t steal anything. Dinosour Adventure Land is non profit. His volunteers were paid, but they were not considered “regular” empolyees. His defense of whether or not he stole anything is our disagreement, not the Bible.
Thank you for saying that, “I’m a big part of the problem”. It’s the very least I can do.
jfahler
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 12:39pm:For the record, I wanted to take back my earlier criticism of “why do you fundies keep trying” (May 24) as it was a bit harsh.
Still, I do reassert the fact that I fail to understand why so many defend this criminal.
Bethesda
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 12:47pm:Truly I thank God for what has happened to Doctor Hovind because of the fact that true fruit is worked out during persecutions. My ministry has endured countless persectutions as the Bible promises. The biggest persecutors are always the RELIGIOUS (stupid reprobates)! They are far from righteous- actually the opposite, they are the ones who call good evil and evil good! Oh yes those pagans love to throw in their 2 cents but that IS to be expected!!!
So has Dr. Hovind commited any wrong? YES! He is serving Jesus and that royally disses the devil (the god of this world) off so he will try to cause all sorts of havoc! But other than in reality, even in this world, he has done no evil becuase the IRS is 100% illegal anyways! How can you follow it’s laws when there’s not even a stated law to pay your taxes in the first place? Talk about a law created to be broken!!!!!
SO I AM HOPING THAT DR. HOVIND WILL READ THIS AND KNOW THAT GOD IS SO GOOD TO DO THIS, IT PROVES HE IS TRULY GOD’S SON AND NOT A BASTARD SON BECUASE HE IS GIVING HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE WHAT HE HAS BEEN SAYING ALL THIS TIME. GOD PROVES HIS TRUE ONES BY TRYING THEM BY FIRE!
Please Dr. Hovind, NEVER REPENT for what people are beating you to! We are not of this kingdom- it would be impossible to please them! They are unBiblical for not obeying Christ first, they love their god more than THE LIVING GOD.
To God the proof you’re real is way more important than anything else, even evangelism- hence the first and most important command! I too have an extreme passion for evangelizing but God has me in the place most of the time where He is just proving me.
Why doesn’t He just let me work and work and work for Him? (Don’t you know there are people to be told and souls to be saved!?!?!)
BECAUSE HE WANTS ME WORKING *****WITH****** HIM- THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT!
If you stay strong in Christ you will come forth glorious, even if you die trying.
It’s the ones who finish are the ones who win the race.
Beth
Bethesda
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 1:11pm:LETTER TO THE AX
IN RESPONSE TO YOUR RECENT INQUIRIES
DEAR AX:
BEFORE I KNEW YOU, YES IT WAS TRUE, TO ME YOU WERE A GREVIOUS GANDER
FOR ONCE YOU WERE A TREE, UNPLEASING TO ME BUT NOW YOUR PURPOSE WILL SHOW
I GROUND YOU TO A NUB AND RETRIEVED YOU WITH LOVE SO THAT I COULD HANDLE
BUT IF YOU CHOP AND CHOP AND YOU NEVER STOP, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GROW?
SO NOW SHOW TRUE AS I HAVE DONE IN YOU, THE WORK OF MY OWN HANDS
Work WITH me instead of FOR me because that is what I want YOU to know
THE WOODSMAN
Calladus
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 7:32pm:Mr. Hovind,
I’ve seen it said on the Internet in other places that you are being tested as Job was tested. I think the truth should be obvious.
According to you and your supporters you were unlawfully incarcerated. At your trial you pleaded to pay back the monies that the Federal Government said you owed, you would have handed over that money even though you are certain that you do not owe anything. In this, you attempted to flee God’s will.
Could it be that God has a commission for you to accomplish in jail? Perhaps, at some point in your life, you felt the calling to evangelize the incarcerated, but instead you ignored it and did your own will.
You are not Job, Mr. Hovind, you are Jonah. The Federal trial swallowed you up, and has spit you out safely on the shore of the Federal prison system. God has made his will abundantly clear, that you are to witness to your fellow inmates. Jonah brought 120,000 people to God, perhaps you should stick around long enough to bring a few yourself?
Of course… I could be wrong.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 8:34pm:to Darling[last sighted May 24, 6.54 am] while you are still around JURIDICAL darling could you assist Samphire and myself with your definition of “non-taxable income” as it might be construed for or from “table 26″;
and is “table 26″ technically a “statutory regulation” rather than an “act of congress” per se?
and are you prepared to concede a distinction between “public citizen” and “private citizen”?
and while it might not be of “your interest” has the constitutionality of “partial birth abortion” ever been tested before a Jury?
And where and when did congress obtain the mandate to make laws concerning all the people on earth – if that is the impression you want it to give?
And do the words “We the people …” have any force and effect at law?
And seeing Congress have passed a law concerning “my” tax status with the United States Government and are assuming dominion over my affairs {lets play the game on your terms for a while} am I thus entitled to a social security number from them and entitled to vote in U.S., elections? Perhaps you can apply on STRAMINEUS’s behalf or lodge a proxy vote.
Also specifically regarding your last post.
the “Set of Individuals” might specifically mean the set of all human beings. I say “might”, although it is by no means grammatically certain.
the “Set of United States citizens” is defined by birth certificates and/ or passport holders and or voter registrations [perhaps there are other criteria or criterion]
title 26, so you say, “imposes a tax upon every individual”.
Yet you say I am exempt. How then is it imposing a tax on every individual?
If I am exempt how do you know that the “Set of United States citizens” is not likewise exempt?
Thus the criteria or criterion of how “table 26″ IMPOSES ITSELF on an individual is indeed most significant.
If you can answer these questions adequately I shall grant you the use of Q.E.D. and your respectable return to the blog.
If not what you are saying is mathematically and grammatically unsound and Paul Abramson really should decide on a motion to censure.
For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead.
Thomas Jefferson
Also to Endtimes, [I don't know why you are here]
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson
Dear Entimes,
I believe you said; the government and the IRS make the rules.
Have you ever considered the difference between rules, regulations and the law? Have you considered the difference between public and private citizens?
I agree with you on one point. It is easy to romanticize the past. Likewise it is difficult to disengage from the reality 20 million aborted babies and the construction of concentration camps and the profound ignorance of man to obtain remedy.
To Warocuya [I hope you are still listening] Something you said about laying down and playing dead was very important I believe. Every school yard bully wants “their village” to lay down and play dead. And no one finds it easy to say the emperor has no clothes on.
God Bless You who love Truth.
all Glory to Jesus.
Arne
Said this on May 25th, 2007 at 11:22pm:Dear Dr. Kent & Jo Hovind,
I want to let you know that we are frequently praying for you and your release. I watched your seminar for the first time a year ago, and then I thought I’d like to know more about you, so I googled your name, and I was shocked about what I learned. Then I learnt and read a bit about the charges raised against you, and what people used to write on the internet. It saddened me to read about all the negative attitudes, to read about the proposed charges and the WAY they were presented against you. The sentence itself was extremely harsh. The comments from the papers and the wiki pedia also. This became a clear public proof to me that you are unrightfully persecuted for the sake of Christ. This is a good witness about the importance of your ministry. When I told my colleagues about this, they were in awe about the way God must be working through you, when you can endure such opposition!
Please, take courage, my friends! Stay strong in the Lord! Keep up the good work for Him! Your work is not in vain! Kent, since God has allowed you to be imprisoned, it sure is meant for good and for the furthering of the Gospel, even if His ways sometimes are hard to understand. When I looked at your case, and the various arguments, I believe that you are right, even if that means that you may or may not have technically broken some of the laws of the US. The Constitution is of course to your advantage. But I’m afraid no one listens to the Constitution these days. The case about the structuring was a farce! The structuring-law itself is useless to mean anything, unless the convict himself really states that he is guilty of structuring towards a proposed criminal act. The Law is based on public opinion only! Technically it means that 250 million Americans is structuring, and this could be brought against them if they were charged for something. This also includes the judge himself. For who knows the purpose? In the light of this, and in the light of the sentences usually passed to criminals, I clearly see that they gave you at least SEVEN years too much, even if you were to be found guilty on ALL the charges. And that is PERSECUTION. MAYBE GOD ALLOWED THIS SO THAT THE INJUSTICE COULD BE CLEAR EVEN TO THE UNBELIEVERS? Maybe this would help many Americans see what happened to their freedom once sought out by their forefathers that fled from Europe?
Kent and Jo you are in our prayers! Be strong in the Lord! Trust in Him! Be comforted in Him. Think of His promises, and know that your work is not in vain.
With love in Jesus,
Arne Tafjord
Rom. 1,16
JR Turner
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 12:15am:Do you REALLY want to know???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPooplZuv-0 10 minute preview
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1784147019818189259&q=The+Truth+Behind+The+Income+Tax Almost 2 hours
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=America+Freedom+to+Fascism Almost 2 hours
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1658315558785013776&q=Sherry+Peel+Jackson Almost 2 hours
Kent and Jo Hovind are INNOCENT!!! The FRAUD continues!!!
praybird
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 2:27am:We still support and pray for the Hovinds, I thank God he stood for truth and blessed so many people.
I want to say that we haven’t been able to send any monies for this ministry. We have been helping my daughter and 3 children because of some difficult times she has been going through.
Also we never have agreed with everything Dr. Hovind said on his videos, like he said take the meat and spit out the bones. From what I been reading on here there is a person by the name of glen stoll who had somehow gained the Hovinds trust, and he deceived them and many other ministries. Also, in one of the first posts, Dr. Hovind said he wasn’t at liberty to tell the whole situation on this but at sometime in the future he would explain all of this. Untill he is able to do so I think it would be respectful and prudent to suppport him and pray for him. He also said to the judge to impose his wifes sentance on him. I believe he is very broken about this. Wouldn’t you be? Do you sit there and pass judgement on him like Jobs so called friends? We have all sinned in one way or another. All of us that includes those who have been so critical and judging of this man of God. There is not one person on the face of the earth that has not sinned against God. Why do you think they want people to believe Evolution? Because they don’t want to be accountable to the Higher Authority who has made the Heavens and the Earth.
It is also noted that every disciple except for John, was martyered. They were tortured and enslaved and murdered for the Lords sake.
David at one time was hiding in the caves with fugitives that were wanted by the law. Because a one King Saul was looking for him to kill him because he was jealous. David later became King. David also broke the Levitical law by eating the shewbread in the holy of holies, and He didn’t die. God saw Davids heart. He looks at the heart, and not on the outward.
God is the God of the second chance. He is merciful, and Just. He had mercy on me over and over again. When I was in the gutter he came and rescued me, cleaned me up and forgave me. He is an awesome God, worthy to serve and to praise. At one time in my life I was a very bitter, hard person, I hated everyone, one night I prayed and I heard the voice of the Lord speak to me “Harden not your heart and I will give you the Victory.” The Lord took this stoney heart and gave me a heart of Love and forgiveness and flesh. Even when we endured much adversity he has given us the grace to still keep a heart of Love. I praise him for that. There is much in this life that can cause a person to become hard, but if we trust in Him, He will not fail, He will be faithful to the end. God keeps his promises. His Word is Truth and Faithful.
Man makes Laws, and in the recent years many have turned from the Lord and have gone their own way, some in authority passing laws that is not from God.
There are many people who owe much more money to the Irs than does Kent Hovind and they are not being prosecuted. Why is that? Why aren’t they being chained and abused like this man is? Why aren’t the murderers, child molesters being treated this way??? They chain this man in chains and he has never murdered, nor abused anyone in his life. Why would they put shackles on this man? This is downright disgusting to me. This is certainly making me question much of what justice system does.
I was raised in an orphanage for 9 years while my dad was in the US Military, how he was able to put us there I still don’t have the answers. He died in active duty when I turned 18 during the vietnam war and is buried in Arlington National Cemetary. I thank God for Dr. Hovinds teachings, they have blessed us so much and I also wonder how many lives have been touched to live responsibly and right because of what he taught? How many have turned from violence and destruction because of his teachings. It really would be prudent for them to let him out so he can touch many more lives for the Lord. Monies can be paid back, but from what I can see Dr. Hovind blessed so many lives for the good. He was right when he said that Evolutionary teaching in the schools destroy kids lives. It is amazing to me in an affluent society with much materialsm and technology that our kids are angry, and full of violence? Why is that? Why are they taking guns to school and shooting their own? They are being taught that there is no God, so there is no accountability, they freely hand out condoms and say it is okay to have sex any time with anyone. How many times are we going to see shooting in the schools and teenagers with Aids before they wake up?
We continue to pray and support these precious people, we pray for a miracle that Mrs. Hovind will somehow be spared. And that Dr. Hovind will be released to be with his family. May God have mercy on America. We need revival. God bless from Don and Brenda and family.
djhouk
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 12:55pm:Baliset has suggested that Kent is a liar. I must agree, but don’t take my word for it; that’s what a Federal judge in US Bankruptcy Court called him.
Some background:
In 1996, the IRS, claiming they had no evidence Kent Hovind had ever filed a tax return, assessed him a total of some $21,000 for the tax years 1989-1995. Kent filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy, and under penalty of purgery, claimed he had no income, no expenses, and (more importantly) no assets. But the judge determined that he owned 3 vehicles, which had been seized by the IRS in partial fulfillment of its lien.
The judge found that:
“The evidence presented at the hearing paints a clear portrait of a tax protester whose sole purpose in seeking relief under chapter 13 was to obtain the release of property seized by the IRS.”
“The debtor having failed to file his federal income tax returns for at least the years 1989 through 1995, having resisted collection efforts by the IRS, and having provided false information in his schedules and statement of affairs in connection with this case, I find that the debtor filed this petition in bad faith and as such the petition is subject to dismissal for cause under the provisions of 11 U.S.C. 1307(c).”
The judge’s complete ruling is here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hovind_Bankruptcy_Decision
Note that this case is not directly related to his later charges and imprisonment, but it does provide some insight into Kent’s aversion to paying taxes.
darling
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 2:27pm:hiswordisafire Said this at 5:18pm May23:
“how are you posting things onto this website if you’re in a federal prison? do they let you have internet access?”
Mr. Hovind hand writes his missives, then somebody types it up and posts it here. I don’t think you have the internet in jail.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 said this at 5:58pm May23:
“It would take you a few months I suspect to get your head around…
this is several more days reading on the history of money…
There is also several days reading on the history of promissory notes”
On the other hand, here is several seconds of reading:
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#capitals
“People more academically inclined than myself have spoken with senior people in various legal fraternities who have confirmed the distinction is real.”
“The Court finds this argument to be frivolous.”
“These arguments are patently frivolous”
That doesn’t bode well…
Galatians110vt said this at 2:01am May24:
“I read some of the court documents that can be found on the net and the IRS gave him ample warning… If he applied for 501 (c)3 status this whole thing would not have happened.”
501(c)(3) status would not have helped Mr. Hovind. The same rules apply.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 said this at 6:53pm May24:
“but there are so many people [EDITED] inside their own egos simple facts will not convince many of the contributors to this blog.”
This message brought to you today by Pot and Black Kettle, Inc.
EndTimes Said this at 10:24pm May24:
“what has Dr. Hovind stolen?”
Money from everyone else who have to make up the shortfall on the taxes he was supposed to pay. Hi employees are also in the hole for the money Mr. Hovind should have withheld.
“Remember, Caesar does not have authority over God.”
Mr. Hovind is not God.
gravy1 Said this at 6:55am May25:
“His volunteers were paid, but they were not considered “regular” employees.”
That’s the problem. Calling a puddle a swimming pool doesn’t make it so.
Mr. Hovind treated the people working for him exactly like employees. They got paid, they worked set hours, they were disciplined for infractions, etc. Therefore they were employees.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 Said this at 8:34pm May25:
“is “table 26″ technically a “statutory regulation” rather than an “act of congress” per se?”
Once again, Title 26 is a compilation of acts of congress.
It is not a “statutory regulation.”
“and are you prepared to concede a distinction between “public citizen” and “private citizen”?”
Any distinction – if one exists – is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
“And seeing Congress have passed a law concerning “my” tax status with the United States Government and are assuming dominion over my affairs {lets play the game on your terms for a while} am I thus entitled to a social security number from them and entitled to vote in U.S., elections?”
No and no.
“Also specifically regarding your last post…
title 26, so you say, “imposes a tax upon every individual”.
I never said that.
Title 26 imposes a tax upon the taxable income of every individual. But that’s not the same thing as imposing a tax upon every individual. An important distinction.
“Yet you say I am exempt. How then is it imposing a tax on every individual?”
I never said you were exempt.
And Title 26 doesn’t impose a tax on every individual.
“ If I am exempt how do you know that the “Set of United States citizens” is not likewise exempt?
You’re not exempt.
Ekkman
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 3:28pm:I have been preaching the word of God for years and the more that I see the more it verifies that the word is true. The Lord Jesus Christ said, “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.” A government that will allow the killing of innocent little babies in the womb of their mothers will do anything. There isn’t anything they would not allow or do in the negative.
Here are a few truths that I wrote on my web site.
“First they seek to kill your offspring by abortion and if they fail at that then they will take another route. They will try to kill your kids through vaccinations and if that doesn’t work, they have other ways. They poison our food with chemicals, give us soy to drink and eat. They put it in most of our packaged foods. They are working on ways to cure cancer as they ask you for money for research while cancer is being cured all over the world. There is a cure today yet in America there are those who are doing their “research” to find a “cure” and it has already been found. It is a vitamin deficiency problem. People are being cured of cancer by eating the right foods, taking the right vitamins. But it is a big money making project for them NOT to find a cure for cancer in America.
They are working through the public school system to try to convince you that your ancestors were monkeys. That particular teaching will help you see the unimportance of your life. You are a tiny bit of protoplasm on planet earth with no significance. It will help you to think that you are no more important than a monkey and if they kill, experiment on them then they should be able to do the same thing to humans, you are just a little more evolved but really no more important than monkeys..
They make you listen to garbage called music just about everywhere you go. It desentizes you, helps you not to think. The day cares are taking your children for the day so when you get home, tired and worn you don’t seem to have the time for them. They are pumping our children with drugs at the schools now, from prozac to ridlen… Saying things like they are too hyper, some will add uncontrollable. Since spankings are out of vogue then I could see that the kids would be uncontrollable at times. I thought it was a good thing for kids to be hyper or at least at one time it was.
They contaminate our drinking water with flouride and clorine. Even our toothpaste has flouride and it has been outlawed in many parts of the world. Many in America are buying bottled water since the water that we have isn’t worth drinking now. Many places are using Canola Oil to cook the foods that we eat. Canola oil is toxic. “LEAR” oil (Low Erucic Acid Rape) is another name for it. It is more commonly known as “rape oil,” a semi-drying oil that is used as a lubricant, fuel, soap and synthetic rubber base, and as an illuminant to give color pages in magazines their slick look. In short it is an industrial oil that does not belong in the human body. It is typically referred to in light industry as a penetrating oil. And they are cooking our food with it???
They put us in one war after another and it is usually for political reasons or for money. They are killing a lot of our younger generation off in that way too since they didn’t get them by the abortion, vaccinations, chemicals in our food, etc.
Many believe the news coming from the media as if they were “angels”, God or “gods” as some would put it and would never lie to us yet most that we hear or see is one-sided and many of their lies are mixed with a just enough truth to make it acceptable. But we could honestly say most of it is untrue. We are being programmed, prepared for destruction and most don’t seem to see it happening.
Most of all, they are rewriting our history books seeking to do away with God, the God that this country was founded on. They are even trying to get the 10 Commandments off of the walls in our Supreme Court. All of our laws were based on the 10 Commandments at one time and now they are only suggestions. They are wrong suggestions for the politically correct though. The Lord Jesus Christ said that the days in the end times would be super bad. In his words, “For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. (Mark 13:19,20) I think of the Dark Ages when the Roman Catholic Church was killing millions of Christians and how bad those days were and yet the bible says that the very last days will be even worse. Mankind will go all out, so to speak, to show just how evil he is without the the Lord Jesus Christ in his life.”
From all the negative things that we see are happening on planet earth, the Lord has this to say to his people, “We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” (II Cor. 5:8)
“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
Christians walking the light of the Lord Jesus Christ are the only hope for this nation.
I agree with JR Turner
“Kent and Jo Hovind are INNOCENT!!! The FRAUD continues!!!”
Danny
http://www.ekkcom.net
EndTimes
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 4:19pm:May 25 jfahler
Said this at 12:39pm:
“For the record, I wanted to take back my earlier criticism of “why do you fundies keep trying” (May 24) as it was a bit harsh.
Still, I do reassert the fact that I fail to understand why so many defend this criminal.”
Dear jfahler,
Dr. Hovind, right or wrong on his tax issues is still a child of God and is a loved member of that family. Are we without any of the love of Christ even in the midst of his trials? I may not agree with all of his methods, but of a love of the gospel in this man there is no doubt. Would it be that we had more that loved God’s Word as much. Yes, I shall remain a loyal supporter of this man and his quest that all men would turn to the Lord. God stood by David even in the midst of his murder and adultery. Love the sinner and hate the sin is the way that God has given us example. Would it be that in your darkest hour you should have someone lending their love and support as well.
In kindness,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 4:29pm:May 25 Calladus
Said this at 7:32pm:
“Could it be that God has a commission for you to accomplish in jail? Perhaps, at some point in your life, you felt the calling to evangelize the incarcerated, but instead you ignored it and did your own will.”
It is a fool that makes accusations from ignorance. I am one witness of Dr. Hovind’s visitations to those incarcerated in a maximum security prison on a cold winters night about three years ago. He gave of his time and at his own risk without a single advertisement of the meeting which was set up months in advance. So, only fools criticize that which they know not. This visit to a maximum security was by far not his first my friend. Please repent of unwise remarks and judgements for your own good. When was your last vist, by the way, to those in prison as Matthew 25 commands?
You are not Job, Mr. Hovind, you are Jonah. The Federal trial swallowed you up, and has spit you out safely on the shore of the Federal prison system. God has made his will abundantly clear, that you are to witness to your fellow inmates. Jonah brought 120,000 people to God, perhaps you should stick around long enough to bring a few yourself?
Of course… I could be wrong.
Yes, I agree, you are quite wrong and I would suggest repentance on you knees before your God before He uses your own words against you on your day of judgement.
Still amazed at those that wish to trample on a man that has lost all. Amazing and sad. What does Dr. Hovind owe to you my friends? It is between him and His God.
EndTimes
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 7:38pm:Dear DissappointedSandy [may24],
You are making some valid points I believe. But whether or not Brother Kent’s mistakes were sin is between him and God and him and God alone – otherwise, if you want to assume the position of a prophet or prophetess within the Church of the Living God just stand up and say so – because maybe God has told you something that He has told none of us.
I personally think that on the balance of probabilities Brother Kent is profoundly ignorant of the LEGAL FICTION presuppositions used against him – thus his JURISTIC PERSONA or the STRAMINEUS is “PERSON UNFIT TO STAND TRIAL”.
You will also note from some of his comments that he really is suffering from a type of post traumatic stress syndrome which is another reason he should be released immediately/ today – and or given time for rest in psychiatric care to assess his complete health. That is one more reason we should pray for his safe passage and deliverance.
To summarize, and only in part, because there is much more to say:
KENT HOVIND is innocent because “it” is PERSON UNFIT TO STAND TRIAL
because Brother Kent was acting as a Minister of the Gospel and not a business man with a scheme of evading tax [CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENTS]
because the Jury was not sui Juris [on the balance of probabilities]
because the summary of events was deficient [on the balance of probabilities]
because contracts were void [PERSON UNFIT TO STAND TRIAL plus; and/ or FAILURE OF FULL DISCLOSURE ]
because “public servants” failed in their duty of care [common law arguments - see superior laws]
the fact is, on the basis of Common Law and the Constitutional law, Brother Kent had and has a really excellent case to present but the whole thing was totally botched – which at this stage is unfortunate because it can still be a really important precedent to create or a case that must be stamped with the words to the equivalent of “not for public display”
this is my belief and it is written without prejudice to any on going process and is written with all rights reserved by the author
It is by no means comprehensive and it is subject to personal and peer reviews [and awaits release of "transcripts" for same purpose]
I am in a hurry today but will engage this again if you wish, but thanks for your post anyway; by way of iteration it is closing in on the reality of what happened
cheers
Australian: Brother: Phillip-George (c) 1974 All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice
Jason
Said this on May 26th, 2007 at 9:40pm:Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this May 24th
I write as much as anything for one man who has read several posts, a man by the name of Jason. It seems he is waking up to a bigger reality.
Hi Phillip,
Thank you for showing me such kindness, indeed I am becoming aware that many of the stories I’ve been asked to believe by the media & mainstream society seem to be untrue.
I grew up believing that evolution was unquestionably true, and that people who believed in the biblical account of creation were like the “cave men”, stupid, ignorant and if they weren’t extinct they should be.
I am now aware that evolution is no more than a faith based belief, an idea that has never been proven. At best it deserves recognition as a subject to be discussed in Religious Education at school. I’m not going to write what I believe the ‘theory’ is at ‘worst’ as I would be sure to miss something really important off the list. So to put it mildly it is “fruitless & pointless”. (Also “cave men”??? what’s that all about?)
I have also found the whole subject of the 911 conspiracy very interesting. I find it particularly interesting to note that if I ask anybody to describe to me the events that happened on 911, I usually get this answer.
Four planes, Three of which struck; Tower 1, Tower 2 and the Pentagon. The two towers collapsed as did a bit of the Pentagon. The Fourth plane crashed, brought down by the passengers. Osama Bin-Laden did it.
I rarely find anybody who knows about “Building 7”.
Should I be surprised if I then find that those who know about “Building 7”, question the rest of the story? (I guess not).
I look back through history and find that governments (those that hold power) give way to tyranny at some point in time, no matter how good they are. Why should today be any different?
I support (from afar, as I am British) the principals behind the “American Constitution”, i.e. to restrict the power of the American government, that the people might have freedom. As far as the issue of American Tax law is concerned, “Darling” (My guess is female) has already shown me how ill equipped I ‘personally’ am to debate one way or another. I do however make the easy connection between those that make the rules about money and the abject poverty of the third world (these people are the real criminals and should be held to account).
________
If I might now be so bold as to make an observation, you seem to wonder, why is “End Times” here on this blog? It seems to me that everyone who regularly posts to this blog is here because Kent Hovind has affected them in some way. Some people, myself included, are greatly thankful for Kent’s ministry. Other people with other ‘faiths’ seem to despise the message that Kent brings, finding him difficult to ignore there appears to be satisfaction gained in Kent’s incarceration.
It appears to me that “End Times”, is affected positively by Kent and wishes to support him. It also appears to me that you may not agree with some of “End Times” views. I have never found anyone short of ‘Jesus’ that I entirely agree with, yet reading 1 Corinthians 12 & 13 it says….
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
I therefore should love my brothers & sisters in the Lord, we are one body. That means both ‘you’ and “End Times” together (or is Christ divided?).
I (personally) appreciate your contribution to this blog and support for Kent, although I think you may win the hearts & minds of others if the Love of Christ, within you, is expressed more clearly in your writings.
Lots of love
Jason x
Paulus
Said this on May 27th, 2007 at 8:15am:Brother Kent, I understand that all inmates in jail are “innocent” – that’s a sort of jailhouse ethics. At least from what I’ve seen in the movies. So it’s probably ok when you maintain your “innocence” to your fellow inmates.
But when blogging to the outside world, you have a choice. You can either accept the responsibility for your suffering, or deny it and hold God responsible. Do you think you’ve made the right choice here? Why is it that all your praying and all the praying of your devotees here had no effect whatsoever?
Think about it. It’s not too late to accept the responsibility for what you’ve done to your family and to yourself.
Katie
Said this on May 27th, 2007 at 11:11am:To Everyone,
Since so much on this blog is about taxes, I wanted to share an 8 minute video clip of Ron Paul, a Republican Presidential candidate, that says he would eliminate taxes and bring us back to the Republic we are supposed to be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8&eurl=http://blog.lewrockwell.com/ Enjoy. Katie. P.S. Maybe he’d free Hovind if he won…..hmmmm
EndTimes
Said this on May 27th, 2007 at 2:26pm:May 27 Katie
Said this at 11:11am:
“To Everyone,
Since so much on this blog is about taxes, I wanted to share an 8 minute video clip of Ron Paul, a Republican Presidential candidate, that says he would eliminate taxes and bring us back to the Republic we are supposed to be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8&eurl=http://blog.lewrockwell.com/ Enjoy. Katie. P.S. Maybe he’d free Hovind if he won…..hmmmm”
Thank you Katie for the excellent link. May I remind everyone that it is actually Dr. Ron Paul. He does our medical profession quite proud and I am pleased to stand beside him in many of his views. Perhaps we need more medical doctors in public service and less lawyers. I know many doctors that gladly give of themselves and have the courage to stand on principles and do what is right for their patients. Although I am not proud of all of my collegues and their actions which seem to have taken the love of money into account, I have only met a handful of lawyers that sought “justice” without thought of money in their pccket. Interestingly, they were all public defenders devoted to defending the constitutional rights of those who could not afford the high powered and well payed hit men otherwise known as celebrity lawyers. I have known several of them quite well through my practice. In fact, the entire local public defenders office chose me as their internist.
So, among a few are those still dedicated to protecting the constitutional rights of the less fortunate. The most dedicated physicians that I have had the pleasure to work with were members of our armed services which I was able to serve with as well for 9 years. None of our actions were predicated on payment or bonuses. The love of serving and doing what was right for our servicemen was foremost in all of our minds. It was quite a privelage to have grown up in medicine surrounded by many men grounded in high principles of conduct. It is no accident that Dr. Ron Paul likewise had the opportunity to spend time in a military practice and his unique principled stands are a fruit of the medical corp that I also had the honour of being a part of as well. In fact, being an officer in the military means that Dr. Ron Paul took an oath to protect and defend the constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. We have forgotten about all of the domestic enemies of the constitution. Unfortunately, their number grows larger and bolder everyday.
As a physician in the military, I often found myself in the position of protecting soldiers with true medical problems from zealous commanders who diminished the personal care of these soldiers. It was an everpresent duty where a medical doctor Captain outranked even the highest general in a given circumstance when it came to decisions for a given soldier. So his boldness in standing up for that which is right appears to me to be a product of his duties as a military physician and the more power to Dr. Ron Paul for his courage. He is just one more military physician that I can be proud of in enacting the principled values of the military medical corps.
What Dr. Ron Paul has to say has a lot of wisdom, but I am enough of a realist to understand he will never be elected to the highest office in this country. See Psalm 2 for the reasons why this will not happen.
May God bless,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on May 27th, 2007 at 6:05pm:May 26 darling
“Said this at 2:27pm:
EndTimes Said this at 10:24pm May24:
“what has Dr. Hovind stolen?”
Money from everyone else who have to make up the shortfall on the taxes he was supposed to pay. Hi employees are also in the hole for the money Mr. Hovind should have withheld.
“Remember, Caesar does not have authority over God.”
Mr. Hovind is not God.”
My dear darling,
First, I have never stated that Dr. Hovind was or is God. How foolish. But by extension, whoever is doing the work of God is His representative here on earth and thus stealing from God’s representatives is stealing from God. I don’t think that is a very hard concept to grasp. See Malachi 3:8-10. All the funds set aside for God’s work is outside of Caesar’s authority according to the Bible. Now when Caesar does not recognize God’s authority over His works, Caesar then redefines that which he does not have the right to change. God is patient nevertheless and will in His own time and place bring all things back under His authority. Caesar will have a lot of explaining to do on that day. Shall Caesar be allowed to steal that which is set aside for God’s work? Not a wise step to take for God shall require it in the end and that is not a position that I would want to be in.
Secondly, the IRS tax dollars do not end up where most people think they do. Listen to some of Dr. Ron Paul’s statements on the Federal Reserve Banking System and then we can talk about stealing from the American people and who is the real guilty party. You can either choose God’s laws or go with man’s laws that always end in state sponsored tyranny. I will choose to place my trust in my God and my Creator, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Dr. Hovind placed his faith in the laws of God that were once honoured by my government but are not any longer. The Bible makes it quite clear that God and His laws do not change. That which was a sin 2000 years ago is still a sin today. Man does not have authority over that which belongs to God and those that do His work. Dr. Hovind recognized the sovereign nature of God and would not accept Caesar’s authority over the work that he was doing for the Lord. It was not too far away in the history of this country that he would have been commended for this action and not condemned.
As an aside, I am not deluded as so many uninformed commentators would like to believe is anyone that still support Dr. Hovind. I quite understand his principles that he was striving to protect. Yet, at the same time, I am not happy with the tactics used through Glen Stoll and his Remedies at Law that has now placed Dr. Hovind in jeopardy. Nevertheless, I have much more respect for Dr. Hovind not only recognizing the issue of state vs church that Caesar is usurping control unlawfully over according to our own constitution, but also in his own way he is trying to stand up against this deceptive state tyranny done through the IRS tax code.
Tactics aside, it is a stand that all Christian churches in this land should do as well. The proper tactics you say? That unfortunately is still a difficult question to answer but one that should be addressed by all believers in this nation in any case.
It is with great sadness that I contemplate the fact that Dr. Hovind is not likely to find any mercy within this federal criminal justice system but even that is within the providence of God’s control should He choose to intervene. Prayers are answered by God in His own manner and His own timing. Those that have walked with God know this to be true. Those that do not walk with God shall not be convinced. God judges by what was in the heart of the man before him. Stealing of any sort was not the intention in any way for Dr. Hovind’s principled stand against IRS tyranny. What was the price of tea that drove our forefathers to rebellion not too many years ago? Certainly, much less than that which endangers our freedoms today at the hands of the IRS.
In kindness,
EndTimes
DisappointedSandy
Said this on May 27th, 2007 at 9:47pm:Phillip-George,
I’m not claiming to speak prophetically. I’m only asking, as a Christian, for Hovind to be a true Christian witness and own the truth of this situation.
I suppose my challenge to Hovind has little to do with the legal issues involved here. I’m not a lawyer. I’m not a tax-expert.
Instead, I’m looking at the contradictions within Hovind’s and those speaking on his behalf statements and thoughts.
I believe that if this was an issue of ignorance, then that should be stated without any ambiguity. Make it clear that it was a mistake. Yes, I realize that that would be owning guilt and maybe is not “politically” the right thing to do. However, I believe it would be the true right action, and you and others seem to think a defensible position.
I find the claim of being some kind of hero in standing up for tax-rights (or the freedom from tax rights) is inconsistent in light of other claims he and his have made. I feel that he is taking credit for something he did not truly do (or if he did, he is doing poorly by not being willing to accept the consequences of his choices). Is that harsh? Perhaps. Do I believe that there is a sin in there somewhere? Yes, but we are all sinners.
Do I believe that there is the possibility that perhaps there was an intentional “stealing” involved? Maybe, though paying people under the table doesn’t seem to me to necessarily be about personal greed. I’m not trying to claim that he was trying to horde money for himself.
I’m merely pointing out that there are inconsitences which make the “taking a stand” claim doubtful.
I have to admit, I do have a problem with the ignorance argument, because I know of several para-church ministries which are fully aware that while they do not have to pay business tax on income received, do know that they must withhold payroll taxes on non-ordained staff. However, I can see how it could be confusing.
I guess, what I find offensive is the idea of making what was probably a mistake into a noble act.
JR Turner
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 12:15am:Could this be the KEY that sets Kent Hovind free?
http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/get_archive.php?hn=Kennedy&yr=07
download hour 2 of the Sunday May 27, 2007 mp3 and listen.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 3:12am:Dear Jason,
Jesus seems to say that faith in Him would have all but vanished from the face of the Earth before His complete triumphal return.
Press in an Love Him with your whole heart, whole soul and all that is within you.
He is Truth. One of the most disarming things you can ever say from your mouth is, “Is it true”?
People melt or lower their eyes. Their brain might be telling them one thing but their heart really is telling them another.
[even the testimony of character and personality trait transferes with organ donation makes for a fascinating story - but that is another too distant an aside]
Disinformation people are good at what they do. But do they love their work? Are they at “peace and contentment” in the Holy
Spirit.
Jesus will smash that Daniel image of a man.
May God, Lift up His Countenance Upon you and be gracious unto you. Now and forever. Amen.
this might be my last post here. The standard is too low and I don’t want to give any further imprimatur. To persist beyond a certain point is to lend credibility where there is none.
God Bless You in Jesus Name, Brother Jason.
Seek Him out in all your ways always. God loves you.
praybird
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 4:02am:I want to comment on some statments made in these blogs. First about Vaccinations. Vaccinations is not a conspiracy to kill people. First of all small pox was almost irradicated because of vaccine. Also diptheria, typhoid, whooping cough, mumps, measles, and tetenus. Whooping cough is making a come back because people are not taking their children to get vaccinated. Also diptheria. Does anyone realize the dangers in not having a tetenus shot??? All of these diseases are fatal. And millions of humans have been spared these diseases because of immunizations. Please don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. And remember polio?? I had a friend years ago before the vaccine was put out that got polio and she was crippled all her life. How many millions have been protected because of polio? I am greatly concerned that people are saying that Vaccinations are dangerous. There are some side affects yes, because the human body is very complicated but millions of peoples lives have been saved because of these vaccines.
Now to Chemtrails. There is no conspiracy to put chemicals in the air to kill humans. This simply is not true. You can research this on the net. There is no conspiracy on this.
Next is Canola Oil. Personally I use corn oil, and butter. Olive oil is good too. Those are probably the safest. But there is no conspiracy to use Canola Oil to kill people. http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=102049&catId=100228&tid=100008&p=1 This is a good explanation of canola oil. Just to show you how things can be taken and miscued.
Okay Cancer, That one I will agree with, they are not doing enough to educate the public. Cancer treatment is big business. I have read where a Doctor was banned from the United States because he was giving his Patients Vitamins therapy and Vitamin C to help them and it was working. Vitamin C reduces tumors. There is a book out called Vitamin C against cancer. I am doing more research on this. Nutrition does play a big role in fighting cancers. And yes I agree about the water. Filtered and purified water is imparative now. We buy bottled water I hope to in the near future get a steam distiller to purify water. I had a friend who drank her own steam distilled water and she was 90 years old with no diseases. If I have this right there are safer ways to purify the public waters systems that are more inexpensive.
Many people in the United States are living to hundred years or more, simply unheard of many years ago.
Smoking plays a big role in cancer.
Last thing is abortion. I was a child when those laws were passed. It has destroyed more lives including the unborn. It is beyond a travesty. The bible says to train up a child in the way he should go, teach him it is morally wrong to be permissive with their body. That their body is the temple of the Most High God. That they should respect themselves. That it is a sin to fornicate and commit adultry. Teach them to obstain from sexual immorality. If more people followed this, it would be the safest way. There would be no abortions, women wouldn’t be getting pregnant unless they really wanted the children. My heart grieves when I read and hear of teenagers having promiscuis sex, having no honor or self respect. They lose the Joy of dating to get to know someone honorably. Why do you think many of our parents and grandparents had marriages that lasted 50 years, because they honored and respected one another and kept that committment to each other in the fear of God.
I felt it was very important to write this. Dr. Hovind taught much of this on his tapes, especially about the children. He is greatly concerned about our children. That is why he quit teaching and went on the road to teach about the dangers of evolutionary teaching. He wasn’t attacking people. He was speaking the truth warning people to turn to the Lord. Thank you Dr. Hovind for your teachings. The fact that the educators haven’t taken the lies out of the textbooks about evolution shows how willingly ignorant they choose to stay in. Like Dr. Hovind said willingly ignorant that means dumb on purpose. Psalm 19:7-10 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul, the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean enduring forever, the judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
We must continue to study to show ourselves approved. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Truth must never be comprimised. Gods Word is Truth
We continue to stand with our Christian Friends the Hovinds and will continue to pray until this is resolved. We pray for strength, comfort, and wisdom. God bless from Brenda and Don
praybird
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 4:47am:There has also been much contraversy about 9-11 and a cover up conspiracy. Also it was mentioned on here about building-7 Here is an official document explaining building-7 http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html
9-11 was a terrorist act. There are so many conspiracy theories out there it is important to research.
I respect the fact that this is a blog to support and pray for the Hovinds. But it is important that when something is posted that we try to let truth prevail. This is what blessed me the most about Dr. Hovind is that he tried so much to teach truth, there may have been a couple of mistakes but on the whole This man blessed us so much with his teachings. God bless you and your family Dr. Hovind. You blessed us more than you will ever know. Thank you from Don and Brenda
robtzfamily
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 7:30am:Dear Brother Hovind (and family),
We continue to pray for you daily.
With lots of love in Christ,
The Roberts family
To: End Times,
– keep up the good work!
fmargulis
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 12:03pm:Numerous and unpredictable transfers are usually refered to as “diesel therapy” within the prison system. Based on Kent’s situation, this seems strange and unwarranted. It appeared he should easily have been sentenced to a minimum security facility or camp (less than minimum security). I know … I’ve been there as an inmate. Also, the way the court has treated his wife, Jo, is unusual. Something extraordinary is going on here. To Kent and family: continue to trust our excellent and good heavenly Father. The things you will learn during this ’season’ will be invaluable, preparing you for a greater ministry than you can imagine. No one, absolutely no one and nothing operates outside of the will of God. It would be a mistake to believe that our unjust legal system or Kent’s detractors are independent agents. As you know, HOW we deal with adversity is the essential question. God Himself is good, sovereign, and just. Continue to trust HIM. You are being refined for a purpose by a good and all-wise God. May the LORD Jesus Christ, our Savior, bless you.
darling
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 2:32pm:EndTimes said this at 6:05pm May27:
“First, I have never stated that Dr. Hovind was or is God. How foolish. But by extension, whoever is doing the work of God is His representative here on earth and thus stealing from God’s representatives is stealing from God.”
Well then I’ll just need some kind of notarized document from God to the effect that Mr. Hovind is indeed His authorized representative here on Earth. Otherwise, what’s to stop any old scoundral from cloaking themselves in religion to avoid obeying the law?
Surely you wouldn’t want Caesar deciding who is and who is not doing the work of God?
Millerfamily6
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 4:06pm:Brother Danny (Ekkman),
So truthfully spoken. Thank you for posting that info:0)
God bless the Hovinds and all the brothers and sisters in Christ who gather here to exhort and edify one another. We truly are living in those perilous last days. Come Lord Jesus!
You’re continually on my heart and in my prayers Brother Kent and Sister Jo.
In His Love,
Michele Miller
Millerfamily6
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 4:13pm:Katie
Said this at 11:11am:
To Everyone,
Since so much on this blog is about taxes, I wanted to share an 8 minute video clip of Ron Paul, a Republican Presidential candidate, that says he would eliminate taxes and bring us back to the Republic we are supposed to be. P.S. Maybe he’d free Hovind if he won…..hmmmm
_____________________________________________________________________
Amen Katie! Spread the word regarding Mr. Ron Paul to all your family and friends; I have, too!:0)
Ekkman
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 4:22pm:praybird
Said this at 4:47am:
——————————————————————————–
There has also been much contraversy about 9-11 and a cover up conspiracy. Also it was mentioned on here about building-7 Here is an official document explaining building-7 http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html
9-11 was a terrorist act. There are so many conspiracy theories out there it is important to research.
Praybird,
Are you saying that you did your research by going to a government site that tells us that the government didn’t do it or weren’t behind it. That would be like someone going to my site and I tell them that I am a cool guy. So he tells everyone that I am a cool guy because he went to my site to find it out.
Here is one definition for a conspiracy–”An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.” So wouldn’t you agree what Satan was the author of conspiracies when he was talking to Eve. We have had conspiracies ever since. Satan is working in in governments all over the world.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
It seems to me that you are saying or at least implying that our government is “above” conspiracies. As I said before, “Any government that will allow the killing of innocent babies in the womb of their mothers will do anything.” Case closed!
ekklesia@ekkcom.net
Ekkman
Said this on May 28th, 2007 at 7:17pm:praybird
Said this at 4:02am:
——————————————————————————–
“Last thing is abortion. I was a child when those laws were passed. It has destroyed more lives including the unborn. It is beyond a travesty. The bible says to train up a child in the way he should go, teach him it is morally wrong to be permissive with their body. That their body is the temple of the Most High God. That they should respect themselves. That it is a sin to fornicate and commit adultry. Teach them to obstain from sexual immorality. If more people followed this, it would be the safest way. There would be no abortions, women wouldn’t be getting pregnant unless they really wanted the children. My heart grieves when I read and hear of teenagers having promiscuis sex, having no honor or self respect. They lose the Joy of dating to get to know someone honorably. Why do you think many of our parents and grandparents had marriages that lasted 50 years, because they honored and respected one another and kept that committment to each other in the fear of God.”
Praybird,
I somehow missed the above. Anyway, doing a word game with the name you have chosen. I will say that prayer is super important but we must not leave out study. We are also commanded to study not only the word of God but I believe that God will hold us responsible for other forms of study such as evolution as we see on this site or deven study conspiracies if needed and many other things. We are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
Now abortion. I picketed Planned Parenthood for years and have studied abortion indepth. I agree that people should stay away from promiscius sex and have honor but do you honestly think that abortions would stop if we just had sex within marriage with our mates. There are many, many wives who have abortions. They need new life in the Lord Jesus Christ and need to walk in obedience to his word and then they won’t have an abortions.
There are many husbands who are still crying, still hurting, still dealing with the effects of an abortion that their wives has had in spite of their pleading for them not to have one.
ekklesia@ekkcom.net
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 1:45am:to Paul Abramson, co-moderator,
this is “intended” for your eyes only!! – not for general readership, [...EDITED... okay, I have read and then excised your comments. P.A. ]
God Bless You. All Glory to Jesus.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Dear Phillip-George, to my knowledge no blog to date can worthily claim to be the "end all be all" of truth. Persons enter and leave conversations; questions and charges go answered; and sometimes participants contradict themselves.
I try to moderate some of the (as I perceive it) meanness that goes along with long distance (read as: limited perceived personal responsibility) postings. Anyone can portray himself or herself as anyone. For all I know you are actually from New Zealand and you are copyright 1972 (instead of 1974) in name designation.
You seem to have a decidedly church-oriented outlook. It is one that, I feel, does not always translate well to skeptics. You place authority in the Word. They deride such a foundation. Is "truth" based on the best human consensus at the time, or upon an external unchanging standard? The two worldviews are in direct conflict. You and I know that Christ's Resurrection happened as a historical event without question. But those who reject the Gospel message necessarily take issue with this fact.
Our opponents in this "search for truth" are not always consistent in their outlook or words. But then, neither are some believers. "God is good." Oh yeah, they counter, then why all the badness in the world? He is in total control? Then where did evil come from, if He did not create it? He is omnipotent? Then didn't He see what the Serpent was going to do in the Garden of Eden?
Persecution may be coming soon. Freedom of speech is getting ratcheted down. (Have they passed the "hate crimes" (i.e. anti-free-speech) laws in Australia yet?) Some Christians in Canada have been arrested and convicted for telling the truth, as that is now against the law there.
I try to moderate the meanness down. The skeptics have taunted me personally on these pages. Maybe I expect it, but it does not particularly bother me. I have spoken to atheist groups before. A few of them hated what I represented to them. Okay. Sorry. But the truth is the truth and it must be spoken. Do you recall when the Pharisees and later Roman soldiers taunted Jesus? See Matthew 26:68 "Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?" They were physically hitting Him and he took it with silence.
One of Dr. Hovind's strategies with skeptics is to slow down the array of attacks and contentions. He repeatedly specifies, "One question at a time." He then tackles their objections one at a time. After answering one charge, he then is ready for their next objection.
When the Apostle Paul spoke on Mars Hill (Acts 17:22-34) note his strategy. He did not quote Scripture to them. They did not recognize its authority. Such pearls will be trampled upon. Don't do it. He appealed to their intellects and even quoted a couple of their Greek poets in his assertions. We should do the same. Many will still disbelieve, but a few may be persuaded if we conduct ourselves and put forth assertions with honesty and in Christian love. P.A. ]
Samphire
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 3:16am:Phillip-George said “this might be my last post here.
Praise be. Prayer does work.
The standard is too low and I don’t want to give any further imprimatur.
After you have left I think you will find that it will return to its previous higher level.
To persist beyond a certain point is to lend credibility where there is none.”
You have lent nothing but unintelligible nonsense. Your evening fairground job sparring with a Boxing Kangaroo seems to have done you a lot of damage. All your rights may have been reserved but your lefts were equally ineffective.
Sade Tennyson
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 7:41am:Beloved Brother Kent Hovind, Sister Jo & Eric
Jesus will never forget you & He will see you & the rest of the family & the CSE family through.
You’re in my prayers often.
The joy of our Lord Jesus will remian your strength.
Sade Tennyson
Samphire
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 10:19am:Hi, Endtimes,
Moving Darling’s last post along, at what point does God’s money again become Mammon’s? Hovind pays wages to his “missionaries” who then buy food with it at the local supermarket. The supermarket employs shelf-stackers one of whom is a drug addict. He uses part of his wages to buy cocaine indirectly from a Columbian drug baron etc etc at which point I doubt that you would claim the money is still God’s. So at what point does your argument break down?
Furthermore, against wiser counsel, I may purchase a set of creation non-science dvds from CSE because I wish to study them to write a lengthy rebuttal. Is the money I pay KH’s organisation God’s? If so, at what point did the transformation happen?
You have railed above at homosexuality because, in your view, it is a sin. If someone sends a contribution to the Westboro Baptish Church to support Freaky Fred’s wonderful Godly campaign against faggots and G.I. funerals does that money, too, become sanctified somehow?
I admit that I am more comfortable with practicalities than concepts.
Kind regards
Samphire
EndTimes
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 12:19pm:May 28 darling
Said this at 2:32pm:
EndTimes said this at 6:05pm May27:
“First, I have never stated that Dr. Hovind was or is God. How foolish. But by extension, whoever is doing the work of God is His representative here on earth and thus stealing from God’s representatives is stealing from God.”
1) “Well then I’ll just need some kind of notarized document from God to the effect that Mr. Hovind is indeed His authorized representative here on Earth. Otherwise, what’s to stop any old scoundral from cloaking themselves in religion to avoid obeying the law?”
My dear darling,
You continually strain at gnats and swallow camels. The simple fact of the people of Caesar and the people of God is quite easy to understand. Why do you not understand something that is quite basic? If Dr. Hovind is using the creation message to preach the gospel of Christ, then he works for God as is Dr. Hovind’s testimony. Since our government now displays a blatant disregard for the people of this country, calling our government Caesar is likewise analogous. The reference for this goes to the oft repeated remark of Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto God that which is God’s that is quoted over and over on this blog.
Hmmm, there are many “religions” out there in this nation doing as they please at this very time taking advantage of the “system.” This has really nothing to do with the issue of the comments I made on Dr. Hovind’s situation since I have not heard anyone question the basic nature of his beliefs. They are quite transparent. He is a preacher of God’s (i.e. the Bible’s) message of eternal salvation through the use of the creation/evolution debate. Many people have called Dr. Hovind a scoundrel for trying but not succeeding in keeping his ministry for God under the authority of God and not under the authority of the IRS/”Caesar” and perhaps that is what you are implying now as well.
What of the first amendment rights provided by our forefathers? I’m sorry, but I thought the purpose of those sworn to protect the constitution is an important principle for lawyers to live by. I guess by your remarks, governmental control is more important than religious freedom. Well, you will probably fit into the “system” quite well since Caesar is now more important than God in this country as well.
2) Surely you wouldn’t want Caesar deciding who is and who is not doing the work of God?
Oh, we finally have come to a common conclusion on not wanting the government deciding what is the “work of God” and what is not. This comment, by the way, is in contradiction to your comment above. (If Caesar doesn’t control the situation, then how shall he “stop any old scoundral from cloaking themselves in religion to avoid obeying the law?” Make up your mind, do you want control or no control? Please try not to be contradictory in the same paragraph.)
No, the constitution of this United States of America set up a government that left the issue of religion to religion. Unfortunately, it appears that you have been sleeping for the last several months on the discussion of 501(c)(3), church incorporation and “taxing God” discussed ad nauseum on this site. They do decide that very issue on a daily basis and it is completely against the original intentions of those that granted us the constitution and the bill of rights!! You have quite lost me on these comments since that is the entirety of Dr. Hovind’s “defense” of these charges against him. His contention is that the government has no authority over his ministry and I agree from the Scriptures and from the constitution that Dr. Hovind is correct on this crucial issue, yet chose his tactics poorly for which he is now suffering.
So when did Caesar get the authority to “tax God.” (I would really like to see the transcripts of the Dole Finance hearing in 1983) That authority did not come from God, so Caesar is now greatly indebted to God for his actions against God since January 1, 1984. If you don’t understand the basic premise of this debate after 6 months then how can you go forth with such bold comments and refutations as is your habit?
In kindness,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 12:32pm:My dear Samphire,
If someone sends money to “support Freaky Fred’s wonderful Godly campaign against [EDITED ... "homosexuals"] and G.I. funerals” they are not doing the will of God who tells us to preach the gospel to all creatures. The works of this man do not line up with Scripture and thus we know it is not of God. That is how my religion works, under the authority of God. That is how you can tell what is of God and what is not of God. Quite simple.
Again, you are in bed with darling on this issue of the people of God and the people of Caesar. I believe everyone here on this blog except you and darling understand the simple analogy made quite readily.
Do you have any legitimate discussions today or will we fall into more dull and contentious issues of no value to anyone?
In kindness,
EndTimes
joshtriangle
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 3:51pm:Good grief a scan…
[...EDITED...]
Peace.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Why the series of short "hit messages" against main participants of this blog? Are you really that far above all of us? Your opinions, if educated, are welcome. Your uneducated cheap meanness is not. Don't seek to pull others down with unsophisticated verbal savagery. Any child can do that. Go elsewhere if that is how you get your jollies. P.A. ]
Judy Bryan
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 5:18pm:Hello Mr. Hovind,
I am frustrated about some things. When I read about what happened to you and your wife on penaltyprotester.com by Lindsey, I was speechless when I read about David Gibbs. I had a strange feeling about him for some reason and I wrote his name down because my pastor has dealings with the Christian Law Association. My pastor has brought up your name in example several times of people that have gone to prison for what they believed in. Then later he said he had talked with David Gibbs and pastor was going to set up a time that he could speak to the congregation. I felt funny about this because of the article on your trial. I was inwardly afraid that David Gibbs may have done something underhanded and may lead my pastor in the wrong direction. I wrote down the CSEblogs address as well as penaltyprotesters to give my pastor for him to look at for himself. I had previously given this information to our business man that does all tax things for our church and he seemed happy to have a place to go to check on it. When pastor told us about wanting to set up a time for D.G. to come,I made a point of talking to him about what he knew about you. Sadly, he responded that David Gibbs had said you were guilty and your wife was going to prison as well because you withheld paying taxes. I kept trying to tell him what I had read as he slowly inched away from me toward someone else he wanted to talk to but when I said that you had a blog page that we could read he kind of poo-pooed blog pages and told me it would be better to read the trial transcipts which I told him I had. He said he didn’t know and walked away with me still holding the paper I had written the site information on. I am fearful of this attitude and was sick inside on our drive home. I had to pray and ask God to not allow me to have harsh feelings toward my pastor because my husband and I absolutely adore him and our church that we have only been attending for 3 years. I felt dismissed by him and Satan kept telling me it was because I am a woman and know nothing. So I prayed some more and the next time I saw pastor I didn’t feel that way anymore. I am so thankful that God is using you to add to Heavens roll. Thanks for keeping us updated and I will continue to pray that in the end God will show everyone why He did this. Your friend, Judy Bryan
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 6:44pm:I said, [may 25, 8.34 pm], “title 26, so you say, “imposes a tax upon every individual”.”
“darling” [may 26, 2.27 pm] said, quote:
I never said that.
“darling” [may 24, 6.54 am] said, quote:
Once last time:
Title 26 imposes taxes upon every individual.
unquote.
JRTurner, “darling” is the person-thing who wanted you to apologize for miss quoting a transcript. Given the above performance you shouldn’t worry at all about his smear “bad bad ”
Samphire [may 29], if the above does not bother you that is all your readers need to know about you. That is the type of man you are.
FuManChu, likewise, if the above does not bother you that is all your readers need to know about you.
When Law Student FuManChu said that all a contract consists of is “Offer, Acceptance, and Valuable Consideration”. One would have thought that a lawyer or law student would want to chime in for their readers to know more ………
What about d.full disclosure.
What about e. being of a lawful age.
What about f. lawful intent.
What about g. a method to remedy or arbitrate over any perceived breach of the contract as having to be decided on aforehand as a requisite to the contract. ie. giving the contract a flag to fly under; or jurisdiction to be in.
Count them, I believe the number comes to 7 – they are written up in different order and using different words in many different places but I think you will find the substance repeats itself, ad nauseam, vitually universally.
The point is many of the posters are not here to “give away” information per se. “darling” has said that he would sell information for $500. If he is prepared to sell information what is the stuff he is giving away here??
Samphire, quote, “lent nothing but unintelligible nonsense”. Unquote, Samphire, if I have lent you anything I trust in time, you shall return it, if not to me directly, then to others whom indulge you the time of day.
Jason, this is why I have to move on. Staying in certain conversations devalues speech.
JR Turner, I haven’t seen any of the tax or other videos you talk about but I will go away and look at them at some stage. If “darling” had have been able to cite references worth reading I wouldn’t have bothered, but now, I most certainly intend to look at your material. “darling” has given you a great deal of credibility. Infact he has virtually proven your earlier assertion.
DissappointedSandy,
“para” means beside, alongside of, next to, adjacent to, against, outside of.
“para-church” ???
“non ordained”. Says who?? as defined by whom/ where?? Believers are a royal priest hood, a holy nation, a chosen generation. Every believer is a priest and Brother Kent’s mission is straight evangelism. People helping out in any way are supporting an evangelistic endeavour. It couldn’t be plainer. Unfortunately someone has to put a name of some description on legal title documents and this can create confusion.
DissappintedSandy, I could pull apart things “darling” has cited. But, it is you and others like you who need to personally dig deep and discover your own wells.
Just a couple of last points, and I really hope I can leave off, as there are other seas to trawl;
All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.
Thomas Jefferson
I could essay a thousand unsaid points but here is one target issue.
the U.S. supreme court has nine permanent sitting Judges. Even if you believe in paid permanent tenure Judges the number is still short of a biblical or Hebraic law minyan. Judges do not make laws and while their opinions can be useful it is a sui juris jury who determine the fair and lawful application of law. Thomas Jefferson’s statement here is useless unless there is a mechanism for a Jury to sit to determine a matter in a competent and fully open way. Juries that don’t understand their powers and respondents who don’t know how to answer to scurrilous charges mean that a theoretical 51 percent could make life for a theoretical 49 percent unbearable.
without moral authority there is no authority – only despotism.
all law either comes from God or man.
that is the ultimate line in the sand. Where do you draw it?
[I hope really hope I can leave this soon - because others can bring skills to this to take up the baton and run with it. One of the names of God in Hebrew is "The Standard" - and there is no higher]
I don’t want have to keep at this over nit picking trivia.
all Glory to Jesus, King of Kings. Saviour. [fmargulis - you spoke well I believe, something extraordinary is going on ...]
jwalker
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 10:15pm:This site is a great source of encouragement to those who support Dr. Hovind’s and his ministries. I’m just surprise that the management allows so many negative comments which is either productive or in anyway encouraging. The attacks are low in caliber, unfair and deceptive.I’m not one to run away from a challenge and I’m not suggesting the Christians on this site should but I hope that the webmaster could screen the comments to prevent further insults and increase the hardship to the namesake and family and ministry of Dr. Hovind. Let the critics set up their own medium elsewhere to preach to their own flock. We love unbelievers and critics but this isn’t a proper venue for addressing the same types of nonsensical arguement and claims which we (Bible Believing Christians) have repeatedly refuted.
-jwalker
Teno
Said this on May 29th, 2007 at 10:32pm:Calladus said: I’ve seen it said … that you are being tested as Job was tested. I think the truth should be obvious… Perhaps, at some point in your life, you felt the calling to evangelize the incarcerated, but instead you ignored it and did your own will.
Calladus YOU have certainly made Bro. Hovind into a ‘Job’ by playing the role of his “miserable comforters” who had all kinds of suggestions for Job as to why he was in his state (and they were all wrong and out of ignorance).
If those who likened Bro. Hovind’s situation to Job were wrong before, they are right now, thanks to Calladus.
Job 16:1-3 Then Job answered and said, I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are ye all. Shall vain words have an end? or what emboldeneth thee that thou answerest?
Paulus
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 3:49am:Some seem to defend embezzling of tax money with the argument that the money is God’s. However, all money is God’s since God created everything. So, with this argument anyone were allowed to steal money from the community.
Where did you get the idea that God wanted Kent to keep the tax money for himself?
Instead of backing up his sin, we all should persuade him to repent and accept his responsibility.
Samphire
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 8:42am:Hi Endtimes,
You have quite lost me on these comments since that is the entirety of Dr. Hovind’s “defense” of these charges against him.
You seem to have been listening to a different KH to the one I heard stating “show me the tax and I will pay it”. Those are not the words of someone who is claiming “Because I am a church minister it is not for government to tax the profits I make from my business activities”.
As Darling has pointed out on many occasions, KH was not indicted for non-payment of 501(c)(3) tax but for non-payment of employer’s and employees’ contributions. He knew very well that employees’ wages are taxable: that is why he claimed that they were not employees but “missionaries” trusting naively that a simple change of name would get around the problem. I suspect that it is also one of the reasons why his defense counsel did not want him to give evidence; the prosecuting attorney would have had a field-day in cross-examination.
As I understand it, wages do not form part of of the 501 regime so why do you constantly imply that they do?
I am well aware that to give money to Freaky Fred would not be a good thing; that is why I gave the example. But you have ignored the question – at what point in a series of transactions (such as I gave) does God’s untaxable money revert to being mammon’s and taxable?
Lastly, in what way do your beliefs differ from those of Fred? You both believe that homosexual acts are sinful, do you not?
Kind regards
Samphire
darling
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 9:16am:Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 said this at 6:44pm May29:
Well spotted, sir. I heartily apologize that my statements reiterating a point of logic were taken as statements of law. I thought I was clear by my earlier statements in that thread that Title 26 relates specifically to taxable income. Although it has no bearing upon my point, feel free to read my earlier post this way:
Title 26 imposes taxes upon the taxable income of every individual.
US Citizens are individuals, by the ordinary meaning of the word.
Therefore, Title 26 imposes taxes upon the taxable income of US Citizens.
With that out of the way, my main point still stands:
I never said you were exempt from Title 26.
You’re not exempt from Title 26.
“JRTurner, “darling” is the person-thing who wanted you to apologize for miss quoting a transcript. Given the above performance you shouldn’t worry at all about his smear “bad bad ””
On the contrary, I have the decency to address such issues.
JRTurner simply posts and runs away.
I’ll leave it to the reader to decide who is the most honorable.
“The point is many of the posters are not here to “give away” information per se. “darling” has said that he would sell information for $500.”
I believe I said: I’ll take “due process” for $500, Alex.
As the adage goes, if you have to explain the joke, you’re in Jeapordy.
“If “darling” had have been able to cite references worth reading…”
If you don’t think Supreme Court opinions aren’t worth reading then I really can’t help you…
darling
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 9:31am:EndTimes said this at 12:19pm May29:
“If Dr. Hovind is using the creation message to preach the gospel of Christ, then he works for God as is Dr. Hovind’s testimony.”
Therefore, to continue with the recent example, if Fred Phelps is using the anti-homosexual message to preach the gospel of Christ, then he works for God, as is Fred Phelps’ testimony.
But you said “[t]he works of [Fred Phelps] do not line up with Scripture and thus we know it is not of God.” Mr. Phelps is certainly as sincere in his beliefs as Mr. Hovind, even if those beliefs are wrong.
So that implies someone has to make that distinction of who is and who isn’t really working for God?
Who decides? And how?
“Many people have called Dr. Hovind a scoundrel . . . perhaps that is what you are implying now as well.”
I’m not making judgment on whether Mr. Hovind is of God or not. Some Christians support him. Some Christians don’t.
If Mr. Hovind should be ‘tax free’ what’s to stop someone with decidedly impure intentions from becoming ‘tax free’? Again, who decides?
“If Caesar doesn’t control the situation, then how shall he “stop any old scoundral from cloaking themselves in religion to avoid obeying the law?””
How about “not making judgments on who is or is not really ‘working for God’” and treat everybody equally?
“Make up your mind, do you want control or no control?”
Caesar should “control” all non-profits equally, and not have to “control” whether people are really working for God or not.
“I would really like to see the transcripts of the Dole Finance hearing in 1983″
Alas, the only way I have found to obtain those involves the investment of time and money, both of which are at a premium for me at the moment. Your local law library might be your best bet.
Michael Deas
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 9:32am:REMEMBER (and pray for the families of) those victims of corrupt leadership who have been forced to war by men motivated by selfish greed. Support a movement to bring the spirit of David to national leadership. When David had a beef with an evil neighbor — he went to war HIMSELF. Only a coward sends an 18-year old innocent to do battle for oil, or for any private cause. Bless you Brother Hovind and your family and staff. I continue to work for our freedom and yours.
In the service of our Lord
Michael Deas
praybird
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 10:00am:Didn’t Dr. Hovind say in one of his posts that he would in the future explain himself that he wasn’t at liberty to talk about it yet??? And also who is david gibbs? Isn’t this blog set up to support and pray for the Hovinds? He did say he would explain himself in the near future. I don’t think anyone is blindly following Bro. Kent. I am sure as the appeals process is going through, he will be able to communicate and explain. We love and support our precious family in the Lord. God bless from Brenda and Don
FuManchu
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 10:10am:Philip-George (£8.99 plus p&p):
“When Law Student FuManChu said that all a contract consists of is “Offer, Acceptance, and Valuable Consideration”. One would have thought that a lawyer or law student would want to chime in for their readers to know more…”
A contract can consist of as many elements as the parties, and the government, can think of. But those three are the essential elements to a contract.
“What about d.full disclosure.”
Unnecessary unless the parties want it.
“What about e. being of a lawful age.”
Comes under ‘Offer’ and ‘Acceptance’ – obviously enough you can’t make or accept a contractual offer where it is unlawful to do so.
“What about f. lawful intent.”
Comes under ‘Offer’ and ‘Acceptance’ – obviously enough you can’t make or accept a contractual offer without intent.
“What about g. a method to remedy or arbitrate over any perceived breach of the contract as having to be decided on aforehand as a requisite to the contract. ie. giving the contract a flag to fly under; or jurisdiction to be in.”
You can include a clause to that effect, but you don’t need one. It can be interpreted in later if necessary. If I make a contract in England with a fellow Englishman, it doesn’t take a genius to work out which country’s law applies, and whose courts deal with it.
“Count them, I believe the number comes to 7 – they are written up in different order and using different words in many different places but I think you will find the substance repeats itself, ad nauseam, vitually universally.”
Repeating oneself ad nauseam is certainly something you’d be familiar with. Go, and take JURIDICAL STRAMINEUS with you.
mdorrough
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 10:39am:Paul – Martha here again. I see the Bureau of Prisons website now has Dr. Hovind listed in Edgefield, SC.
Samphire
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 11:12am:Hi Jwalker,
You said “but this isn’t a proper venue for addressing the same types of nonsensical arguement and claims which we (Bible Believing Christians) have repeatedly refuted.”
Can you give us a couple of examples?
Samphire
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 12:16pm:Hi Phillip-George,
Samphire [may 29], if the above does not bother you that is all your readers need to know about you. That is the type of man you are.
Why should it bother me? I fully understand what Darling writes and can find no material fault with it. OK, he misquoted his original quote of May 17th but anybody who had followed the bickering as you have done would understand what he meant. There is a great and obvious difference between “imposing a tax on every individual” and “imposing a tax on the taxable income of every individual” and I don’t believe for one moment that you were not aware of his typo being such.
I would add for those who find it difficult to understand simple rational explanations that “taxable income” as defined under the US legislation does not mean that all individuals throughout the world with an income owe tax to the IRS as your questions seem to imply. I assume that you, P-G, are an Australian citizen living in Australia and have no income outside of Australia. Consequently, you do not have any taxable income as defined by Title 26 such that you are liable to pay US taxes. However, ignoring such niceties as being a diplomat or double taxation issues, if you are an Australian citizen resident in the US and earning an income in excess of the various US allowances then you would be liable to pay US taxes. Surely, you don’t find that difficult to understand?
Brother Kent had and has a really excellent case to present but the whole thing was totally botched .
I think I would have flown over and paid to watch you conducting the defence. To be fair, though, I wouldn’t have wished such an inevitable car-crash on Kent: whatever his shortcomings, he is in enough trouble as it is.
Ben
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 4:17pm:Dear Brother Hovind! Thank you sooooo much for what you have done in your stand on Taxes. Your courage on your stand, to stand for what is right no mater what corrupt officials try to tell you has given me the courage to stand for Jesus Christ in a non-chrsitian college. I have had to appeal many things, including facing college heads who told me because I was a christian I desearve to be persecuted. Because of your stand, I have had the courage to stay strong and will hopefully be leaving the for missionary field soon!
God bless and give you the strength.
Ben
JR Turner
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 4:34pm:Listen to this 4 minute talk then send it to your children and grandchildren.
http://www.devvy.net/audio/daily_dose_taxes.html
Why an Income Tax is Not Necessary to Fund the U.S. Government
http://www.devvy.com/notax.html
Kent and Jo Hovind are INNOCENT!!! The FRAUD continues!!!
EndTimes
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 4:52pm:It is with great consternation that we address the same issues over and over again. But lest I be accused of not answering because I have no answer, I will place a summary that I can copy and paste every time the same issue comes up again in the future.
Our country at its onset chose to honour the principle of religious freedom. That meant that religious issues were decided by the respective religions without governmental interference. It further noted that the finances of these religious organizations were outside of governmental control or taxation because the government and “God” were in separate spheres of authority. They further decided to not use tax subsidies to support any religion here in America and thereby establish a “state church.” The overwhelming majority of the population would today be categorized as fundamentalist Christians.
Thus, until Lyndon Johnson established 501(c)(3) tax exempt status for “nonprofits” there was not any taxation of the Christian churches which I will now term as the people of God and in short, simply “God.” This is in turn the implied usage in conjunction with the render unto Caesar issues so often discussed here on this blog.
Then in 1983, under the leadership of Senator Dole, they enacted direct taxation against religious institutions in this country in a manner that I and many others believe abrogated the constitutional protections of the First Amendment unlawfully. Prior to January 1, 1984, no church was required to be a tax collector for the IRS. I have already commented previously how ridiculous it is to make a church founded by Jesus Christ a tax collector. Thus, all the charges against Dr. Hovind in 2006 would not have been a crime in any manner in 1983. So where did Caesar get the Authority to tax God?
Nevertheless, the “law” of the land since 1-1-84 requires compliance with such. In addition, in meeting the requirements of this law, the submitting organization must agree that all religions are the same and comply with the “tolerance” laws also enacted in this land. There are many, including myself that defend the Bible on being the only truth based on my Saviour’s teachings. Thus, submitting to the laws of America and acknowledging that Caesar is sovereign over God is against our faith. This is the basic truth that lead Dr. Hovind to his actions for which he is now incarcerated. This is the basic truth that millions of Christians died under secular and then religious Rome. This is the basic truth that the world cannot accept and the reason for persecution against all those who have died in Christ in the last 2000 years.
I do not support any tax protestor movements and I would implore those on this blog to walk circumspectly and not support proven acts that will lead to disaster in your life. I especially deplore the travesty taken place against those harmed by Glen Stoll.
Unfortunately, since America is becoming more and more like Sodom, why should we any longer expect God’s hand of protection over us in this nation? (I am sorry, but homosexuality is just one of a long list of sins quite readily defined by the Bible, all of which will likewise send you to the fires of hell by the choice of those that commit such sins if you do not repent. Further we know them by their “fruits.” See Galatians chapter 5 if you want to learn how to tell those truly doing the work of Christ or those that are workers of iniquity. This is defined by the Bible alone and is readily understood. If you make up your own laws and justifications outside of the Bible, you are not doing the work of God. Pretty simple to understand I would hope.)
Once again, aside from the tactics supplied by Glen Stoll, Dr. Hovind has sound and lawful arguments on his behalf. His contention is that the government no longer honours the religious freedoms “guaranteed” in the constitution and the Bill of Rights since 1-1-84. Unfortunately, since our government has trampled on so many constitutional principles once highly regarded in this land, it is truly quite hard to delineate which freedoms have NOT been abrogated in this land. In fact, at the hand of the government, anyone in this nation can have their habeas corpis rights dissolved and be brought before a military tribunal, tortured to the point of organ failure or death and any forced confessions used as evidence against them. Is this really America? Not the one that I grew up with for sure!!
This my dear darling is the law of the land as given in the Military Commissions Act signed by President Bush on 10-16-2006.
So, as America heads into a tyrannical dictatorship, Dr. Hovind sits in prison because, in his reasoning, he had belief in the sanctity of the constitutional rights guaranteed unto him by the constitution that we have seen that in point of reality no longer exist. I am no longer under any belief that those basic rights that we have taken for granted for so many years exist any longer if the government were to so choose in any given case. Dr. Hovind has the courage to challenge the loss of basic religious freedom and to stand for his God in defense of the faith. So I stand as well, yet tragically it appears to me that the battle for America is becoming a lost cause.
Darling, if you believe that all nonprofits should be under the same control with no differences, then you are doing the bidding of Lyndon Johnson in destroying religious freedom in this nation that he started with the 501(c)(3) legislation. Is that the position that you wish to be remembered for?
God have mercy on us if that day is completely realized, perhaps even within the next few months or years.
With a grieved heart,
Endtimes.
sonofjapheth
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 6:48pm:Dear Bro. Kent, and Sis. Jo, May the Lord bless you and keep you, and cause His face to shine upon you, and give you peace. You are in my prayers, as are also the CSE missionaries, and your family. You have been an eye opener for me.
To welderswife: Don’t be troubled with any criticism with your using CSE material to teach with. It is more accurate than the supposed “facts” of the “billions of years ago” crowd. To be taught with accurate and Godly information is a double blessing.
To hatsoff: You said ” On the other hand, here is a wacko nutball who believes in just about every conspiracy theory on the internet, soaked up what was probably millions of dollars from gullible masses who swallowed his tall tales whole, and through his unabashed idiocy stole a *lot* of money from the government–my government. I’m therefore torn between my sympathy and my irritation.”
Kent taught the Bible, it is not “tall tales”. it is factual, not fantasy like what is taught in evolution classes. I want to make something very clear. Kent did not “steal” anything from the government. On the contrary they stole from him. You can keep “your government”. Making a law for legal plunder doesn’t make it right, or moral. I see no difference between a man with a mask and a gun taking my money by force, or government officials making laws to take my money “legally” . They are both robbers, and I pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to judge them both. I pray quite often for God to protect me and my family from our government.
To jfahler: We keep trying because way down deep in our heart, mind, and soul we are convinced that we are right. I have honestly examined both sides and am convinced the bible is correct. We defend Kent because he is the visible representation of what we believe. If I had the courage, I would be where Kent is today. The person who takes a stand takes alot of “hits”. I want to do my part to encourage Kent, bandage his wounds so to speak. From what I have read, Kent is right, moral, and is to be commended. The u.S. government is wrong, wicked, and should be reproved.
To Emanuel Goldstein: Kent did not have anything that belonged to caesar. Caesar stole from Kent what was the LORDS.
To Darling: You said “Well then I’ll just need some kind of notarized document from God to the effect that Mr. Hovind is indeed His authorized representative here on Earth. Otherwise, what’s to stop any old scoundral from cloaking themselves in religion to avoid obeying the law?
Do you honestly think that Kent is not a preacher of the gospel? And as such, is he not a representative of GOD here on Earth? The law of man concerning taxation is simply wicked. Kent reminds me of Mordecai in Esther 3:1-5 v3 “Why transgressest thou the kings commandment !?” v5 “And when Haman (taxing governments) saw that Mordecai (Kent) bowed not, nor did him reverence, then was Haman (taxing governments) full of wrath” As Kent pointed out in his video about the Nuremberg trials. What the Germans were doing was “legal” but not righteous. Taxation may be legal, but it is far from righteous.
To baliset: You have said so many things that have my emotions tied up in knots. Because I am trying to keep this post short I will simply respond to you with this: I will never forget that Kent Hovind exists. GOD will never ever forsake a man as faithful as Kent. If I were a betting man, and I’m not, I would be willing to say that Kents reward will be greater than yours.
To deconblues31: Caesar broke into GODS house and stole what was GODS. I want to thank you for an honest question.
To Paulus: What makes you think Kent stole from the community? I am a part of the community and I don’t believe for one minute that Kent stole from me or from any one else. From what I can see, the community not only stole from Kent, but violated him in other ways as well. If you want to use that argument, then Kent had my share of funds which I gladly give him.
To Samphire: I haven’t forgotten you. I have been extremely busy the past several weeks, and I don’t have the time that I would like to devote to this blog. I will get around to responding. Please forgive my tardyness.
To the Christians on this blog: Lets continue to lift one another up before the throne of grace. I appreciate each one you for your love to a fellow brother in Christ.
Sincerely,
sonofjapheth
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 7:23pm:To: FuManChu [may30], I disagree with you.
If all 7 items are not able to be checked off what you have is some sort of private agreement/ arrangement – not a contract.
A Contract, something with force and effect at law, is something that a “third party” could look at and give recognition to.
If a court is to give recognition to a legal document and make a decision based on same, or even a verbal contract, then all 7 elements have to be there.
If they are not there the document or verbal agreement is unworkable and should not be called a “contract”; the two parties could argue it forever but they can’t take it before a third party and expect them to say anything other than “the two of you are incompetent”. eg. You cannot accidentally form a legal contract with a 15 year old. You cannot be forced into any contract. You cannot be made to honour a contract with ambiguous or hidden meanings or intentions behind it. I could offer to sell you Ayers rock and you could accept my offer but it could not be a “contract”.
You don’t have to agree with me. I recognize your right to be wrong. If you have something to teach us on this come back on it.
“Go” – are you asking me to leave? If you are, express it explicitly so that your readers can see your thoughts in action. If you can get a seconder to the motion and ten people to agree with you, the two of you, on it [a minimal jury - even if not a popular vote] then I shall go happily – we are afterall, not wanting to give the appearance of giving in to any sort of bullying or abuse of process. I would also want the people whom you recruit to push such a motion [of ten] through to log on in their real names – names they will answer for before the Judge of the whole earth.
Samphire {may30}, the Australian Constitution is an act of the British Parliament and makes no mention of the existence of citizens. Also: How does one become “resident” [what is that?] anywhere without forming a contract at a port of entry or place of birthing and if title 26 has any force and effect over anyone in geographical north america there must be a point of “joining” or formation of contract. Otherwise you have nothing but “theft” or “extortion” going on under the pretense of law.
darling [may30], I accept your apology; but what if the Judge of all the earth wants to send you to Jail for ten years for your mistake herein? Are you asking Jesus for mercy, for I don’t know if I can speak on His behalf regarding whether or not He is going to forgive you.
also: “darling” re your question to Entimes “Again, who decides?” An: A competent well informed Jury of peers. Men who could look sanely at questions like “is partial birth abortion an attempt to technically hide “murder” under the disguise of constitutional entitlement?” And is someone really a dedicated Christian missionary or a businessman operating a scam for personal profit and nefarious gains?
also darling [may30]
quote: “Title 26 imposes taxes upon the taxable income of every individual.”
unquote: I still find your choice of language incredible. Are you saying that what is being taxed is a “taxable income”? rather than the “individual” who is possessing, responsible for, initiating the circumstance of or behind a “taxable income”? What “thing” are you taxing and what is it/ does your document say explicitly and without significant error or defect?
What is it you really mean and what source are you using to support it?
Quote:
“You’re not exempt from Title 26.”
Unquote: this amazes me. You are saying congress, that sits under the auspices/ imprimatur of a document that starts with “We the people …….” has granted itself license to make laws concerning everyone on earth? It beggars belief into your minds processes.
If this is all about words and contracts and law then spell it out plainly with perfected unambiguous quotes or citations that a competent Jury can decide upon without fear or favour.
Judicial opinions are interesting. Decisions of competent well instructed Juries are more than interesting; subject to exhaustive appeals, they are law.
I am not afraid of Truth. What you have put on this table thus far is not “Q.E.D.”
also I genuinely want you to make some attempt at what is “non-taxable income”. Because if non-taxable income is “uncertain” as a logical necessity so too is “taxable income”. This might as well be called a mathematical problem.
Set A is made up of subsets B and C. Subset C has no definite meaning. Therefore Set A cannot be adequately defined.
Samphire, darling, FuManChu,
I promise you I shall go at the earliest convenience.
Joshua Berndt
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 9:32pm:Hello. I am praying for you, Dr. Hovind. For those of you who don’t know, Dr. Kent Hovind encourages people to copy his materials, so they can give them out. He deliberately does not copywrite his materials. As I write, I have just finished copying three of the Creation seminar DVD’s on my computer. God answers prayer. See, I had an older computer running Windows 98 SE. I wanted to start “burning”/copying DVD’s of Dr. Kent Hovinds seminars. I asked God to give me the money(about $30) to buy a DVD burner. Then, while praying, I suddenly had the thought that maybe God wanted me to work for the money. So I asked God to give me an odd job outside my normal work. I think it was the next day that a guy from my Church asked if I would come pull out some little bushes from his front yard. Guess what? $30.00 So I bought the DVD burner from a store on the internet. An unsaved acquaintance/friend of mine(my computer guy intown) helped me know what kind of DVD burner to buy, etc. He knew I was wanting the burner for copying Dr. Kent Hovind’s DVD’s. He forgot that my computer was too old for the new DVD burner. A day or so before he told me this, he had been given a computer at a garage sale. They gave it to him for free. It was faster than mine. He discovered he didn’t need it, and when he remembered my computer was too old, he gave it to me. My Brother’s Father-in-law let me use his legal copy of Windows XP, since he wasn’t using it. So here I am.
I went to a store and bought 100 DVD-R’s for about $23. I have made copies of all 7 seminars for friends at Church and will be copying more for other friends at Church. I am going to be copying a set for my local library. Yes, you can get them into libraries, public schools, Universities, Church libraries, etc. I plan to keep one or two copies of each DVD with me in the car and in my “man bag”–its not a purse! You know…a laptop case/bag. I would think that there are many people who would turn down a Gospel tract, or a soul-winning conversation, but would accept a DVD. Is there anyone else doing like me?
ibelieve2
Said this on May 30th, 2007 at 11:34pm:Hi Brother Kent,
Just wanted to tell you I have not forgotten you. Still lifting you up in prayer.
Loved the Woodsman letter, as well as the response from the Ax. How uplifting you are Houseofhealing. I only thumb through the blogs, but am glad I stumbled on to yours, houseofhealing. What a wonderful response!
Kent, God is sharpening a tool that He has used for a long time. You have served Him well & still are through your ministry in prison. I always think of Joseph in Egypt when I think of you. You are in His hands no matter where you are. I know you know that, but just letting you know others know that too.
I recorded some more of your Creation dvds & gave them to a friend, as she new some non-Christians who wanted to watch them. You have no idea how many lives you touch. What a blessing you are!
Love in Christ,
ibelieve2
Chris
Said this on May 31st, 2007 at 12:15am:Mr. Abramson,
I would suggest that you start filtering out the comments from Samphire, and FuManchu and the likes now. It is clear that the good news has been preached to them by now. I personally have explained the good news to fumanchu and given him plenty of evidence that the Bible can be trusted as the word of God. I say it is time to dust off our feet! Having them to continue to defy logic and spit out their hateful venom can lead too no good sir. They are lost!
Again, I understand if you disagree but please pray over this issue and be mindful of how their mindless babble makes Mr.Hovind appear. (Right or wrong) To me this site should be used for nothing less than to support brother Hovind in his time of need…. God knows he needs it!
Thank you again for your time as always.
God Bless,
Chris R.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: You are right. Messages and claims and information within them overlap each day. There seem to be 3 trends within the blog. One is its purpose of updating folks on Dr. Hovind and ministry changes, etc. Then there are folks debating the legality of the IRS and taxes. And thirdly, there are the claims batted back and forth between devout believers vs. devout skeptics. I do not know that much is solved by the claims and counter-claims. And though Jesus did address His skeptics, He did not waste much time on them either, actively going around them to reach the people. We will prayerfully consider what you have said. P.A. ]
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on May 31st, 2007 at 5:31am:FuManChu [may30],
If I tried to take STRAMINEUS with me I might give the impression of wanting to own someone else’s property – and my whole thesis here has been that I don’t want to own it in any sense because someone else created the WHORE
I am yet to confirm this from second sources but in your United States’ situation STRAMINEUS’s equity title/ bond certificate is possibly held
at: Depository Trust Corporation at 55 Water Street, NY, NY.
for sheer volumes sake it is probably in an electronic format now. I believe just about every significant money movement involving promissory notes are electronic in nature these days. I have been told that when Australia gave a billion dollars to Indonesia for tsunami relief the transfer was just an electronic credit shuffle.
kind of appropriate seeing we are talking about “charges” as being like a “current between “two banks” of a river.” : the “bar” in a court being like a sand bar on the bank of a river.
A place where “trading vessels”/ “ships run aground”
Now FuManChu, when you graduate as a lawyer you will receive a license I expect. That license is a construct of the legislature. I presume that one of the things you will never want to do as a license holder is question any of the construct of the issuing of your license. Your mind and your career will be married to something somewhere. What is that thing?
I won’t have any time for this in the morning so please don’t be disappointed if I can’t get back to the page for 24 hours – if you have any questions in the mean time please refer them to “darling” who has so much experience at these things.
FuManchu
Said this on May 31st, 2007 at 12:43pm:Dear Mr. Abramson,
(Publish this or not as you like; it’s largely intended for you)
In terms of considering what Chris has said, I just thought I’d mention that this blog is monitored frequently by a great many people. I have seen it discussed on many forums, mainly sympathetic to my point of view, and one comment keeps recurring* – “I may disagree with many of the opinions expressed, but I do admire the moderator’s even-handedness”. So far this blog site has been admirably moderated, and you have expressed your personal views without allowing them to affect your actions as moderator. I, and many other posters here, hope that this state of affairs will continue.
I do of course realise that the avowed aim of the blog is a pro-Kent one, so by all means withhold any posts that are abusive or vituperative; but I don’t believe that anyone need fear anything from a spot of good-humoured debate.
*Well, two opinions keep recurring, but one of them involves Australian Phillip-George’s mental state and isn’t relevant here.
darling
Said this on May 31st, 2007 at 3:55pm:“They further decided to not use tax subsidies to support any religion here in America and thereby establish a “state church.” “
Why wouldn’t granting tax-free status for some religious groups (but not others) have exactly the same effect?
“Darling, if you believe that all nonprofits should be under the same control with no differences, then you are doing the bidding of Lyndon Johnson in destroying religious freedom in this nation that he started with the 501(c)(3) legislation. Is that the position that you wish to be remembered for?”
Your long post has no bearing on the point I was making. Again, who decides?
You say that Mr. Hovind should be tax free and Rev. Phelps should not. On what grounds?
Is it really religious freedom if some religious groups are tax exempt on your say so, but other religious groups don’t have that option?
Who are you to make that determination? Would you trust me to make that determination? Would you trust the government?
“until Lyndon Johnson established 501(c)(3) tax exempt status for “nonprofits” there was not any taxation of the Christian churches”
What about their employees? Did they pay income tax and payroll taxes before 501(c)(3)? Because, after all, that’s the issue here.
“So where did Caesar get the Authority to tax [the people of God]?”
The same place “Caesar” gets the authority to tax all employers and employees.
Again, using your line of thinking, what is to prevent anyone calling themselves a person of God, and claiming tax exemption?
sonofjapheth said this at 6:48pm May30:
“Do you honestly think that Kent is not a preacher of the gospel? And as such, is he not a representative of GOD here on Earth?”
Mr. Hovind’s version of the Gospel and other Christian preachers versions of the gospel are mutually exclusive. Only God really knows who is right, and he has been consistently silent on the matter.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 said this at 7:23pm May30:
“I still find your choice of language incredible. Are you saying that what is being taxed is a “taxable income”? rather than the “individual” who is possessing, responsible for, initiating the circumstance of or behind a “taxable income”?”
A tax isn’t imposed on every individual.
A tax is imposed upon the taxable income of every individual.
No taxable income, no tax imposed.
The person responsible for paying the tax? Every individual having for the taxable year gross income which equals or exceeds the exemption amount. They are taxed, not because they are an individual, but because they have taxable income.
“You are saying congress, that sits under the auspices/ imprimatur of a document that starts with “We the people …….” has granted itself license to make laws concerning everyone on earth?”
Why is that so unusual?
Just as American murder laws apply to everyone on Earth because anyone on Earth might potentially commit murder in America, American tax laws apply to everyone on Earth because anyone on Earth might potentially receive income taxable by America.
“also I genuinely want you to make some attempt at what is “non-taxable income”. Because if non-taxable income is “uncertain” as a logical necessity so too is “taxable income”.
Title 26 defines in many places what is excluded from taxable income. Thus, non-taxable income is by no means “uncertain.”
“If this is all about words and contracts and law…”
No, it’s just about the law.
The only reason words and contracts come into it is because you’re hoping that using magic words and/or some unsupported assertions about the nature of contracts will somehow make the law disappear. It won’t.
Have you read these yet?
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
I know it’s easier to just dismiss them out of hand, but since the birth of America it’s been a long-standing principle that it is entirely the providence of the judicial branch to say what the law is.
EndTimes
Said this on May 31st, 2007 at 6:17pm:My dear darling,
This discussion continues to become ever so more tedious all the time. I have no authority to make any govermental decisions. I have related historical content of which you question which is your right, but the historical construct is easily documented, yet I won’t because it is doubtful to serve any useful purpose. Again, you are straining at gnats and swallowing camels. It is not my concern what the tax status of Phred is. I answered your question on how to tell who is doing the work of God from a biblical perspective. My answer stands the same.
Your remarks perhaps line up with “current” thinking, but my friend, I served this country with distinction for 9 years in the US Army and I was willing to give of myself for my beliefs. I know many others that lived with their prinicples in hand even as they faced combat and death. At that time, I believed that the constitution and our principles were important, even enough to die for. One of those most basic principles is religious freedom. If you do not understand what that principle is all about, then some basic history and philosophy texts would help. Otherwise, I am signing off any further responses on this issue until we have something new and interesting to discuss. Rehash after rehash over well established historical and philosophical American doctrines is reduntantly boring for all and you have finaly done me in. So, fine, I concede and you can thus declare that you are the winner by default on this reduntant argument.
Thank you,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on May 31st, 2007 at 6:42pm:sonofjapheth said this at 6:48pm May30:
“Do you honestly think that Kent is not a preacher of the gospel? And as such, is he not a representative of GOD here on Earth?”
Mr. Hovind’s version of the Gospel and other Christian preachers versions of the gospel are mutually exclusive. Only God really knows who is right, and he has been consistently silent on the matter.
My dear darling,
You have another issue in this post that is worthy of comment. You state that God is silent. Well, in stated fact, God declared many “signs” that would be present shortly before His return. In fact, God has not been silent at all, but is loudly knocking on the doors of all men throughout this earth even today. Jesus spoke quite plainly on this issue 2000 years ago.
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Just to focus on one issue at this time. Have you kept up with the situation in Australia and the effect of the six year drought on that country? Although they have had some modestly rains since the clips that I have here, it is not yet enough to declare the drought as over. My statements are in the context of “famine” with one of the major causes of famine being drought. Yet, Australia is not the only area affected by unusual climate conditions. They are happening over the entire globe. So, your accusation of silence is actually spiritual deafness on your part my friend. Just because you don’t have ears to hear does not mean that the Lord is not shouting loudly to all that will hear. Take a look at the clip on the drought in the Amazon!! Drought inside a rain forest?? Amazing Amazon!! That was the one that was a loud wake up call to me. Your deafness is as you say, mutually exclusive from the shouts of my Saviour. This is only one of the dozens of signs stated by God. So is it silence on God’s part or simply deafness on your part? Oh by the way, what effect on the food supply do you think that the massive loss of bees will have? What another world wide cause of famine on the horizon as well?? Yes, shout it out loud He is doing but will you or anyone else that He is trying to reach listen?? Famine you say, stay tuned and look upward.
Australia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edlsy8r2FXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwe6QjW6M1I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj3Pklt-EVc
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1937008.htm
China
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-5-29/55846.html
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-05/15/content_873121.htm
Amazon *****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-ZXuDVyUwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqk_sre54WA&mode=related&search=
Tibet *****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ut0dp6yU3M&mode=related&search=
Peru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIZC3p4RBYg&mode=related&search=
Colony Collapse Disorder:(Where have all the bees gone?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxcJsWS0ME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaw4zSDhke4&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCD5dMQDDYg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHF6cbwNwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm5YCRTcWac&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLZVJRaoQAk&NR=1
praybird
Said this on May 31st, 2007 at 7:37pm:I just want to say a big Thank you to all you precious people who have posted in prayer and support to the Hovinds. Your posts are encouraging to me and my family. I have never met the Hovinds but I love them. His passion for souls came through his teachings. He never copyrighted, I don’t know of any other ministry that has done this. He repeatedly shared his testimony, I do hope and pray whoever is on the board that handles the appeals will really be able to understand what a blessing to society Kent Hovind has been. God bless and keep you in the shadow of his Wings. When all has failed Love makes a difference it always has and it always will, God is Love. from Don and Brenda Flickinger
Joshua Berndt
Said this on May 31st, 2007 at 10:40pm:To the Editor:
Concerning the following post:
FuManchu
Said this at 12:43pm:
——————————————————————————–
Dear Mr. Abramson,
(Publish this or not as you like; it’s largely intended for you)
In terms of considering what Chris has said, I just thought I’d mention that this blog is monitored frequently by a great many people. I have seen it discussed on many forums, mainly sympathetic to my point of view, and one comment keeps recurring* – “I may disagree with many of the opinions expressed, but I do admire the moderator’s even-handedness”. So far this blog site has been admirably moderated, and you have expressed your personal views without allowing them to affect your actions as moderator. I, and many other posters here, hope that this state of affairs will continue.
I do of course realise that the avowed aim of the blog is a pro-Kent one, so by all means withhold any posts that are abusive or vituperative; but I don’t believe that anyone need fear anything from a spot of good-humoured debate.
*Well, two opinions keep recurring, but one of them involves Australian Phillip-George’s mental state and isn’t relevant here.
O.K. This is me, Joshua Berndt again.
Editor, I am not sure what to do in the matter of allowing the agnostics/athiests to debate with us on this blog or not. It is true that some of them are lost. But we must never assume that that is permanant. WE DON’T KNOW. We do know that Scripture never goes away void. We also know that there does come a time to quit wasting our time on those who won’t listen. I can see the validity in both ideas(allowing debate or not).
But this was my main point of writing. Fumanchu wrote that the other anti-Hovind blogs respect you for your “even-handedness.” Well yippy-skippy! I am so tired of Christians believing they must be “fair” to the unsaved. “If I read your anti-Bible junk, will you read this tract?” Where does The Bible call us to read their bilge? This Bible that is sharper than any two-edged sword CUTS!!! Why should we waste our time on someone else’s paperclip? I heard a girl at my Church say that she was witnessing to a muslim. She agreed to read the koran, if the muslim would read The Bible. Bad deal. Not Biblical. I can’t see Jesus Christ agreeing to read a book of Satanic origin–whatever is not of God is sin–so that some other person will take a look at The Bible. Not gonna’ happen. God’s Way is a one way deal. Like it or not. We don’t need to make excuses or agreements. As my Dad says, “When you go hunting bear in Alaska, you don’t ask the bear if it wants to know how the bullet can kill him, you just shoot!”
We can always chose to ignore the repetitive debates posted and respond to the other ones that aren’t so repetitive. I don’t know. Anywho, this was primarily written to you, Editor, but you may post this, if you wish. I think it is good doctrine, and worthy to be read.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 4:31am:Dear Samphire [may31],
I disagree with you again.
If I were 12 years old, in nearly every culture on earth, the contract of sale you propose is null and void and summarily dismissed [not of lawful age]
If you knew that the car had IRS liens on it and did not tell me, the contract is null and void and summarily dismissed [failure to fully disclose]
If you intended that the car be sold with a IRA bomb on board, hidden under the back seats, that had been left there by the previous owners [an IRA sleeper cell terrorist] the contract is null and void [not a lawfully permissible sale]
As for the question of what flag is flying – the contract made in England could easily be specified subject to a foreign Jurisdiction – but it is difficult to enforce as such.
Some people teaching contract leave out the flag or jurisdiction question and include one in its stead relating to “mutual exposure” to risk
darling [may31] quote “A tax is imposed upon the taxable income of every individual.”
unquote: please quote the exact words to this effect directly from table 26 if they exist – I want the exact “word for word” quote. Because that will be the closest thing you can come up with that has words vaguely similar to “United States citizens are required to ….blah blah ….w.r.t. taxes” but yet, still profoundly different. And for the purpose of accuracing in reporting anything at all, the definition of what is taxable and non taxable is imperative to the person making the honest diligent report.
darling [may 31] quote “American murder laws apply to everyone on Earth”
unquote: this is a hideous example to use in an attempted rebuttal. Murder is a common law precept from the laws superior to constitutional and legislative, and just about everywhere has their own common law precedents on murder. Perhaps not some satanic rites groups that consider themselves outside of law.
darling [may31] quote: “No, it’s just about the law.”
unquote: I disagree: you speak as a man who wants to ignore distinctions between common law, constitutional law, legislative law, equity law/ contract law, biblical law, and regulations and rules [non laws] – and the ways in which some are superior to others.
JR Turner
I watched the Freedom to Fascism doco last night and it will take some time for me to work through; I wish I had the transcript. I “suspect” that most of the referenced material is factually correct. I suspect that it will not help people such as Samphire, FuManChu, darling. They have stakes invested in the system and don’t want any defects in it exposed or any significant changes to the status quo. To these people a fact that the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK is a foreign owned non-audited corporation is “not a problem”. Why should it be? They stand to benefit with the scheme of things left as is. Quo Bono?
You could bring incontrovertible evidence to the table about 911 and they would probably just roll their eyes and smile politely and condescendingly. Who cares?
Orwell’s pigs started out as ordinary farm animals just like the rest.
But the biggest of issues concerning the film are probably things it didn’t deal with. Negative Averment. What happens when a plea is entered in connection with “charges”. How to challenge jurisdiction in pretrial process. How to lodge counterclaims. How to demand “acceptable” rules for a case to be heard.
In one way one’s plan is to be able to get a court transcript stamped with the words “THIS CASE IS NOT TO BE CITED IN ANY OTHER CASE AND IS NOT TO BE REPORTED IN ANY COURTS.”
When you have done that you have won and people like “darling” will go on as if nothing has ever happened – and your testimony will remain below their horizon of interest.
Most people stumble over the truth, now and then, but they usually manage to pick themselves up and go on, anyway.
Winston Churchill
In Australia a lot of lawyers are now signing documents with the words Natural Person below the ALL CAPS version of their name.
The reason for this, as best I can tell, is that lawyers themselves want access to Common Law as opposed to CORPORATION COLOURED PROCESSES.
Perhaps the single most powerful posture in negative averment is simply to affirm an affidavit that you are not that CORPORATE PERSON.
I don’t believe that anyone can rebut the simple statement of truth contained in such a document tendered early enough is a process. The system relies on you identifying yourself. The very big thing is to identify yourself 100 percent correctly.
All of the cases that evans-legal “darling”’s favorite web sites references, I suspect are arguments that were brought up after a case was being run and a plea had already been entered – I suspect, but am open to better information.
I dropped in at a library last night look up “public” in the full oxford 20 volume dictionary. Sure enough references easily go back to at least the middle of the 16 century.
The word “public” shares a common latin origin with “pubic” as in “pubic hair”. Just about every culture of significance has a “rites of passage” around puberty as the attainment of manhood. This is when ‘contracts’ can be considered as the boy becomes a man and enters “public” life. And Public in this sense is something of an antonym of Private. The thing about this is that it is possible to enter public life as an agent. The lawyers themselves want indemnity from liability in connection with cases they take on but here on this blog are three lawyers who refuse to acknowledge the concept that a natural man can enter public life as the agent of the CORPORATE COLOURED ENTITY known as STRAMINEUS HOMO, upon which the modern banking system is based.
Remember that in the real world the people hardest to get through to in Jesus time were the HIGHLY RELIGIOUS and the LEGALISTIC. These people had the most difficult time with a simple truth that stood right in front of them. They were the “educated” [joke] and the “respectable” elitists. But what they didn’t quite get is that the “real big money game” was being played out back in the centre of the Roman Empire and that they weren’t really in with the serious players. Yet ironically the most serious and powerful of them all stood right in front of them.
Jesus is the Son of God, and every knee shall bow.
Please take this into your bible studies. If any thinking brother can find any defect with these words please let me know. All I expect from the “status quo” posters is the routine/pro forma lines of denial. they may or may not be under oaths of non disclosure – but they may just be so far down the food chain as to be unaware of the reality about the center of the money world – which means that as participants in a discussion they really aren’t much use.
All Glory to Jesus, Living Waters.
itlallburn
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 9:01am:Greetings,
I have been following this blog from the beginning. Like most readers/contributors here, I have been greatly affected by the ministry of Brother Kent Hovind. There are many believers in Messiah that are with Kent silently and prayerfully; My family is included.
To Endtimes: Thank you brother. You say it all, and say it well. People like me don’t need to waste blog space here, because you speak for us. May the almighty continue to use you. I give you a big brotherly hug (spiritually)and look forward to meeting you at the Marriage Feast.
To Samphire: You are one of the most gifted writers/thinkers I have encountered on internet opinion sites. Your writing is pure entertainment and causes me to really ponder exactly what I believe regarding my faith. I have enjoyed reading a little about your growing up in Britain. On the right team you would be most formidable. I am not worthy of discourse with you, as I am happy to have my big brother Endtimes here. But, What do you believe is the source of your intellect and reason? In our circles you might be nicknamed “the accuser of the brethren”.
The time has come for me to respectfully request to hear your explanation of the origins of space, time, and matter. In my very humble opinion you are in a safe position to attempt to poke holes in whatever YEC theory we believe in, but Samphire, you have not distilled the argument down to its base; Who do you say that Jesus of Nazareth is? Your answer could move a great percentage of idle bickering in the right direction.
To the Hovinds and Paul A.: God Bless and Encourage you.
Elethiomel
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 9:40am:I wonder if Mr Hovind or his devout followers have ever actually entertained the thought that God might not like what Kent is doing and is seeking to teach him a lesson. Still it’s always easy to give your support to someone in jail when you’re doing it from the comfort of your own home.
FuManchu
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 10:54am:Dear Joshua Berndt,
I can see I’m not going to get anywhere by appealing to good nature around here. I’m sorry to have met someone for whom “even-handed” is not a compliment.
Anyway, let’s try a point of view you might understand. The girl from your church, witnessing to a Muslim. Now, presumably you would say that it is her duty to do so. Obviously I don’t know the facts of the matter, but I’d say it’s a pretty fair bet that had she not agreed to read the Koran then the Muslim would not have agreed to read the Bible. Since the Bible is often regarded as a good witnessing tool, this does not seem an unreasonable course of action. Had she refused, the Muslim could have said (with some justification) that she was afraid of having her faith tested.
Having read the Koran, I can reassure you that, while the Bible may have its weaknesses, the Koran is one of the most boring and impenetrable books ever written. It reads like the jumbled ravings of a madman, which is a coincidence since historically that’s almost certainly how it came about. If she converts to Islam as a result, I’d be very surprised.
The point is that she was willing to put herself out – even put herself at risk, if you believe in that kind of thing – in order to witness to someone else. I can disagree with the concept of witnessing all day long, but at least she’s making the effort.
“God’s Way is a one way deal. Like it or not.”
The first issue, however, is “believe it or not”. I can’t like something until I’ve heard a plausible argument for it; how can you expect people to pay any attention if you won’t talk to them?
“As my Dad says, “When you go hunting bear in Alaska, you don’t ask the bear if it wants to know how the bullet can kill him, you just shoot!””
An excellent saying that has every relevance to hunting bear and none whatsoever to religion. Is “shooting” intended to represent converting someone? But anyone with a gun can shoot any bear – converting someone is rather trickier. You don’t require the bear to believe that he can be killed before you can kill him; converting people, on the other hand, requires their consent. Unless you’ve found a way to do it from afar, of course.
GORGE
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 12:11pm:Hi FuManchu,
Here is my reply, some what delayed. It’s only short explaination that continues on from my last post on Daniels 70 weeks.
This link leads to Daniel 9.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=34&chapter=9&version=9
This is only a commentry on a part of the prophecy. Matthew Henry has to say a greal deal more further on this passage, like the fact the Messiah must come and be cut off (die) before the Destruction of the second temple, however space demands I cut it short to your question on ‘weeks’. I think, if so desired, you could google his name and type Daniel 9 in the relevent box to get the rest, .
I’ve left in what some see as difficulties about dateing the start date of the 490 years that are mentioned in the passege, so you can’t call me unfair. Atleast not to me ugly face. This commentry is over 200 years old!
Taken from the Matthew Henry Commentry.
21:4.
1. The times here determined are somewhat hard to be understood. In general, it is seventy weeks, that is, seventy times seven years, which makes just 490 years. The great affairs that are yet to come concerning the people of Israel, and the city of Jerusalem, will lie within the compass of these years.
(1.) These years are thus described by weeks, [1.] In conformity to the prophetic style, which is, for the most part, abstruse, and out of the common road of speaking, that the things foretold might not lie too obvious. [2.] To put an honour upon the division of time into weeks, which is made purely by the sabbath day, and to signify that that should be perpetual. [3.] With reference to the seventy years of the captivity; as they had been so long kept out of the possession of their own land, so, being now restored to it they should seven times as long be kept in the possession of it. So much more does God delight in showing mercy than in punishing. The land had enjoyed its sabbaths, in a melancholy sense, seventy years, Lev_26:34. But now the people of the Lord shall, in a comfortable sense, enjoy their sabbaths seven times seventy years, and in them seventy sabbatical years, which makes ten jubilees. Such proportions are there in the disposals of Providence, that we might see and admire the wisdom of him who has determined the times before appointed.
(2.) The difficulties that arise about these seventy weeks are, [1.] Concerning the time when they commence and whence they are to be reckoned. They are here dated from the going forth of the commandments to restore and to build Jerusalem, Dan_9:25. I should most incline to understand this of the edict of Cyrus mentioned Ezr_1:1, for by it the people were restored; and, though express mention be not made there of the building of Jerusalem, yet that is supposed in the building of the temple, and was foretold to be done by Cyrus, Isa_44:28. He shall say to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built. That was, both in prophecy and in history, the most famous decree for the building of Jerusalem; nay, it should seem, this going forth of the commandment (which may as well be meant of God’s command concerning it as of Cyrus’s) is the same with that going forth of the commandment mentioned Dan_9:23, which was at the beginning of Daniel’s supplications. And it looks very graceful that the seventy weeks should begin immediately upon the expiration of the seventy years. And there is nothing to be objected against this but that by this reckoning the Persian monarchy, from the taking of Babylon by Cyrus to Alexander’s conquest of Darius, lasted but 130 years; whereas, by the particular account given of the reigns of the Persian emperors, it is computed that it continued 230 years. So Thucydides, Xenophon, and others reckon. those who fix it to that first edict set aside these computations of the heathen historians as uncertain and not to be relied upon. But others, willing to reconcile them, begin the 490 years, not at the edict of Cyrus (Ezr_1:1), but at the second edict for the building of Jerusalem, issued out by Darius Nothus above 100 years after, mentioned Ezra 6. Others fix on the seventh year of Artaxerxes Mnemon, who sent Ezra with a commission, Ezr_7:8-12. The learned Mr. Poole, in his Latin Synopsis, has a vast and most elaborate collection of what has been said, pro and con, concerning the different beginnings of these weeks, with which the learned may entertain themselves. [2.] Concerning the termination of them; and here likewise interpreters are not agreed. Some make them to end at the death of Christ, and think the express words of this famous prophecy will warrant us to conclude that from this very hour when Gabriel spoke to Daniel, at the time of the evening oblation, to the hour when Christ died, which was towards evening too, it was exactly 490 years; and I am willing enough to be of that opinion. But others think, because it is said that in the midst of the weeks (that is, the last of the seventy weeks) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, they end three years and a half after the death of Christ, when the Jews having rejected the gospel, the apostles turned to the Gentiles. But those who make them to end precisely at the death of Christ read it thus, “He shall make strong the testament to the many; the last seven, or the last week, yea, half that seven, or half that week (namely, the latter half, the three years and a half which Christ spent in his public ministry), shall bring to an end sacrifice and oblation.” Others make these 490 years to end with the destruction of Jerusalem, about thirty-seven years after the death of Christ, because these seventy weeks are said to be determined upon the people of the Jews and the holy city; and much is said here concerning the destruction of the city and the sanctuary. [3.] Concerning the division of them into seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks, and one week; and the reason of this is as hard to account for as any thing else. In the first seven weeks, or forty-nine years, the temple and city were built; and in the last single week Christ preached his gospel, by which the Jewish economy was taken down, and the foundations were laid of the gospel city and temple, which were to be built upon the ruins of the former.
(3.) But, whatever uncertainty we may labour under concerning the exact fixing of these times, there is enough clear and certain to answer the two great ends of determining them. [1.] It did serve them to raise and support the expectations of believers. There were general promises of the coming of the Messiah made to the patriarchs; the preceding prophets had often spoken of him as one that should come, but never was the time fixed for his coming until now. And, though there might be so much doubt concerning the date of this reckoning that they could not ascertain the time just to a year, yet by the light of this prophecy they were directed about what time to expect him. And we find, accordingly, that when Christ came he was generally looked for as the consolation of Israel, and redemption in Jerusalem by him, Luk_2:25, Luk_2:38. There were those that for this reason thought the kingdom of God should immediately appear (Luk_19:11), and some think it was this that brought a more than ordinary concourse of people to Jerusalem, Act_2:5. [2.] It does serve still to refute and silence the expectations of unbelievers, who will not own that Jesus is he who should come, but still look for another. This prediction should silence them, and will condemn them; for, reckon these seventy weeks from which of the commandments to build Jerusalem we please, it is certain that they have expired above 1500 years ago; so that the Jews are for ever without excuse, who will not own that the Messiah has come when they have gone so far beyond their utmost reckoning for his coming. But by this we are confirmed in our belief of the Messiah’s being come, and that our Jesus is he, that he came just at the time prefixed, a time worthy to be had in everlasting remembrance.
2. The events here foretold are more plain and easy to be understood, at least to us now. Observe what is here foretold,
(1.) Concerning the return of the Jews now speedily to their own land, and their settlement again there, which was the thing that Daniel now principally prayed for; and yet it is but briefly touched upon here in the answer to his prayer. Let this be a comfort to the pious Jews, that a commandment shall go forth to restore and to build Jerusalem, Dan_9:25. And the commandment shall not be in vain; for though the times will be very troublous, and this good work will meet with great opposition, yet it shall be carried on, and brought to perfection at last. The street shall be built again, as spacious and splendid as ever it was, and the walls, even in troublous times. Note, as long as we are here in this world we must expect troublous times, upon some account or other. Even when we have joyous times we must rejoice with trembling; it is but a gleam, it is but a lucid interval of peace and prosperity; the clouds will return after the rain. When the Jews are restored in triumph to their own land, yet there they must expect troublous times, and prepare for them. But this is our comfort, that God will carry on his own work, will build up his Jerusalem, will beautify it, will fortify it, even in troublous times; nay, the troublousness of the times may by the grace of God contribute to the advancement of the church. The more it is afflicted the more it multiplies.
(2.) Concerning the Messiah and his undertaking. The carnal Jews looked for a Messiah that could deliver them from the Roman yoke and give them temporal power and wealth, whereas they were here told that the Messiah should come upon another errand, purely spiritual, and upon the account of which he should be the more welcome. [1.] Christ came to take away sin, and to abolish that. Sin had made a quarrel between God and man, had alienated men from God and provoked God against man; it was this that put dishonour upon God and brought misery upon mankind; this was the great mischief-maker. He that would do God a real service, and man a real kindness, must be the destruction of this. Christ undertakes to be so, and for this purpose he is manifested, to destroy the works of the devil. He does not say to finish your transgressions and your sins, but transgression and sin in general, for he is the propitiation not only for our sins, that are Jews, but for the sins of the whole world. He came, First, To finish transgression, to restrain it (so some), to break the power of it, to bruise the head of that serpent that had done so much mischief, to take away the usurped dominion of that tyrant, and to set up a kingdom of holiness and love in the hearts of men, upon the ruins of Satan’s kingdom there, that, where sin and death had reigned, righteousness and life through grace might reign. When he died he said, It is finished; sin has now had its death-wound given it, like Samson’s, Let me die with the Philistines. Animamque in vulnere ponit – He inflicts the wound and dies. Secondly, To make an end of sin, to abolish it, that it may not rise up in judgment against us, to obtain the pardon of it, that it may not be our ruin, to seal up sins (so the margin reads it), that they may not appear or break out against us, to accuse and condemn us, as, when Christ cast the devil into the bottomless pit, he set a seal upon him, Rev_20:3. When sin is pardoned it is sought for and not found, as that which is sealed up. Thirdly, To make reconciliation for iniquity, as by a sacrifice, to satisfy the justice of God and so to make peace and bring God and man together, not only as an arbitrator, or referee, who only brings the contending parties to a good understanding one of another, but as a surety, or undertaker, for us. He is not only the peace-maker, but the peace. He is the atonement. [2.] He came to bring in an everlasting righteousness. God might justly have made an end of the sin by making an end of the sinner; but Christ found out another way, and so made an end of sin as to save the sinner from it, by providing a righteousness for him. We are all guilty before God, and shall be condemned as guilty, if we have not a righteousness wherein to appear before him. Had we stood, our innocency would have been our righteousness, but, having fallen, we must have something else to plead; and Christ has provided us a plea. The merit of his sacrifice is our righteousness; with this we answer all the demands of the law; Christ has died, yea, rather, has risen again. Thus Christ is the Lord our righteousness, for he is made of God to us righteousness, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. By faith we apply this to ourselves and plead it with God, and our faith is imputed to us for righteousness, R
pabramson
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 3:01pm:========== ========== ==========
Paul Abramson’s “Rescuing America” @ Google Video
========== ========== ==========
For those who may be interested, I have just placed a recent talk online @ Google Video:
“Rescuing America: Restoring Normalcy
and Winning the Culture War”,
by Paul Abramson
1 – Get Real News
2 – Privatize the Public Schools
3 – End Judicial Review
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=664050476979053114
If you watch it and like it, please do 2 things.
One, give it a positive rating! Two, TELL OTHERS!
THANKS!
Sincerely, Paul Abramson
amigas
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 3:20pm:Dear Elethiomel
You claim that many of us are devout followers of Dr. Hovind. I along with other Christian bloggers on this sight have not claimed to be followers of Dr. Hovind, we claim to be followers of Jusus Christ and therefore brethren with Dr. Hovind. I do not, nor would I, follow any man, and though I do support Dr. Hovind from the comfort of my daily life, I believe, I would still support him if I were in a prison cell for such support. I along with many other Christians will not turn our backs on a brother or sister in Christ because of a little pressure or discomfort.
A supporter and brother of Dr. Hovind and a devout follower of Jusus Christ.
Gene Schmeling
GORGE
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 5:19pm:Dear Dr. Hovind,
I hope you and pray that you have even more great boldness to preach the truth in love. Thank you for your continued updates. I do not know or perceive that you have times when your spirit is cast down but it’s good for you to know that if you do it’s ok. God will raise you up in due time. Grievous times of Gods refining produce the Godly fruit of Righteousness. Also, as I am sure you know, God is near to them that are contrite in heart.
You are and have been a wonderful blessing and encouragement to many. As I read your desire and effort (by the grace of God) to continually reach the lost it encourages and challenges me too do the same.
Love in Christ
Gorge
PS.
On a funnier note.
It is a bit of a mystery to me, why I only immediately recognise my bad punctuations after my comment has appeared on the blog. Not that it matters as long as in all things Christ is glorified.
GORGE
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 5:28pm:Sorry a correction is needed to my last post.
Grievous times of Gods refining produce the PEACEABLE fruit of Righteousness.
Jersey Girl
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 8:26pm:Dear Brother Abramson,
Please don’t listen too much to the people who claim you should not include the comments of the skeptics. If they weren’t somehow intrigued by our beliefs, they wouldn’t even bother posting here. Perhaps there is a part of them that wants to know the truth, only they are hard to reach. I don’t believe they are lost if they are on this site debating with us. Perhaps their soul is searching and I think that we can help them if we try hard enough.
For everyone else, remember that it is not for you to determine whether or not someone is one of the “lost.” If their hearts were already hardened they wouldn’t waste their time on a Christian blog site. So keep trying to win some souls, you never know when something you say might sink in.
My offer still stands for any atheists who are interested in learning about how I became a Christian and why I believe in God. Feel free to email me at Rebecca9682@yahoo.com, but please don’t spam me. I spend plenty of time every day filtering out spam.
God Bless you, Brother Abramson, you are doing a great job!
Rebecca Johannesen
agermany
Said this on June 1st, 2007 at 8:33pm:Have you people not been reading and/or listening to the news on Kent Hovind. He commited a crime and tried to use the good Lord to gain income and avoid paying his taxes. He deserves to be in prison. That is where we send people who break the laws here in America. He claims that he did not have “employees” at his amusement park and that they were volunteers. That is not true, in fact, the workers aid quite the contrary this at his trial.They admitted that he paid them in cash, they punched a time clock when they arrived and when they left, they had vacation & sick days for goodness sakes, yet he claims they were not employess at all. He is full of lies and is one decietful man. They have him recorded on a phone call he made to his son talking to him about trying to conceal other assets of his, i.e., a title to a car and cash. This man has you people brain-washed and this is like some modern day cult! The reason this concerns me is because my in-aws have fallen in this trap and live and breathe this man and it is ruining our family. He wants to close prisons because he believes only 3% of the people in them are violet criminals. Is he serious? Rapist, murderers, child molesters, drug dealers, etc. make up alot more than 3% of the prison population. Yeah, go ahead close the prisons you freak and when something terrible happens to someone in your family, you can solely be held responsible. Don’t get me wrong, he has very valid points on Creation. Has he taken this to the extreme, ABSOLUTELY! God says to much of anything is bad and this is definatly too much.
EndTimes
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 1:34am:FuManchu
Said this at 10:54am:
“Said this at 10:54am: Having read the Koran, I can reassure you that, while the Bible may have its weaknesses, the Koran is one of the most boring and impenetrable books ever written. It reads like the jumbled ravings of a madman, which is a coincidence since historically that’s almost certainly how it came about. If she converts to Islam as a result, I’d be very surprised.”
Dear FuManchu,
As you are a man that does not believe in the literal truth of the Bible, I ask of you what does the Bible have to say on the issue of Islam and Mohammed? Silent you say, it was completed hundreds of years before the “prophet” was even born.
The answer is actually found in Jeremiah 23:23-32, 1100 years before Mohammed, where the God of the Bible stated, “I am against you.”
23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
(Mohammed came to his “revelations” in a secret cave)
25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
(The Koran claims to be the final word of God through Mohammed.)
26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
(Who is the neighbour of “my people” which are otherwise called the Jews?? The answer: the Arabs, the sons of Ishmael.)
28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.
(The Koran liberally steals the words of the Bible to spin their false tales such as the sacrifice of “Ishmael” on mount Moriah. Sorry, but that was Isaac, not Ishmael.)
29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
(The dome of the rock is not the site of the old Jewish temple. It is instead located in the area called the “courtyard of the Gentiles.” If you don’t believe me, then ask Dr. Asher Kaufman why this is true.)
(Secondly, the true literal interpretation of this verse comes to light in understanding that by two simple verses in the Revelation 11:1-2, the “fire” of God’s Holy Word breaks the false dome of the rock into pieces. Again, ask Dr. Kaufman why this is true. It is only for you to believe or not to believe.)
http://www.excel.net/~hoy/east-tab.html
30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
(The LORD again repeats His admonition against the “neighbour” of the Jews stealing His Holy Word. The last time that I checked, the neighbor of the Jews is the Arabs. Further in Medina, Mohammed’s hometown, before he slaughtered his neighbors, the Jews, they were literally his neighbors with the Word of God at hand and available for his reading.)
31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
(Now we come to a singular prophesy that has only one fulfillment from all of the world’s religions. In the Koran, they are required to “recite” it’s words with their tongue. In fact, the word Koran simply means “the recitation.” Further, in the Koran when “their god” speaks, it is always referred to in the third person as “he says.” Check it out for yourself.)
32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
(The last verse speaks for itself.)
Thus, it is no harm to read any work by any man on this earth if one thing is done with this reading. To compare it to the ONLY true Word of God the Holy Bible preserved in English in the KJV 1611. Then, these other works have no power over you as the sword of God will create a firebrand of truth within your heart. IN FACT, WITHOUT READING THE KORAN, YOU WOULD MISS THE TRUE LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF JEREMIAH’S PROPHECY ALTOGETHER. Other than this one set of verses in the Bible, I really see no other reason to spend ANY time looking at the Koran otherwise.
May the God of the Bible bless you in your study and grant unto the light of the literal truth of His Holy Word.
In the love of Christ,
EndTimes
P.S. My dear FuManchu, which weaknesses of the Bible did you find in the verses above?? May the Lord God of the Bible that you have mocked so many times grant you eyes to see and ears to hear.
josephericlopez
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 5:50am:I think everyone who supports Kent Hovind ought to arrange a time to picket at the jail that he is in, and just raise a lot of hell. The signs should say “Free Hovind Now”. The news media should be bothered and a big stink should be raised! Kent Hovind does NOT need to be in jail at ALL! If not this, something should be organized to fight what is being done to him!
Harriet
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 6:44am:Dear particular CSE Bloggers:
The books that you write and publish on this blog merely clog cyberspace with verbosity. You obviously do not consider your audience because your
lengthy
posts demonstrate that you’re in
LA LA LAND.
If you are a brother or sister in Christ, refer to Proverbs 27: 5 & 6.
Seems that the purpose of this blog regularly gets off track.
in7days
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 1:28pm:Hi there Endtimes
Interesting lines and I have a question. Those neighbours of the Arabs, the Jews, were they the same tribe that Jesus referred to as The Synagogue of Satan, and next had about one million of them wiped out by the Romans a few years after his resurrection? I dont think The Anointed One lost much sleep over Mohammed wiping out a few more.
It is so predictable that Christian should not listen to anyone with a different message. Just kill them, ignore them, abuse them, mock them and wait for 911 and then act surprised: what did we do?
And a billion Hindus are wrong too. To serve the Lord is not the same as to knock others.
Brother Kent is not a criminal, he is just not the type. He was ill-advised with just a slight touch of greed in his guts. Stop fueling the myth that Kent is a suffering saint. We dont even know if God is involved here. Leave alone how.
Come on Kent, you can reach enough inmates on the outside and outsiders on your DVD’s. Cut the crap and cut a deal. Dont let your lovely wife suffer too.
FuManchu
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 4:14pm:Dear EndTimes,
I’m happy to say that I found not a single weakness in any of the Bible verses you quoted. I’m less happy, however, to say that I found considerable weaknesses in your interpretation of them. By way of example:
————
23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
(Mohammed came to his “revelations” in a secret cave)
————
I’m sorry to be harsh, but you’ve linked a Bible verse with the writing of the Koran on the basis of one word: ’secret’. Not only that, but the second use of the word (’secret cave’) is yours. You could have called it a ‘rocky cave’ and found a Bible verse containing the word ‘rocky’ to make exactly the same point.
————
29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
(The dome of the rock is not the site of the old Jewish temple. It is instead located in the area called the “courtyard of the Gentiles.” If you don’t believe me, then ask Dr. Asher Kaufman why this is true.)
————
Handily, you’ve done almost exactly what I referred to above. The word ‘rock’ appears in a Bible verse; you are able to link it to a usage of the word ‘rock’ in an Islamic context. You might as well say that Burger King and King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden are similar because they’re both described with the word ‘King’.
————
(Secondly, the true literal interpretation of this verse comes to light in understanding that by two simple verses in the Revelation 11:1-2, the “fire” of God’s Holy Word breaks the false dome of the rock into pieces. Again, ask Dr. Kaufman why this is true. It is only for you to believe or not to believe.)
————
‘Literal’? As Inigo Montoya said, “You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means”. A ‘literal’ interpretation takes the words at their face value: thus the literal interpretation of the verse would be that:
a) God’s word is very similar to fire and a hammer;
b) Hammers break rock into pieces.
To arrive at your conclusion via a ‘literal’ interpretation, the original verse would have to say something along the lines of “The fire of God’s word will break the false dome of the rock into pieces”. I note that it doesn’t.
I will be blunt: you’re not telling me what the Bible says. You’re telling me what you think, and you’re fitting the Bible around it.
EndTimes
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 8:27pm:Jun 2 FuManchu
Said this at 4:14pm:
I will be blunt: you’re not telling me what the Bible says. You’re telling me what you think, and you’re fitting the Bible around it.
My dear FuManchu,
Certainly it is an easily repeated criticism of any “interpretation” from the Scriptures as you have done. But what must be pointed out is that the verses with only one unique interpretation and literal fulfillment that I likewise stated were the most important part of the treatise, on these verses you have made no comment. Let’s start with 23:31:
31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
(Now we come to a singular prophesy that has only one fulfillment from all of the world’s religions. In the Koran, they are required to “recite” it’s words with their tongue. In fact, the word Koran simply means “the recitation.” Further, in the Koran when “their god” speaks, it is always referred to in the third person as “he says.” Check it out for yourself.)
So give me an alternative religion that fulfills this one verse and perhaps your comments on my implied “private” interpretation will do as you wish to bluntly declare unto me.
Then again going backwards, we find another logic premise or clue the limits the religions discussed to the neighbors of the Jews which are without question the Arabs, and also sons of Abraham.
30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
(The LORD again repeats His admonition against the “neighbour” of the Jews stealing His Holy Word. The last time that I checked, the neighbor of the Jews is the Arabs. Further in Medina, Mohammed’s hometown, before he slaughtered his neighbors, the Jews, they were literally his neighbors with the Word of God at hand and available for his reading.)
27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
(Who is the neighbour of “my people” which are otherwise called the Jews?? The answer: the Arabs, the sons of Ishmael.)
28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.
(The Koran liberally steals the words of the Bible to spin their false tales such as the sacrifice of “Ishmael” on mount Moriah. Sorry, but that was Isaac, not Ishmael.)
So, without going into further detail, please find for me another religion that has the following characteristics, starting with unique to somewhat general:
1: A religion that uses their “tongues” or “recites” their doctrines and stories and uses the third person for their god. (He says) Please also note once again the meaning of the word Koran: the recitation. I can think of no other religion in the world that has this one set of characteristics. Please enlighten me on what other religions have these two linked characteristics?
2. A religion which is the neighbor of the Jews. Well there are lots of them for this clue with one exception that limits this characteristic as well. The second part of this linked clue is that they steal God’s words for their own and they do not use them faithfully. Please note the pattern of linked clues that limits the generalization of this logic puzzle to only one known religion in this entire world. If you have another one in mind that “literally” fulfils this characteristic, then go for it my enlightened friend. This is the second specific linked set of clues to Islam alone.
3) A religion where the “prophet” dreamed dreams in a secret place. Well, certainly there may be many candidates for this characteristic, yet can you deny that it excludes Islam? No, it is entirely consistent with it and thus it is a valid clue even if possibly general to many others. That does not make it a false clue my friend. Please think back to some of your “logic” lessons a little. We can even make specific findings from general clues when they are all added together. Any entity that doesn’t fit all of the clues even if they are general clues will be excluded.
4) A religion where the Word of God makes false the lies of their teachings. They teach that the rock in the center of the Dome of the Rock is the same rock that Abraham went to sacrifice Ishmael (First lie smashed by the true hammer of God’s Word) and that this rock was where Mohammed then went up to heaven. The truth, is the foundation stone of the Holy of Holies is not this rock that they worship again by God’s Holy Word in Revelation 11:1-2. Even if Mohammed did go to heaven from this rock, it is not the rock that they declare it is, thus, the true Word of God smashes another lie about this rock. Don’t look for this rock under the new temple that will be built during the tribulation. They will build the new temple side by side the Dome of the Rock and will not destroy it as many state must happen. Don’t you understand that metaphors as used here can and do have literal interpretations?
So, this is enough defense of my proposition. If you can name me a religion which also fulfills these same exact characteristics, then I will accept that you have disproved bluntly my treatise. Simply declaring that some of the general premises of this treatise are general premises that could also be fulfilled by another entity adds nothing. It also does not falsify my conclusion based on God’s Word alone since we are looking at the completion of all the clues in one entity of which there is only one religion that has all of these characteristics.
So, please tell me what part of the Bible or the Koran that I have “fit” around my treatise. (None that I can see.) Again, please tell me what I have not stated correctly about either one to fit it into “my” interpretation. Perhaps you should look and see that it “is what it is,” and not what “I say it is” as you have accused me. Simply because I have listed the characteristics with direct correlation for each verse does not prove your premise that I am fitting anything to another falsely. If they fit, it has nothing to do with me or “my” interpretation. I didn’t write either the Bible or the Koran. I submit that it is a true prophecy of the religion of Mohammed from the Bible alone 1100 years before he was.
Let both books stand side by side and speak for themselves on which one is true. I have only pointed out what both state for themselves. If I have misrepresented either of their claims, then your accusations against me would be true. If they both speak for themselves, then that is simply the facts of the treatise standing alone on its own merit with nothing whatsoever to do with me. It is then for all including you to decide if you will hear what God is shouting to you. He is not silent, not now, nor ever.
Thank you,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 8:50pm:Jun 2 in7days
Said this at 1:28pm:
Hi there Endtimes
“Interesting lines and I have a question. Those neighbours of the Arabs, the Jews, were they the same tribe that Jesus referred to as The Synagogue of Satan, and next had about one million of them wiped out by the Romans a few years after his resurrection? I dont think The Anointed One lost much sleep over Mohammed wiping out a few more.”
Not all of Israel is Israel is both OT and NT doctrine. The destruction of Jerusalem was because they refused to accept the truth of the prophets. See Isaiah 28:11-12 and I Corinthians 14:20-22. The speaking of tongues during the time of the apostles was for a sign unto “this people” that had made a covenant with death and hell. Who were “this people?” Turn again to Isaiah 28:14-18. It was a sign unto “this people” of Jerusalem that judgement was coming in the form of destruction at the hands of people that spoke with diverse tongues. About 40 years of warning is sufficient isn’t it? By the way, the God of the Bible notices even when a sparrow falls to the ground in death. Perhaps you need to spend a little more time finding out who He really is before you spout off quite foolish accusations.
Unfortunately, most did not repent and they brought their own destruction upon themselves as shall all that likewise reject the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ our Saviour.
“It is so predictable that Christian should not listen to anyone with a different message. Just kill them, ignore them, abuse them, mock them and wait for 911 and then act surprised: what did we do?”
Sorry, but my Holy book says to love my enemies. You need to look at the number of places in their book that it says to kill their enemies. You have a false accusation against God fearing Christians.
“And a billion Hindus are wrong too. To serve the Lord is not the same as to knock others.”
Yup, sad isn’t it. Jesus states quite clearly that He is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father except by Him. Same choice that all men have no matter what false god it is they worship. There is only one true God. He likewise has the proof to prove He is who He says He is. One of those proofs is Bible prophecy.
“Brother Kent is not a criminal, he is just not the type. He was ill-advised with just a slight touch of greed in his guts. Stop fueling the myth that Kent is a suffering saint. We dont even know if God is involved here. Leave alone how.”
God is intimately involved in the life of all believers of the one true God. Since the Bible defines all born again Christians as saints, then it is indeed true that Dr. Hovind is very much a “suffering saint.” Life is precious my friend. Learn the truth before you as well face your day of judgement as did the apostate Jews in Jerusalem that rejected their Lord, Saviour, God and Messiah.
In kindness,
EndTimes.
P.S. May the Lord God have mercy on both Kent and Jo Hovind.
trueblue
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 8:59pm:Paul.
I was about to turn in last night, but started viewing your video on Utube. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=664050476979053114 . It was so interesting that I stayed up an hour longer. Good ideas we need to adopt. I’m inspired to get informed and equip others. I recommend viewing.
Mr. Manchu.
You are good at what you do. I find it easy to find errors in folks’ statements or comments, but I find it difficult to make my own statements that are accurate and that will hold up under the scrutiny of others. I can rearrange or ‘tear up’ what is already created, but I can’t create something. I believe that we have a Creator, and He inspired common men (not saints) to write what we have in the (Christian’s)Bible today. I haven’t read all your posts so I’m not sure whether you believe that the Bible is accurate, but I did read that you ask Mr. EndTimes to make his statements only from the Bible. Would you accept this form of communication? Will you state the answers to Man’s questions regarding beginnings, life, purpose, hope, and future from another source?
fuzzi
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 9:09pm:It never does change, does it? People don’t change.
They try to justify their own sinful ways by trying to point out someone else’s failings, or imagined failings.
“Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.
For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land.
Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it.” (Psalm 35:19-21)
In the end, it’s not what Hovind supposedly did, or what Falwell did, or what Bin Laden did…each of us faces God by him or herself, without any claims of “I was better than he was!”.
“For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.” (Romans 14:7-12)
Kent, hang in there. You are in our prayers, and God is in control.
Lor
EndTimes
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 9:10pm:Jun 2 Harriet
Said this at 6:44am:
“Dear particular CSE Bloggers:
The books that you write and publish on this blog merely clog cyberspace with verbosity. You obviously do not consider your audience because your
lengthy
posts demonstrate that you’re in
LA LA LAND.
If you are a brother or sister in Christ, refer to Proverbs 27: 5 & 6.
Seems that the purpose of this blog regularly gets off track.”
My dear Harriet and others with similar “off track” type of complaints,
Please note that many other blogs at times have half a dozen threads started in one day 7 days a week. It would be a wonderful thing if CSE was able to promote healthy discussions on multiple issues on a regular basis. That is the usual nature of a blog. However, the updates are few and infrequent with no predictable idea of when the next will be. The majority of issues of Dr. Hovind’s case have already been discussed in great detail with the majority of comments pro or con not in the least bit new or original. There have been for a couple of months comments with very much repetitive discussions that are not helpful as well to Dr. Hovind’s cause.
I for one relish the “off track” comments much more than another comment on “Kent Hovind is a criminal and you are a bunch of deluded morons way out there in outer space.”
If we could have a flourishing “on track” commentary lead by CSE on a daily basis, then yes your comments about “off track” issues would have more power.
Until then, I hope that we can all discuss “on track” and “off track” issues while we await more updates to help guide our prayers for CSE and the Hovinds. The alternative is to simply say nothing in between updates. That does not sound appealing to me as well.
In kindness,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on June 2nd, 2007 at 9:18pm:Jun 2 josephericlopez
Said this at 5:50am:
——————————————————————————–
“I think everyone who supports Kent Hovind ought to arrange a time to picket at the jail that he is in, and just raise a lot of hell. The signs should say “Free Hovind Now”. The news media should be bothered and a big stink should be raised! Kent Hovind does NOT need to be in jail at ALL! If not this, something should be organized to fight what is being done to him!”
Perhaps a little more biblically based plan would be better. Demonstrations and such will only lead to more percieved threats added to the charges already against Dr. Hovind. Please understand that there can be prison sentences within a prison sentence. Please watch carefully your suggestions lest they come up with further false accusations against Dr. Hovind. Please be a little more intelligent about his situation and the manner in which they already used an innocent comment by a friend that they took his phone priveleges away for 6 months. Please look at the accusations that lead to his “diesel therapy” with multiple transfers fot multiple facilities. Please heed the Word of God for how we can support our much persecuted brother in the Word and saint of God without adding further injuries to him even if well intentioned.
In kindness,
EndTimes
Teno
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 12:31am:Elethiomel Said: Still it’s always easy to give your support to someone in jail when you’re doing it from the comfort of your own home.
It’s even easier to attack or oppose someone who is in jail from the comfort of your own home.
Then again, if more people like Bro. Hovind don’t stand up to the Big Brother Leviathan federal government (even if some of us might think some of them are technically wrong on some particulars), neither you nor I may have the freedom to post our opinions in forums like this. Then it will not be so easy to supprt someone like Dr. Hovind publically.
Teno
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 12:39am:in7days said: Brother Kent is not a criminal, he is just not the type. He was ill-advised with just a slight touch of greed in his guts.
He is not touched with greed. Bro. Hovind has allowed tens of thousands of his videos to be copied and distributed. He lives in a modest house and drives a modest used car. He sinks his money back into his creation ministry. He could spend more on himself, but he doesn’t.
Also, DANNY-EKKMAN, I’m getting error/bounce notices even when I reply to your emails. I don’t know how else to contact you if that keeps happening.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 2:16am:To all witnesses faithful and true who will Judge in Righteousness,
Young Christian attorney Patrick Henry saw why a Jury of Peers is so vital to Freedom! It was March 1775 when he rode into the small town of Culpeper, Virginia. He was totally shocked by what he saw! There, in the middle of the town square was a minister tied to a whipping post, his back laid bare and bloody with the bones of his ribs showing. He had been scourged like Jesus, with whips laced with metal.
Patrick Henry is quoted as saying: “When they stopped beating him, I could see the bones of his rib cage. I turned to someone and asked what the man had done to deserve a beating such as this.”
The reply given him was that the man being scourged was a minister who refused to take a license. He was one of twelve who were locked in jail because they refused to take a license. A license often becomes arbitrary control by the government that makes a crime out of what ordinarily would not be a crime. It turns a right into a privilege!
Three days later they scourged him to death.
This was the incident, which sparked Christian attorney Patrick Henry to write the famous words which later would become the rallying cry of the Revolution, “What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, Give me liberty of give me death!” Later he made this part of his famous speech at St. John’s Episcopal Church in Williamsburg, Virginia.
unquote:
Gentlemen, I put it to you that the united States of America is built on the righteous bones of one dead preacher whose blood cries out from the ground; not against those long gone whom put him to death in their ignorance, but against those whom would surrender so blithely the freedoms hard won by better men than those whom now walk its vast shores.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin
As we must account for every idle word, so must we account for every idle silence.
Benjamin Franklin
yet, ……….Seek first the Kingdom of God ……………..
praybird
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 6:57am:Agermany,
You stated that your in-laws have fallen into this trap and it is ruining your family? How is this ruining your family? I believe you brought some valid concerns, Dr. Hovind did say he would explain himself several months ago when he was at liberty to discuss the case. As far as I know he has tried to speak the truth, even if decisions were made that weren’t right I am sure he will speak of this also. As far as Prison is concerned, I shared in this blog of an attack I personally witnessed associated with a church I went to for 12 years. My testimony put 2 men in prison, one for 14 years because he had a prior conviction for molesting his nephew in another state. I do agree with you that murderers and rapists and child molesters need to be in prison because they have brutalized children and people. I know in my heart that had I went to the Pastor first he would have told me to not call the police. Also he violated a direct order from the judge and had allowed one of the men to be on the property when that man was not allowed around children. Churches seem to hide their sins. (He that covereth his sins shall not prosper but he that confesses his sins and forsakes them shall find mercy).
I do pray for the Hovind family to be restored, healed, and delivered. And yes we do want truth to prevail. And we are grateful for his teachings on creation, the flood, and lies in the textbooks.
I also pray that what ever conflict your family is having over this will be resolved. It takes great wisdom and balance in this world to make Godly decisions. I do not agree with alot of what is going on in the IRS and the government. But last I heard I was still living in America, Land of the free and home of the brave. I don’t have to agree, but I personally have paid my taxes and I do pray that the Lord will expose the frauds and restore our country. We use to be a republic, we are now a democracy. “And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all”. I also shared that my father died in active duty in January of 1971 and is buried in Arlington National Cemetary, and that while he was in active duty I was in an orphanage for 9 years. I have never been given much help and even when he died there was no funds to help. I found out about college to late. Was that fair? no way, but my hope is not in this world but the Lord Jesus Christ. You see there is a better place waiting for those who believe and trust in Him. Where moth and rust doesn’t erode or corrupt. And the best part is that it is because of the Cross that forgives us all our sins. Not because of our rightiousness but because of Him. Should we sin? NO way, but if we do we have an advocate with the Father, our high priest Jesus Christ, not a high priest on earth who is human flesh but a Risen Savior. This is our Hope, our confidence, for He who trusts in the Lord shall not be put to shame. God is our vindicator our Strengh in times of adversity and trouble. He is faithful and will be faithful to the end. Man looks on the outward but God looks at the heart.
I hope this helps, there was no indication on Dr. Hovinds tapes of any cult like statements. Cults control, manipulate, and deceive and dominate, I don’t think this warrents cult status. He didn’t copyright his material, went on his own dime all over the United States, and many times he spoke of people just getting out and doing something for the Lord, if I have this right, he was very passioniate about the injustices of the IRS and government, and decisions were made that now he is in prison for and possibly his wife. Regardless of these decisions, I feel in my heart personally to support and pray for them, for restitution because they are our brother and sister in Christ. We all have made some bad decisions in our life, some worse than others. I don’t claim to have any professional opinions about this as I am just a grandma. Gods truth will prevail, We can trust him. In Isaiah 25:8-9 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.)
There is no other book on the face of the earth with that kind of promise and prophecy. To know that the Lord himself will wipe the tears from the faces. He sees and cares about our tears and griefs. He will comfort and restore. God bless you from Brenda and Don We pray for the Lord to restore the Hovinds, bless them and comfort them, and their family. Lord grant great wisdom in all of this, and we pray for his soon release. In Jesus name amen.
skiman777
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 8:54am:I have been watching everything since the beginning and I still do not feel like I understand everything. I do not understand why Dr. Hovind is treated as if he is a danger to society (put in maximum security). I do not understand the harsh sentence given to Dr. Hovind. If he owes taxes then send him a bill. Putting a man like Dr. Hovind in prison is a waste, not only is it a waste for Christians because he is not free to preach, but it is a waste for non-christians because space in prison is taken by Dr. Hovind that should be used by somebody who is a true danger to society (murder, rapist, terrorist). Well unless our government feels preachers like Dr. Hovind are more dangerous than actual criminals, maybe I answered my own question.
Dr. Hovind,
I have seen your presentations three times and I felt very blessed. You made me think, you helped me to understand. You gave my children the courage and knowledge to be strong in a non-christian world. I do pray for you and your family. One day all this will make more sense.
Ekkman
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 2:12pm:Ekkman
Teno
Said this at 12:39am:
——————————————————————————–
in7days said: Brother Kent is not a criminal, he is just not the type. He was ill-advised with just a slight touch of greed in his guts.
“He is not touched with greed. Bro. Hovind has allowed tens of thousands of his videos to be copied and distributed. He lives in a modest house and drives a modest used car. He sinks his money back into his creation ministry. He could spend more on himself, but he doesn’t.
Also, DANNY-EKKMAN, I’m getting error/bounce notices even when I reply to your emails. I don’t know how else to contact you if that keeps happening.”
Teno,
Thanks for letting me know. I was wondering why I wasn’t getting much mail and now I see it was just to “ekklesia@ekkcom.net” which was working. The “ekkcom@ekkcom.net” should be working now.
Speaking of “greed”. If anyone should be in jail because of greed, most of our government would be in there by now. We are in the days where evil is good and good is evil. If we don’t want to give the money we work for to a corrupt government then we are “greedy”? Interesting! We are continuing to change the meaning of words. Now greed is keeping what is legally, constitutionally yours. Makes sense???
djhouk
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 2:43pm:skiman77,
Mr. Hovind had many opportunities over many years to pay his taxes. He refused; and harassed and fought in court the IRS agents trying to collect. Most of the folks in prison are not there because they are a danger to society, but rather as punishment for breaking the law. Kent was charged with 58 counts; he provided no defense; and was convicted on all 58. That’s why he will spend the next 10 years in prison.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 5:13pm:But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate — we can not consecrate — we can not hallow — this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
Abraham Lincoln
…..of the people, by the people, for the people ………..
The Constitution……”We the people ………”
Jesus said; .,….the law was given to serve man and not man to serve the law.
The Bible says; ……..do justice and love mercy and walk humbly before God.
What has taken place is not within “a country mile of justice”.
You are the only nation on earth as far as I know it, that has a dedicated HolyDay of Thanksgiving towards God the Creator of Heaven and Earth.
Be swift my soul to answer Him, be Jubilant my feet.
Oh what a privilege to serve the Living God……..
jamesandveybe
Said this on June 3rd, 2007 at 6:07pm:Hovinds,
Fight the good fight, keep the faith. Remember Paul. They treated them ’special’ as well.
In Him,
James and Veybe Davis
Camano Island, WA
Sade Tennyson
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 6:21am:Brethren Continue to pray for brother Kent Hovind.
I checked last week Friday & discovered he has been moved again from Atlanta & He’s now in South Carolina. Click on this link http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp & type his name & surname; He is currently at FCI Edgefield (The Federal Correctional Institution (FCI) in Edgefield, South Carolina, is a medium security facility housing male offenders. The facility also has an adjacent satellite camp that houses minimum security male offenders.
FCI Edgefield is located near the border of South Carolina and Georgia, approximately 25 miles north of Augusta, Georgia. Judicial District: South Carolina)
Brethren do not be distracted, keep finding out how brother Hovind is doing so you can know what to pray for him, do not leave this to CSE brethren & the family alone, if you leave near South Carolina, try & visit him there. See if it’s easy to visit him or they are making it deliberately difficult for people to visit him, then come to the blog to inform fellow brethren, this way we’ll keep focus on brother Hovind’s situation & assist CSE & Hovinds family on prompt updates that might be useful & give us further directions on what to pray for. We all have to work as God’s children as a team & not allow the devil get us distracted (from what they are doing to our beloved brother Hovind) while some tools in the hands of the devil keep us off-track on the blog instead of us getting focused to assist brother Hovind & the family. The devil will want us to be ignorant of what is going on, so he wil always keep his agents on the blog to keep us distracted so that we do not raise any outcry to the Lor on his evil deeds to brother Hovind…brethren be focused, don’t be distracted. Remember the following word of God & be trust the Lord to direct you on when to answer a fool according to his folly & when NOT to answer a fool according to his own folly.
Pr 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pr 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Remember a who God calls a fool…see the verses below to see those whom the Lord God categorised as fools so that you can trust the Lord on when to answer them in their folly & when NOT to.
Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Ps 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Pr 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
Pr 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
—————————————————————————————————–
Brother Paul Abramson, it will be good if you could encourage brethren in South Carolina to visit brother Hovind & encourage brethren to know where he is, so we can all contribute our quota. Is this location the final point you referred to earlier or did they plan to move him again?
Is it right in the US for them to keep moving brother Hovind like this?
What is the current update on sister Jo? Are they going ahead with legal proceedings on her case this Month as earlier stated?
Our Lord God has prevailed & we bless him for his mercies & faithfulness in moments like this.
Sade Tennyson
[EDITOR'S NOTE: The prison officials do not seem to forward nor return mail sent to inmates who have been transferred. Dr. Hovind's recent spate of sudden transfers has helped to isolate him from the outside world. People don't know whether to write or not, as he could be moved again. If you send a letter or postcard, make a copy first. If he gets moved yet again in the next couple of weeks afterwards - wait and then send it again to the new address as he may not have received it the first time. Keep politics out of your letters, I would advise. And do not add "Dr." before his name on the envelope. No enclosures. He should be able to receive soft cover books, but each time he gets transferred they limit what he can take with him. For Mrs. Hovind, she continues to await sentencing. P.A. ]
FuManchu
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 8:53am:Trueblue,
“Mr. Manchu.
You are good at what you do. I find it easy to find errors in folks’ statements or comments, but I find it difficult to make my own statements that are accurate and that will hold up under the scrutiny of others. I can rearrange or ‘tear up’ what is already created, but I can’t create something.”
You’re quite right. It’s very hard to make statements that will stand up to intense scrutiny. But while some people might take this to mean that statements should not be made unless thoroughly backed up, some people seem to mean that it means they can say whatever they like, with no test in reality. I disagree.
There is also a fairly considerable disparity between the evidence required to justify scientific and religious viewpoints. To properly justify evolution, I would need to possess at least two scientific qualifications and write an immensely long and detailed post. To make an undisprovable religious statement, however, all I need to do is think up something and say it. This disparity makes it all the more necessary to hold people to a high standard of proof. I am not qualified to argue evolution; I am, however, qualified to point out mistakes in the arguments of others. We all make whatever contribution we can.
“I did read that you ask Mr. EndTimes to make his statements only from the Bible. Would you accept this form of communication? Will you state the answers to Man’s questions regarding beginnings, life, purpose, hope, and future from another source?”
I’m not sure which post of mine you’re referring to. EndTimes can make his statements from whatever source he deems best. So far this has been the Bible.
On the subject of finding answers, I think this would be a good time to make reference to a series of Creation science videos I was watching recently on YouTube. They’re by a chap called John Pendleton, who is another member of that group of creationists who believe that wearing a labcoat and digging up their bachelor’s degree makes them scientists. (A general rule of thumb: real scientists don’t wear labcoats and nametags for TV appearances, and they never introduce themselves with the title ’scientist’.) Anyway, the point about these videos is that Mr Pendleton frequently refers to the questions that many people have about – as you say – beginnings, life, purpose, hope, and the future. And after referring to them, he says something along the lines of “We have answers – powerful answers that are changing many lives”. It genuinely does not seem to have occurred to him that the main criterion for an answer is not its power, nor how life-changing it is, but whether or not it is correct. The fact is that some things don’t have answers yet – and an answer does not become true simply because it is palatable.
JR Turner
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 10:22am:“The door of the Free Exercise Clause stands tightly closed against any
government regulation of religious beliefs as such. Government may neither
compel affirmation of a repugnant belief, nor penalize or discriminate against
individuals or groups because they hold views abhorrent to the authorities.”
– Justice William J. Brennan
(1906-1997) U. S. Supreme Court Justice
Source: Sherbert v. Verner, 1963
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/William.Brennan.Quote.8F30
Kent and Joe Hovind are INNOCENT!!! The FRAUD continues!!!
GaryMurray
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 11:07am:I’ve dropped off this forum for multiple reasons, mainly because it’s become a continuing battle between believers and non-believers. Honestly, there is so much more work to be done, don’t allow these scoffers to hinder and slow your service for God. Some of the believers here should and need to realize that you are commissioned to give the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the non-believers. Once that is done you must leave the beginning of understanding God’s Word (which is the Fear of the Lord) to the individual and the Holy Ghost. You’ve done all you can do, with the exception of prayer. When you have given them the Gospel, if they reject it, it’s due to the hardness of their heart. If the Holy Ghost can’t convict them, we certainly won’t have any success in those matters. Continue to pray, cease not as Moses continually returned to Pharoah and perhaps by your prayer, Christ’s knock on their heart may be opened. Your time spent arguing can be better spent studying and witnessing to those who would listen.
In relation to the question of whether or not Kent ‘broke the law’ all of us Christians need to understand what God’s word says about this before we can claim innocence, or guilt. Briefly I will give you what I know and what I have found in hopes that it might be a blessing to you and your understanding. For those who are well versed (IN SCRIPTURE), please admonish me if this explanation of Scripture is inaccurate, but I believe it to be sound.
Romans 13:1 “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.”
The Bible teaches that a child of God is not to love the systems of this world, or be conformed to its patterns, but nevertheless is to OBEY ITS LAWS. The Scriptures present both a separation from and a submission to the state on the part of the Christian. Remember, Paul taught subjection to the state in spite of the shameful and shabby treatment he himself had often received at its hands.
Human government is a DIVINE institution given by God after the flood (Genesis 9). to assure order and prevent anarchy (Judges 17:6).
Now reading from Romans 13:7:
“Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.”
Paul is teaching to Christians that we are to render tribute (tribute being federal and local taxes), and custom (custom being sales tax) to teh coffers of the state, and fear and honor to the keepers of that state.
We are to abide by the law that God has divinely ordained over us in all nations. Makes no difference if it is corrupt, or if it is not how we like it. Having said this, we are under God’s law of grace before man’s law of land. If the law of the land is in anyway contrary to the laws of God the Father, we are to abide by his laws completely, without regard to circumstances or lawful persecutions. If indeed the tax law, no matter how befuddled it may be, requires those under its government to pay taxes, we are obligated not by the law of the land, but by God’s ordinance towards that law to abide therein. In not doing so, we directly disobey the law of the land, and the ordinance of God.
If there is ever any question, always abide in God’s laws before man’s laws. In this case, I can’t say whether or not Kent’s case was fairly triad, nor can I say his sentencing was warranted. I believe harsh penalties should be passed by the degree of the crime. Under no circumstances should one who neglects to pay a tax, have a longer sentence than those who commit a physical act of violence, but there again, man’s law is corrupt just as his judgement is corrupt, aren’t you glad our final destination isn’t the result of man’s Judgement, but the Son of God who is just and perfect, Amen.
If Kent was told he owed tribute of any kind before his arrest by a minister of American laws, he should have accepted this, regardless of its corrupt nature, just as Paul and all those before us accepted not only corrupt laws, but corrupt judgement.
I truley wish this hadn’t happened to a great man of God as Kent Hovind, however, we all must realize and remember that God’s will was done. Kent is a born again child of God, and as God said we are to be as a ‘living sacrafice’ unto the Lord it is our ‘reasonable service’. Kent is missed in the world, but his work is being continued by his son and his family. He has a different work God wanted him to begin. Some may not agree with that, but look at it from this standpoint…
Paul, probably the greatest preacher ever walked, next to Jesus. Led countless souls to Christ, but for his neglect of common law and unwavering service to God’s law, he was persecuted and imprisoned. In his ministry, I see great things that came from behind bars, including some of his greatest epistles which have today, led countless people to Christ. You might say he is condemned, but some like Paul might say he was commended and placed by God, for His works.
It seems that the world and the Devil is obtaining a victory in that one of his goal is to keep Christians busy doing nothing, while God’s work doesn’t get done.
I plead with those of you here who are continually trying to prove Kent’s innocence to others who doubt it to stop. The result of your hard work will do nothing more than antagonize the scoffers in their effort to displace you from God’s work.
Even Kent Hovind himself knew the important of Nehemiah 6:3. God has work for all of you, and I am sure it isn’t battling with the same scoffers daily to prove the innocence of a saved man of God, while there are uncountable guilty men out there, on their way to Hell, waiting for someone like you to show them the way to a Saviour.
Its in His name I write this and hope that it might bless the hearts of those who would listen.
God Bless
jwalker59
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 11:52am:Sade, I want to thank you for your entry. This is what we need to see more of; believers doing what believers are instructed to do, pray for and visit those in prison. I almost wrote a letter answering the silly word mongers in here but the real purpose in signing up for this blog was to help and encourage Dr. Hovind. The Sanballots and Tobiahs will have to deal with it (Nehemiah 2).
I have some questions for the editor:
Is moving prisoners this much standard?
Does Dr. Hovind receive all the messages from this blog?
If we are fortunate enough to be in a position to visit him, what kinds of things should we bring? (i.e. money, food, personal items?)
Why don’t we add “Dr.” before his name on letters?
Praise to our God and blessings to all who belong to Him through Jesus Christ.
darling
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 12:27pm:Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 said this at 4:31am Jun1:
“If I were 12 years old, in nearly every culture on earth, the contract of sale you propose is null and void and summarily dismissed [not of lawful age]”
On the other hand, 12 year olds lawfully make contracts for sale every time they buy a bar of chocolate.
please quote the exact words to this effect directly from table 26 if they exist – I want the exact “word for word” quote.
You’ll need to look in the thread “Why Suffering?” I answered that question there and expounded upon it more than once. I don’t care to do it again.
“Because that will be the closest thing you can come up with that has words vaguely similar to “United States citizens are required to ….blah blah ….w.r.t. taxes” but yet, still profoundly different.”
Only if you make the ridiculous contention that that United States citizens are not individuals.
“And for the purpose of accuracing in reporting anything at all, the definition of what is taxable and non taxable is imperative to the person making the honest diligent report.”
It’s in the tax code. So the honest, diligent person has at least four options:
1) Read the tax code.
2) Read the I.R.S. summaries of the tax code.
3) Buy some tax preparation software to do the calculations for you.
4) Hire a competent tax professional to do the calculations for you.
The dishonest person will instead:
1) Play word games.
2) Demand answers to meaningless questions.
3) Make stuff up.
4) Ignore the overwhelming body of legal precedent.
This isn’t about finding the magic words that will make a loophole appear.
“this is a hideous example to use in an attempted rebuttal. Murder is a common law precept from the laws superior to constitutional and legislative, and just about everywhere has their own common law precedents on murder.”
I see you’re not denying my main point.
Choose a different law of general application. The same principle applies.
“you speak as a man who wants to ignore distinctions between common law, constitutional law, legislative law, equity law/ contract law, biblical law, and regulations and rules [non laws] – and the ways in which some are superior to others.”
I certainly want to ignore your concept of the law, which has no basis in reality.
Again, I’ve given you a wealth of information to read and digest. There are countless citations to untold riches of information, for you to double check and cross reference. It’s all there, why don’t you want to look?
EndTimes said this at 6:17pm May31:
“This discussion continues to become ever so more tedious all the time. I have no authority to make any govermental decisions.”
Someone has to. Otherwise, if Mr. Hovind can claim to be tax-exempt simply because he says he is doing God’s work then so can I.
“Rehash after rehash over well established historical and philosophical American doctrines is reduntantly boring for all”
Perhaps if you addressed the issues I raised it might actually move the discussion along a little. I am not taking issue with the foundations of your position, only the implications of your conclusion.
“You have another issue in this post that is worthy of comment. You state that God is silent.”
I state that God is silent on a particular issue.
Again, your long post failed to address the specific point I was making.
skiman777 said this at 8:54am Jun3:
“I do not understand the harsh sentence given to Dr. Hovind. If he owes taxes then send him a bill.”
If only it were that simple. Mr. Hovind didn’t want to pay taxes, bill or no bill.
“Putting a man like Dr. Hovind in prison is a waste, not only is it a waste for Christians because he is not free to preach, but it is a waste for non-christians because space in prison is taken by Dr. Hovind that should be used by somebody who is a true danger to society.”
I agree that Mr. Hovind in prison is a waste for his mission. That was the choice he made.
As for society as a whole, prison is not just about incarcerating those who are dangers to society; prison is also about punishment, deterrent and rehabilitation. Mr. Hovind is being punished for breaking the law. His sentence serves as a warning for others who are considering following the same path.
My hope is that Mr. Hovind also swallows his pride and learns more about how the law works. The law is not what you or I think the law is, the law is what the Courts say it is. This is important because how the courts have ruled in the past guides us as to how they will rule in the future. Hopefully Mr. Hovind will realize that his position on taxation is fundamentally flawed, and will not make the same mistake again.
I am sad that Mr. Hovind is in jail, even more so that Mrs. Hovind may join him. I hope that she does not. Nevertheless, this situation was easily avoidable. Mr. Hovind should have listened to the right people, instead of seeking out those he knew would tell him what he wanted to hear. Ultimately, the responsibility for his choices rests upon his own shoulders.
Ekkman
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 12:32pm:Ekkman
Do they move all of the so-called “tax evaders” all over the country like they are doing Kent Hovind? Common sense tells me that they are messing with him because he is leading people to the Lord Jesus Christ. I have been put in jail for preaching the gospel. The cop said that he arrested me by saying I was obstructing traffic. The only traffic I was obstructing were the cars driving on the sidewalk. We are already in a police state. They can arrest you for any reason. Christianity is about the only “religion” that is not popular in America in these last days even though this country was founded on Christianity.
I am going through the hardest times I have ever been going through in my life. God is judging his church as he said in the last days before he comes again. My wife is divorcing me. She moved her first boyfriend in. She found out that he was having an affair on her so she kicks him out. I tell her, “Gayle, you have an affair on me and you kick the guy out for having an affair on you? The bible says, “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” I go on to tell her that she is just reaping what she is sowing. It is a spiritual law. Anyway, she is working on another boy friend. I still love her and I am praying for her, that she will be broken by the Spirit of God before it is too late. Pray for us and especially our children. They are only 6 and 7 years old. I raised them mostly by myself. Now she has them and they are being raised by others just as Hillary would have it. We are a “global village”, you know?
God does not call us to be quitters but fighters, in whatever way he calls us to fight the fight of faith. We are responsible for what he shows us or leads us to do. We are to lay hold on eternal life as the word tells us to do. Laying hold on it is walking in faith, claiming the promises of God.
While we are going though our trials since the body is being judged then God’s promises are put on hold, so to speak, until we come out on the other side of the trial. This was true for Job and God blessed him in many ways after his trial. He was not released from it until he prayed for the ones who condemned him. We are to love our enemies, pray for those who revile us and persecute us.
I tell people all the time now, “Jesus is Lord even when it doesn’t look like it.” And it certainly doesn’t look like it at this time in my life or in Kent’s or other believers that I know that are going through some very, very hard times too. Jesus is coming back for a “bride” that is walking in the faith.
JR Turner
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 12:41pm:Attorney Challenges Income Tax Law – Constitutional History in the Making
http://www.gcstation.net/liefreezone
http://www.gcstation.net/liefreezone/THEMEMORANDUM.pdf
Kent and Jo Hovind are INNOCENT! The FRAUD continues!
Ekkman
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 12:45pm:Ekkman
Darling, David, “On Creating Something from Nothing,” New Scientist, vol. 151 (September 14, 1996). p. 49 “What is a big deal—the biggest deal of all—is how you get something out of nothing. “Don’t let the cosmologists try to kid you on this one. They have not got a clue either—despite the fact that they are doing a pretty good job of convincing themselves and others that this is really not a problem. ‘In the beginning,’ they will say, ‘there was nothing—no time, space, matter or energy. Then there was a quantum fluctuation from which …’ Whoa! Stop right there. You see what I mean? First there is nothing, then there is something. And the cosmologists try to bridge the two with a quantum flutter, a tremor of uncertainty that sparks it all off. Then they are away and before you know it, they have pulled a hundred billion galaxies out of their quantum hats.”
Also on p. 49
“You cannot fudge this by appealing to quantum mechanics. Either there is nothing to begin with, in which case there is no quantum vacuum, no pre-geometric dust, no time in which anything can happen, no physical laws that can effect a change from nothingness into somethingness; or there is something, in which case that needs explaining.”
I thought this was an interesting comment coming from an evolutionist!!! Many of them are seeing that their religon called evolution is not true and it certainly doesn’t give peace of mind. Others are coming to see that “something” is God, the Lord Jesus Christ.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Col. 1:16,17)
The Lord Jesus Christ holds all things together, they consist by his power. Symonyms for consist… “dwell, exist, inhere, lie, repose, reside, rest”. He is the “force” that scientists can’t explain that holds the atom together.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 5:49pm:Dear Saints of the Most High God,
Revelation has disturbing images within its pages. We don’t throw our bibles away because of it though and in the End we know who wins.
I am posting this today because there really may not be that much more time to learn this stuff or even simply to bring it to your attention; and you really might have to do a crash course before all of it is “pulled” from the Internet – like WTC 7, it just might be gone one day.
Question: Did “all of” the United States go from a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy restructuring arrangement to a Chapter 7 Liquidation arrangement on October 17, 2005?
http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialch149.html
http://www.arkenterprises.com/index11.html
also think about materials that “might be” at
http://www.worldnewsstand.net
http://www.wealth4freedom.com
http://www.apfn.org
http://www.abovetopsecret.org
two of these URL’s I could not access from this computer so I am guessing? They are listed as Access Forbidden on my server [what a joke of a thing to call it] – but by whom, and why? Who is afraid of truth enough to censure?
In Revelation there was a little scroll that tasted sweet in the mouth but turned sour in the belly.
Many bible teachers have interpreted Rev 13.11 to be America. Came up out of the land, a lamb at first appearance but then spoke like a beast and gave power to that other and former beast …..
What would happen now then if one took a “united States of America” real flag into a court to fly it according to the real law of the land.
I hope to exit this blog so very soon. Others out there must have seen some of this material and be genuinely up to speed with it…..
/surely someone else has had an ear to the ground listening for signs of the age to come ……
All the best from Australia, the land mass.
ps. It seems that several people have gotten out of prison using simple Habeus Corpus type instruments – perhaps someone should take a plane ride to talk to these Saints.
Also RE: djhouk’s [june03] last post. Many people have posted with words along the lines of “he broke the law, I saw it on television” – I would simply remind everyone that CNN is fair and balanced and you can trust them with your life – well at least I think that’s what they mean? have a sunny day in the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind djhouk.
And all glory to Jesus the Lord.
EndTimes
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 6:24pm:My fellow bloggers at CSE, both friend and perhaps even foe,
I wish that we could settle a few often debated issues once and for all. A blog is created when the creator of the blog wishes to moderate discussions. In this nation, we once gave honour to free speech and at one time we were manly enough to handle dissention and disagreement as a price for free speech. If Dr. Hovind is standing on the constitutional tax issues, it would be hypocritical of CSE to seek to limit the free expression of any mannerly disagreement spoken without malice or profanity on this blog. Otherwise I would recommend simply giving an email for direct comment and send out updates on http://www.drdino if we don’t wish to hear from those that disagree with CSE. So, if CSE chooses to oversee a blog, then CSE should be manly enough to handle those that disagree with your positions that again are done in a gentlemanly manner as has been done to date. Likewise, those that support CSE should also conduct ourselve in such a manner as well. Or otherwise end this blog and administer updates as above through http://www.drdino as already you have capacity.
Secondly, calling people “fools” is ungodly and prohibited by the Bible and those people that do such shall be called into judgement. For those that have done that, all should repent. You are not obeying God’s Word when you do such things:
1) James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
2) Matthew5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
My friends, seek that which is above and show the lost that we have something different than those which have no hope. I myself am turned off when I here people castigating those that have legitimate questions of faith that they have not yet resolved. I myself routinely persecuted Christians with insults and in one case by castigating the performance of one of my Christian interns when I was in my residency program. Thankfully, 4 years later, the Lord allowed me to directly see the fruits of foregiveness with this same man as we enjoyed 8 days of desert training in the Army in the fellowship of God’s Son shortly after I was saved. It is one of my most cherished memories.
I enjoyed “freeking out” those airport people and calling them weirdos and other such terms of fine endearment. But, this is not what the Lord has taught us to do. If nothing else, should not CSE embody the evangelistic outreach of Dr. Hovind who has devoted the majority of his life in such an endeavor?
Lastly, the Lord further commands us by the admonition of Peter to be ready to give an answer to EVERY MAN of the hope that lies within us. If we exclude those that we don’t agree with, how shall we keep this commandment??
I Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
,B.13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
If we insult and denigrate those that are also made in the image of God our Father, we are likewise cursing directly the image of God and indirectly calling Him a fool as well. Please consider that the blessing comes only when those that speak evil against you are made ashamed by your good conversation in Christ. Calling another man made in the image of God a “fool” is not good conversation in Christ, plain and simply and I wish people on this blog would refrain from such especially if we are blessing God on the same post. These things should not be!! I will confess that I am not free of the temptation to call people fools and stupid and dumb and ignorant and wierdos and geeks and brain dead and whatever insult that seems to fit the situation. Yet, it is not godly and it is something that we all should repent of doing including myself. (My downfall is California drivers. Sorry, but my wife correctly points out that those words should not come out of my mouth even after they cut you off or otherwise. Yes, I am not free of this sin myself.)
My dear Samphire has exhibited more Christian grace in his mannerisms than the majority of people on this blog which I attribute to the Christian parents that raised him. Please don’t forget their prayers for this man!! May the Christians on this blog seek an even higher calling that all would see the love of Christ even in our conversation on this blog. May God have mercy on our wicked souls for the poor representation we have given to the lost and dying who come to this blog seeking answers that will matter for all eternity.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
May God be with us, May God grant mercy on the Hovinds and CSE,
EndTimes
Jason
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 6:31pm:Thank you Sade Tennyson for the link and the encouragement to pray for Kent.
We are all one body in Christ, and if one part of the body suffers the whole body suffers.
Kent’s treatment; many movements, lost mail, solitary confinement, and then worries about his wife’s future etc, is certainly going to be a great strain on Kent’s spirit.
It must be very difficult for a man who’s ministry is communicating, to be so isolated. He is human and humans have their limits, even Jesus asked his father “Why have you forsaken me…?”.
I have been bringing Kent before God in prayer, and will continue.
Thoughts…
One day every tear will be wiped away & God will be glorified.
Until then these three remain, Faith Hope and Love,
The greatest of these is Love, God is Love and he is eternal.
Thankyou again
Love Jason x
agermany
Said this on June 4th, 2007 at 8:42pm:In regards to the argument that his material is not copyrighted, this is what I found on http://www.wikipedia.org website about him and then some:
“In the late 1990s, Hovind created his Dr. Dino web site and began producing articles and information as well as selling his own products — video tapes, books, fossil replicas, etc. — to a mass market. On a portion of his website, it states, “None of the materials produced by Creation Science Evangelism are copyrighted,” but on the same webpage, at the bottom, it states “ALL MATERIAL (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED) IS COPYRIGHT © 2007 CSE MINISTRY” (caps in original).[6] Moreover as for his products, each webpage at his online store reads “ALL MATERIAL (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED) IS COPYRIGHT © 2005 CSE MINISTRY” (caps in original).”
According to the IRS, Hovind’s theme park and merchandise sales earned more than $5 million USD from 1999 to March 2004.[24] About half that income went to employees who were salaried or were paid hourly wages that worked set hours and signed up for vacations and sick leave. The government believes that grew to the point of earning $2 million a year.
Hovind’s Creation Science Evangelism ministry is not listed as a tax-exempt Code Section 501(c)(3) charitable, educational or religious organization by the Internal Revenue Service[31] nor is it considered a church by people who work there.[32][33] Instead, Hovind’s various educational and religious activities are run through an organizational structure which, according to the United States Tax Court, appears to be “based on various questionable trust documents purchased from Glen Stoll, a known promoter of tax avoidance schemes.”[8] The Tax Court has concluded that Hovind used these trust documents as well as other fraudulent means to conceal the ownership and control of his activities and properties.[8]
In 1996 Hovind unsuccessfully filed for bankruptcy to avoid paying federal income taxes claiming he wasn’t a citizen of the US and did not earn income.[35] Hovind was found to have lied about his possessions and income.[36] He claimed that as a minister of God everything he owns belonged to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the United States on the money he received for doing God’s work.[37] The court ordered him to pay the money and upheld the IRS’s determination that Hovind’s claim “was filed in bad faith for the sole purpose of avoiding payment of federal income taxes.” In the ruling, the judge called Hovind’s arguments “patently absurd.” The judge also noted that “the IRS has no record of the debtor ever having filed a federal income tax return,” although this was not the court’s reason for denying the bankruptcy claim.
Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Kent Hovind 2005 AffidavitOn May 13, 1998, Hovind and his wife attempted to evade responsibility for any promises, debts, or legal agreements made prior to April 15, 1998, by filing a document called “Power of Attorney and Revocation of Signature”[38] with the Escambia County Clerk of Courts. The document reads, in part: “I/we do hereby revoke and make void… all signatures on any instruments…”. The Hovinds claimed they had signed government documents “due to the use of various elements of fraud and misrepresentations, duress, coercion, under perjury, mistake, ‘bankruptcy’.”[38]
In the document, the Hovinds argue that Social Security is essentially a “Ponzi scheme.”[38] The Hovinds referred to the United States Government as “the ‘bankrupt’ corporate government” and said they were renouncing their United States citizenship and Social Security numbers to become “a natural citizen of ‘America’ and a natural sojourner.”[38] In 2002 Hovind was again delinquent in paying his taxes, and unsuccessfully sued the IRS for harassment.[39] The Hovinds referred to their home state of Florida as “the State of Florida Body-Politic Corporation.”[38] Judges and the IRS did not appear to honor this as a legally relevant document in future decisions.[39]
Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Kent Hovind v Scott SchneiderIn 2004, IRS agents raided Hovind’s home and business to confiscate financial records.[40] IRS agent Scott Schneider said Hovind’s businesses had neither business licenses nor tax-exempt status. The Associated Press quoted Schneider as saying “Since 1997, Hovind has engaged in financial transactions indicating sources of income and has made deposits to bank accounts well in excess of $1 million per year during some of these years, which would require the filing of federal income taxes.”[41] On June 3, 2004, the IRS filed notices of Federal tax liens of $504,957.24 against Hovind and his son and their businesses due to previous legal maneuverings to evade taxation by moving property between himself, his son, and other legal entities.
“At the time of the indictment, Hovind’s defense appeared to be that although there were 30 people working for him, all of whom received remuneration in cash, none of them were employees. According to Hovind, “Nobody’s an employee, and they all know that when they come. They come, they work … The laborer is worthy of his hire — we try to take the purely scriptural approach. We do the best we can with helping people with their family needs. There are no employees here.”[52] Hovind had also claimed that he was not liable for taxes that and his ministry did not have to “render unto Caesar” because his workers are “missionaries” not “employees”.
Wikinews has news related to:
Evangelist Hovind found guilty for tax fraudOn October 21, 2006, the trial began in which he hoped to convince a jury that his amusement park admission and merchandise sales belonged to God and cannot be taxed.[54] After the first week of testimony the trial was postponed due to a defense lawyer’s illness.[55] Former and current workers, IRS agents, a bank employee, and a lawyer of a non-profit Christian organization testified in the trial. Workers testified that they had to punch time cards, had vacation and sick days; while others testified Hovind claimed he had “beat” the tax system.[56] During the trial, the judge “admonished” Hovind’s attorney for wasting time and asking irrelevant questions.[57]
The trial concluded on November 1 with the defense deciding not to present a case.[58] After closing arguments were presented on November 2, the jury deliberated three hours before finding the Hovinds guilty on all counts, 58 for Hovind and 44 for his wife.[59] The Pensacola News Journal noted, “The saddest thing: Had they cooperated with the agents, they probably wouldn’t be worrying about prison sentences now.”
All of this came about by simply googling Kent Hovind’s name. IS this truly someone that you people want to follow biblically? If so, you may want to question your faith and character!
[EDITOR'S NOTE: ...or ... one could question the veracity of Wikipedia, as they appear to monitor and to DE-correct attempts to correct Dr. Hovind's entry. Where are you placing your faith? Wikipedia is no absolute. Yet you seem to quote it as such. If the God of the Bible could use murders like Moses, David, and Saul of Tarsus then He may be capable of even using folks like me too. Maybe He could use Dr. Hovind as well, hmm? P.A. ]
Harriet
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 12:35am:Dear EndTimes,
Thank you for your kind response to my not-so-kind complaint. I wish that CSE could afford a better software program, which would manage the threads of this blog just a little better. Harriet
———————————–
Quote:
josephericlopez
Said this at 5:50am, June 2, 2007:
I think everyone who supports Kent Hovind ought to arrange a time to picket at the jail that he is in, and just raise a lot of hell. The signs should say “Free Hovind Now”. The news media should be bothered and a big stink should be raised! Kent Hovind does NOT need to be in jail at ALL! If not this, something should be organized to fight what is being done to him!
Harriet’s comment on the Picket-the-Jail-Idea:
You are suggesting that we picket the Law Enforcement, those who are armed with deadly weapons. Law Enforcement merely enforces the Law. Armed Jailers have no power over those who are dictating the law. They are employees. When we protest, we need to elect a format to increase public exposure, and to make our protest known to those who have power to change things: Judges, Legislators, and elected officials.
About Hovind’s time in Solitary. We all look forward to a further comment from Brother Kent concerning this treatment, but I will reiterate that going into Solitary can be routine practice for any and all inmates at a new facility. This is an explanation given me by a Prison Chaplain, a Christian brother with >decade of prison ministry experience.
Harriet
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 1:06am:Mr. Paul,
I reviewed previous posts and am reminded of Mrs. Jo Hovind’s sentencing-court appearance expected in mid June.
If you know a specific court date, I want to be praying particularly for that court appearance. Pl. remind me of the Judge’s name, and include the major prayer points.
Thank you, Harriet
Sade Tennyson
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 7:04am:Beloved Brother Kent Hovind, Sister Jo, Eric, Hovinds family & CSE family
Peace & grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
Be encouraged that our Lord Jesus Christ is over all.
You are in my prayers daily & our God answers prayers.
He will perfect all that concerns you & glorigy himself in this situation.
Remember – Known unto God are all his orks from the beginning. We keep trusting the Lord for the needed strength for such a time like this & for his divine intervention for truth to prevail.
Remain blessed of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Sade Tennyson
FuManchu
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 9:03am:Aussie P-G:
I don’t know if you ever saw The Pirates of Penzance, but there’s a famous scene in it in which the policemen simply refuse to leave the stage, all the time singing about how they’re leaving. “Yes, but you don’t go!” cries the Major-General, mirroring my feelings at this moment in time. You keep on telling us that you’re about to stop posting – perhaps you could make good on that promise.
When I first started posting here, I looked at the various posters and what their opinions were. Some seemed rational people who shared some of my views; others didn’t share my views, but nevertheless put forward interesting and well-argued points. Others simply quoted the Bible at random, but over time I found that even they were people with whom I could have a conversation.
You are different. You’re actually barking mad. A lot of people here have at least one crackpot theory but are otherwise quite agreeable; you have not said one single word on this blog that wasn’t a complete waste of your computer’s processing power. Your theological analysis is overblown and disjointed, your writing style is characterised by an inability to string coherent thoughts together, and your legal opinions – to the extent that they deserve the benefit of the word ‘legal’ – border on the insane. Quite frankly, if I didn’t know better I’d suspect you of being a hoaxer come to test the boundaries of what you can get away with.
You’ve gone straight through Upton Park and got off several stops past Barking. You’ve copyrighted your name, you insist that the IRS has created a financial clone of everyone called a STRAMINEUS (a non-existent Latin word), and you characterise every setback – even when your computer can’t access a website – as part of an international conspiracy. Religious opinions, no matter how bizarre, are often treated with some respect, but I don’t need to criticise your religious opinions. You’ve moved into the realms of law and taxes, both very human realms indeed, and I have no compunction whatsoever about informing you that the day you leave this blog, the average sanity of its members will leap upwards. For the love of God, read a book or a website that you don’t already agree with! A news site, a tax code, a science book, a Latin dictionary – something!
For the second time now – go, and take JURIDICAL STRAMINEUS with you!
Matthew
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 12:34pm:Paul Abramson said: … one could question the veracity of Wikipedia, as they appear to monitor and to DE-correct attempts to correct Dr. Hovind’s entry.
Mr. Abramson, can you please explain what is wrong with the Wikipedia article? There are sources provided to what is written. Can you say if these are false? Also, you mentioned that you and Hovind tried to edit the article. What did you want edited? If you do not provide an explanation, then I can I believe that your complaints are legitimate?
There is a Conservapedia article on Kent Hovind which is brief.
GORGE
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 5:05pm:Dear FuManchu,
You wrote
“On the subject of finding answers, I think this would be a good time to make reference to a series of Creation science videos I was watching recently on YouTube. They’re by a chap called John Pendleton, who is another member of that group of creationists who believe that wearing a labcoat and digging up their bachelor’s degree makes them scientists. (A general rule of thumb: real scientists don’t wear labcoats and nametags for TV appearances, and they never introduce themselves with the title ’scientist’.)”
Fu, you are checking youtube for creationist material.Ofcoarse there could be many reasons for you doing this, not least to find more material and evidence to reinforce the arguments for contradicting the Christian Faith.
However despite the common fact that youtube uploads are overwhelmingly sided and fiercely voiced towards and for the evolutionist position and if you were seeking God, these vids, on the whole, would unfortunately disappoint.
Nevertheless could this action, be showing just a little of what could be called seeking?
I have learned from the Word and experience to keep my eyes on Christ and not on man. Christ and His Word will always prove true, trust and follow. God has given a promise; if a person humbles himself, cleanses his ways and draws near to God through faith in Christ, God WILL draw near to that person.
Taste and see that the Lord is Good, blessed is the man who trusts in Him.
God is Faithful
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 5:28pm:Dear agermany [jun04]
if you do a quick google search you might find that the IRS is domiciled in Peurto Rico, the Federal Reserve Bank is a foreign owned multinational corporation which never gets audited, has unelected officials and answers to noone; you might find that despite all men being equal before the law that attorneys claim immunity, you might find that the flag flying in most public buildings is not really the united States of America flag, you might find that most Jurymen do not comprehend what they are there to do and you might find that money is created out of absolutely nothing.
In real contracts, not the type of pieces of paper that “darling” talks about, you might find that there has to be mutual exposure to risk and that the international federal banksters are exposed to no risk because what they created was from nothing at all. ex nihilo.
In this real world you might find that there is a question in real law called “mens rea” which you failed to establish in your post.
In this real world you might find that Christians are not interested in punitive destructive retribution punishments even if there were a real “crime” ie. two witnesses could stand up and say they suffered loss – you will find that the Christian sentiment of Justice is that people repay proven debt and that families not be destroyed in the process.
In the real world you will find that the only type of copyright that you claim about the website is against unauthorized commercial profit and gain and that Brother Kent really does not claim copyright on the main series of works.
In the real world you might find that the constitution as it was written has been treated like “just a goddamned piece of paper” and that many of the points of interpretation of the constitution have not really been tested before any jury at all.
In this real world you might find that Christians are not interested in slander while an appeal process is not finished. In this real world you might find that unlike sinners Christians would prefer just to forgive and get on with their lives and helping people caught in a pseudo scientific soul destroying religions like macro-morphic evolution.
In a real world you might find that partial birth abortion is murder.
ps. and testimony’s are irrelevant here so it seems – my own first child was born less than 28 weeks and is a healthy perfect playful intelligent young boy now.
In a real world you might find that 28 week old babies have no defenses against anonymously owned corporation doctors and their paid up attorneys.
they have no way to answer, no voice to defend themselves.
May God’s wrath be kindled.
If any of these words are defective please teach me. You are such the deep researcher that you could surely explain my error.
please forgive the typos. I have to get moving now – I am in a hurry.
without prejudice, all rights reserved.
EndTimes
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 5:43pm:Jun 4 agermany
Said this at 8:42pm:
“All of this came about by simply googling Kent Hovind’s name. IS this truly someone that you people want to follow biblically? If so, you may want to question your faith and character!?
Dear agermany,
Thank you for your update of old news that has been discussed in great detail already. I am aware of all that you have noted as do those that also participate here over the last last several months. Perhaps you should do a little more reading on prior blogs to get up to speed before spouting off about old news already discussed here. My faith like all men should be more for the glory of God, but my support of a man devoted to the saving of souls is more than biblical despite your attempt at denigrating anyone that would still associate with Dr. Hovind,
You might wish to read over the constitutional and sovereignty issues discussed in great detail on this blog previously. You don’t have the whole story until you have the whole story. One thing that I have learned since my participation on this blog is that the reverence for the constitutional principles once held by the majority of the people of this nation for which many were willing to die in times past is no longer present. It is quite sad to see that most people no longer live by guiding principles in this nation. So, the “tactics” that you have written about I am likewise not happy with. However, as with all things, what was the motivation for Dr. Hovind to risk all that he has for this issue? As I have noted before, it is not a smart thing to judge others from ignorance without having all of the facts in hand.
Further, I would recommend that you do indeed find out more information on how our constitutional rights are being abrogated over and over again by those that have sworn an oath to “protect and defend” the constitution. Aside from the tactics that you have outlined that you stand against, what again motivated Dr. Hovind to take such a stand? I suggest that is a principle worthy of defending and for this reason, I stand beside this man despite some of the choices that he made in defending it.
So despite your defamation of my character by your comments, I stand firmly in support of one of the most dedicated men of God that I have ever had the privilege of meeting. Like all men, he is not perfect, yet he has a great heart for the salvation of souls of which one in my own family is indebted from his seminars and debates. For this, I will be eternally grateful for this man’s work and I pray that he will receive his just rewards from our heavenly Father for all of the souls that he has lead to heaven. May you learn more of the heart of this man that you have castigated and perhaps you will see why those in the family of God will always have a love and admiration for this man no matter what he has stumbled and fallen on. It is my prayer that he will pick himself up and sooth the wounds in his soul that he now has. I suppose you wouldn’t be able to understand the love of a mother as she visits her son in prison as well.
No my friend, you do not call my character into question by your comments nor anyone else that is willing to show of the love that this man’s work has touched over the years. Character you say!! Perhaps it is you that needs some more lessons in this area.
In kindness,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 6:16pm:Jun 4 Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this at 5:49pm:
“Many bible teachers have interpreted Rev 13.11 to be America. Came up out of the land, a lamb at first appearance but then spoke like a beast and gave power to that other and former beast …..”
Most of those that you will find on the internet espousing the false prophet as America are SDA. They actually do have the correct conclusion, yet they have false premises on which their conclusion is based so that most who study it outside of SDA reject not only their premises, but their conclusion as well. Just because a false cult denegrates the true meaning of a verse, does not actually mean we should reject the conclusion if we could base it on sound biblical and scriptural truths instead. I would recommend doing a very in depth word for word study on Revelation 13: 11-12 and compare line upon line and precept upon precept from God’s Holy Word alone to see if this is an actually biblical truth.
11 “And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, . . .”
Some quick question’s to consider:
1) What is the biblical definition of “another” as used in this context? (i.e. another of the same kind, or one separated and distinct from the first beast)(Hint: see Daniel 2:43)
What is the extent of the first beast’s power?
2) What is the biblical definition of the word “earth?” (Hint, look to Genesis 11:1 & 6.)
3) What other symbolic beast in the Bible has two horns that could be used as a reference for the meaning of this two horned symbol?
4) What is missing from the two horns that is present on the 10 horns of the first beast and what is the underlying significance of its absence? (Hint: see Daniel 2:43)
5) What does the symbol of the lamb signify throughout the entire Bible?
6) Where is the dragon’s/Satan’s seat?
7) What is the language of the people of the dragon where Satan’s seat is? (Hint, think of the historical context of when the Revelations was written)
May God bless your study of this most interesting logic puzzle with profound importance and significance for our times that we now live in.
EndTimes
samuel
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 6:37pm:“agermany
Said this at 8:42pm:
——————————————————————————–
In regards to the argument that his material is not copyrighted, this is what I found on http://www.wikipedia.org website about him and then some:
“In the late 1990s, Hovind created his Dr. Dino web site and began producing articles and information as well as selling his own products — video tapes, books, fossil replicas, etc. — to a mass market. On a portion of his website, it states, “None of the materials produced by Creation Science Evangelism are copyrighted,” but on the same webpage, at the bottom, it states “ALL MATERIAL (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED) IS COPYRIGHT © 2007 CSE MINISTRY” (caps in original).[6] Moreover as for his products, each webpage at his online store reads “ALL MATERIAL (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED) IS COPYRIGHT © 2005 CSE MINISTRY” (caps in original).”
I too wondered about this a few months ago, so I queried it in the comments section on the dr dino web site, submitted my email and got the following response.
RE: DrDino Website – comments@drdino.com
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DrDino Comments to me
show details Feb 5
Hello!
Thank you for your e-mail. The copyright that we carry is very minimal. It states that anyone can copy the seminar for free distribution and it cannot be edited or manipulated. You are still more than welcome to make copies and hand them out to people. I hope this is helpful!
In His Service,
Katie Rudolph
Creation Science Evangelism
krudolph@drdino.com
——————————————————————————–
From: sam.burton@gmail.com [mailto:sam.burton@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:42 AM
Subject: DrDino Website – comments@drdino.com
I guess this is a necessary safeguard so people don’t tamper with the material in an inappropriate way. CSE have personally informed me that I can copy and distribute their material for free with no copyright restrictions.
I also totally agree with Paul’s note:
“[EDITOR’S NOTE: …or … one could question the veracity of Wikipedia, as they appear to monitor and to DE-correct attempts to correct Dr. Hovind’s entry. Where are you placing your faith? Wikipedia is no absolute. Yet you seem to quote it as such. If the God of the Bible could use murders like Moses, David, and Saul of Tarsus then He may be capable of even using folks like me too. Maybe He could use Dr. Hovind as well, hmm? P.A. ]”
Keep your heads up and your eyes on Jesus everyone – And keep the faith for victory is near.
Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Joshua Berndt
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 6:56pm:Does anyone else here make copies of the CSE materials and hand them out? I posted earlier that I have recently bought a DVD burner and have just started handing them out.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Many folks do, in many countries around the globe. The DVDs are copyrighted, true. But the main restriction is that one not SELL copies. You can make and give away hundreds of copies. In fact, please do so!
By the time of the Tribulation there will only be two "religions" left, those who believe the Bible (God's Word), and those who believe human consensus (man's word); belief in evolution is helping to re-coalesce - or to reverse - from Babel (the dividing of peoples), on a religious level. When one takes evolution to heart, whether starting as a Mormon, Catholic, Shintoist, Buddhist, or non-Bible-believing Protestant, it gives them all the same (believed) historical foundation. Subtle, yet effective. It is a step. Later, they'll accept more. "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field." Gen. 3:1a) Use CSE's materials to help educate and thus rescue others. Hosea 4:6a "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." P.A. ]
Janet
Said this on June 5th, 2007 at 8:32pm:Thanks again Sade Tennyson for your post written on June 4th ,6:21 I think it was. I would go visit Kent if I lived in South Carolina if I was allowed. I have written him a few letters. One was returned so I sent it again. I don’t know if he got it because then he moved from Talahasse, Florida to Edgefield, South Carolina. I wrote him again. That’s a good idea to copy your letter so if he doesn’t get it the first time you can just send him off another one. Paul Abramson: Would you give us a list of what we can send? I know we can send paperback books. What else? Do you know if he is going to be in South Carolina for a while? What is the exact court date for his wife so we can pray for her? Everyone, if you didn’t read Sade’s post on June 4th you can do that. Do we know anymore what is happening with his appeal? I am praying for you and your family brother Kent. God truly cares for you. He knows the big picture and we don’t. Your friend in Christ, Janet
[EDITOR'S NOTE: If Dr. Hovind is under "diesel therapy" (evidently a prison slang term) then he could be moved again several more times, without warning. Outside of the BOP (Bureau of Prisons) I don't think anyone knows when/where he'll be moved again. Each prison seems to be different. Have you ever visited a jail or prison? Churches across the country have active prison ministry programs. Here is one excellent organization: http://www.kairosprisonministry.org Here is another: http://www.prisonfellowship.org I have been in several jails and prisons (just visiting); each one is unique. The staff makes a huge difference. Is the chaplain a Christian? Does the warden want to reform or to punish, or some of both? Are the inmates with or without hope? ... Is it a minimal, medium, or maximum security institution?
-- Here are some stated BOP rules:
BOP Inmate Locater: http://www.bop.gov/inmate_locator/index.jsp
BOP Visiting & Mail: http://www.bop.gov/inmate_programs/visiting.jsp
BOP Sending Money: http://www.bop.gov/inmate_programs/money.jsp
Inspecting Mail: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/BOP/e0302/app8.htm
An inmate cannot receive any kind of weapon. A CD or DVD could be broken and its sharp edges used to cut. So no media of any kind. No hardbound books. Softbound books should be okay. But it seems that some prisons limit how many books an inmate can have at any one time. -Through the Chaplain's Office, one could donate books to the prison library, if they have been approved beforehand. Much depends upon the local guards and their policies. I am sorry that I cannot give a more definite answer, as the rules and whether an inmate receives mail on a timely basis, appears to vary by institution. P.A. ]
Samphire
Said this on June 6th, 2007 at 10:44am:Hi Endtimes,
I owe you a couple of posts which I hope to get off to you next week.
Two months ago my wife (bless her) decided to open our garden this weekend to the great unwashed (£4.00 will give access to 27 village gardens – tea and cakes £1.00 extra – all welcome) so those praying for rain please ensure that you mention only Australia and specifically exclude Hampshire in your supplications. The consequence of all this is that I have been working like Shem, Ham and Japheth combined to get the launch ready in time so no energy left for posting. How Adam and Eve managed with a much bigger garden, just the two of them and no power tools or even a wheel barrow is beyond me. But you already knew that.
For the moment I reply to your latest on Revelation 13.
1) Why do you choose Daniel 2:43? There are 16 occurrences of “another`’ in Genesis alone. There must be many hundreds throughout the Bible.
2) Why Genesis 11: 1 & 6.? There are a great many occurrences of the word “earth” throughout the Bible with no preceding adjective but Genesis 11:1 uses the term “whole earth”, a term not used in Rev 13:11.
3. Two horns could mean the two Amorite kings or perhaps the Kings of Media and Persia but more usually a ram. But a ram is just a mature lamb so, if it has to be a different type of symbolic beast, perhaps it is Baal or the wild ox of Deuteronomy? As for the ten horns it could be a red dragon or ten kings depending upon whether you wish to refer to the New or Old Testament. The red dragon could be China or even Wales – neither have a good rugby team and both have an indecipherable language. China, though, invented gunpowder and thus caused “fire to come down from heaven to earth”.
4. I assume that crowns are missing from the two horns. What’s the significance?
5. Lunch?
6. Taking 7 into account this must be Rome. But what is the reference?
7. Rome.
8. I don’t know.
Revelation is a great test for those who suffer cognitive dissonance. Down the ages it has proved to be all things to all men and so it continues. It has nearly sent the JW organisation bonkers. You seem to put your own construction on its verses which you seem very reluctant to make explicit – why?
Kind regards
Samphire
Samphire
Said this on June 6th, 2007 at 10:47am:Hi Paul,
I enjoyed your YouTube lecture although I didn’t think much of your state-of-the-art video display board.
But was that a rifle on the desk?
Kind regards
Samphire
TheWordIsForAll
Said this on June 6th, 2007 at 10:55am:Hello, I live in Aiken South Carolina and I’m a long time listener to brother Hovind. I was wondering if there is anything I can do? I’m quite literally a stone’s throw away from Edgefield, so you can imagine my utter shock when I found out he was sent here. My spirit is overly willing, but not only is my flesh weak but it is quite unguided… What now family in Christ?
Roxy
Said this on June 6th, 2007 at 4:08pm:i have been reading a lot of the entries and i normally don’t have time to post but i had to!
i saw Dr. Hovind for the first time in Chino, Ca. around 5 years ago. I have learned a lot. I have some of his debates, homeschool materials……etc……….
I can honestly say that no other pastor, that i have seen, has been so influential.
I think most of the comments that i have read have been interesting and i respect everyones opinions. i think discussions like these are healthy. i especially like reading what that guy from Australia has to say.
in my opinion nobody has a right to make demands on dr. hovind like to repent or to own up to what he has done. that is between Jesus Christ and Dr. hovind. Aside from that, we are protected under the Constitution’s 5th amendment……the right to remain silent!
I really don’t think we have the full story. personally i don’t need to know the whole story. i still respect dr. hovind and will continue to avidly study his material.
God bless everyone on these blogs…………….whose next???????
1Corinthians10:31
Said this on June 6th, 2007 at 4:21pm:Hey, Mr. Hovind! I’m still keeping you in my prayers, and I hope to get an update soon! Remember that God always hears the cries of the righteous! E.O.
FuManchu
Said this on June 6th, 2007 at 4:59pm:Gorge,
We are all seeking, in that we would all like to discover for ourselves the mysteries of the universe. And I suppose you could call my sojourns on YouTube part of a quest for knowledge – but rather too often they become a quest for entertainment when it comes to creationist videos. It’s a sad comment on the general state of creationists with video cameras that the vast majority of religious videos on YouTube that aren’t unintentionally comic are by Muslims. So if I was ’seeking’, I’d convert to Islam on the strength of YouTube! Fortunately, I’m not about to take the Muslims seriously either, pleasant (if oddly bearded) though they may appear.
Jomar DL
Said this on June 6th, 2007 at 5:53pm:Dr. Hovind DID break some laws. Most of us DO pay our taxes, why must he be exempt? Tax money does a lot of good things for this country. Not all good, for sure, but a lot of good. How does tax evasion help to serve Christ? “Render unto Ceasar” couldn’t be clearer! Surely the US government is MORE JUST that the Roman Empire? Ceasar was a brutal heathen and yet God said “render unto Ceasar.” Even if we do regard out government as brutal and heathen, Christ made it clear that we should pay the darn taxes and be done with it. Dr. H keeps asking “why?”. Maybe the WHY of it is as simple as this: God put him in jail because his tax evasion is rebellious and prideful. I’m not saying that God sanctions the IRS; He probably doesn’t! Dr. H seems not to have not even considered the possibility that God is simply punishing him for the very thing that he’s been convicted of.
trueblue
Said this on June 6th, 2007 at 9:58pm:Mr. Manchu.
Regarding the last few words you stated.
“Anyway, the point about these videos is that Mr Pendleton frequently refers to the questions that many people have about – as you say – beginnings, life, purpose, hope, and the future. And after referring to them, he says something along the lines of “We have answers – powerful answers that are changing many lives”. It genuinely does not seem to have occurred to him that the main criterion for an answer is not its power, nor how life-changing it is, but whether or not it is correct. The fact is that some things don’t have answers yet – and an answer does not become true simply because it is palatable.”
I, too have difficulty with folks that make statements and want you to think that it’s all exactly as they say. I ask many questions, especially to those who are telling others about eternal life.
The thing is, though, that the Bible states that its’ very words have power, and we Christians can speak the Word, and it will do some eternal good. It’s true that many leave it at that and folks feel left hanging. That is not good. Maybe it’s like a child running in front of that car. You yell at him without explaining why he needs to stop. Why do you care to save that child? What will it gain you?
What do these folks gain telling others to get right or get left? Stars in their crown? Though it’s true, most of us understand that we’ll discard our crowns when the time comes. It’s more than that.
I could mention skeptics like C.S. Lewis that became Christians, but you’d tell me of christians that were great and then trashed it. (Maybe).
Do you think the Bible accurate in some of the details of the lives of Paul, Jesus,
or say, Moses?
I’ll not be so lengthy here.
Please don’t be destracted from the Truth of the Bible because of a person or by what method it is being conveyed. The Bible will stand for itself, if one wants to give it a chance.
Elethiomel
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 3:17am:Amigas and Teno – interesting that neither of you addressed the central point of my post; that God might actually disapprove of what your Brother Hovind is doing.
Elethiomel
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 3:21am:Samphire asks:
How Adam and Eve managed with a much bigger garden, just the two of them and no power tools or even a wheel barrow is beyond me. But you already knew that.
—-
no doubt the elephants pulled down the trees, the tyrannosaurs trimmed the hedges (what else would those 30cm long teeth be for?) and the moles arranged the tulips, accompanied no doubt by pleasant muzak provided by the robins.
Jersey Girl
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 10:35am:Dear Endtimes,
This is in reference to your statement “Where are all the Christians when it comes to the testimony of Jesus? Please remember that the spirit of prophecy is His testimony. So, why is it that in the last ten years, I find smaller and smaller interest in prophecy among my brethren? It doesn’t make any sense to me that an “unbeliever” that goes by the name Samphire is frequently the only one that “bites” at my comments on Bible prophecy. That puzzles me greatly and saddens me immensely.”
There are so many people with lenghty posts on this blog that I seldom read them. You, however, I always read. So don’t feel immensely sad, you are reaching out to more people than you think. Just because we don’t comment doesn’t mean we don’t enjoy reading what you have to say. I myself am very fascinated with end times prophecy and daily I see examples that we are living in the end times. Sometimes it frightens me because when I think about it I know in my heart I need to move. New Jersey is going to be a very dangerous place right before and during the tribulation. The government has us all ensnared quite well and it is very difficult to escape. The laws in New Jersey make it illegal to do just about anything, and forget protecting yourself. It’s impossible to get a weapon here except on the black market.
How close do you think we are to the tribulation? I know that no one will really know for sure, but have you heard anything in the news that may indicate if the beast is even alive yet? I have many reasons to believe that he is and that all this will be in our lifetime, what do you think? I have my theory on what the harlot represents, and things that I read in the news are confirming this regularly. I know that most Christians believe we will not see the tribulation, and that may be true, but who’s to say how bad things will be BEFORE the tribulation (the end times could be kind of a tribulation for Christians). Whatever your take is, I am interested. If you want to discuss prophecy I would be more than happy to, either on this blog or by email if you prefer.
Rebecca
Jersey Girl
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 10:37am:FuManchu,
I hope you got my last email (sent it several days ago, I think). Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I do very much enjoy our discussions and I hope to hear from you soon.
Rebecca
StevensMomma
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 11:03am:I’ve have been reading these posts and comments for a while and I am flat out disgusted by the fact that you have chosen to insist you are being persecuted for being a Christian and you are playing the oh why me card. How on earth can you compare yourself to your son-in-law and neice they didn’t chose their fate. Job and Paul, are you kidding me you feel that you are in the same class as they are. NO!!! You are where you are for one reason and one reason only GREED. You made millions off of innocent people and you spoke at countless colleges and I’m ashamed to say that my hard earned money that I used to pay my college tuition went towards your greed and deceitful ways. Did you for a second think of your family…they are suffering as you say because of the evil government when in fact it was you that brought them down with you. Are you proud of dragging your wife along for the ride now she is facing time in prison too. Stop blaming others and take responsibility for yourself “DR. Dino”!!! Its about time you say I was wrong I withheld taxes I was greedy it was me that did this to me. The only thing you are right on is yes God is punishing you but you deserve it! Maybe while you are sitting in prison sucking more money from hard working honest people like myself is treatment, psych perhaps might help you….nah you are to stubborn and hard headed for logic like that.
joshtriangle
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 1:35pm:From PA:
===
Good grief a scan…
[…EDITED…]
Peace.
[EDITOR’S NOTE: Why the series of short “hit messages” against main participants of this blog? Are you really that far above all of us? Your opinions, if educated, are welcome. Your uneducated cheap meanness is not. Don’t seek to pull others down with unsophisticated verbal savagery. Any child can do that. Go elsewhere if that is how you get your jollies. P.A. ]
===
What’d I say?
Well, I trust I must have been misunderstood or rushed something foolish out…
Thanks for the slap in the face.
I’m a bit horrified as my only purpose in life now, as I pray daily, is to be in God’s will, the true God that is, through Jesus Christ, and point others to Him.
I am a murdering, lying, blaspheming, adulterer with a wicked heart, transformed by the blood of the Lamb of God.
I used to think I was a “pretty good guy”… always trying to be good, not hurt anyone… and thank God He showed me the truth.
Please pray for me to be used by the Holy Spirit as He would have, not me!
I definitely do have a conceited nature still in some areas I think, thanks. Whatever it takes God to rid me of it – please do pray for that! I do!
Four years trusting Jesus, in His word daily… perhaps puffing myself up even though I thought I’d been totally broken…?
See that Kent? You don’t need to be behind bars for this kind of lesson.
Working out salvation with fear and trembling, while pointing lost souls who are fighting against the truth, is hard… I cannot do it.
Without God.
Peace.
I truly hate what I was, am saddened by this world, and just want to be with the Lord. God’s will be done.
joshtriangle
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 1:44pm:Update…!!
I am very excited because:
a. I believe God just answered my prayer by having me view an entry from EndTimes on fasting and prayer.
b. It’s been laid on me the past couple of weeks that I haven’t fasted in quite some time, and so I was planning a THREE day fast this weekend!
I have never done more than one day, and I am admittedly nervous about 3… Hence it would appear I will need to totally trust that the Lord will pull me up through these coming 3 days!
I pray that I will be praying (like that?) for all of you, for Kent H, and many others during this time period.
Peace.
GORGE
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 5:02pm:Hi FuManchu,
Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are saying, and apart from the Islam creationist comment, I think much of what you said is spot on.
However.
Kent’s and AIGS do have, to a great extent, substance to their claims. They are first-class and have amongst much else have questioned the verity of what evolution has been free to identify as ‘ undisputed’ without any rebuff, since maybe the theory’s conception.
Unlike my posts, the God of the Christian Faith is straightforward. God want’s to forgive our sin and open the way to a RELATIONSHIP.
As for searching for mysteries, the God of the Bible make a promise; that if you repent and draw near to God, He will draw near to you.
If that does not happen, the bible cannot be true and God is a liar. Thankfully for thickos like myself this is where it lies. Jesus said
“I am the TRUTH”
Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
James 4:8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
God bless you my friend.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 5:14pm:a short essay piece:
In a recent movie about middle-eastern mega oil money and really dirty politics called “Syriana”, George Clooney plays the part of a CIA undercover operative named Robert Barnes; While trying to arrange the kidnap of an Arab Sheik, traveling through Lebanon, Barnes himself is captured (by Hezbollah) and tortured. In the film, the Hezbollah agent, Mussawi, who interrogates the George Clooney character refers to an objective of torture as being to:-
Quote: Mussawi speaking: “The purpose is to get them to recant their beliefs. What if I had to get you [CIA's Barnes] to recant, then what? Because if you have no beliefs to recant, then what? You’re [EDITED] is what.
Bob, you’re gonna give me the name of every person who has taken money from you.”
end quote
The question is, “What does America now stand for?”.
And you FuManChu are the very best answer to that question. You are it. You and Juridical “darling” are the best / the very elite of “United States of America” – you are the future of “United States of America”. You are there to protect and defend. You who have high regard for the rule of Law and you who are seekers of Truth. You who proudly salute the flag and apply science and reason to all your endeavours. You who are college educated and aspiring to contribute so much.
You who see anachronistic Y.E.C. fundies and treat them with such even handedness and egality. You who see Justice being done and rejoice at the erudition of the Jurist attending. Another threat to society is safely behind bars.
You FuManChu, and You “darling”, are the best of “United States of America” today. I call you modern in every way. You really believe in democracy and rule of Law.
So what can I say of my brother George Walker Bush who prayed with brother Arthur Blessitt? Do I believe he spoke under the anointing of the Holy Spirit when (/if), he said, “Its just a God-damned piece of paper”?
Should I suppose “yes”? Where does it leave the united States of America?
Lets suppose brother George is right.
Lets suppose the Supreme Court’s Justices opinions should not ever be “tested” before a Competent Jury [Judges have opinions that are so expert a Jury can just rubber stamp everything they say]. Lets suppose they are right and the Constitution supports abortion and taxing churches and banning coordinated group prayer in schools and removing the ten commandments from public buildings. Lets say the Supreme Court has spoken well.
The Constitution has worked well, the Legislature has worked well, the Chief Justices have spoken well and Juries have been well directed by Judges. And we can trust FuManChu and Juridical “darling” who help to teach us Law, here, free of charge.
And Brother George is right also.
Where does it leave the Church of Jesus Christ? – if democracy has “ruled” it so well thus far why should anyone renege.
In Revelation the woman goes into the wilderness. Is that a place without flags? Is it a place where all law is common law? Is it a place where only Truth survives?
Is it a place where even Aleister Crowley is right? You see as strange as this may seem “Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law” is probably correct with one big proviso: namely, in Him we live and move and have our being. ie. clothed in the Holy Spirit. ie. living through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Satan had to be subtle to catch anyone. I don’t know much about Aleister or New Age anything. I am remarkably unversed in occultisms. But it intrigues me that the specific rules Jesus left are remarkably scant; bare bones even. And something got at Aleister with a “catchy line” – something thoroughly demonic I would suggest. But it had to be close to the truth; or even a limited statement of truth to seduce men with.
If George Walker Bush is right then what?
It is a long bow to draw and maybe you will want to stone me for it but Brother Warocuya might have hit it with “they expect you to lay down and play dead” [I'm paraphrasing again]. STRAMINEUS is a death trap. A mortgage that can never be paid off. Life long Inescapable Debt Peonage.
Never be surety for a CORPORATE ENTITY that doesn’t give you either limited liability or total indemnity – if it doesn’t operate that way then just be an agent or authorized representative [ie. copy the lawyers themselves; all men are equal before the law but some men are more equal than others] There are ways to sign documents to this effect.
Back to the strange Catch 22: the “STATE” cannot force you to be a CITIZEN but they also cannot declare you to be a STATELESS PERSON.
Is this the/ or a, biblical place of refuge?: a wilderness where even Aleister Crowley is technically correct with that one sentence he would have sucked people in with?
Lawful Alien, said I.
Maybe Endtimes would like to say something about the wilderness? Maybe Endtimes knows. Seems I should look a little closer at him.
All Glory to Jesus, Saviour, Judge – the only place of refuge.
I’m sorry if this is long and boring. It certainly ain’t CNN.
agermany
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 6:43pm:You people that follow this man are a bunch of [EDITED] End Times, you definately need to get a job or a hobby. That reply that you posted towards me wasn’t very God-like now was it?
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974, you reference the law in Puerto Rico, why don’t you do us all a favor [...EDITED ...]
Seriously, it doesn’t matter if this man commited murder, you people would find an excuse for it and still follow him. HE IS A CRIMINAL! He knowingly broke the law and profited off of the innocent. [... EDITED ...]
[EDITOR'S NOTE: I'm going to go out on a limb here and hazard a guess that you do not fully and completely agree, at least not entirely, with some persons active on this blog. How warm am I getting? Please save some of the insults ... gratuitous insults ... and use reason and persuasion to make your points, instead.
"...you people would find an excuse for it..." Abraham lied about his wife to save his own skin. Jacob deceived his own Father. Moses killed a man and never turned himself in. David committed adultery and then had her husband killed. The Disciples bickered about who should sit beside Jesus, and Peter even denied Christ three times. Saul of Tarsus hunted down followers of Christ. Martin Luther was an anti-semitic beer guzzler. Come to think of it Noah got drunk too. And you claim that we "follow brother Hovind"? We do nothing of the sort! Nor should we follow those sinners like Abraham, Moses, David, or the Apostle Paul. What a list of lying, cheating, murderous, prejudiced persons! Why, that Kent Hovind was judged guilty by a jury of his peers. Has there ever been such a scallywag!?
John 8:10-11 "When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
Discern. Think wisely. Do not be quick to anger nor quick to judge.
James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
Note that in all of the 66 books of the Bible there are only three main characters who have nothing bad said about them: Joseph, Daniel, and Jesus. Joseph and Daniel were not priests, but government ministers. They both served foreign non-Hebrew governments, in fact. Their faults are not noted. We do not know why, but they are two interesting EXCEPTIONS. Could there be honorable government ministers in that non-Hebrew America as well?
Of course Dr. Hovind has faults. He is a Christian. He is forgiven, not perfect. We ... we don't follow him in the first place. No excuses (for learning from his teachings) are necessary. P.A. ]
nhut
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 8:21pm:Dear StevensMomma,
I am glad you are Stevens Momma and not mine. From the sounds of your post, we should take Kent H and force him to confess that he is guilty. Why don’t we start by pulling out his nails, then perhaps move our way up and pull out his teeth until he confesses, lets just keep on going until he finally admits his guilty as charged. You would’ve been great during the inquisition.
You don’t know his intentions, only he and God knows. He has claimed he is innocent, and from what I have read there are valid points that have been made to support his position.
Regarding greed as the motivator, I think that your assumption may be flawed. I have been following Kent H for almost a decade now and I cannot see evidence that he is greedy. For instance there is no copyright on his stuff. He encourages people to copy his material and distribute it. You can even buy stuff from his site and then copy it and send it back and they will refund you your money. This is not the policy of a greedy man. He would go broke if he was a company!
I don’t agree with what Kent H has done but he seems to feel strongly about his position. I think that this is one of those cases where there are no clear cut answers. I don’t think it is a matter of simply paying your income tax, or render to ‘caesar what is caesar’s”. You wont have two people giving the same answer whether Christian on non. There are other issues that Kent H seems to be fighting, and it seems to be a matter of ones own conscience.
EndTimes
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 9:38pm:“How close do you think we are to the tribulation? I know that no one will really know for sure, but have you heard anything in the news that may indicate if the beast is even alive yet? I have many reasons to believe that he is and that all this will be in our lifetime, what do you think? I have my theory on what the harlot represents, and things that I read in the news are confirming this regularly. I know that most Christians believe we will not see the tribulation, and that may be true, but who’s to say how bad things will be BEFORE the tribulation (the end times could be kind of a tribulation for Christians). Whatever your take is, I am interested. If you want to discuss prophecy I would be more than happy to, either on this blog or by email if you prefer.”
Dear Rebecca,
Thank you for your kind comments. I guess sometimes I forget that it is the Lord that gives the increase and to wait in patience for His timing.
Specific questions on the tribulation:
This is an often repeated question of “how close” are we? That answer as you have eluded is not readily answerable at this time directly, but perhaps indirectly. We could go into discussions on dispensations and other things, but instead, lets look at that question itself. How close are we? There are many that teach what I believe is a false doctrine called “imminent return of Christ.” In this doctrine, they state that there will be no signs preceding the rapture and that it can occur at “any minute.” I personally thus refer to this as the “anytime” rapture. But does the Bible teach that Jesus will come at “anytime” or instead at the “appointed” time. Of course the latter is true. A much misunderstood verse (in my opinion) is Acts 1:7:
Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Many turn around and teach that all of the apostles believed that the Lord would come back in their lifetime. I will try to be brief in stating I don’t believe that to be true. First, in Matthew 24, He had told that apostles that when you see these things occur, you know that your redemption draweth nigh. Now here He instead tells them that they, the apostles, are not to know the times or seasons. Thus, the reference in Matthew 24 will be to those alive at the time these signs occur, and in Acts 1:7, He told the apostles that they would not see it occur.
Look up the definition of the word seasons and you find something very interesting. One of its definitions is “the appointed time.” Right here we should begin to question the “anytime” rapture theories and cherrish instead the “appointed time” rapture view. That is what the Bible actually states without one reference to “imminence.” Peter hints at this in his discourse in II Peter chapter 3 and the thousand years as one day and vice versa. This is in reference to the second coming. In Hosea 6:1-3, the two and three days reference can only be literally true if it is referring to the definition of Psalm 90:4 and II Peter 3:8.
Secondly, the issue in the doctrine of “imminence” that they claim that the rapture will have no “signs” preceding it. Not true, the entire passages of Revelation chapters two and three must be fulfilled prophetically before the rapture verse of Revelation 4:1. So for Peter or Paul to expect His return in the age of the apostles (church of Ephesus time period) then the fulfillment of the remaining 6 church ages would not have even started to be fulfilled. If they did expect Him in their lifetime, then what did the reference in 3:8 mean in relation to His coming?? Many will probably debate these statements, yet they need to consider all of the verses concerning our knowledge of His coming. Specifically:
Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
If there are no signs to guide us as to how close we are, then how could we see the day approaching?
I Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
This very plainly states that the brethren, or the believers will not be taken by surprise at the rapture. Even though no man can know the “hour or the day,” we will nevertheless be able to recognize the season in which it will occur. I believe that is very soon myself, but no man again could possibly quantify that specifically other than to say keep the upward look and preach the gospel while we still have time. Now, going full circle, in Matthew 24, there were several “signs” of a period of time called “the beginning of sorrows.” There are many different suggestions on when this will be, before the rapture, early tribulation or otherwise. I believe that these same signs will be present just prior to the rapture and further manifested in the early tribulation. If someone wishes to adamantly castigate that idea, it is not one that I have absolute definition from the Scriptures, but I do have some references that suggest this ( I will defer that discussion at this time).
So, another long and convoluted answer to state we need to be looking for the rapture with patience and expectation. Look up the number of references to “watch, wait, patient, looking, expectant” found in the NT verses referring to His second coming. The first 4 words are all defined in one manner or another by the word “expectant.” So that is what I teach, not the imminent or anytime rapture, but instead the expectant or appointed time rapture. This has much biblical evidence to support its truth while the other does not.
Definition: Expectation, To wait for, To look for.
So, we should be waiting and looking and occupying until He returns at the “appointed” time. Just because no man will know that time by the day or hour, only the Father knows, does not mean He can come at “anytime.” He will come on the appointed day already known to the Father. Watch and wait and look my friends and that day will not come upon you as a thief in the night.
In kindness,
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 9:46pm:Jun 6 FuManchu
Said this at 4:59pm:
Gorge,
“We are all seeking, in that we would all like to discover for ourselves the mysteries of the universe. And I suppose you could call my sojourns on YouTube part of a quest for knowledge – but rather too often they become a quest for entertainment when it comes to creationist videos. It’s a sad comment on the general state of creationists with video cameras that the vast majority of religious videos on YouTube that aren’t unintentionally comic are by Muslims. So if I was ’seeking’, I’d convert to Islam on the strength of YouTube! Fortunately, I’m not about to take the Muslims seriously either, pleasant (if oddly bearded) though they may appear.”
I agree, I wish there were more well done creationist videos. For a price you can see many things. The sad state of affairs is that the Islamic religion seems to care more for converts that cash and the Christians seem to care more for cash than converts. Not a pleasant day of judgement for either group but for different reasons. Just because you are zealous, it won’t help if you are also dead wrong on what you are zealous for. Quite sad state of this world at hand.
May the church of Christ our Saviour on this earth wake up to the late date we are in and ardently preach His Word to all creatures. (Myself included in this admonition.)
Harriet
Said this on June 7th, 2007 at 11:08pm:June 6 quote TheWordIsForAll
Said this at 10:55am:
——————————————————————————–
Hello, I live in Aiken South Carolina and I’m a long time listener to brother Hovind. I was wondering if there is anything I can do? I’m quite literally a stone’s throw away from Edgefield, so you can imagine my utter shock when I found out he was sent here. My spirit is overly willing, but not only is my flesh weak but it is quite unguided… What now family in Christ? quote
My advice to you is to do as Jesus recommends in Matthew 25: 36 . Go visit Dr. Hovind. After you know the prison’s visitation rules, please call CSE office and get a message to the Hovind family. You would not want your visit to compete with any of their visits, or with unknown relatives/friends of the Hovinds who may also live in SC. You will be a blessing from the Lord. Prisoners sometimes need an “approved visitors list” and you may (or may not) need to be added to this list. Visitation may roll around for only 30 minutes once a week….????
StevensMomma
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 8:17am:Dear NHut,
Thank you so much for saying how happy you are that I am not your mother. I did not imply that we needed to force him to claim he is guilty. I am simply stating the fact that he needs to stop saying he is in prison unjustly and that he is being persecuted simply because he is a Christian and in the same likeness of Paul. What Mr. Hovind did was wrong and yes I do believe it was greed if you read the same documents about his case that I did maybe you would see it in a different light but maybe not. The great thing about this country is that people like you and I can have much different opinions. I still believe greed was a major factor he made millions and before the govt can and seized everything he had his wife slowly deplete their account and stash cash away if it all belongs to God then he should have let God’s will be done, Right? Paying taxes is what the issue is not his belief system, paying taxes is something every US Citizen has to do. Ive not heard of Billy Graham, Jerry Fallwell, Lee Roberson or countless other men in the ministry claim that they are above paying their taxes because it all belongs to God. Plain and simply he did not pay his taxes he was given plenty of opportunity to right the wrongs here he choose not to. Do I believe in punishment for wrong actions absolutely, discipline is a fact of life. Like a child when they do things that are wrong we need to correct their wrong behave, God does the same with us His children He discipines them.
praybird
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 8:17am:In our advanced technological wonders of this day, we still can’t control the air we breathe, we still can’t control the orbit of our earth, nor how much the sun warms our earth. Think about it, there is no scientist of our day that can tell us how to keep the air on our earth. If you really think about it, us humans are really helpless, we are living on a dirt ball moving in a orbit around a firey ball. We humans are made of the dirt of the earth, we are complex to say the least, a human eye ball is so complex, what about our circulatory system, our brains? In Proverbs it says the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom, true wisdom acknowledges and has a reverential fear of our Creator God. Also the Bible says mans wisdom is foolishness unto God. The God who made our universe, the earth and all that there is, we can’t even begin to fatham it. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. Also Jesus said blessed are they who have not seen but yet believe. No we haven’t seen God nor Jesus, but yet we believe, by faith Abraham was blessed because he believed and trusted the Lord. In Romans it says doesn’t even nature teach you of the existance of the Lord? Look at the bumble bee, there are so many examples proving an intelligent design. No one believed the playtapus untill they had a live one. You cannot go wrong believing and trusting in the Lord. The best part is that God loves us. We will never understand everything but we know that over and over again the bible states that those who place their Trust in the Lord will not be put to shame. Monetary success is not always Godly success. There are warnings to those who preach that gain is Godliness, from such turn away, in the book of Timothy. Noah was a preacher of Righteousness, he stayed faithful to the Lord, and he and his family and their wives were spared. Beware of those who propogate vain philosophies,and unbelief. The Lord is able to keep that which we have committed unto him against that day. I don’t know about the future but I know who holds the future and I know he holds my hand. We will continue to support and pray for the Hovinds, we appreciate you Bro. Hovind. All the work you did in sharing your faith and teachings. By the way, I was living in SanDiego in the early 1980’s and I remember the newspaper having an article about an expedition going to Africa because of reportings of something like a dinosaur there, and I read the article, they didn’t see the dinosaur but they heard it. Because of how dense the jungle is and it was a tremendous effort to just stay alive from one hour to the next, it was next to impossible to even go as far as they did. It would be awesome if another expedition could get a film of one before they die out. Love from Don and Brenda
Inna Viller
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 10:09am:Dear Mr.Hovind,
Hi and love in Christ from Ternopil, Ukraine!
I am completing translating Seminar #1 into Ukrainian with a big help and coordination of Paul Abramson. Another person from Ternopil, Natalie Malanuk will proofread my translation before we send the final copy to Mr.Abramson. I am excited about this project, and every time I translate what you teach in your seminar and every time I listen to your seminars, blesses me immensely and reminds me of the main point of your message.
Let me paraphrase a part of your message: How come that the aggression around God’s Word and Creation Science ministries is so intense comparing to the lies and fixtion of evolution that is taught in the educational establishments… The lies and fixtion that we all pay taxes for.
The government does not support so aggressively the Creation Science comparing to the support they give to Evolution to be taught at schools. Actually, this a shame for all of us Christians (especially in the USA with all the freedoms you have had historically) that evolution was tolerated. Better to say this is our loss as Christians that we are and were silent about those false teachings in schools that are taken as the truth… You fight the battle, Mr.Hovind for all of us who had to be more active in this war of two worldviews. Now it is all confused and stired up by the laws that evidently protect more the worldly opinions that reject absolutes. You can make laws that are aproving homosexual marriages and justify them nowadays with no problems, but you have to fight and pay a high cost as a criminal for proclaiming a simple godly truth that His Word and His Works have to be taught. Creation Science does not have such a big financial support from the Government and even from sosciety where Christians are a part of them… Even Christians have to pay taxes for evolution to be taught at schools… IS THAT FAIR to what they believe? Doesn’t it contradict their faith in Christ, while they pay taxes for the plan of Antichrist? We are to pay taxes, indeed, but we are to be aware and in agreement with our values what our taxes are used for… How can I support something that contradicts my faith and believes? If it is a true democracy in the USA, let atheists pay taxes for evolution, and Christians pay taxes for teaching Creation Science… I guess it is very simple. The world excpects Christians to be humble to the laws, and it should be that way. However, the world should also know that it is a crime against the Lord when Christians pay money for the false and anti-God religion like evolution. Sometimes the laws and regulations cannot provide the true Spirit, if it is not interepreted by rightous and Godly lawmakers. Then the laws become a manipulating tool in many cases, and they also can become laws that support crimes and immorality… In our case, the rights of Christians are violated in this country by pushing evolution in the educational establishments… IAM FROM THE POST SOVIET COUNTRY AND BELIEVE ME I CAN EASILY RECOGNIZE THESE ANTI-GOD DYNAMICS IN THE SYSTEM.
Mr.Hovind, you hit the target with your teachings.
Let me write the following allegory in response to your allegory:
“Dear Ax,
You chopped and chopped and chopped the woods. I saw you doing it allheartedly. You remember those guys that once video taped you at work? These video tapes are still “chopping” for you! You are still chopping the wood on those tapes and the wood you chop is still good for the Fire I am going to make.
You need some rest, my dearly Ax. You need new perspectives how to do even a better job. You would not get them if you continue the same path over and over again. You have done a great job and it has been compeltd now with excellence. You needed the fresh wind and new oil for your edge, and a new shaperner stone. I will make you even sharper and stronger. You know why? There is even a harder wood than what you were chopping before. For that very reason my hand needs a new ax handle to hold you. Through what I was able to do through you all these years I saved many people for eternity (you won’t be able to see how many till my second return), so they would not be burnt in the Fire I am making for the Judgement Day; the Fire that you have been chopping the wood for.
There will be a time and you will get it all together what I was doing. I can tell you about one of them now: there are many axes being made in my workshop right now… according to YOUR measurements and parameters… I created you, my dearly Ax, and with many years of your great and faithful service I saw that “It IS very good”… So I decided to multiply your kind and your trend
Now you just trust me and keep your peace. It is time to rest for you and wait for that fresh oil, a new ax handle and a new sharperner stone that I will send you.
My love and all My promises to you,
Your Master Woodsman.
amigas
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 11:24am:Dear Elethiomel;
It has occurred to me that God may not like what Dr. Hovind is doing, and it has also occurred to me that he may be more inline with the will of God than I am. Knowing what a government can do to the perfect Jesus leads me to believe that even if someone spends their entire life in prison doesn’t mean they are out of the will of God. Therefore, I am not waiting to see what the courts decide to determine if I will be a Christian brother to Dr. Hovind.
Dear Endtimes;
The topic of endtimes is not my specialty although I am very interested in the subject and have made it about half way through the material you have sent me. On this subject I am a true novice and will probably not comment on this subject, for now, except to ask questions. Never weary in doing good. I do appreciate your comments on this blog and remember, wasn’t it Elijah that thought he was by himself and yet God had 7000 men who had not bowed or sacrificed to the false gods.
You Brother in Christ
Gene Schmeling
CreationCD
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 2:00pm:Joshua Berndt
Said this at 6:56pm:
Does anyone else here make copies of the CSE materials and hand them out? I posted earlier that I have recently bought a DVD burner and have just started handing them out.
*********************************************************************************
Hey Joshua,
GO FOR IT !
Sorry I’ve been gone so long and I realy haven’t even caught up reading through past blogs yet. School just got out and we had not passed out DVD’s at several local schools this year. So I’ve been swamped.
We try to pass out 200 (best I’ve done so far is 180) DVD’s at 5 local schools every year along with Chick Tracks (www.chick.com). We stand on the public sidewalk outside of the school and pass them out. I also give out DVD sets to every Sunday School kid, missionary and Bible College student that passes through our Church and I even take a couple DVD’s out with me for door to door soulwinning. I had a great responce when my kids were in Charter School and we passed 150 out at the Montery Aquarium Charter School day.
Make nice lables for the DVD’s (Walmart sells 120 blank labels for $10) and include the same copyright wording and information that CSE puts on the DVD’s. Don’t be dissapointed if you don’t get any positive feedpack and people even get angry at what your doing or when they tell you it’s against the law. Check with the California Law Association or whoever your church uses, it’s OK.
I started after I heard Dr. Hovinds 1997 seminars in which he said, “Everyone can do something, even the worst of you can serve as bad example. If you can’t shoot, then carry ammunition.”
I used to pass out CD-ROM’s with Dr. Hovind’s entire seminar set on them with a 600 point outline so you could search for a topic and jump right to the place in the video. I have asked Dr. Hovind on three occassions when I went to hear him if I could pass out these CD’s after his seminar, even though he was selling seminars on his table in the back and he always said yes.
Kids (and adults) need this imformation.
Got to go! Good luck!
CreationCD
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 2:12pm:I hope this isn’t too off base, but part of it deals a little with Dr. Hovind.
I tried to copy just a small portion of the Article.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/06/08/genesis-nemesis
… Earlier this month, Dr. Scott spoke to about 150 people in the Reakirt Auditorium of the architecturally rich Cincinnati Museum Center,
… Dr. Scott was affable, but with a sometimes sarcastic bite. For example, she took a cheap shot at a creationist who was put in jail for income tax fraud (a few weeks ago he was placed in solitary confinement), and the crowd giggled with glee at the man’s plight.
… with AiG’s Creation Museum so close to the site of the lecture, Dr. Scott and some in her audience brought up the museum several times during the Q&A session. Attempting to sound an alarm, she also brought up the threat of new creation museums in Arkansas and Montana, plus ICR’s museum near San Diego …
Our local paper had a favorable article about the AiG Museum and the protest and alarms that several “Groups of Scientists” are raising about it. The Article pints out that their objections could as well be used against the Ripley’s Believe It or Not Museum or the Area 51 Museum, but no one’s ever fought these museums only Creation Museums.
Seadecker
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 2:42pm:Listen…. The bickering here is crazy….. Lets look at the facts.
1. Kent is in jail because he would not allow the Fed / State to have sovereignty over his ministry. Via. 501c3 Status.
2. The Fed / State had no right to get involved. (see USC amendment 1 / Study “seperation of church and state”) Kent’s ministry was already exempt from taxes, because it was a church ministry.
3. The Fed / State didn’t like it.
4. The Fed / State “punished” him for not “bowing” to the Fed / State.
Everybody keeps whining “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s,…” Which I TOTALLY AGREE WITH. However if that is true, it is safe to say the above text is also saying “Do Not Render unto Caesar the things which are Not Caesar’s,…” You see the assets were GODS assets, not “Caesar’s”.
Grace And Peace.
EndTimes
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 4:02pm:agermany
Said this at 6:43pm:
“You people that follow this man are a bunch of [EDITED] End Times, you definately need to get a job or a hobby. That reply that you posted towards me wasn’t very God-like now was it?”
Dear agermany,
Let’s review what it was that I responded to in the first place from your comments.
“All of this came about by simply googling Kent Hovind’s name. IS this truly someone that you people want to follow biblically? If so, you may want to question your faith and character!”
So, you showed up on this blog apparently for the purpose of castigating Dr. Hovind and his supporters. As for Dr. Hovind, you will need to stand in line for those wishing to castigate this man that I assure you has enough self analysis and critique of his own actions and the consequences of his own actions that you nor no one else need apply for the job.
As for his supporters, as has been pointed out by several people, we do not FOLLOW Dr. Hovind, we follow our risen Saviour. So likewise does Dr. Hovind, so that makes us all part of the family of God. If my son committed a terrible crime, I would be greatly saddened, but my love for him would not diminish one bit. As for Dr. Hovind’s guilt or innocence, that is not for me to judge whether I agree with his actions or not. So, if I were in the same situation, I would greatly cherish the love and support of those that had supported me previously. Thus, there are many here that shall stand firm in love and support of a man that has had a great impact personally on many here today.
I truly feel sorry for someone filled with the hate you apparently have for us. That hate will have no harm on me or anyone else, yet for you it places you in great dangers of eternal judgement. I am sure that there are many praying for you now that the Lord will reach out to you and heal your heart of this hate. Would it be that Dr. Hovind himself shall most certainly likewise pray for you when he is able to read your comments. I have reread my comments to you and I believe that my comments to you were quite constrained given the insult that you threw at us first. My intent and purpose was to get you to look inward at your own failings that you will likewise need to repent of on the day of judgement just as will ALL men.
With the love of Christ,
EndTimes
P.S. The Lord has taken away my day job and still provided for me and my family so I don’t need to look for another one at this time thank you. Hobby you say, I already have one defending the faith against men like you that would attack it.
GORGE
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 4:46pm:Hi joshtriangle
I for one remember how it used to be real blessing reading the long-standing and linking discussion between yourself and Fu. I seem to remember Fu passing comment on how he could discuss various different points with you without it turning into an quarrel.
It’s a real blessing when our Father God instructs us on how we can act to resolve difficulties. In regards to your last post I am really pleased for you, that you believe God had spoken to you over the issue you mentioned.
God bless Bro.
Inna Viller
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 6:01pm:Dear JR Turner,
The 4 minute Devvy’s Radio material was really good and her article too. Such a powerful study and observations she did! Thank you for sharing those links…
Dear Seadecker,
I totally agrre with your last posting, and would like to remind, too for all of us: we as Christians have to be aware what we submit ourselves to; WE ARE NOT TO SUBMIT OURSELVES TO EVIL…. Devvy’s 4 minute radio program provided by JR Turner has proved that nowadays even Government can be wrong and misuse its power and authority, in tax policy particularly.
We ARE NOT TO SUBMIT OURSELVES TO THE EVIL AND EVIL DOERS. WE have the Spirit of descernment.
Jesus Christ broke the rules and traditions that were legal in the Jewish culture, yet there was not life left in them. Let us remember how He was blamed for healing people on the Subbath; or collecting wheets in the fields…
The laws by themselves without the True Spirit, the Spirit that gives people true Life in righteousness – can be turned against the people themselves, against the life values…
Dr.Hovind’s case is less about the tax issues, it is more about how the corrupted system can twist any rightous case hipocritically, hiding their own evil doings that are anti-Constituationsl, as Devvy says…
Love and blessings to all… and be filled with the Spirit of God
Inna.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 8:15pm:Dear Saints,
just a quick addendum,
brother George at the White House purportedly said “Its just a god-damned piece of paper”.
About names and appellations this helps to illustrate a very important point.
Should the official transcript of what sounded like god be written up with a capital “G” or a small “g”, or should the whole thing be corporatized and “STATE” controlled as in the “United States of America’s own “GOD”".
you see “God” could be read as a proper noun or it could be read as a generic abstract title; as in “there are many gods but there is only one God”
Should we ask brother George if he meant?
a. It is just a piece of paper which God [or "god"] has damned, or
b. Its just a god-damned-piece-of-paper [where the subject noun is one compound hyphenated word and could be given a distinct and unique definition]
There is also an important corollary to the assertion:
If it is just
a God damned piece of paper
or God-damned-piece-of-paper
or God-damned piece of paper
or god-damned piece of paper
or god-damned-piece-of-paper
there are other permutations any good mathematician will point you too but I haven’t the space
[[you see what we need are English teachers as well as Lawyers who believe in the rule of Law [ha ha ],, we also need rhetoricists]]
but the inevitable corollary is
It is just a god-damned congress; and a god-damned senate; and a god-damned presidential office
for they all assume their positions under the auspices/ imprimatur of that “god-damned” piece of paper; UNLESS!!
unless you believe that democracy and the popular vote creates the latitude to surplant that original “constitution” document?
big question that one. and as “darling” oft asks “who decides”?; perhaps the people with the guns, for who could ever trust in the whims of a Jury – unlearned men, possibly non college people, possibly fickle in their ways.
God, the real one Bless America.
land of the free and the brave,
land of government “..of the people, by the people, for the people …”
well they shot Abraham Lincoln didn’t they? What would Abraham say about this generation?
cheers to everyone and special thanks the agermany, I too have a very natural oft expressed predilection for the expletive – I’m Australian
and Endtimes; could you please write up “wilderness”, and to where exactly people should flee? your thoughts will be welcome.
absolute
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 9:08pm:Dr. Hovind,
I’m sorry, truely for your present circumstances. I’ll be looking for your comments in the future. I pray that you are okay. As for those on this site meaning to hurt. Why do you do this?
The Welders Wife
Said this on June 8th, 2007 at 9:46pm:Inna Viller:
Hey Lady! My computor crashed & I lost your e-mail address so please e-mail me.{Pepper hasn’t been sprayed by any skunks so far this year!} I agree with you totally!!
Years ago we lived at the entrance to a community called ‘Sand Canyon’. One afternoon a fire started at the back of the canyon. After a while there was a police blockade on Sand Canyon right next to our house.From what I remember, they were young cops with attitudes, & unwilling to listen to anybody’s grievences. A lady I knew & her husband had just driven out of the canyon to take some friends to a base ball game. When they realized that there was a fire, they started to go back up the canyon to go get their 3 kids. The young cops wouldn’t listen to them. On the other side of our house, beyond our yard there was a wash [dry river bed] that went up the canyon. They quietly parked their car & walked up the wash to rescue their kids. The cops never even saw them. The fire burned for a couple days & was eventually put out. Later the dad went back to get the car. Then the cops arrested him & claimed that he had been biligerant with abusive speach towards them. It wasn’t true! The lady was a member of our Women’s Bible Study. She was not allowed to tell us anything about the court case until after it was over. She had to keep silent on the whole issue. It is the same way with Dr Hovind. We don’t know his side of the story, & he is not allowed to tell us yet because the court case is still pending.
Take care beloved sister!
The Welder’s Wife.
Jude 3!
JR Turner
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 1:21am:MKJV MATTHEW 18: 15 ¦ ÒBut if your brother shall trespass
against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him
alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But
if he will not hear [you], take one or two more with you, so
that in [the] mouth of two or three witnesses every word
may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them,
tell [it] to the church. But if he neglects to hear the church,
let him be to you as a heathen and a tax-collector.
KJV – LUKE 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, [ye] lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
darling
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 7:39am:Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 said this at 5:57pm Jun6:
“I have been waiting for “darling” to answer JR Turner’s comments that “there is no law” such as might be said “United States Citizens are required to ……””
Asked and answered. Many times.
But this has led me to a deeper understanding. When Mr. Hovind complains that the IRS hasn’t responded to his questions, this is what he is talking about:
Ask a question.
Receive an answer.
Ignore answer, restate the question.
Repeat ad nauseum.
“To “darling”, I thought I had made myself clear. Murder laws did not need….”
And I though I had made myself clear. Again, if you really don’t like that example, just choose a different law of general application. Why did you ignore that?
The same principle applies, and my point is valid: the laws of one country can can potentially apply to anyone in the world. If you go to America and break the speed limit, the laws apply to you, whether you are a citizen, non-citizen, entered the country legally or illegally, are a resident or a visitor.
“Your assertion that Congress passed tax laws that apply to me, without exemption, is an example of the best of your logical and deductive skills.”
What part of the incredible complex logical deduction
every indivudual means every individual
do you have a problem with?
“I assert they “Congress” have no power or jurisdiction over me or 5 billion other people on earth.”
That would depend on whether or not you have taxable income.
“Thus it seems if table 26 imposes a tax on the “taxable income” then the IRS should be sending out letters to “The Taxable Income” and if no-one by that name lives at your address then you should mark them “Return to sender”.”
But I only eat strawberries in May.
“if you do a quick google search you might find that the IRS is domiciled in Peurto Rico…
The “IRS” “it seems”, as a specific entity, was not created by law.”
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#IRS
Seadecker Said this at 2:42pm Jun8:
“Listen…. The bickering here is crazy….. Lets look at the facts.
1. Kent is in jail because he would not allow the Fed / State to have sovereignty over his ministry. Via. 501c3 Status.”
The fact is that 501(c)(3) status would have made no difference to Mr. Hovind’s case.
absolute
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 7:41am:Kent, awaiting your next post…Many are praying for you.
praybird
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 8:24am:Please take the time to read this post, Didn’t our forefathers fight with everything in them to keep taxes from being imposed on the people? Isn’t that why the people left England was to get away from taxation and religious control? Didn’t they go to America to be free? Remember the Land of the free and the Home of the Brave? And I wonder if the historical account of the Boston Tea Party is in the textbooks still, it was in the 60’s don’t know about now. ((((((Who started the IRS?
Why did the IRS come into existance? Please when you answer this keep it simple. And when someone breaks a monetary law such as the IRS, why do they spend time in prison? Why can’t there be restitution be made instead?
When we are having an epidemic of rapists and child molesters and murderers why put a man in prison whose teaching is making a difference in peoples lives and changing them for the good?
I am very concerned with the fact that Judges are ordering the Ten Commandments being taken out of courthouses,,, abortion, and homosexuality being paraded as something good and holy. “Woe unto them that say evil is good and good is evil.
And don’t forget pornography and sexual exploitation is a billion dollar business and it seems to me that bandaids are being applied in our society instead of millions of people being outraged of this.
And we wonder why our communities are falling apart, and I HAVE TO PUT THIS IN CAPS, OUR CHILDREN ARE SEXUALLY ACTIVE AT 12 YEARS OLD AND OLDER, THEY SEEM TO ENCOURAGE THIS AS SOMETHING NORMAL IN SCHOOLS. I will tell you now I wish they had never made abortion legal, Lives have been destroyed, There is guilt with sin, and the wages of sin is death. We wonder why there are so many people depressed, and they hand out antidepression pills like candy. Would to God we had preachers of Rightiousness that call sin for what it is SIN. and That God came to redeem man to himself, through Jesus Christ the sinless one. That we can repent and turn and believe in him and be saved. Do you realize how many depressions would leave? I don’t believe in Bipolar. In the 60’s there was no such word. Yes there are mental illnesses that are real, because the brain can malfunction, but Sin brings depression, it is really a conscience thing that God puts in us to turn to him. But there is a searing of the conscience after while. And my last question, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT MANY OF OUR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS STAY MARRIED FOR 50 YEARS OR MORE? I can answer this one, because of MORALS AND ABSOLUTES, BECAUSE MOST DIDN’T HAVE SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE, THEY RESPECTED EACH OTHER AND HONORED EACH OTHER. In Malachi 2 it says that God hates divorce, why does he hate it?
I will stand by the fact that Dr. Hovind has stated that he wasn’t at liberty to explain himself in all of this and in the future, when he was at liberty, he would. That is good enough for me. And lastly, Dr. Hovind stood up and exposed the lies about evolution and lies in the textbooks, of which most if not all of us have seen, the (millions and millions of years) in those books. I was taught evolution in school in the 60’s as fact and truth. Is there any wonder that the hippie and rebellious generation started when they took prayer out of schools, taught evolution, and passed abortion???? I thank God for the truth, and that Kent Hovind has stood up against so many who have allowed this deception and lies to go on without accountability. Many are angry because he used common sense and simple logic to expose these myths and lies.
Many have expressed their concern on this blog in the direction America has turned. We need a moral revival a turning back to the Lord in humility and repentance. May God have mercy on us and America. from Don and Brenda We continue to pray for the Hovinds and lift them up daily.
Inna Viller
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 12:32pm:Dear Welders Wife,
Hi and great to hear from you. Do you know that I am in your country since Wednesday? Please, wait for my e-mail. I wondered why you were silent, my dearly CSE inspired and isnpiring sister!
I am praying for Kent Hovind this morning and for the great ending of this whole story.
I am praying for those who participate in the cseblogs discussion.
I am praying for God to refine the spirit of sarcasm and cinicism among some participants here into the spirit of godly inspiration to see the bigger picture beyond logical dogmas.
Dogmas with no true spirit of life and love are only dry dogmas that the pharasies were filled with.
What religious dogmas with no love to people and with no ability to see a specific case of men’s life did do to pharasies???? Hah? Their hearts became hard as a rock. They turned into cinics. They were full of themselves and full of their own self-rightousness. They were full of hatred to Jesus when He seemed to contradict their teachings…
THE LETTER OF LAW with NO TRUE SPIRIT can turn us into those PHARASIES, you guys. With our own cinicism to those who are doing God’s work today we still are nailing Christ to the cross.
Did you know that the spirit of cinicism and sarcasm is not of God? The lawyers nowadays can be full of themselves, too. They can be smart and wonderful articulate debators in many cases and win the cases at the courts (they know they will get a BIG CASH reward), yet the Spirit of the Lord and His elegant Love are away from their evaluations and judgements. Logics wins, but spirit fails… It is not the way it should be… Jesus Christ was sentenced to death because the Spirit of Life and Rightousness was absent in the legacy system. There was not a spot of crime on Him, but He was a religious criminal in the eyes of pharasies. The people were willing to kill the One who challenged their (false) religion, religion that was enabling them to sin and love sin…. , however, Jesus did not harm any of them personally, by the exception of the pride and ambitions of pharasies who exhalted THEMSELVES on the throne of justice, authority and rightousness… And who eventually DID WHISPERED (like Satan originally did in the Garden of Eden) into the emperor’s ear what to do to Christ… THE DEATH SENTENCE for BREAKING Jewish Laws and Traditions…for claiming that He was sent by God…
WE ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE ETERNAL DEBATE NOW, YOU GUYS… AND HOVIND”S CASE has ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES for both of those who FILLED WITH THE LORD”S SPIRIT and those WHO ARE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT OF CINICISM AND SARCASM THAT IS NOT OF GOD… Just different eternal consequences they will reap…
You know the way to grasp the Lord’s case??? It is your heart filled with His Spirit!!! HE is looking into your heart!!! The heart may be unseen for many, but for God only… While logical statements and brilliant lip service is seen for many, the heart is difficult to bee seen… However, the Holy Spirit if you are filled with Him will reveal your heart for many — and will show the degree of love and mercy you have for others, beyond your lawyers degree and knowledge…
Dr Kent Hovind doesn’t fight against the blood or flash of the wrong doers… but against their evil spirit…that is not of Christ…
Do you know that Christians have spiritual authority to judge the cases differently from those that are of the world? CHRIST HAS GIVEN THEM THAT AUTHORITY, because from the times Christ sent us the Comforter the Holy Spirit, we see and judge things differently like spiritual beings.
I believe that this is the very reason why we have disagreements around Hovind’s case… Kent Hovind and his followers see things differently here — the way the Holy Spirit reveals that truth for them they take a stand for… That’s why the laws by worldly standards cannot judge properly this spiritual case because they do not understand spiritual matters. Therefore, they punish Hovind…
djhouk
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 12:54pm:Seadecker Said this at 2:42pm:
Listen…. The bickering here is crazy….. Lets look at the facts.
1. Kent is in jail because he would not allow the Fed / State to have sovereignty over his ministry. Via. 501c3 Status.
2. The Fed / State had no right to get involved. (see USC amendment 1 / Study “seperation of church and state”) Kent’s ministry was already exempt from taxes, because it was a church ministry.
My dear Seadecker,
I will assume from your comments that you have not followed the case and are not at all familiar with the reasons Mr. Hovind is in
jail. I suggest you view some of the earlier comments in this blog that provide more detail. But I will help:
1. Kent Hovind’s 501c3 status or lack thereof is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the 58 charges of which he was convicted. I suggest you review the indictment.
2. There seems to be a lot of confusion about church ministry income tax liability. The only tax-related charges Kent was convicted of were related to failure to withhold payroll taxes for his employees. This has nothing to do with the ministry being liable for taxes; the taxes being witheld are those due by Kent’s employees. In fact, witholding implies nothing about liability; if the employees are not liable, they can file to get all of the monies returned.
3. The majority of the charges of which Kent was convicted (and the majority of the 10 years Kent will be in prison) were not related to taxes; but, rather, to his violation of banking laws in an attempt to conceal his failure to withold payroll taxes.
Ekkman
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 1:43pm:Ekkman
If You Think Bush Is Evil Now…
Paul Craig Roberts / VDARE.com:
“The war in Iraq is lost. This fact is widely recognized by American military officers and has been recently expressed forcefully by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the commander of US forces in Iraq during the first year of the attempted occupation. Winning is no longer an option. Our best hope, Gen. Sanchez says, is “to stave off defeat,” and that requires more intelligence and leadership than Gen. Sanchez sees in the entirety of our national political leadership: “I am absolutely convinced that America has a crisis in leadership at this time.”[ US can forget about winning in Iraq: top retired general, AFP, Sunday June 3, 2007]”
I thought this was an interesting article. No matter how big America is, when you play with sin like she is doing, you are going to fall and the bigger you are the harder you fall. I see as I am driving around bumper stickers that say, ‘God bless America”. I start thinking, ‘what god are they talking about? The one true God most definitely will NOT bless America with all the sin and depravity that she is living in.” My bumper sticker says, “God will bless America when America turns back to God”.
Does anyone with a mind really think that the God of the bible is going to bless America when she justifies abortion, perverted sex from sodomy to adultery to fornication, wars that are against the Constitution. Or is it stepping on little nations because the UN tells us to? Even though those who are in power tell us that we are losing over in Iraq as we will everywhere else. We are the most evil nation on earth today based on the light we have received from God that we have ignored now. We have turned our backs on him and now we must fall if repentance does not come and it doesn’t look like it is, coming that is.
I agree with
Jun8
Inna Viller
Said this at 6:01pm:
“The laws by themselves without the True Spirit, the Spirit that gives people true Life in righteousness – can be turned against the people themselves, against the life values…
“Dr.Hovind’s case is less about the tax issues, it is more about how the corrupted system can twist any right(e)ous case h(y)pocritically, hiding their own evil doings that are anti-“Constitution(a)l as Devvy says…
Love and blessings to all… and be filled with the Spirit of God
Inna.”
It looks like the quote below fits Kent Hovind…
“Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.”
-Benjamin Franklin
Based on the above quote, Kent deserves liberty and safety. In the natural, he has neither at the moment but in the supernatural he has both and far more. Kent has his act together in many things that he talks about and stands for but when you are living under a corrupt government then those things can and will be taken away but only as God allows and in the timing that he allows. No government is bigger than God. God will use the government just as he can and does use Satan for his glory as he did with Job.
Our responsibility is to walk righteously and honestly before our God.
There are many things that I would like to talk about that appear on these blogs but I can’t at the moment. As the Lord opens the doors and gives me more time then I hope to do so. Kent is a neat brother, keep praying for him. God is judging his church, his body, in other words, his people. He is getting ready to come again and he wants a pure bride, walking in his holiness, his power and love. We are called to stand for truth in all areas of life. When God reveals certain things to us then we are responsible to obey him in those areas. We are all growing in his grace and truth. We are at different places in our walks with the Lord and that is why we might disagree on certain issues. We haven’t studied certain things. That is why a baby Christian can be deeper in certain issues than a believer who has been saved for 20 years or more. But we are all held responsible for our faith. God gives us a measure of faith when we are born again and we are called to build upon that faith. “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Brothers and sisters stand firm in the Lord Jesus Christ. He is coming soon as he promised. He wants a bride waiting and ready. Be encouraged and be both… “waiting and ready.” In other words, be fighting the fight of faith, laying hold on eternal life.
JR Turner
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 4:01pm:How do we know there is no law making the average
working American liable for income tax?
http://www.truthattack.org/page8.php?SessionID=2ce9cc5466b21223fa76#Question1
djhouk
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 8:09pm:Inna Viller
Said this at 6:01pm:
Dr.Hovind’s case is less about the tax issues, it is more about how the corrupted system can twist any rightous case hipocritically, hiding their own evil doings that are anti-Constituationsl
Kent’s case was really pretty simple: he failed to withold payroll taxes from his employees, then violated banking laws in an attempt to hide this fact from the government. It’s not about his religion, not about his cause, not about any larger issue. If you or I did the same and were caught, we would face the same consequences as Kent. He’s not a martyr, just a convicted felon.
And there is a reason he was caught — he was a very visible tax protester for over 20 years. There is no evidence that he has ever filed a personal income tax form. The IRS had been after him for many years, and he had aggressively fought them; filing numerous lawsuits against the agency and personally against various IRS agents.
To me it is unfortunate that he chose the path he did, but he did so quite willingly, and for many, many years. He is now paying for it. Let’s not try to make it something bigger than what it is.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 9:46pm:quote “darling”: If you go to America and break the speed limit, the laws apply to you, whether you are a citizen, non-citizen, entered the country legally or illegally, are a resident or a visitor.
unquote:
You see this is our point of departure. I disagree with you. I believe what you are saying is simply incorrect.
If there is a “complaining party” and there is “a real loss” and/or a real “victim” and “real witnesses” an action can be enforced upon even the unwilling.
Otherwise the respondent has to be someone who has agreed to be governed by these “laws”. No agreement means no enforceable contract/ law.
With one set of traffic violation notices [someone I know] simply sent the “pieces of paper” to the chief commissioner of police and asked them “to whom do these belong?”
With a process of negative averment ie. “prove it to me/ show me/ what do these words mean/ to whom does this apply ?” a lot of violation notices seem to disappear into thin air.
You might say “well the public servant simply thought [they] were crazy or they were too busy to waste time on an idiot and simply dropped the matter”
Well [they] still won. [but to this day I do not believe that the "well they thought they were crazy" is what happened]
This stuff about the CORPORATIZED entity is real. If you begin to act as an agent for the CORPORATE COLOURED ENTITY everything changes. One of the first things [someone I know] did when [they] learnt this was write to the office of birth registrations and got them to correct a 40 year old mistake with the recording of [their] name. [they] have a letter acknowledging a “mistake”. Now it is the department of Justice that used the word “mistake”.
[they] then got a passport signed correctly. [they] then started returning all unsolicited mail to sender.
Warocuya is right. The beast wants “you” to play dead.
If you go into a court you appear to be an accommodation party who is in the “game”, of course they treat you like that.
When money became bogus, empty promissory notes/ empty bills of exchange the Treasury or Department of Justice created “empty people” as well.
Money went from being “lawful money” to being “legal tender”. Look at what is literally written on the notes in your wallet and see. Check out the history of this – I didn’t make this stuff up – most of it happened before I was born.
I do not believe the people who invented this are evil. I think it was a messy solution to a possibly real crisis.[ maybe it wasn't real, maybe it was] And I believe the courts convene in such a way as to help avoid the chaos of another total economic melt down. And I believe people like yourself and FuManChu are kind of being kept in the dark through your entire careers.
I also believe the system mainly works. But I believe when otherwise good aspects of a constitution get destroyed by liberals and when an evangelist gets jailed for technical bullshit quasi criminal breaches the system is then broken and that is when someone like me stands up to shake a few interested souls awake. Not that I think many people can listen. For the most part CNN type media programming has got them by the balls.
You see Juridical “darling” it is not that I am “ignoring” what you are saying, I think what you are saying is incorrect.
if the entire “applications section” of this table 26 is, if I remember you correctly, is nothing but a few words
“hereby imposes a tax on the taxable income of every individual”.
The distinction between taxable and non taxable is critical. the word “of” is an apposition. “Taxable income” is what is being imposed upon or “Every Individual”. I am not “Every Individual” my name is “Phillip-George” (c)1974 All Rights Reserved.
The “All Rights Reserved” – means if I owe anyone anything I expect them to be able to prove it according to common law parameters. Show me the contract. Show the Jury the proof of what you are saying.
By affidavit and with a clear conscience I am prepared to tender documents that deny my name is “PHILLIP GEORGE” – until evidence to the contrary is presented I assume I can act as an agent or authorized representative of same.
If someone turns up and says all the “legal tender” in a bank account held in the name “PHILLIP GEORGE” belongs to them I will simply ask them why they didn’t summarily take what was theirs.
You see the real “creditor” or “creditors” to the western world do not seem to want to show their faces – and I find that interesting. It seems that the whole economic machinery relies on them not being seen or known about.
So who is in the real state of denial, you or me?
If you can prove me wrong I am delighted to listen. If you can prove one non trivial fact of the bible wrong I am happy to hear about it. I believe that Jesus rose from the dead and that most of the Western World is now in a state of God denial but that is a separate issue.
Samphire thinks he is on a real winner with the “was it a light or was it a voice on the road to Damascus” – grade one logic would suggest that some witnesses heard the voice and that some witnesses saw the light and that as Paul recounted the story he gave different emphasis to different aspects of what took place. If I am telling a history I routinely do the same depending on the audience. Some people would be interested in the underground church is Saudi Arabia, some would be interested in wreck diving at Aquaba/ Jordan.
What is disturbing about this page is that people like yourself could really think that jailing a white collar criminal [he isn't] on a first offense, putting them in solitary and moving them three or four times is “justice” – this is what is really disturbing. It suggests people like yourself would have been right behind that preacher Patrick Henry saw being whipped to death for not obeying the law and applying for a government license. It seems to suggest that you would have been the respectable first recruits for a Hitler Youth Movement. It seems you want to “be right” at the expense of being “just” – that is a worry.
It really seems your own hearts are as black as the robes that blindfolded woman wears.
All Glory to Jesus. [I expect the pro forma denials from you - bring them on - yawn]
The Welders Wife
Said this on June 9th, 2007 at 10:04pm:This one is for Paul Abramson.
Hi Bro!
I watched your google video on Rescuing America [June 1st CSE blog]. It was excellent & I plan to watch it again! I can vouch for what you are saying about our media having an influence on other countries. When I was growing up in Australia, we watched American movies as well as Australian movies. Almost anything Hollywood could come up with, we saw in Australia!! Both good & bad!! It was the same with all Christian literature & Christian music, & also secular literature & secular music. My high school biology textbook was produced & published in the USA, & it was full of evolution, just like what Dr Hovind talks about!![& my science & biology teachers were thrilled to be able to obtain copies of those biology textbooks!!!!!!!!!!!] I remember on several occasions crowding around a small tv screen in the girl’s dorm at boarding school with a bunch of other high school students & guess what we were watching??? Sesame Street!!! Most Americans have no idea about what kind of impact America has on the rest of the world.
Here’s another one: While I was in Boarding School, my parents lived up in Goroka, New Guinea.[New Guinea is the big island directly above Australia.] The natives in that country have only come into modern civilization since the 2nd World War. During the 70s they were beginning to watch the stuff out of Hollywood. At that time it caused major problems for women missionaries up there, because the natives began to think that all non native women were immoral because that is what Hollywood was portraying non native women to be. And not only that, consider the toys that Americans buy for their kids…Do you know that people in other countries also purchase those same toys for their kids? Not too long ago I saw a photo on the media on a Moslem family somewhere in the Middle East. They were in a park. The Husband was working on his lap-top pc, while his wife, who was totally covered in a burka, was sitting next to him with a baby pram next to her. Laying on the ground next to the baby’s pram was a large pink ball with a blond barbie printed on it.’Teenage Dolls’ for the most part are dressed immorally.[[If I send one in a shoe box for OCC, I make sure that the doll is modestly dressed with no tummy showing, & no summer atire!!]]If a doll is dressed immorally, what does that say about the country where that doll was originally designed?
The point is, our values concerning the media are worth fighting for. God has given us freedom & we need to not waise time, but put it to good use. Most of the body of Christ around the world doesn’t have such freedoms. If we are loving them with Christ’s love, we need to be wise stewards of what God has entrusted us with. I could say lots more, but that’s plenty!
Thank you for posting that video.[ Oh & by the way, you don't look anything like what I expected you to look like!!] Keep on fighting the battle Bro!
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Thank you for your kind comments, and for reinforcing the importance of the messages – two opposites – sent out to the rest of the nations by each side in America’s Culture War. One side is the culture of life; the other side wants it fast, wants it now, there is a way that seems right to them but the end thereof is death. P.A.
“Rescuing America: Restoring Normalcy and Winning the Culture War”
VIDEO – http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=664050476979053114
MP3 — http://www.creationism.org/mp3/RescuingAmericaAbramson.mp3
Elethiomel
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 2:36am:odd then that amigas could well be supporting something that goes against God’s wishes? I suppose that God might not like the blatant nonsense that Hovind spouts, that discredits His religion, but amigas supports Hovind anyway.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 3:23am:to: djhouk [jun09], re: to Seadecker
1. you are missing the point about separation of Church and STATE.
If the separation is real and complete the Ministry of CSE does not have “employees” as it is to be construed from acts of Congress convening under the banner of Constitutional Law [this is why the transcript to the trial should make interesting reading]
2. If you thought a quasi governmental agency was acting in a way that “could be” in criminal breach of the Constitution you would want to hide everything from that criminal organisation to “prevent” them from being or creating a Constitutionally criminal breach.
3. the whole idea of 58 indictments gets me immediately suspicious of common law criminal intent behind the construction of the charges. Is it “58″ counts of structuring or “one” count that went on for 7 years?
3a. Any organisation that is responsible for auditing oversight and policing and sends out an auditor merely on a random basis, lets just say, but then draughts charges that covers the last seven years, is in my humble opinion, failing in their common law “duty of care”. If you are responsible for policing anything and discover an unintentional breach your duty, I believe, is to “warn off” the perpetrator from their behaviour; and then lay a minimal charge as a first offense would warrant. This is just common sense/ raw justice; and I believe has common law precedents.
4. The fact that no defense was made, so you say, makes one suspicious that the respondent was PERSON NOT FIT TO STAND TRIAL
5. The fact that you used the words “the majority of the next 10 years” makes one suspect that you are biased, if indeed the appeal process is not exhausted.
6. Since numbers seem to get you excited have you considered that the total accumulated debt for the world is in excess of the total cumulative value of all identifiable assets in the world. ie. money is bogus.
7. What was the “mens rea” – what was the personal gain? Don’t you believe that every real businessman with evasion schemes has off-shore companies and bank accounts in the Jersey Islands, Switzerland, Camen Islands, God knows where else? This in itself is evidence that Kent Hovind wasn’t trying to steal from anyone.
8. I reiterate, Brother Kent had/has an excellent case to present based on Common Law and Constitutional law but was profoundly ignorant of how to present it. Having said that perhaps the whole thing will be overturned by Appeal de novo, or habeus corpus ad subjicendum, or a plethora of technical errors that are always made.
9. The way in which Brother Kent has been treated since his incarceration points to something bigger; which is what I suspect Seadecker is really talking about.
10. If this was a simple payroll tax issue then the money Brother Kent should have withheld is actually in the hands of the employees and thus Kent simply doesn’t have that money. If greed is the issue He would have withheld it from both the employee and the IRS would he not?
11. by all means if I am just blind dumb help me out. teach me the error in any of these words
written Without Prejudice; All Rights Reserved by the Author; subject to peer review.
also to Inna Viller [jun09], I take your point about cynicisms, but it is worth remembering that the bible itself uses them as a rhetorical device on occasions eg. when Elijah is talking to the prophets of baal, he says, where is your god, is he on the toilet and can’t answer you right now? words very much of that effect. There is a time and place even under the sun for Godly cynicisms. [please do pray for me and everyone else wanting to discover the truth of what went on]
praybird
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 6:39am:There have been comments made on the evilness of President Bush, I am not a professional but I do have an opinion.
Recently in the last 2 weeks there were threats made again on the United States and said they would do something if the USA would not leave Iraq. The terrorists also stated that we should stop supporting Israel. There is more at stake here than just Iraq. They are vehemently angry that Israel is being helped and supported by the USA. They have stated over and over again they want to destroy Israel.
God hates Violence, but because of evil men, protection has to come to help the people. From what I understand that is why the USA went to Iraq, was to oust Saddam who out of his own mouth has stated he aided the terrorists. Who compared himself with King Nebecanezzer, of Babylon. Even had coins printed up with his image and Nebecanezzers side by side each other. He had at least 7 gold palaces, paid for by monies that should have went to the people. Evidently at one time he deceived the USA and was helped to get in power there, I don’t know much about that. But he was not voted in, he took Iraq by dictatorship.
Any leader is responsible and accountable to the people he is in authority over. It is amazing to me that Bill Clinton remained popular in spite of the fact he was committing adultry over and over in the White House and God knows what else was going on.
But President Bush is being attacked the likes I have never seen before. When is it called treason? What is treason? The man has been faithful to his wife, and done more good and has kept another attack from happening on our soil. If America were to pull out of Iraq the wrong way, you can count on the terrorists seeing this as a sign of weakness and will attack the USA. Do you think that they will just go away and leave us alone?? Why do you think they attacked on 9-11????
We need to be praying for our President as never before, pray for America, pray for Israel, and pray for the future man who will be in Office. That is my take on this.
We look forward to an update on Kent Hovind. We continue to hold this family up in prayer and support. God bless from Don and Brenda
djhouk
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 3:01pm:Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974:
As usual, I find most of your post incomprehensible; either deliberately obscure or meaninglessly irrelevant. However, I will respond to what I do understand:
1. you are missing the point about separation of Church and STATE.
If the separation is real and complete the Ministry of CSE does not have “employees” as it is to be construed from acts of Congress convening under the banner of Constitutional Law [this is why the transcript to the trial should make interesting reading]
The trial did, in fact, establish that the folks working at CSE were employees, not missionaries as Kent claimed.
3. the whole idea of 58 indictments gets me immediately suspicious of common law criminal intent behind the construction of the charges. Is it “58″ counts of structuring or “one” count that went on for 7 years?
45 of the charges related to structuring transactions over approximately a one year period. Kent’s lawyers argued, with some merit, that it should have been a single charge rather than 45. However, the court rejected this argument; Kent was sentenced on the 45 counts.
4. The fact that no defense was made, so you say, makes one suspicious that the respondent was PERSON NOT FIT TO STAND TRIAL
Or, perhaps he had no defense.
5. The fact that you used the words “the majority of the next 10 years” makes one suspect that you are biased, if indeed the appeal process is not exhausted.
I was only pointing out that most of his sentence was for the structuring charges, not the payroll tax ones.
7. What was the “mens rea” – what was the personal gain? Don’t you believe that every real businessman with evasion schemes has off-shore companies and bank accounts in the Jersey Islands, Switzerland, Camen Islands, God knows where else? This in itself is evidence that Kent Hovind wasn’t trying to steal from anyone.
I never suggested that his aim was personal gain; indeed, he appears to have led a modest lifestyle. It makes his actions even more puzzling.
9. The way in which Brother Kent has been treated since his incarceration points to something bigger; which is what I suspect Seadecker is really talking about.
I’m no expert on prison life, but the fact that “diesel therapy” is common enough to have its own jargon term leads me to believe that Kent is not being treated differently. Prison is not intended to be a pleasant experience.
10. If this was a simple payroll tax issue then the money Brother Kent should have withheld is actually in the hands of the employees and thus Kent simply doesn’t have that money. If greed is the issue He would have withheld it from both the employee and the IRS would he not?
Unfortunately, this was never about lack of money; nor have I ever suggested Kent was greedy. He just seems to have a strong aversion to paying taxes of any kind, as evidenced by his actions over the last 20 years.
Inna Viller
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 3:51pm:djhouk
Said this at 8:09pm:
“And there is a reason he was caught — he was a very visible tax protester for over 20 years. There is no evidence that he has ever filed a personal income tax form. The IRS had been after him for many years, and he had aggressively fought them; filing numerous lawsuits against the agency and personally against various IRS agents.
To me it is unfortunate that he chose the path he did, but he did so quite willingly, and for many, many years. He is now paying for it. Let’s not try to make it something bigger than what it is.”
Dear djhouk,
Thank you for you insight.
If Kent Hovind “was a very visible tax protester for over 20 years”, then he was not “caught” on that, but simply was punished for something that he believed sincerely and did not do it as it was against his faith to do…
How could he contribute to the system that was contradicting his belief? The belief that nowadays governments and laws based on tolerance to sin are heading on to the New World Order… preparing all the banks, armies and even all the countries around the world to be submitted to One World Government.
I am sure Kent Hovind did enough research on the dynamics of the New Worl Order Government tactics, and he could recognize by the Holy Spirit the forms how they are reaching their goals, submitting people’s and nations’ freedoms through controlling their financies, that are not of God’s ways.
Let us remember that for Christians it is going to be worse and worse as the plan of Anti-Christ is coming closer to its fulfillment. Christian lifestyles and the ways they choose to live by the Spirit will contradict to the modern laws and regulations of the world. I do not think the world will persecute the church that is warm and submissive to the evil… or to the evil and abusive laws, taxation laws in particular… They will persecute the church that is INCONVENIENT to fulfill the New World Order… They will choose to legalize the religion that will be tolerating tolerance to sin to keep peace… (Aren’t there going on many manipulations by the IRS nowadays? Who is happy with their service? Do they serve people’s interests, considering their needs?) Remember, the living church of Christ will be persecuted at those times? This church will be creating frictions more and more, like Hovind’s ministry… He simply could not warn people about the New World Order on his seminars, at the same time supporting the New World Order with the ministry’s funds! Who will report to the guys like him, where this money were spent for? This is how I feel about it…
I can tell one thing, if Kent Hovind is in jail, it is a big complement to him as a Christian, for we are living at the End Times, and Christians are going to be persecuted. If Kent Hovind is in conflict with the law, he proclaimed his beliefs publically, conveying that he does not support the goverment agencies that less and less of God’ will, but more of people’s will where nine people decide for many WHAT IS TRUE or should be accepted as the truth.
Who can control the IRS? What standards are they ruled by? Who are they accountable to? I think we need to listen over and over again to Devvy’s radio 4 minute program mentioned by JR Turner to get a good idea about the anti-Constitutional dynamics of such the agencies…
… And Hovind’s case is being bigger indeed than just tax issues. These are just “first flowers”, (the way we are saying in Ukraine), of the serious battle ahead of us… Let us remember that anti-Christ will be so well masked and so good-looking that many will be deceived by him and taken as a True God… And many will bow down to him…… And behind him will be the whole world and the whole well-structured system with the World Army and World Bank, built by the laws that prepared a good ground for him to function… Yet, we know who is the Winner, and all the Saints will judge this “well-structred and well controlled” world, that was deceived.
Check, you guys, who stands behind Hovind… and who stands behind the authors of the IRS agenda… I do not mean people… I mean the spirit…
Blessings in Christ for the day,
Inna.
Ekkman
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 4:12pm:praybird
Said this at 6:39am:
There have been comments made on the evilness of President Bush, I am not a professional but I do have an opinion.
Recently in the last 2 weeks there were threats made again on the United States and said they would do something if the USA would not leave Iraq. The terrorists also stated that we should stop supporting Israel. There is more at stake here than just Iraq. They are vehemently angry that Israel is being helped and supported by the USA. They have stated over and over again they want to destroy Israel.
God hates Violence, but because of evil men, protection has to come to help the people. From what I understand that is why the USA went to Iraq, was to oust Saddam who out of his own mouth has stated he aided the terrorists. Who compared himself with King Nebecanezzer, of Babylon. Even had coins printed up with his image and Nebecanezzers side by side each other. He had at least 7 gold palaces, paid for by monies that should have went to the people. Evidently at one time he deceived the USA and was helped to get in power there, I don’t know much about that. But he was not voted in, he took Iraq by dictatorship.
Any leader is responsible and accountable to the people he is in authority over. It is amazing to me that Bill Clinton remained popular in spite of the fact he was committing adultry over and over in the White House and God knows what else was going on.
But President Bush is being attacked the likes I have never seen before. When is it called treason? What is treason? The man has been faithful to his wife, and done more good and has kept another attack from happening on our soil. If America were to pull out of Iraq the wrong way, you can count on the terrorists seeing this as a sign of weakness and will attack the USA. Do you think that they will just go away and leave us alone?? Why do you think they attacked on 9-11????
We need to be praying for our President as never before, pray for America, pray for Israel, and pray for the future man who will be in Office. That is my take on this.
We look forward to an update on Kent Hovind. We continue to hold this family up in prayer and support. God bless from Don and Brenda
I would say that Praygirl is attacking my comments again. I surely wish that she would study more before she makes certain statements.
Praygirl, I am sure that you would know that Bush has made these comments or has done these things below.
“I do say that freedom is the Almighty’s gift to every person. I also condition it by saying freedom is not America’s gift to the world,” Bush replied. “It’s much greater than that, of course. And I believe we worship the same god,” reported the London Telegraph
In context, they were talking about Muslims. Here Bush says that the Muslim and Christian God are one and the same. Do you believe that?
“In October 2006, Bush signed into law the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007. Quietly slipped into the law at the last minute, at the request of the Bush administration, were sections changing important legal principles, dating back 200 years, which limit the U.S. government’s ability to use the military to intervene in domestic affairs. These changes would allow Bush, whenever he thinks it necessary, to institute martial law–under which the military takes direct control over civilian administration. “
Bush did this so he could declare martial law at basically his whim, so to speak.
“Presidential candidate George W. Bush stated in August 2000 in a speech on Latin America in Miami Florida:
“…By nominating me, my party has made a choice to welcome the new America.”
Our intentionally unsecured borders and our government’s deliberate and unapologetic lack of enforcement of our immigration and employment laws is merely a necessary step to a much larger goal – a “New America” in a “North American Community.”
A New America that would replace the traditional self-governing “Old America” for which our founders sacrificed and our grandfathers fought to pass on. “
Here we see that Pres. Bush doesn’t care for the “old” America but the “new” one that he is making or the ones behind him, in reality.
I agree with you, Praygirl when you said, “God hates Violence, but because of evil men…”
Adding to you said… “:Bush loves violence since he is having our kids killed for no reason at all. I tell people, “If we are really going to straighten our this world, be the world’s police, we need to be sending our kids over to China and wiping out a lot of their people, they are killing Christians all the time and many others. I guess we need to make them a ‘democracy” too.
The word of God says, “For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.”
I agree with your words,
“Any leader is responsible and accountable to the people he is in authority over.”
Based on what you said then you would agree that Bush is responsible for all the lives that we have lost and all the lives that we have killed over in Iraq for nothing but power, greed and the U.N. wanted it done. We are not the world’s police, it looks like we are trying to be but we never will be that.
I wrote this for my Page after Bush has been in office about a year…
“I have given it long enough. A lot of Christians seemed to think that if Bush got into office we would be a lot better off than with Clinton. I am afraid that even this short time has shown otherwise. Their thought pattern was along the lines that if we got a Republican into the Presidency then things wouldn’t be so liberal. I have been telling people over and over that there is not a hair’s thickness regarding the difference in the Democrats and Republicans today even if there ever was a big difference, that difference has long disappeared. It goes this way, the Democrats get into office and make things worse then a Republican gets in and he leaves it basically the same as the Democrats made it when they were in. The next few years the same thing happens and finally we get to where we are now. Never really any improvements just going downhill slower since most don’t see what is going on.
God is calling for America to repent or America will fall and she will fall hard. She is top heavy around the head, full or pride and thinking no one will mess with her. During the Bush Administration, she has killed countless thousands showing her power but playing the fool… She has done some sloppy junk in the past but she is getting worse. I think the federal government has gone power mad. They will kill, jail or whatever else they want to do to those who get in the way. The Constitution is just an old piece of paper that means nothing to them.
I knew if we got a man into office that wouldn’t do anything to stop abortion, probably the top evil in America, then he wasn’t worth having as President. Anyway since his taking office we have been going downhill faster than when we had Clinton in, if that is possible. It looks like it is. As I said regarding the Clinton Administration and I will say again now, “God raised up heathen kings to destroy his people before and he can do it again if he doesn’t see repentance.”
BUT at least he is faithful to his wife??? Or at least as far as you know he is. NO matter if he trashes our Constitution, let least he is faithful to his wife. I hope that he is, at least it can be said that he was honest in some areas.
I am sure that you know that he has admitted that he was wrong on Iraq having WMD’s.. But he then said that he is making Iraq a democracy now. I thought he was a Republican???
Speaking of Saddam and money. Based on your thoughts there then we should enter into a war with America, they steal money from their people and call it income tax. They build big fancy houses and the like for their people with money that they print with no gold or silver behind it??? Or should I say the international bankers who control our government or the even bigger ones behind them.
You asked, “What is treason?” Couldn’t we say that one definition that would fit is: ‘A person sells out his nation for money or power. ‘
In closing, we are not just helping Israel, we are also helping their enemies as well as our own when it serves the purposes of those in power over our governments.
Ekkman
Ekkman
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 5:36pm:A few of Bush’s decisions as a “Christian” in the White (Gray) House. Things aren’t black and white in these last days. They are probably mostly gray??? I guess! Maybe?
WHITE HOUSE LENDS A HAND TO ANNA NICOLE 12/27/05
Bush Sides with Playboy Playmate in Fight for Late Husband’s Estate
WASHINGTON – Playboy playmate Anna Nicole Smith has an unusual bedfellow in the Supreme Court fight over her late husband’s fortune: the Bush administration.
WHITE HOUSE WON’T ADDRESS PORN STAR DINING WITH BUSH 6/13/05
Refers questions about Mary Carey, boss to committee sponsoring presidential event
White House spokesman Scott McClellan today refused to answer questions about the attendance of a porn star and her boss at a fund-raising dinner tomorrow where President Bush will be the guest of honor.
BUSH SIGNS TITLE X FUNDING INCREASE FOR 2005 2/8/05
President George W. Bush and the Republican-majority Congress Increased Title X to record $288.3 million in FY 2005 on 12/8/04
Title X is one of two major federal government funding sources for Planned Parenthood Federation of America, the nation’s largest chain of abortion centers (murdering over 244,000 unborn human beings per year by surgical abortion alone).
VILE ROCK-RAPPER TO ENTERTAIN AT BUSH INAUGURATION 1/5/05
Some wonder why values voters rewarded with F-word-spewing rapper
Because Christians rasied their voices, Kid Rock got the boot!
Kid Rock, a popular vulgar rock-rapper whose lyrics wouldn’t begin to pass muster with the Federal Communications Commission, is headlining the youth concert during the inauguration festivities for President Bush – a politician who was re-elected largely due to the participation of traditional “values voters.”
BUSH PICKS PRO-ABORTION GONZALES TO SUCCEED ASHCROFT 11/10/04
Pro-lifers not thrilled with Gonzales choice Bush’s pick for attorney general upheld abortion on Texas court
Pro-life activists are criticizing President Bush’s choice of Alberto Gonzales to replace John Ashcroft as attorney general, worrying the White House counsel will not aggressively uphold the administration’s anti-abortion stance.
BUSH ‘AGAIN’ VOICES SUPPORT FOR EQUIVALENT TO HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE 10/27/04
I don’t think we should deny people rights to a civil union, a legal arrangement, if that’s what a state chooses to do,” the president stated. “[S]tates ought to be able to have the right to pass … laws that enable people to, you know, be able to have rights, like others.”
BUSH ‘AGAIN’ STATES THAT CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS WORSHIP THE SAME GOD 10/26/04
In an exclusive interview with ABC News’ Charles Gibson, Bush said he believes that both Christians and Muslims worship the same God.
“I think we do. We have different routes of getting to the Almighty,” Bush said. “But I want you to understand, I want your listeners to understand, I don’t get to get decide who goes to heaven. The Almighty God decides who goes to heaven and I am on my personal walk,” he said.
BUSH ABANDONS BASE ON HOMOSEXUALITY 9/2/04
On Aug. 15, in an interview with CNN’s Larry King, the president was talking about his support for a federal marriage amendment when King asked him, “What about the union of gays?”
Mr. Bush said, “Well, that’s up to the states, you know. If states choose to do that, in other words, if they want to provide legal protections for gays, that’s great! That’s fine!”
BUSH ENDORSES CONDOM USE 6/23/04
Philadelphia, PA – Bush declared that he supports the A.B.C. approach to prevent AIDS, “That stands for: Abstain, be faithful in marriage, and, when appropriate, use condoms.”
LAURA BUSH PUSHES RE-ELECTION OF UNGODLY SENATOR 6/17/04
Remarks by First Lady Laura Bush at Bush-Cheney ‘04 Rally
“I want you all to know that I’m supporting Senator Arlen Specter, and I hope all of you are too. (Applause.) He deserves to be re-elected in November.”
BUSH PUBLICALLY ADVOCATES AND RAISES HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THE RE-ELECTION OF PRO-ABORTION, PRO-HOMOSEXUAL SENATOR 4/19/04
Pittsburgh, PA – President Bush gave Sen. Arlen Specter a much-needed boost Monday, urging GOP faithful to stick with the moderate incumbent over a conservative challenger in Pennsylvania’s tightening Republican primary for the U.S. Senate.
“I’m here to say it as plainly as I can: Arlen Specter is the right man for the United States Senate,” Bush told a whooping crowd of an estimated 2,000 supporters at the Steel City’s downtown convention center
CONSTITUTION PARTY: BUSH SLAPS FACE OF BELIEVERS, CONSERVATIVES 2/26/04
Lancaster, PA – President George W. Bush has slapped the face of conservatives and those who believe in God with his recess appointment of former Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th District, Constitution Party National Chairman Jim Clymer said today.
BUSH TO NBC: “IT’S SO SECRET, WE CAN’T TALK ABOUT IT.” 2/8/04
WASHINGTON (AFP) – US President George W. Bush discussed Iraq, the November elections and the war on terrorism in an interview but laughingly stonewalled a question about his university secret society.
“It’s so secret, we can’t talk about it,” he told NBC television when asked about the fact that both he and the Democratic frontrunner, Senator John Kerry, are members of Yale University’s Skull and Bones.
NOTE: The Skull & Bones Society is an unGodly organization (a cult) of which Bush has never repented of being a member. John Kerry is also a member.
(They are born again when they are taken out of a casket by another member. That is basically how Bush is born again.)
BUSH AGAIN ENDORSES OTHER RELIGIONS! 1/16/04
NEWS BRIEF: Associated Press reports (1/15/04) in a speech at a New Orleans church, Bush told the crowd that God works through many of the world’s religions. “Miracles happen as a result of the love of the Almighty, professed, by the way, taught, by the way, by religions from all walks of life whether it be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu,” Bush said. The president went on to say that there is nothing better than a faith-based program to provide hope: “Again, I don’t care what religion it is — there’s nothing more hopeful than the word.” It was not clear from the report what “word” President Bush was talking about. [Fred Jackson/AP]
BUSH PRAYS TO ALLAH AND PRAISES ISLAM
Dec. 29/ Jan. 5 Issue
“American officials in Iraq are well aware of al-Rubaie’s ability to navigate in both worlds; when President Bush landed in Baghdad for Thanksgiving dinner, clearly he’d been briefed. As al-Rubaie remembers their encounter, the president pointed at him and said, ‘Dr. al-Rubaie, I want you to convey this message to Mr. Sistani. Tell him that I pray to the same god he prays to… Tell Sistani I have nothing but praise for your religion. I have many millions of Muslims in my country back home.’ ”
BUSH’S COMMENTS REGARDING HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE RANKLE PRO-FAMILY LEADERS 12/18/03
Several pro-family groups are reacting negatively to a recent comment by President Bush that implies he may be somewhat soft on his backing of a Constitutional amendment protecting traditional marriage.
BUSH MARRIAGE STANCE NOT ‘CLEAR’ 12/18/03
Pro-family groups said yesterday that President Bush “drove a wedge” into their efforts to protect marriage by seeming to accept homosexual civil unions, even as he said he could support an amendment defining marriage as solely between a man and woman.
PRESIDENTIAL EMBRACE OF CIVIL UNIONS UNDERMINES
PRO-FAMILY EFFORT TO SAVE MARRIAGE 12/17/03
President Bush last night drove a wedge into the pro-family effort to preserve the institution of marriage by signaling that his administration supports the creation of homosexual civil unions or domestic partnerships at the state level.
BUSH SAYS NO GAY MARRIAGES, BUT… 12/17/03
President Bush yesterday appeared to open the door to same-sex unions that stop short of marriage, by saying people should be able to make “whatever legal arrangements” they want as long as it is recognized by a state.
“The position of this administration is that whatever legal arrangements people want to make, they’re allowed to make, so long as it’s embraced by the state or at the state level.”
CHRISTIANS WASTING THEIR VOTES ON BOTH PARTIES
12/15/03
A South Carolina pro-life activist says there isn’t a “dime’s worth of difference” between the two major political parties when it comes to protecting the unborn — and he is asking Christian voters to remember that in next fall’s elections.
BUSH: CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS WORSHIP SAME GOD 11/20/03
In an answer likely to upset evangelicals and other members of his Christian base, President Bush said Nov. 20 that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.
BUSH CHEERS ‘GAY’ CHURCH AFTER ‘MARRIAGE WEEK’ 11/12/03
Not long after he endorsed “Marriage Protection Week,” President Bush sent a letter of congratulations to a denomination founded by homosexual activists that performs more than 6,000 same-sex “weddings” each year.
BUSH: USA ISN’T READY FOR TOTAL ABORTION BAN 10/28/03
President Bush, who campaigned as an opponent of abortion, said Tuesday that Americans aren’t ready to support a complete ban
BUSH PRAISES ISLAM AS RELIGION OF TOLERANCE 10/22/03
The world’s most populous Muslim nation was praised on Wednesday by US President George W. Bush for supporting the war on terror, but he told Indonesia that Islamic extremists had defiled a great religion.
BUSH BACKS REMOVAL OF TEN COMMANDMENT MONUMENT 8/28/03
The office of President George W. Bush, who has been forthright in his public professions of Christian faith, backed the removal of the monument as the right thing legally while acknowledging such cases have gone both ways in the past.
BUSH PRAISES ISLAM FOR ITS ‘MORALITY’ 12/6/02
President Bush yesterday removed his shoes, entered a mosque and praised Islam for inspiring “countless individuals to lead lives of honesty, integrity, and morality.”
BUSH GIVES DEATH BENEFITS TO HOMOSEXUALS 6/26/02
President Bush has signed a bill allowing death benefits to be paid to the domestic partners of firefighters and police officers who die in the line of duty, permanently extending a federal death benefit to same-sex couples for the first time.
BUSH PRAISES OZZY OSBOURNE AT WHITE HOUSE DINNER
Commentaror calls president to apologize 5/13/02
“When named by Bush in his address, Osbourne stood on his chair and raised his arms to wild applause. Later he said he was honored to be mentioned. In typical Osbourne style, he said, ‘It’s f—ing blowing my mind!’ His wife and No. 1 promoter, Sharon, added, ‘What can you say? It’s the most incredible thing that he would even mention Ozzy. It’s a bit overwhelming.’
President Bush promised to clean up the White House after eight years of Bill Clinton. He promised to lead by example. He promised to bring dignity back to the office. He ought to apologize to the parents of America for his shameful behavior at the dinner last week.”
OZZY OSBOURNE ‘INVITED TO WHITE HOUSE’ 4/4/02
Wildman rocker Ozzy Osbourne has been invited to dinner at the White House by US president George W Bush, according to reports.
Osbourne said he was stunned to be invited, according to the Express newspaper. He said: “I thought I’d be on a wanted
poster on the wall, not invited
to his place to tea.”
DENOUNCING THE PRESIDENT BUSH’S SHINTO SHRINE WORSHIP 2/19/02
The Korean Church together with the Japanese Church is shocked and frightened at the act of the President Bush’s shrine worship at the Meiji Shrine in the morning of Feb. 18, 2002 upholding the flag of the so called a Christian justice and a superpower, for it is an act of idol worship breaking the first, second, and third commandments of the Christian faith. We strongly denounce it.
BUSH ‘WORSHIP’ SHINTO TEMPLE TROUBLES CHRISTIANS IN JAPAN AND U.S.
When President Bush entered the ornately beautiful Shinto Temple erected to house the spirits of the late Emperor Meiji he clapped once and bowed deeply, following the common etiquette of worship at such shrines. At the same time, the Prime Minister of Japan was left sitting in the car—forbidden from entering the shrine by a postwar constitution written by the U.S.
BUSHES TAKE IN ARCHERY SHOW AT SHRINE 2/19/02
U.S. President George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, on Monday visited Meiji Shrine, a major venue for Shinto worshippers in Tokyo. President George W. Bush registers his name at Meiji Shrine’s main hall of worship.
Bush and the first lady paid their respects by bowing in front of the main shrine hall before signing a registry book, including a brief comment on their visit.
BUSH HONORS ISLAM HOLY MONTH 11/19/01
President Bush hosted an “Iftaar” (Ramadan break-the-fast dinner) the evening of November 19 at the White House for representatives of some 53 Muslim nations — reportedly the first such gathering at the White House.
Bush stated during his speech, “…it is fitting for America to honor your friendship and the traditions of a great faith by hosting this Iftaar at the White House.”
BUSH INVITES MUSLIMS TO PRAY IN THE WHITE HOUSE 11/16/01
PRESIDENT BUSH, eager to improve America’s reputation in the Muslim world, will welcome 50 ambassadors from Islamic countries for a traditional meal and prayer at the White House on Monday to mark the start of Ramadan.
It is thought to be the first time that Muslims will have knelt and touched the floor with their foreheads in a formal ceremony in the official home of American presidents.
BUSH ADMINISTRATION PROMOTES “GLOBAL HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVISM” 9/28/01
The leader of a pro-family organization based in Virginia says George W. Bush “betrayed American values” by sending two homosexuals to the American embassy in Bucharest, Romania. Joe Glover, President of Family Policy Network, made his remarks after learning that Bush had dispatched a homosexual to be U.S. Ambassador to Romania, and was sending his “partner” to go with him.
BUSH APPOINTS OPENLY GAY HOMOSEXUAL,
FIRST EVER BY REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT 6/4/01
As President Bush seeks to walk a fine line on policies to appease both parties in Congress, some members of the Religious Right are attacking him for appointing an openly gay man to lead the White House HIV/AIDS policy office.
CHRISTIAN GROUPS DISTURBED BY BUSH’S CHOICE OF HOMOSEXUAL TO HEAD AIDS OFFICE 4/11/01
Christian organizations are reacting to the appointment of Scott Evertz to lead the White House Office of National AIDS Policy. Evertz is the first open homosexual to be appointed to such a high post by a Republican President.
BUSH USES PROFANITY ABOUT REPORTER 9/4/00
George W. Bush made a disparaging remark Monday about a reporter from The New York Times that was picked up by a live microphone.
As Bush stood on the podium waiting for music to finish, he turned to running mate Dick Cheney and used an obscenity to describe reporter Adam Clymer in the nearby press area. Cheney agreed with Bush’s assessment. Both men thought their remarks were off-mike.
BUSH MEETS WITH GAY REPUBLICANS, SAYS
GAY LIFESTYLE IS PERSONAL AND PRIVATE 3/6/00
Texas Gov. George W. Bush — who previously declined a meeting with the gay Log Cabin Republicans group because he said it would create a political “nightmare” — said yesterday he is now willing to meet with them.
“I welcome their support,” Bush said in an interview with The Chronicle. “I’ve got Log Cabin Republicans supporting me all across America.”
How anyone can think that George Bush is a Christian is beyond me. Clinton said that he was too but most Christians that I know didn’t believe him. Why do they believe Bush. His words condemn him as I said in the last blog.
Keep in mind, they are using the term “gay” in reference to homosexuals, sodomites. If we are going to use “nicknames” we should use ‘miseries’. It fits them better. I have shared with many homosexuals and ‘gay’ does not fit them. Mostly, they are miserable, angry people. But the need the Lord Jesus Christ as we all do.
In closing, Bush is faithful to his wife… as far as we know he is!?
The above quotes were taken from http://www.bushrevealed.com/
Ekkman
FuManchu
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 6:47pm:Praybird,
On the whole it would be better if people didn’t rise to the bait when it comes to politics. I don’t think most people are here to talk politics, and in any case we’d end up with an unusual discussion – not liberals (Bush is bad) v conservatives (Bush is good) but conservatives (Bush is good) v ultra-religious conservatives (Bush is a tool of Satan).
An added advantage is that we avoid having silly political comments thrown around. I have the greatest respect for George Bush’s ability to avoid cheating on his wife; I’m not convinced, however, that it merits wholesale adoption of Republican talking-points.
Ekkman
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 7:39pm:Watch the link below, it will help you to understand one of the reasons why Kent Hovind is in prison and also help you to get a better picture of our government and the men behind them. Listen to the words of our “Christian” president. Remember the quote I gave in an earlier post. “For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.”
Watch it all the way through. I cried while watching it. “And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.”
http://www.scottcsmith.net/remindus.swf
And as you are praying weep for our nation, she has fallen from the ways of the Lord!
Three Crosses
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 8:13pm:Hi I/we are the three Crosses. We have a myspace page as such. Myspace seems only good for witnessing. My testimony is that I was saved at an early age and baptized . For many years I was active in the church until my late teens. Then I started living for the party , deceived by things worldly. In my early thirties I WOKE UP , I WAS BLIND NOW I SEE! I prayed to God in Jesus’ name not to be deceived . At first I saw all the deceptions around me (that hurt). Then in further answer to my prayer my brother asked me what the one world religion was. Then he gave me Kent’s seminar . It sat on my shelf for over a year. I watched Kent’s seminars then I realized all the ways I had deceived myself (that really ,really…… hurt!). I was determined Kent had to be wrong so I started researching all of his statements to the best of my ability, had my Biochemistry professor friend over to watch Kent’s debates with me.
that I had said it with someone else. 2 weeks later my friend was fired and escorted off campus by the police for teaching his students the truth!! To be exact that science or evolution could not explain “medical miracles” or the “origin of life” it had to have been created.
I did not see my friend for 1 year. Then he came over and said the prayer of salvation with me (he was raised catholic) .This may have been the first time since I said the prayer of salvation (when I was
Now Kent has been silenced by the “most powerful nation on earth” for telling/teaching the truth. It seems very easy for many of you to say that Kent should have gotten proper government approval to teach only what they wanted him to teach. To you I say “shut up and take your mark!”(I didn’t mean that It’s meant to make a point) Our lord GOD gave you a brain, a will, eyes to see and a mouth to speak . It’s time to use them ! there will not be a later.
Please pray for Kent Hovind and his famliy! I think we have enough martyrs. Wherever you are why don’t you make a stand. Why don’t you tell the gas attendant you don’t think oil companies should proffit off young men’s lives , widows and orphans!! Why don’t you tell that family at Wal mart they don’t have to be searched when they buy their groceries. Why don’t you pick some sedated individual out of the crowd and try to wake them up to the world . Ask them a simple question like if the lottery has paid billions of dollars to the public schools why don’t the children get updated school books? Or at a local school here. Why does a male coach walk in on little girls changing three times before he’s dismissed? How about why a celebrity can complain about a sentence and have it diminished? Here’s a good one. Why should your “government of the people by the people and for the people” tell you what part of your freedom of speech our forefathers meant you to have? Was that freedom of assembly with a permit? Freedom of press if it doesn’t offend your advertisers? Where are all these limits going to stop ? When our beloved congress was deciding the people should have a 1% income tax one man said where’s it going to stop 5%,10% even 20% . They said thats so stupid the American people would never stand for a 5% income tax !!! Now we stand for our neighbors and brothers in Christ being locked up because they can’t afford to pay a credit card with interest rates a loan shark would be ashamed of.
When I first decided to place this comment, I wanted to tell the person above me what I have learned and know personally of the powers that be .Jesus Christ, I believe wants us to love one another! I have never written my feelings on my trips to Waco and what I saw there or about what witnesses to the OK city bombings have said. I have also never written what is obvious about 9/11. These things could be misconstrued . This is not the God fearing country it once was .The people who committed these atrocities all work for satan it isn’t hard to find out what happened if you want to know! God bless america, God save us all!!!
EndTimes
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 9:42pm:Jun 10 praybird
“Said this at 6:39am: But President Bush is being attacked the likes I have never seen before. When is it called treason? What is treason? The man has been faithful to his wife, and done more good and has kept another attack from happening on our soil. If America were to pull out of Iraq the wrong way, you can count on the terrorists seeing this as a sign of weakness and will attack the USA. Do you think that they will just go away and leave us alone?? Why do you think they attacked on 9-11????
We need to be praying for our President as never before, pray for America, pray for Israel, and pray for the future man who will be in Office. That is my take on this.
We look forward to an update on Kent Hovind. We continue to hold this family up in prayer and support. God bless from Don and Brenda.”
Dear praybird,
I do not have any doubt that you are sincerely following in your heart the commandment to pray for our leaders and in this you are absolutely correct. However, that commandment was given with a purpose for those prayers. Let’s take a look at the actual verse and I will give you my “spin” on what it is stating.
I Timothy 2:I EXHORT therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Thus, if we read between the lines, the reason for prayer is so that “we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.” In other words, the main aspect of this prayer is so that we would have protection from despotic rulers who are the cause of most of the disruption of a peaceable life in any given nation throughout this world. There are too many examples of people terrorized by their rulers to list.
Here in America, by the hand of God, we have enjoyed an unparalleled course of both peace and prosperity with an abundance of religious freedom. That unfortunately is slipping away and even more so while G.W. Bush has been at the helm. The kindest thing I could say about that is that perhaps he has been asleep and he has not taken notice of the total abrogation of constitutional rights occurring before our very eyes. The reality is that he has personally lead the most intensive assault against constitutional freedoms of any prior president. I’m sorry, but the news does bear this out even if they are left wing liberals. Please take a look at the Military Commissions Act and see if you feel any safer because of it.
Despite djhouk’s totally irrelevant assessment of Dr. Hovind’s situation, there are indeed numerous principles of religious freedom at stake. Please remember that there was not a single one of the laws in place in 1983 that sent Dr. Hovind to prison in 2006. Up until January 1, 1984, he would not have been accused of any crime most especially for the 58 counts against him. It was simply not against the law to not be a tax collector for the IRS if you were running a ministry of God here in this country at that time. So, djhouk, you are wrong about the fact that there are no other issues at hand and you also appear to have a vindictive streak inside of you by your comments so often placed. You have spoken your peace many times over and your further comments are tiresome as it appears that you never have anything new to add. Certainly, it appears that by the actions that he took he himself is “responsible” for the position that he now is in. I don’t think that Dr. Hovind would even argue that point, but he has the right to assert his reasons for why he did what he has done. God will take that into account when Dr. Hovind stands before him for in all things, it is what that is in the heart that matters most. Whether they were right or wrong actions is again between Dr. Hovind, his family and God, not you djhouk.
So, we should take a look at a fairly well known quote from Playboy magazine in 1967. (NO I didn’t’ get the quote from the actually magazine, it is on the internet without any ungodly photos attached) The interview was with Jim Garrison, the only DA to bring to trial anyone for the assassination of JFK. It is indeed absolutely relevant to this discussion and our situation today.
“I’ve learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I’ve always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Government’s basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I’ve come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I’m afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security.”
(Note, who is the ONLY American president who was a former CIA director and who is his son??)
Playboy interview, Jim Garrison, 1967!! (Next to last paragraph)
http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison4.html
So, I do pray for our leaders that they will not take us into the land of Nazi like fascism, yet there are so many examples that we are indeed on that slippery slope already and even worse, they are greasing it every day. Please don’t be deceived by “Republicans” that appear to have Christians best interest at heart in their fancy speeches, yet by their actions, they are preparing the lions den. It is sad to me that President Bush chooses to act above the constitution in complete defiance of its authority over and over again.
Finally, you asked what treason is? Well for an elected official, the test is easy to determine for it is part of their oath to protect and defend the constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. We are all upset about the “terrorists” out there which are by the way quite real no doubt, but we are falling into the horrible governing body of fascism in exactly the manner that Jim Garrison warned. So, yes, please pray for the leaders of this nation that God would restrain their evil. President Bush is and will be known for his fruits. By the Military Commission Act alone, he has not stood in defense of the constitution, he has instead given a few men in this nation the authority to completely abrogate the Habeas Corpus rights of any and all men in this nation. That in my mind is treason. That in my mind is an overt confirmation that we are already in a fascist state and that the constitution is already dead in the eyes of those that have sworn to protect and defend it. Just ask Dr. Hovind if standing up for constitutional rights is honoured any longer in this nation. Harsh words yes, but if they are true, then Christian please wake up and take warning. Be not deceived!! Take a listen to some of the issues Paul Abramson has spoken of on his video. (Thank you Paul for seeking to stand in the gap.)
I personally believe that the trap has already been set and the sleeping church of America is in great danger already. So go ahead and be frightened by the terrorists as we see our country become the menace to the world that it already is to so many people. (Weapons of mass destruction or simply lies that have lead to mass destruction of the Iraqi people) My friends, do you not know how we really exert our power in the world? It is not with a carrot any longer.
May God restore unto us a land of peace and freedom not only here in America but throughout the entire earth. Lord Jesus, please come quickly, Amen.
EndTimes
P.S. Please take another look at the prophecy study I noted above on the false prophet in Revelation 13:11-12. It is the single most important set of verses for all Americans to correctly note and understand at the present time, especially those of the house of God. Please ask God to give you ears to hear and eyes to see. This is a post that I do not take lightly, nor should you. (Exekiel 33)
Three Crosses
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 9:52pm:Dear Paul Abramson I don’t want to have two posts next to each other again. I however need to tell you .I don’t think I could do your job. I’m very glad that you are blessed with the ability to moderate between those who accept God’s wisdom and those who do not. As a brother in Christ I would like to express how hard it is to look back and see how we felt before salvation. At one point or another in almost all of our lives we felt as these “skeptics” that post here feel . I am 35 years young an old man to some a child to others. Why is it do you think that if you go blind you can remember what it was to see but if suddenly you can see it’s so hard to remember being blind. To love one another is something I aspire to. I had spent so long blind yet now it’s like a vague dream that brings tears at the thought . Someday soon we will all have time to get to know each other . I just wanted you to know I respect what you do. I am glad the Hovinds have friends like you and the people at CSE to help them. To see a brother in Christ locked up hurts . In the past few years I’ve gone from backslidden or whatever term you prefer to trying to be a Christian, Kent has and continues to be a very big part of that. I live aparently where the fountains of the deep came up. God has shown me evidences of the flood and his judgement that I think would surprise even those of you at CSE if I had an address I could send pictures there are thousands upon thousands of fossils within 5 mins. walk from my front door. I thank God we Christians can give each other strength and support. As far as the “skeptics” go, they wouldn’t be here for no reason. People often plant more than one seed to insure the plant grows. Thanks so much for reading.
Your brother in Christ Mr. Cross
EndTimes
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 10:19pm:Jun 10 praybird
“Said this at 6:39am:
“Evidently at one time he deceived the USA and was helped to get in power there, I don’t know much about that. But he was not voted in, he took Iraq by dictatorship.”
Sorry, but I overlooked this the first time I read it through. It is my understanding that just like the Shah of Iran, the CIA had there hands in his ascension to power through a coup that inserted the Ba’ath party into power in 1963. Saddam’s subsequent rise to power was through his own ruthlessness, which the CIA used again once he was in power. Please don’t forget the pictures of Rumsfeld visiting his “ally” Saddam in a prior administration in 1983. When he had served his purpose in the region, we again used him as an excuse to attack a sovereign nation that was not in a state of war with us.
Sorry, to be blunt, but there is much more going on here than meets the eye. Please, people of God, don’t be manipulated by propaganda and mind control techniques that are all quite real. Let your eyes be opened by complete faith in the prophecies of the Bible, it is the only way not to be deceived by the works of Satan as time draws near.
In kindness,
EndTimes
http://www.representativepress.org/CIASaddam.html
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Nimmo_Saddam-CIA.htm
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTldYbqlJc8
P.S. Take a look at how America deliberately provoked Japan to go to war against us. Hmmmm, any other attacks against America that might have been known in advance??
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/fdr_provoked_the_japanese_attack.htm
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/20/048.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husband_E._Kimmel
“On May 25, 1999, the United States Senate passed a resolution exonerating Kimmel and Short. “They were denied vital intelligence that was available in Washington,” said Senator William V. Roth Jr. (R-DE), noting that they had been made scapegoats by the Pentagon. Senator Strom Thurmond (R-SC) called Kimmel and Short “the two final victims of Pearl Harbor.” (2)” (Note, neither Clinton or G W Bush ever signed this resolution.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Short
EndTimes
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 10:47pm:Jun 1 Elethiomel
Said this at 9:40am:
I wonder if Mr Hovind or his devout followers have ever actually entertained the thought that God might not like what Kent is doing and is seeking to teach him a lesson. Still it’s always easy to give your support to someone in jail when you’re doing it from the comfort of your own home.
Jun 1 amigas
Said this at 3:20pm:
Dear Elethiomel
You claim that many of us are devout followers of Dr. Hovind. I along with other Christian bloggers on this sight have not claimed to be followers of Dr. Hovind, we claim to be followers of Jesus Christ and therefore brethren with Dr. Hovind. I do not, nor would I, follow any man, and though I do support Dr. Hovind from the comfort of my daily life, I believe, I would still support him if I were in a prison cell for such support. I along with many other Christians will not turn our backs on a brother or sister in Christ because of a little pressure or discomfort.
A supporter and brother of Dr. Hovind and a devout follower of Jusus Christ.
Gene Schmeling
Jun 7 Elethiomel
Said this at 3:17am:
Amigas and Teno – interesting that neither of you addressed the central point of my post; that God might actually disapprove of what your Brother Hovind is doing.
Jun 8 amigas
Said this at 11:24am:
Dear Elethiomel;
It has occurred to me that God may not like what Dr. Hovind is doing, and it has also occurred to me that he may be more inline with the will of God than I am. Knowing what a government can do to the perfect Jesus leads me to believe that even if someone spends their entire life in prison doesn’t mean they are out of the will of God. Therefore, I am not waiting to see what the courts decide to determine if I will be a Christian brother to Dr. Hovind.
Jun 10 Elethiomel
Said this at 2:36am:
odd then that amigas could well be supporting something that goes against God’s wishes? I suppose that God might not like the blatant nonsense that Hovind spouts, that discredits His religion, but amigas supports Hovind anyway.
Dear Elethiomel,
It seems odd to me that you don’t understand the very straight forward answers that Gene has given you. Where did you find any Scripture that states we are not to always have a love of all the brethren that have declared Jesus as their Saviour? You do greatly err not knowing the Scriptures on what is or is not the will of God.
Since you don’t seem to have a true recollection of your conversations with amigas, I have copied all of them here together for your benefit. Gene, aka amigas, makes it quite clear that he supports Dr. Hovind as a brother in Christ as do I and many others that know of the love of God that is within this man. Even if I had a wayward son, could the love of a father ever be broken? No, I think not even if we may or may not be happy with all actions of our children, they shall forever be of our flesh and the love of a father constrains us to always seek the perfect will of God in their lives.
Dr. Hovind will be judged by God and that is between God and Dr. Hovind and not you my hostile friend trying to stir up strife. Look back at your comments and the answers already given most adequately by amigas. If you don’t understand all of the comments, I would be more than happy to explain, but I don’t see much reason to go over any further comments with you since it appears that you choose not to understand.
Keep up the good work Gene,
With the love of Christ,
EndTimes
Inna Viller
Said this on June 10th, 2007 at 11:25pm:Dear Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
You Said this at 3:23am:
“I take your point about cynicisms, but it is worth remembering that the bible itself uses them as a rhetorical device on occasions eg. when Elijah is talking to the prophets of baal, he says, where is your god, is he on the toilet and can’t answer you right now? words very much of that effect. There is a time and place even under the sun for Godly cynicisms.”
This is what I found about cynisizm by its definition (The following text is pasted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynical:
“Currently, the word ‘cynicism’ generally describes the opinions of those who maintain that self-interest is the primary motive of human behavior, and are disinclined to rely upon sincerity, human virtue, or altruism as motivations.
Sincerity is the virtue of speaking truly about one’s feelings, thoughts, desires. Sincere expression carries risks to the speaker, since the ordinary screens used in everyday life are opened to the outside world. At the same time, we expect our friends, our lovers, our leaders “to be sincere.”
Virtue (Latin virtus; Greek ἀρετή) is moral excellence of a person. A virtue is a character trait valued as being good. The conceptual opposite of virtue is vice.
According to its etymology the word virtue (Latin virtus) signifies manliness or courage. Taken in its widest sense virtue means the excellence of perfection of a thing, just as vice, its contrary, denotes a defect or absence of perfection due to a thing. In its strictest meaning, however, as used by moral philosophers and theologians, virtue is an operative habit essentially good, as distinguished from vice, an operative habit essentially evil. The four cardinal (hinge) virtues are Justice, Courage, Wisdom, and Moderation. These were enumerated by the Greek philosophers. The three supernatural virtues of Faith, Hope and (unselfish) Love are part of the Christian tradition. Both the natural and supernatural virtues depend on a person’s understanding that truth can be discovered. Modernist views are at odds with this idea.
Altruism is the willful sacrifice of one’s own interests or well-being for the sake of something that is non-self. It is also often defined as being the selfless concern for the welfare of others. It is a traditional virtue in many cultures, and central to many religious traditions.
Altruism can be distinguished from a feeling of loyalty and duty, although both of these are in fact altruistic. Sheer altruism focuses on a motivation to help others without reward, while duty focuses on a moral obligation towards a specific ‘higher’ individual (for example, God, a king), a specific organization (for example, a government), or an abstract concept (for example, patriotism etc). Some individuals may feel altruism without duty, while others may not. Pure altruism is giving without regard to reward or the benefits of recognition.”
Well, I think it gives enough food for thoughts what cynisizm is… I mean for all of us…
May be what you have shared from the Bible is less about cynicism .. but about a different quality … I am not quite sure what it can be… Sarcasm? Let us see what it is by the definition…
But you are right the Bible characters use a lot of sharp linguistic techniques out of despair to make the point… The difference would be whether they seek their own selfish interests, or stay truthful to the Right God and with the true motivation and clean conscience.
Inna Viller
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 1:01am:Dear Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Just a few more definitions on sarcasm… It takes us to IRONY as a literary device (I MEAN IN THE BIBLE)
“Sarcasm from Greek σαρκασμός (sarkasmos), ‘mockery, sarcasm’ is sneering, jesting, or mocking at a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound[1] — stating the opposite of the intended meaning, e.g. using “that’s fantastic” to mean “that’s awful”. It is used mostly in a humorous manner, and is expressed through vocal intonations such as over-emphasizing the actual statement or particular words. Use of sarcasm is sometimes viewed as an expression of concealed anger[2] or annoyance.
Irony is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is a gap or incongruity between what a speaker or a writer says and what is generally understood (either at the time, or in the later context of history). Irony may also arise from a discordance between acts and results, especially if it is striking, and seen by an outside audience. Irony is understood as an aesthetic valuation by an audience, which relies on a sharp discordance between the real and the ideal, and which is variously applied to texts, speech, events, acts, and even fashion. All the different senses of irony revolve around the perceived notion of an incongruity, or a gap, between an understanding of reality, or expectation of a reality, and what actually happens.”
(Pasted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony )
Yes, indeed if irony is expressed in a humorous manner, it cannot hurt or wound no one’s soul — it usually graciousely might bring CONVICTION … like the Lord can do with His Holy Spirit… (I am freewriting here along the flow of my thoughts
However, if irony is conveyed with anger or annoyance PLUS with a selfish interest to win at any cost, hurting unjustly a person nearby, — it usually makes the person the irony is spoken to feel CONDEMNED (not convicted). And as we know, it is not of God…
And the lawyers and the authority people should better know that difference and keep those ethics…
Also the food to meditate on: what makes any government godly? If the government accepts God’s laws, and only God’s laws, and works accordingly to them…
What makes a government ungodly? The answer is obvious… The ungodly government works accordingly individuals’ will, not God’s will. It is a humanistic ruling. That is why nowadays we are getting a lot of ungodly laws negleting God’s absolutes. The multi-billion immoral businesses like porn industry cannot be banned as far as they pay taxes… And quite a BIG taxes too! The law does not recognize its immorality… Everything is perfect!… The porn business promoters do respect the law of taxation… What a model to follow! (I am sarcastic here, as you see, using IRONY
However, how does this business take care of the people’s souls and spirits? IT IS TAKING THEM TO THE HELL!
I do believe there should be an individual approach to each case. And the motives of a business or ministry should be taken into consideration. What purposes does each business or ministry serve? How many prescious lives do they win, reviving people to life, or how many prescious lives do they fail, bringing them either to spiritual or physical death, paralizing whole nations? Then we will avoid immorality in the judicial system, and will gain godliness back… The Period of Christ’s Grace is still valid. He allows cynisism toward morality issues in the legacy system to grow, as much as He gives a chance for the people who serve in that system to awake and repent… He challenges such a system with the cases like Kent Hovind’s case… He exposes at what conditions nowadays people’s values are: do we fight for money to be taxed or for people who all heartedly serve the Lord to win others for the sake of Christ.
I do believe Kent Hovind loves God, not money… What is the indicator of it? How many mansions did he built for himself from the ministry incomes that he held from paying taxes? How many airplanes or boats does he own comparing to some of our all-mighty figures in the world who own more than a billion of people do, … and who can spend crazy money for gambling and prostitutes? I am sorry, but love for money takes usually to much deeper sins like sexual immorality, absuive behavior to others, etc… It is never enough when you love money… When you are focused on money only, you cannot stay proactive and creative to the higher calling in your life… Nothing of these signs I recognize in Kent Hovind…
We do need the morality maximas to be followed, not the money maximas.
If the government and its agencies convict me that they did not spend a single penny un-Constituationally or did not earn a single penny for the National budget from immoral businesses, then, I would not have any issues trusting them with no IRONY… and would have hope that their decisions are based on the highly moral values. GODLY GOVERNMENT IS THE ONE WHO CHOOSES GOD”S LAWS TO BE A PRIORITY AND THE ONLY OPTION…
samuel
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 4:58am:praybird
Said this at 6:39am:
——————————————————————————–
“There have been comments made on the evilness of President Bush, I am not a professional but I do have an opinion.
Recently in the last 2 weeks there were threats made again on the United States and said they would do something if the USA would not leave Iraq. The terrorists also stated that we should stop supporting Israel. There is more at stake here than just Iraq. They are vehemently angry that Israel is being helped and supported by the USA. They have stated over and over again they want to destroy Israel.
God hates Violence, but because of evil men, protection has to come to help the people. From what I understand that is why the USA went to Iraq, was to oust Saddam who out of his own mouth has stated he aided the terrorists. Who compared himself with King Nebecanezzer, of Babylon. Even had coins printed up with his image and Nebecanezzers side by side each other. He had at least 7 gold palaces, paid for by monies that should have went to the people. Evidently at one time he deceived the USA and was helped to get in power there, I don’t know much about that. But he was not voted in, he took Iraq by dictatorship.
Any leader is responsible and accountable to the people he is in authority over. It is amazing to me that Bill Clinton remained popular in spite of the fact he was committing adultry over and over in the White House and God knows what else was going on.
But President Bush is being attacked the likes I have never seen before. When is it called treason? What is treason? The man has been faithful to his wife, and done more good and has kept another attack from happening on our soil. If America were to pull out of Iraq the wrong way, you can count on the terrorists seeing this as a sign of weakness and will attack the USA. Do you think that they will just go away and leave us alone?? Why do you think they attacked on 9-11????
We need to be praying for our President as never before, pray for America, pray for Israel, and pray for the future man who will be in Office. That is my take on this.
We look forward to an update on Kent Hovind. We continue to hold this family up in prayer and support. God bless from Don and Brenda”
Do not put your faith, hope and trust in man, put it all in the Lord
Psalms 2:1-12:
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
The only ruler who will reign supreme on this earth, with true justice, peace and love will be Jesus Christ our Lord. He will rule from Zion, the heavenly city itself, New Jerusalem, which will be here on earth. God will rule the earth and live with us, and we will live with him forever!
See: Revelation, chapters 21 & 22 Galatians 4:26 – Hebrews 11:10,16 – 1Corinthians 2:9 – Isaiah 2:2 – Daniel 2:35b – Ezekiel 28:14b – Relevaltion 14:1 – John 14:2,3
wheelz31ua
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 6:49am:Ho hum so Mr Hovind is imprisoned.Indeed those bones may be 6,000 or 7,000 years old,but they do nothing to relieve hunger or slake the thirst or to ease suffering nor do they free one from sin.Why does the body of Christ spend so much time on that which is so irrelevant?The Apostle Paul said “we preach Jesus Christ only and him crucified”.Perhaps imprisoned Mr Hovind will get to know Jesus Christ and while in prison maybe many of his devotees will get to know him also.
darling
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 9:28am:Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 said this at 9:46pm Jun9:
““Taxable income” is what is being imposed upon or “Every Individual”. I am not “Every Individual” my name is “Phillip-George” (c)1974 All Rights Reserved.”
The law doesn’t count because it doesn’t mention you by name?
“So who is in the real state of denial, you or me?”
That would be you.
darling
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 9:29am:JR Turner said this at 4:01pm Jun9:
“How do we know there is no law making the average working American liable for income tax?”
Certainly not by bearing false witness, as your link does.
Sade Tennyson
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 11:27am:Brother Kent Hovind & Sister Jo,
Peace & grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you at such a time like this.
The Lord is your refuge & fortress & He will without fail sustain you & frustrate all that the enemy of your soul has set out to achieve in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
Remember the Lord is with you when you pass through the waters & when the enemy comes like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord will raise up a standard against him Isa 59:19. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
I pray the Lord will recompense all those who have used craftiness to device devices against you according to the work of their hands in Jesus name. Isa 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
The Host of heaven will continually encamp arround you & your joy &peace shall know no bounds in Jesus mighty name.
Shalom,
Sade Tennyson.
EndTimes
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 7:12pm:WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I missed the entire revocation of the Posse Comitatus Act on the same day that President Bush signed into law the Military Commissions Act. (No wonder, I couldn’t find a single news article about it on a Google search today. It was not at all advertised what was done by these men.) (And some of you insist that conspiracy theories are bogus delusions of paranoid weirdos. I believe that if that is your mindset, you will wake up too late before it is upon you and in your face. Who will you call upon to help you on that day??) Certainly these are the two most dangerous laws in recent times that we know about and they are both filled with treasons against the Constitution and the people of America and for that matter the people of the world. I know that the breaking down of doors in the middle of the night is only waiting for another 911 to occur. I wonder how soon they plan to do that my friends?
The Posse Comitatus Act had up until October 17, 2006 “helped to enforce strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic law enforcement.” In other words, it prevented a central control of the military against its own people which is one of the central tenants of dictatorial powers. This is now gone!!! prior to this, any military use with the National Guard was done by the individual governors. Now the federal government can enact these resources nationally.
We no longer have any Constitutional protections against a despotic government. And so many on this blog don’t believe Dr. Hovind had high principles to take a stand on the issue of church sovereignty based on the Constitution. Well, that likewise is gone as well. It appears to me that on the books and laws of this current government are all the provisions to overnight turn our once principled government into a dictatorial nightmare for not only America but the entire world. Where is America in Bible prophecy anyway??? Hmmmm, perhaps you should look at Revelation 13:11-12 QUITE CLOSELY MY FRIENDS. What is happening to Dr. Hovind is a direct example of what many of us are likely to face soon as well.
The ability to freely criticize our government as we are doing here on this blog has a very short time left. Please don’t be fooled by the Democrats or the Republicans. They are all working under the same authority outside of the Constitution called the Federal Reserve Bank. The only way to understand who controls the “Fed” is through the reading of Bible prophecy. Otherwise you shall and will be deceived. May God grant us ears to hear and eyes to see while it is still day for the night cometh when no man can work!!
http://www.towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/911/
http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=117&a=1431
Keep the upward look for the Coming of the Lord is our only salvation. May God have mercy on the souls of them that will be left behind. Would it be that all of my family and my friends are saved and on their way to heaven. May all of your family and friends be on their way to heaven through the shed blood of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. May all men everywhere come to repentance and accept the only name under heaven unto which men must be saved. God have mercy on us sinners for the time draws nigh.
Arise from sleep my friends, the day is drawing to an end and the night cometh when no man can work. (John 9:4)
Pray, Pray and Pray again for the mercy only to be found in the Lord, God Almighty.
EndTimes
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 7:32pm:To: djhouk [jun10]
thankyou for your patience towards me [I admit I write circumlocutory missives to comprehensively apprehend a topic too big for one library alone] I believe your post is very important!!!
Quoting you: “The trial did, in fact, establish that the folks working at CSE were employees, not missionaries as Kent claimed”.
Unquote: This is the most important line on the entire blog thus far.
A fact, you say, has been established. This is critical to everything. How was this “fact” established.
1. By the “ruling” of a Judge? or
2. By the deliberation and verdict of a sui juris, well instructed, majority of at least 10, determination of a Jury.
You see, I maintain that it was the responsibility of a Jury and a Jury alone to consider both the fact you assert and the “mens rea” – without that “mens rea” there should never have been a conviction.
Quote you: ” It makes his actions even more puzzling.”
Unquote: Isn’t is possible then in your mind that a man should not have been convicted at all?
Isn’t is possible then that Brother Kent simply believes in the plain wording and simple meaning of the Constitution?
Isn’t is possible that he simply lives with a romantic hope for the nation as a whole?
If and only If these things are possible shouldn’t a man be given the benefit of a reasonable doubt?
Rather than destroying a family and a lawful Godly evangelistic ministry [regardless of whether or not you think the biblical literalism is correct] shouldn’t a man be granted that benefit of doubt? And even if a man did wrong shouldn’t they be allowed to “work off” a debt; even if you believe a crime did happen? [personally I believe there was no crime]
If you believe in the Rule of Law cannot you also believe in a Jury determining a Just sentence as well as every important point on which the trial hangs.
Who in this whole affair has really believed in the Rule of Law? Who has really believed in Justice?
Who has believed our report and to whom has the Word of the Lord been revealed?
“darling” has repeatedly rhetorically asked the question “who decides?” A Jury !!!!!!! Repeatedly the founding fathers stressed the importance of a Jury to Judge the Laws being introduced by a legislature. Not just a perceived breach of a piece of the legislation, but the very content and application of legislation itself.
Why, I rhetorically ask, do lawyers seem to consistently defer to Judges in preference to Juries. The system is one hundred percent up side down. The Judge is the public servant to facilitate a fair process. The Jury are the Sovereign Citizens from whom all power in the court derives.
I will say that again; the Jury are the Sovereign Citizens from whom all power in the court derives.
Jesus, please open their eyes. [Jesus, help Me, if I am wrong]
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 8:30pm:to: Inna Viller
Chuck Missler has written on rhetorical devices in the bible and cites 19 century authors. There are hundreds of recognised linguistic devices, schema, figura.
When Jesus called a woman a dog he was not being derogatory. When he described lawyers as white washed sepulchres I think he was. Men perverting justice, Jesus reserved some very harsh language for. There is a biblical judgement and biblical day of reckoning. Jesus used a whip on the money changers of his day – and that was in the epoch of divine grace. How much more shall be poured out upon heathen Christ denying dogs in the day of His Righteous anger and wrath.
thankyou for your post. There is a Hell to shun. Bruised feelings might be a small price in the now to avoid an awful hereafter, a truly rude awakening at the resurrection of the dead.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 9:26pm:To djhouk;
addenda.
my last post did not sit well. There are at least these two questions that need to be pursued; on the basis that justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done.
1. Did the “so-called-employees” of CSE consider themselves to be or bear witness to the effect and testimony that they themselves were simply “employees” in a business?
2. Do the Jurymen, from whom the power of the court derives, believe that Jusice has been done?
thankyou, djhouk
YoCuzwaasup
Said this on June 11th, 2007 at 11:26pm:I think it only fair that if CSE posts Calladus comments on their sight that Calladus, should post my comments and others on theirs. But we know The devil is a liar and children tend to imitate the father. I may be wrong though about Calladus.
Calladus made some common misinterpretations about Ray Comfort. (See Article at his site) This is what I wrote back.
Dear Sir,
I don’t know you, but I am commanded to love you. It is out of our mouth that our words condemn us or set us free. I agree in what you said in the article…”How can I trust that wind exists when I can’t see it? Because I can detect it through other means. I can feel it in my hair and across my skin. I can measure its speed and direction and combined with the proper media I can watch it stir up waves or dust storms. I don’t need to “believe” or “have faith” in the wind. Instead I can accept that what I feel or measure is a natural phenomenon, as opposed to supernatural.”
I also believe what it say’s in the Bible … Romans 1; 18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest- (clear or obvious to the eye or mind) in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes (Wind, love, the 5 senses) are clearly seen- (manifest), being understood by the things that are made, (What we see of don’t see around us) even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, (What are you going to say in the day we ALL stand before Him)? Because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man (Blind leading blind)—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature (man or site like these) rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God (The very one who created you) gave them up (said, O.K. if you don’t want to obey, believe what you want) to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. (Do you see homosexuality today? I personally took care of and buried 4 A.I.D.S. patience’s).
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, ◙ sexual immorality (Adultery, different sex partners. sex with children or animals, etc). Wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, ◙ unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
This is the world we live in today. School shootings, Divorce, sexual sins, and a dis-belief in God.
I don’t hate you, and if I stepped on you toes (What you like to like to interpret as an insult’s) then the Jewdo-Christian thin to do is say “I’m sorry”. It just my love for you to see you not neglect “the sacrifice made for you by the Son of God”
Let me know if you “detect this through those other means”. The soul God gave you. Are you feeling your flesh (skin) wrestle within you? That should acknowledge the Holy Spirit is speaking to you. The Bible says. His sheep hear his voice. You’re hearing a voice, no doubt. Are you hearing His, or … his-s? (HISS)
You don’t have to go to hell.
Accept Messiah
This has nothing to do with Dr. Hovind But a spark from his being grinded at the wheel has set a fire in this dry hay that would have never happened, if this man did not make us aware. Did he do wrong? I don’t think so. He is a patriot. A fighter for truth. But in this day and age that thought is suppressed with threats and jail. There are no more heroes’. These are the last days. Be ready to suffer Believer.
Sade Tennyson
Said this on June 12th, 2007 at 2:58am:Hello brother Paul Abramson,
Kindly give us a little info on brother Kent Hovind.
The joy of our Lord Jesus will remain your strength.
Brother Kent Hovind, I pray the Lord will give you the needed grace to persevere & endure all he has permitted & remember His grace is sufficient for you.
They can hurt your body but they do not have power over your soul. I pray you will receive supernatural strength that will preserve your spirit.
God is on the throne & he will uphold you with the right hand of his righteousness in Jesus name.
Sade Tennyson.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: I have no new word, but I will again ask that if there are two posts to be made that the story go up first, followed (a day later if need be) by Dr. Hovind's situation. EVERYONE is most interested in his situation and developments, in order to better pray for the situation. IMHO the stories are secondary, to be read later. P.A. ]
Sade Tennyson
Said this on June 12th, 2007 at 3:28am:Brethren in Jesus Christ on this blog,
Kindly pray along that truth will prevail in brother Kent Hovind & Siter Jo’s case.
The enemy fights very dirty but our Lord Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth & the life will prevail & bring all hidden work of darkness into light in Jesus name. Amen.
Kindly check this link http://www.penaltyprotestor.org/files/JHovindMotionStayForfeitureFiled.pdf and PRAY that the Lord Jesus the righteous advocate will defend brother Kent Hovind & sister Jo & that the 10 points listed will result in reversal decision in Jesus name. Amen.
LET TRUTH PREVAIL LORD IN JESUS NAME. AMEN.
Sade Tennyson
samuel
Said this on June 12th, 2007 at 3:57am:Hi everyone, I just wanted to share this with you all as it really touched my heart. (Note to P.A. this bears no copyright, please do post!
)
The Smell of rain.
A cold March wind danced around the dead of night in Dallas as
the doctor walked into the small hospital room of Diana Blessing. She
was still groggy from surgery.
Her husband, David, held her hand as they braced themselves for
the latest news.
That afternoon of March 10, 1991, complications had forced Diana,
only 24-weeks pregnant, to undergo an emergency Cesarean to deliver
couple’s new daughter, Dana Lu Blessing.
At 12 inches long and weighing only one pound nine ounces, they
already knew she was perilously premature.
Still, the doctor’s soft words dropped like bombs.
“I don’t think she’s going to make it,” he said, as kindly as he
could.
“There’s only a 10-percent chance she will live through the
night, and even then, if by some slim chance she does make it, her
future could be a very cruel one”
Numb with disbelief, David and Diana listened as the doctor
described the devastating problems Dana would likely face if she
survived.
She may never walk, she may never talk, she would probably be
blind, and she would certainly be prone to other catastrophic conditions
from cerebral palsy to complete mental retardation, and on and on.
“No! No!” was all Diana could say.
She and David, with their 5-year-old son Dustin, had long dreamed
of the day they would have a daughter to become a family of four.
Now, within a matter of hours, that dream was slipping away
But as those first days passed, a new agony set in for David and
Diana. Because Dana’s underdeveloped nervous system was essentially
‘raw’, the lightest kiss or caress only intensified her discomfort, so
they couldn’t even cradle their tiny baby girl against their chests to
offer the strength of their love.
All they could do, as Dana struggled alone beneath the
ultraviolet light in the tangle of tubes and wires, was to pray that God
would stay close to their precious little girl.
There was never a moment when Dana suddenly grew stronger.
But as the weeks went by, she did slowly gain an ounce of weight
here and an ounce of strength there.
At last, when Dana turned two months old. her parents were able
to hold her in their arms for the very first time.
And two months later, though doctors continued to gently but
grimly warn that her chances of surviving, much less living any kind of
normal life, were next to zero, Dana went home from the hospital, just
as her mother had predicted.
Five years later, when Dana was a petite but feisty young girl
with glittering gray eyes and an unquenchable zest for life.
She showed no signs whatsoever of any mental or physical
impairment. Simply, she was everything a little girl can be and more.
But that happy ending is far from the end of her story.
One blistering afternoon in the summer of 1996 near her home in
Irving, Texas, Dana was sitting in her mother’s lap in the bleachers of
a local ball park where her brother Dustin’s baseball team was
practicing.
As always, Dana was chattering nonstop with her mother and
several other adults sitting nearby when she suddenly fell silent.
Hugging her arms across her chest, little Dana asked, “Do you smell
that?”
Smelling the air and detecting the approach of a thunderstorm,
Diana replied, “Yes, it smells like rain.”
Dana closed her eyes and again asked, “Do you smell that?”
Once again, her mother replied, “Yes dear, I think we’re about to get
wet. It smells like rain.”
Still caught in the moment, Dana shook her head, patted her thin
shoulders with her small hands and loudly announced,
“No, it smells like Him.
It smells like God when you lay your head on His chest.”
Tears blurred Diana’s eyes as Dana happily hopped down to play
with the other children.
Before the rains came, her daughter’s words confirmed what Diana
and all the members of the extended Blessing family had known, at least
in their hearts, all along.
During those long days and nights of her first two months of her
life, when her nerves were too sensitive for them to touch her, The Lord was
holding Dana on His chest and it is His loving scent that she remembers
so well.
“But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;” Malachi 4:2
“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.” Philippians 4:13
“God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength.” Job 37:5-6
“Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.” Hosea 6:3
“Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” James 5:7-8
This morning when the Lord opened a window to Heaven, He saw me,
and He asked: “My child, what is your greatest prayer for today?”
I responded:
“Lord please, bless the person who is reading this, their family, friends and loved ones.
They deserve it and I love them very much” The love of God is like an endless ocean, you can see its beginning, but not its end.
ANGELS DO EXIST but some times, since they don’t all have wings, we pass them in the street unaware, or they walk past us with a smile and a loving stare.
God bless and keep you all in his eternal love and grace.
Sam.
FuManchu
Said this on June 12th, 2007 at 7:31am:Aussie P-G,
You mentioned Chuck Missler. Would that be the Chuck Missler who made such a fool of himself claiming that peanut butter disproved the Theory of Evolution?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504
One can only surmise that he was expecting a tentacle to dart out of the jar and grab him by the throat or something along those lines.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Here is Dr. Missler's excellent web site: http://www.khouse.org P.A. ]
Maturekid
Said this on June 12th, 2007 at 1:14pm:Thanks Sade for the penalty protestor link, it makes for interesting reading as those counts are the most questionable. I hadn’t checked up on that site for a bit. Should be interesting to see how it all plays out both at the District level and the above courts.
Does anyone have credible information regarding their attorney Jerold Barringer? I can’t seem to find much.
Thanks,
Maturekid
ukulelemike
Said this on June 12th, 2007 at 2:43pm:I haven’t read all the blog entries, and don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but here is an interesting comparison: When “Rev.” Sun Myung Moon, leader and founder of the Unification Church, (Moonies), was arrested for tax evasion, and we’re talking millions of dollars, he got an 18 month sentence-18 MONTHS! And he probably didn’t serve it all. Now, a couple years ago, he was crowned, yes, crowned, King of Peace in one of our own congressional buildings in Washington DC by members of congress, both parties, and many religious leaders. And Kent Hovind, a good man who, at the worst, made a mistake with who he hired to advise him on his taxes, owning less than $50,000.00 in taxes, is given 10 years, and has been sent into solitary in a maximum security facility, that holds murderers and such. Go figure!
Jason
Said this on June 12th, 2007 at 2:52pm:EndTimes
Said this at 9:42pm:
But I’ve come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I’m afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security.”
(Note, who is the ONLY American president who was a former CIA director and who is his son??)
Playboy interview, Jim Garrison, 1967!! (Next to last paragraph)
http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison4.html
__________
Below is a page of a history website, where the question is asked …. How did Germany descend so quickly into becoming a dictatorship?
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Nazi_Germany_dictatorship.htm
To summarise;
History tells of Hitler, entering office in free and fair elections, yet within just 3-6 months, Germany was a one party state dictatorship. The method used by Hitler to do this was terrorism….
The Reichstag building burned down (an act of terrorism hitting the heart of Germany), Hitler blamed the communists (I guess terrorists at that time were called communists). President Hindenburg then gave Hitler emergency powers to Protect the “People and the State”.
Hitler (and his cronies) were the real terrorists, they created the problem (burning down the Reichstag).
The people of Germany reacted fearing a communist takeover (again I guess that, since it hadn’t been so long since the Russian revolution, the fear was real).
The solution was to give Hitler the power to fight the perceived threat on behalf of the people. Hitler became the ‘Hero’ of the hour, the only man ready & prepared to fight such an evil.
The plan worked brilliantly, Hitler took the stance that you were either with him or with the terrorists. All visible opposition was quelled.
Just to note… Hitler never lost power through the will of the German people, Hitler lost power through Germany being invaded.
There is nothing to say that this same plan that Hitler used, with a little adaptation due to modern media (internet freedoms etc) couldn’t happen today.
If the plan was enacted within a nation which would was more powerful and harder to invade…. It might actually stand the test of time (that would be of course until Jesus returned).
_____________
I am glad to know that Jesus is alive, He is resurrected, and now we have hope (Death where is your sting
).
There is nothing which man can do with the liberty that God gave him which is beyond God’s hand to deal with.
I don’t fear those in the world, for He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.
_____________
PS. To the Hovind Family, Thankyou for the blessings you have given to me & my family, I’m looking forward to a time when these troubles are history.
Lots of Love
Jason x
EndTimes
Said this on June 12th, 2007 at 6:27pm:Samphire
Said this at 9:59am:
“Poor Old Endtimes,
President Bush makes a not unreasonable belated provision to protect the safety of Americans from natural disaster (Katrina), terrorism (9/11), or insurrection (EndTimeans protesting with guns and bazookas at the failure of Christ to return) and suddenly the numba of the Dubya is 666.
But it isn’t, so there is no need to panic. Just yet, anyway.
A dirty nuclear bomb or a biological weapon will have no respect for Nutbush City limits and it is the first duty of any President to ensure the safety of his country’s citizens. Katrina proved how inefficient the National Guard was when uncoordinated by the limitations imposed by the Posse Comitatus Act so perhaps its abolition is long overdue. Given that you Yanks have an average of 17(is it?) guns per family you should be able to well protect yourselves from any of your own sons, brothers and fathers who are in the National Guard.
Endtimes, you have been watching too many KH seminars. He has exactly the same error on one of his Powerpoint slides. 700 talks a year and he still hasn’t spotted it. Perhaps Eric has.
Why would anybody stop the population from working? The lesson of history is that dictators can never get enough workers. Anyway – you told us earlier that you haven’t worked for some years.”
My dear Samphire,
I have finally figured out who your famous English relative is. I guess you won’t see the danger of the American fascist government any more than did your compatriot in arms and thought, Mr. Neville Chamberlain who apparently was your grandfather.
I hope you really don’t think that I am a raving lunatic to cherish freedom and peace that could be stamped out at the hand of one single man on his own whim by immensely dangerous powers of law in a modern “democracy.” Sorry to be blunt, but we Yanks did cherish freedom and took that proposition to the bank in our Revolutionary war. Those that don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it. We are a little over the 50 year limit on that supposition since WWII. Nope, the clouds of war are always forecast quite a bit ahead of time. I hope no one on this blog still operates under the delusion that Americans or even Englishmen visiting America have any guaranteed rights any more. If there is some one that wishes to abrogate your “lawful” constitutional rights, they can by law. Imagine that here in the land of the free and the brave. If this does not give you the willies given the history of atrocities at the hands of dictatorial governments in the last 200 years alone, then I truly don’t understand what principles of liberty that you do support.
I wonder what great emergency will trash the constitution completely in what I expect to be the very near future. They are probably in the planning and implementation stages as we talk. (Who do I mean by “they”??) I guess you have forgotten all about the German Reichstag , The US Maine, and the burning of Rome by Nero which were used as an excuse for crises management. Hmmmm, you seem to have a pretty narrow knowledge of proven conspiracies. What about Pearl Harbor as well. Sorry, but these things are sadly well documented and are not from the imagination of lunatics dreaming up conspiracy theories.
Katrina you say. Do you believe that we couldn’t even drive a National Guard vehicle to the same locations that dozens of reporters easily did? That wasn’t the capability of the Army that I was once in. Perhaps the Coast Guard was not able to get even one boat up the Mississippi to where the Dome is located right by the river for 5 days. Hmmm, what an inept and incompetent military we have. Wow, I guess we should trash the constitution and that will make everyone in America and the rest of the world safer. My dear Samphire, if that is what you wish to believe, then go ahead. Take a look at Chamberlain’s legacy.
“Chamberlain’s political legacy is marked by his dealings with and appeasement of Nazi Germany. He signed the Munich Agreement with Adolf Hitler in 1938, which effectively allowed Germany to annex the Czech Sudetenland. Shortly thereafter, Hitler occupied the remainder of Czechoslovakia, technically his first international act of aggression, and the first step on the road to World War II. Chamberlain entered into a Mutual Defense Pact with Poland, but was unable to do anything directly when Germany invaded it six days later on 1st September 1939. Nevertheless, Chamberlain delivered an ultimatum to Hitler, declared war on Germany on 3 September and launched attacks on German shipping on September 4. During the period now known as “The Phony War” until May 1940 Chamberlain sent a 300,000 strong British Expeditionary Force to Belgium. (This force was lightly armed and later had to be ignominiously rescued from the beaches of Dunkirk).
Chamberlain was forced to resign the premiership on 10 May 1940, after Germany invaded the Netherlands, Belgium and France. He was succeeded by Winston Churchill but remained very well regarded in Parliament. He had a key role in the formation of the Special Operations Executive. Chamberlain died of cancer six months after leaving office.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain
I’m sorry Samphire, but you have not done yourself proud on your last diatribe against me. I was under the impression that you defended the concept of freedom and liberty. Well, perhaps I was wrong about that assessment. Perhaps the London fog is again blotting out the fascist storm clouds that were once on the horizon in 1938 and are now once again forming over another place in the Atlantic. That leaves the world with only one source of hope that you have rejected and continue to reject. If not for the evidence of the witness of God, I would leave you completely to your own views and not question a one of them. But alas, the witness of God is greater than the witness of man.
I truly seek your salvation with all of my heart and with great compassion for the countless prayers of your beautiful mother.
EndTimes
P.S. It is only two guns in my household thank you. I wanted more, but the Lord would not allow it. Sorry, but I grew up in Alaska and it was the habit and practice of any reasonably intelligent man to carry an equalizer for old griz.
GORGE
Said this on June 13th, 2007 at 4:39pm:Dear Endtimes
You said
“Imagine that here in the land of the free and the brave.”
I think Dr. Hovinds Adaptation on the saying is a gooden, which reads as follows;
“The land of the fee and the home of the slave.”
trueblue
Said this on June 13th, 2007 at 10:40pm:Mr. Endtimes.
Enjoy reading your posts.
I’m going to Alaska next week and will be camping.
Any pointers for protecting myself from those bears?
I’ve got the spray, since Canada makes it difficult for me to take my
gun.
EndTimes
Said this on June 14th, 2007 at 12:06pm:Dear trueblue,
I left Alaska when I was 10 but have enjoyed hunting and fishing and camping since from Maine to Colorado. Food, food, food protection is the most important part of any campsite. Secondly, hook up with someone familiar with the terrain that you are going into, take your bear pepper spray (30 feet for 10 seconds spray, don’t settle for something less. All members in your party should have the spray) and get real smart on how smart these animals really are. Attacks are almost always preventable with proper preparation and a great deal of respect for them. However, it is moose that actually kill more people every year in car accidents. Alaska is a great place but treat it with great respect. 2 of my childhood friends died in the elements in their late twenties and early thirties and they were experts since early in life in the outdoors. Beautiful place but still quite wild.
EndTimes