Since the conclusion of the November 2006 trial against her and her husband, Dr. Kent Hovind, Mrs. Hovind has been awaiting sentencing. Although under travel restrictions and a time of anxious waiting, she is grateful that the wait has been from her home. Her sentencing date was postponed several times, but is now scheduled for Friday morning, June 29 at 9:00 a.m.
Mrs. Hovind is a very private person, and does not desire to be in the spotlight. Her role has always been as one of the support team whether, cleaning, cooking, or typing. Not wanting to be in the forefront, and yet knowing that the prayers of a righteous man availeth much, she and CSE humbly ask for your prayers concerning her sentencing.
To those who have been praying, the CSE Team express our deepest appreciation.
I agree. The conspiricy theories (911, Chem Trails, etc.), the vaccinations and worst of all and the most fatal, the tax laws did get up my nose a little. I am not quite in the KJV only camp myself. Though I do think he (along with many others) makes a good point. My problem is it is difficult to read. I know people have talked about the theory about how many words it has with x number of consonants(I forget the specifics) which therefore means that it is easier to read. But I have tried several times and still struggle with even Ray Comfort’s Easy Reading “Comfort”able version. I do go to the KJV when I am doing more serious studying or looking up a verse that I am particularly interested in. One other thing that I did not particularly like was the argument about the star distance. Which was that we can’t measure the distance. Whether we can measure the distance accurately or not is irrelevant because you just can’t fit that many stars inside 6000 light years (I did the math once and it works out to about 1 star every cubic mile or so). And the closest star (besides the sun) is 4 light years away (Alpha Centauri). So Adam would not have seen any stars for the first 4-10 years of his life. And it is obvious from scripture that he saw a sky full of stars (Gen 1:17). So I do not have a problem with the fact that God can both make a galaxy full of stars out of nothing (we can’t even make 1 molecule out of nothing) and manage to arrange it so that we can see it all…first day (well, fourth day to be precise).
But I do still miss listening to his radio show. I still listen to the seminars while I am driving and I still watch his debates. After seeing them more than 5 times each, I still find them entertaining and motivational. I pray as often as I can for his release so I can listen to his show and call in and email questions again.
Does anyone have an update on Mrs. Hovind? The sentencing was last Friday, so someone should know by now.
Dear Ekkman, Endtimes, Paul and the many other brothers in Christ that post here. Even though we occasionally argue about which side, we part our hair on. It would be nice to get together and have coffee and Bible study. I’ve learned alot from posting and reading here. I think the only way we’ll get to meet on this earth, is if we’re lined up on the wall together. I can’t believe that Mrs. Hovind was sent to prison as an alleged tax protester(what first ammendment???). Where is baliset’s commemt on this? That would be vivid paranoia that lands you in prison. Our posts here show that we believe and know the truth. Very soon if not already, prisons and “showers” are being built just for us. With love your brother in Christ
P.S. to baliset when you plagarize me on your website please give me credit!!
Jul 3 eecreationist
Said this at 6:41am:
1) “I agree. The conspiricy theories (911, Chem Trails, etc.), the vaccinations and worst of all and the most fatal, the tax laws did get up my nose a little.”
Please read Psalm 2 and then go to the Apotheosis of Washington. Yes, conspiracy theories are not theories when the Bible prophecies speak of them 3 thousand years before they occur, they are simply fact. I wouldn’t place your trust in your current rulers. See Psalm 118:8-9.
2) “I am not quite in the KJV only camp myself. Though I do think he (along with many others) makes a good point. My problem is it is difficult to read. I know people have talked about the theory about how many words it has with x number of consonants(I forget the specifics) which therefore means that it is easier to read. But I have tried several times and still struggle with even Ray Comfort’s Easy Reading “Comfort”able version. I do go to the KJV when I am doing more serious studying or looking up a verse that I am particularly interested in.”
Again, you need to have an understanding of Revelation 2:16 as well as Revelation 3:7-13 which speak of the work done by King James. (Hint, look up the political findings of King James over the “gunpowder plot.”) Pray over it and read it from the KJV and compare Scripture with Scripture and then look into the history of the church over the last 2000 from a good source. The Trail of Blood by J.M. Carroll is an excellent resource.
http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm
If you listen to the so called Bible prophecy experts, you will never see the simple truths of Revelation. Instead, the Bible interprets itself. (Isaiah 28:9-13, II Peter 1:20-21, II Corinthians 13:1, I Thessalonians 5:21, I John 2: 27) All wisdom and knowledge comes from the Father above. (James 1:17) All understanding is through the Spirit. (I Corinthians 2: 6-16) So, ask the Lord Himself who will give you the understanding of His Holy Word if you will only ask Him. (James1:5-8). So as in all things of the Bible, it is a matter of faith in believing that His Word is the TRUE, LITERAL WORD OF GOD. If you come before Him doubting that His Word is the truth, He will not teach you ANYTHING WHATSOEVER!!!
3) “One other thing that I did not particularly like was the argument about the star distance. Which was that we can’t measure the distance. Whether we can measure the distance accurately or not is irrelevant because you just can’t fit that many stars inside 6000 light years (I did the math once and it works out to about 1 star every cubic mile or so). And the closest star (besides the sun) is 4 light years away (Alpha Centauri). So Adam would not have seen any stars for the first 4-10 years of his life. And it is obvious from scripture that he saw a sky full of stars (Gen 1:17). So I do not have a problem with the fact that God can both make a galaxy full of stars out of nothing (we can’t even make 1 molecule out of nothing) and manage to arrange it so that we can see it all…first day (well, fourth day to be precise).”
II Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Dear eecreationist, the Bible states quite clearly that the stars and the sun and the moon and Adam and Eve had the “appearance of age” from the beginning. Why do you buy into the evolutionist paradox that God is somehow lying to us because the stars were made with the appearance of age? This is simply not true. God proved to Adam that He was the Creator by creating all of the animals in the Garden of Eden for Adam to name. Thus, there was no need to know the “age” of the universe for Adam since the evolution/creation debate was preposterous for Adam to contemplate. He observed in Genesis chapter 2 the creative power of God on the sixth day. Adam, came fully equipped and didn’t grow into the garden of Eden. The trees were fully formed.
We likewise see the same creative power in Jesus with the feeding of the 5000 with fully “grown” fish. Likewise, the wine had the appearance of age even though he just created it from water at the wedding in Cana of Galilee. I don’t ever bite into theological doctrines without proving them first, but the so called argument of the “appearance of age” has much scriptural support. I hope that this is helpful.
In kindness,
EndTimes
Thanks to all who replied to my post. Looks like I hit a nerve …
I am not saying that the KJV is a bad translation. I am saying that it is unscholarly to say that it is the only reliable translation. Here’s something to think about …
1. Foremost, we feel that the KJV is an EXCELLENT translation, but not the ONLY excellent translation.
2. In over 90 percent of the New Testament, readings are identical word-for-word, regardless of the family. Of the remaining ten percent, MOST of the differences between the texts are fairly irrelevant, such as calling the Lord “Christ Jesus” instead of “Jesus Christ,” or putting the word “the” before a noun. Less than two percent would significantly alter the meaning of a passage, and NONE of them would contradict or alter any of the basic points of Christian doctrine. What we have, then, is a dispute concerning less than one-half of one percent of the Bible. The other 99.5% we all agree on!
3. Because there are over 14,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament we can absolutely be confident of its accuracy. With this large number of manuscripts, comparing manuscripts easily reveals any place where a scribe has made an error or where there is a variation. There are approximately 150,000 variations in the manuscripts we have today. However, these variations represent only 10,000 places in the New Testament (if the same word was misspelled in 3,000 manuscripts, that is counted as 3,000 variations.) Of these 10,000 places, all but 400 are questions of spelling in accord with accepted usage, grammatical construction, or order of words. Of the remaining variations, only 50 are of significance (such as two manuscripts leaving out Acts 2:37). But of these 50, not one alters even one article of faith which cannot be abundantly sustained by other undoubted passages. There are some manuscripts that date as early as 130 AD, very close to the completion of the New Testament. These manuscripts are nearly identical to those dating 900 years later, thus verifying the accuracy of the scribes.
4. These advocates reject all others Bible’s that post-date the KJV.
5. They believe that the KJV is not only inspired in the original language, but also in the translation process.
6. This claim of an inspired translation process is not made for any other Bible translation.
7. Only a very tiny fraction of people who use the KJV actually believe that the translation process was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
8. We feel that the KJV is to be classed as one of several major standards of Bible translations including, NASB, RSV, NKJV, ASV, NIV. All these translations are equal in quality and all should be used for Bible study.
9. The TR itself was based on a very few, late scripts, not one of which contained the entire Greek New Testament and none earlier than the 12th century. In the matter of the book of Revelation, a missing page was translated from the Latin Vulgate BACK to the Greek. Acts 9:6 although found in the Latin Vulgate, and thus the TR is found in no Greek manuscript at all. In light of its obvious shortcomings, a greater number of older and more complete manuscripts were used in the translation of subsequent versions (post-1881)} (The KJV Debate: A Plea for Realism, D.A. Carson)
And some questions to think about …
# Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769.
# What Bible would these KJV worshippers recommend since before 1611 there was no Bible.
# Do they realize that the apostle Paul did not use the KJV.
# Why do KJV only advocates reject the apocrypha, since the original 1611 version contained the apocrypha?
# If God always gives the world his word in one language (as KJV advocates say of English), then the KJV is certainly not that language, for God chose Koine GREEK not ENGLISH to reveal his New Covenant!
# If God gave us the KJV as an inspired translation, why would God not repeat the process again in modern language in each language?
# If God supervised the translation process so that the KJV is 100% error free, why did God not extend this supervision to the printers?
# Why did the KJV translators use marginal note showing alternate translation possibilities? If the English of the KJV is inspired of God, there would be no alternates!
# If the KJV translators were inspired of God in their work, why did they not know it?
# Why were all the marginal notes and alternate readings removed from modern editions of the KJV, along with the Apocrypha, the opening Dedication to James I, and a lengthy introduction from “The Translators to the Reader.”?
it is my opinion that is it not wise to label the KJV as the only reliable translation. Also, I feel it is not wise to make fun of and call people names who do not agree with you. Doing so hurts the very gospel that you are trying to share with them. In my opinion, Kent disrespects people in the way he presents his seminar. Again, just my opinion, but I believe this is not a wise or godly approach in sharing God’s precious gospel with those who are lost.
This is sad news about Mrs. Hovind. It must be worse pain for Kent than anything else he’s experienced thus far in any jail cell…?
I suppose somewhere along the line some big IRS tax honcho got the “OK” to “shake a finger” at the Hovinds “as an example to others”….
An example of what I’m not sure?
While I am praying for Kent and Jo, I must also point out to all viewing these notes – take a lesson from this…
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ”
(Galatians 5:22-23)
Be bold when proclaiming the Gospel to others, but remain diligent that the fruit you are producing is as outlined above. This world can often get under our skin, but we can’t let it get the best of us, only to be shown an example… of course God is sovereign and will use you regardless – if you are truly walking with the Lord!!!!!!!!
Peace.
J
Hi Ekkman,
I apologise if I have quoted you out of context but I don’t think you have totally understood me; I will try to explain what I mean.
Samuel,
You quoted me ‘out of context’ by what I see. (Please read past blogs.) I was saying to people that we need to be walking in the Spirit if we expect the Lord to hear our prayers.
Yes we do need to be walking with the Lord and be close to him for many reasons, not just for prayer, but I guess my point is, some people are closer to the Lord then others and our relationship with him is largely based on how much time we spend with him in the spirit. The verse you quoted from the Psalms just looked a bit inappropriate for the prayer request blog and perhaps I took it the wrong way, I’m sorry if this is the case.
All I was saying is we should pray without ceasing, regardless of how close we are or think we are to the Lord. How else do you make a stronger connection with him? Prayer, praise and reading his word with a hungry heart seeking the truth! Always pray everyone, regardless how near or far you are from the Lord, he hears and he answers! Pray that he draws you nearer!
Samuel,
I wanted to deal with the above comment a little. If you read the word, you will find plenty of debating, arguing and the like all through it. True believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are and will be at odds with the world. This place is not our home, we are passing through. We have a better kingdom awaiting us but we are to stand for truth while we are here. As said before, preaching the gospel causes division. The Lord Jesus Christ caused division most places he went. He told us that we are either with him or against him. There is no middle ground. Paul debated, argued with many believers and non believers. Truth sets us free. We must speak, stand for truth at all costs. Are you willing to debate and argue with others if you have truth and you know it can set them free? Sometimes standing for truth isn’t easy. It will cost us something.
Paul put it this way. “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Gal 4:16 Be willing to become an enemy to others by walking in truth, don’t build a plastic relationship by living in lies, deceit, confusion, and the like. I read a sign out here that says, “Preach the gospel always! If necessary use words.” I started thinking, ‘Are they serious?” You can’t preach the gospel without words. I see what they were trying to say but it wasn’t said correctly and that was sad. Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.
Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.
Now you have taken me out of context: P I didn’t mean let’s preach the gospel with smiles, fluffy bunnies and love hearts only. Or do it at a distance without speaking. Or don’t speak the truth as to not offend anyone. This is NOT what I mean.
You can lead a horse to water, but if it isn’t thirsty, it won’t drink. The Lord stands at the door and knocks; he doesn’t use a battering ram. He speaks in a soft loving voice and if any man hears it, he will come in.
You cannot “prove” God exists empirically, or that creation occurred empirically. ALL of the belief systems in this world, regardless of how feasible they are have to be trusted with a certain amount of FAITH. I was more directing my comments to people who continually entertain non-believers and others who frequently visit this blog (whom I suspect do, simply to argue with, annoy, and bad mouth believers).
It’s like an I’M RIGHT YOURE WRONG – LOOK AT THE PROOF situation on both sides and this is not how you preach the gospel in my opinion. The gospel should be preached in word, deed and truth. Self righteousness is the number 1 turn off for ANYONE being witnessed to.
Ekkman said this”
“Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.”
If your life lined up with the law and truth of God exactly you would be God himself, ALL have sinned saved or unsaved, ALL will sin saved or not saved. Sin entered the world through one mans sin and death through sin. We are still bound to this world but we do not have to be conformed, we renew our mind and spirits with the Word of God. It just looks a little bit like you are saying, unless your life conforms exactly to the how the Bible says we should live our life then don’t witness, if that was true, NO ONE should witness as NO ONE is perfect.
It just looks as though grace, forgiveness and mercy is being preached on one hand and law, condemnation and justice on the other. Who did Jesus die for again? ALL? Not just the “good”? Did he come to get the righteous into heaven? No! the sinners to repentance!
Again, I am NOT insinuating sinning under grace, we should do our best to live up to Jesus Christ’s example and try to be the best we can with compassion, understanding, mercy, hope and love. But not condemn or let ourselves be put down for besetting sins or mistakes we make along the walk of life with the Lord. He still forgives and loves us. We are his Children now and he deals with us in the ways he sees fit.
You really don’t think that because you are born again you are now perfect do you? Well if you do you are mistaken.
Speaking for myself, there are many mistakes I make along the road of life, many things I am learning and understanding and still will be until I meet the Lord in the next life. I am, although now saved through the grace of God, a worthless sinner, STILL counting on our Lord Jesus Christ to save me. Only he can, and only he will.
Dear Jason, I’m sorry if I came across as nitpicking and yes you are right mans words are fallible, but remember mans words are also in the bible and ALL men are fallible. Only Jesus was not. This is not meant to say that the Bible is fallible. But as Kent Hovind says in one of his seminars, BIBLE = Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. We only see through a glass darkly at present and all will be revealed in the hereafter.
I have to run now as its getting late.
God bless and keep you all! Sorry if I have rambled a bit, annoyed or offended anyone with my posts but this is how I feel.
Sam.
In reply to: jesusistruth
Please do a search for “The trail of blood” it is good read for any brother in Christ. Majority is not always right, even so this is one of the founding points for many religions including the Muslims (mob rules, democracy)and the Roman Catholic church (the catechism opens with: majority is not always right, but how can a billion people be wrong). Bible translations don’t have to be very far off to change the entire meaning. For instance: “I try to love all my brothers in Christ no matter how they part their hair” I change it to “I try not to love all my brothers in Christ no matter how they part their hair” I changed about 6% of the comment but 100% of the meaning and the entire meaning of anything that follows.
With love Three Crosses
4jesusistruth
Said this at 1:01am:
———————————————————————– ———
Thanks to all who replied to my post. Looks like I hit a nerve …
More than likely, it was God’s nerve that you hit. I will try to explain that as I go on and deal with some of the things in this blog without getting wordy. So for now I will give short concise answers.
I am not saying that the KJV is a bad translation. I am saying that it is unscholarly to say that it is the only reliable translation. Here’s something to think about …
I would say the opposite. To say that all bibles or most of them or even a few of them are all the word of God even though they contradict each other in thousands of places would be very unscholarly. I have read most of the comments below on other web sites which you probably cut off and pasted here. That is fine if you have really studied the issue and came up with the same beliefs.
I would like to ask you a question. Since Jesus Christ is called the Word of God made flesh and just about everything that is applied to the word of God called scripture is applied to the God in flesh.
1. Foremost, we feel that the KJV is an EXCELLENT translation, but not the ONLY excellent translation.
I have read that comment not only on many web sites but in reality when I get to talking to them via e-mail, I see that they really hate the KJV and if you would like, I could probably e-mail you hundreds of debates that I have gotten into regarding different sites.
2. In over 90 percent of the New Testament, readings are identical word-for-word, regardless of the family. Of the remaining ten percent, MOST of the differences between the texts are fairly irrelevant, such as calling the Lord “Christ Jesus” instead of “Jesus Christ,” or putting the word “the” before a noun. Less than two percent would significantly alter the meaning of a passage, and NONE of them would contradict or alter any of the basic points of Christian doctrine. What we have, then, is a dispute concerning less than one-half of one percent of the Bible. The other 99.5% we all agree on!
Did you know that a 10% are thousands of differences and those differences are really based on two of the most corrupt manuscripts that we have, the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, Aleph and B. They are old but they are also corrupt to the hilt, so to speak. They contradict in many ways. The links below are just a few, a very few of the contradictions from a small study that I put together without going very deep into the differences.
http://ekkcom.net/alexcult.htm by Peter Ruckman
http://ekkcom.net/one-prct.htm by G.A. Riplinger
http://ekkcom.net/kjvfight.htm by Gary Freeman
These next three were written my me.
http://ekkcom.net/niv-kjv.htm
http://ekkcom.net/niv-kjv.htm
http://ekkcom.net/niv-word.htm
This one is one of my favorites. Really think about this one as you are reading it. It is packed with super important information.
http://ekkcom.net/answer.htm
3. Because there are over 14,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament we can absolutely be confident of its accuracy. With this large number of manuscripts, comparing manuscripts easily reveals any place where a scribe has made an error or where there is a variation. There are approximately 150,000 variations in the manuscripts we have today. However, these variations represent only 10,000 places in the New Testament (if the same word was misspelled in 3,000 manuscripts, that is counted as 3,000 variations.) Of these 10,000 places, all but 400 are questions of spelling in accord with accepted usage, grammatical construction, or order of words. Of the remaining variations, only 50 are of significance (such as two manuscripts leaving out Acts 2:37). But of these 50, not one alters even one article of faith which cannot be abundantly sustained by other undoubted passages. There are some manuscripts that date as early as 130 AD, very close to the completion of the New Testament. These manuscripts are nearly identical to those dating 900 years later, thus verifying the accuracy of the scribes.
Dealing with this, read the above link on the “one-prct.htm”
4. These advocates reject all others Bible’s that post-date the KJV.
True! Because they come from the wrong manuscript line and have many, many mistakes, changes, contradictions in them.
5. They believe that the KJV is not only inspired in the original language, but also in the translation process.
Some do, some don’t. Some say inspired, some say preserved. I hope you read the link above to help with this problem. The “answer.htm”
6. This claim of an inspired translation process is not made for any other Bible translation.
Wrong manuscript evidence. You can never get a perfect bible, not even a good one from the wrong evidence. Here is a good class to take on the Manuscript Evidence
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/holland.htm
7. Only a very tiny fraction of people who use the KJV actually believe that the translation process was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Answered above. But what does that say anyway? The majority is hardly ever right in the word of God, it is usually a small group, a remnant, who stays true to God and his word all through time.
8. We feel that the KJV is to be classed as one of several major standards of Bible translations including, NASB, RSV, NKJV, ASV, NIV. All these translations are equal in quality and all should be used for Bible study.
I really want to get into this with you but it will take big space on the blog so it might be better if we talked via e-mail. If you would like to do that then please go to my web site. Thanks! I can show you quite a bit of ultra spooky things in the “bibles” that you mentioned above.,/i>
9. The TR itself was based on a very few, late scripts, not one of which contained the entire Greek New Testament and none earlier than the 12th century. In the matter of the book of Revelation, a missing page was translated from the Latin Vulgate BACK to the Greek. Acts 9:6 although found in the Latin Vulgate, and thus the TR is found in no Greek manuscript at all. In light of its obvious shortcomings, a greater number of older and more complete manuscripts were used in the translation of subsequent versions (post-1881)} (The KJV Debate: A Plea for Realism, D.A. Carson)
This is nothing but a bald faced lie by some of the bible scholars of the Laodicean Church age. We have found some even older manuscripts and they line up with the KJV not the new bibles. They new bible “scholars” are changing their bibles continually. I have a few copies of the NIV and they are a couple years apart from each other and they contradict each other. Verses such as Acts 2:38 since the cults use that one a lot. Many others but one will suffice for now.
And some questions to think about …
# Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769.
Take that class that I was talking about above and you will get all of these answered in a much deeper and better way than I could on this blog.
# What Bible would these KJV worshippers recommend since before 1611 there was no Bible.
Sure there was… I don’t know if this is really worth the time to waste. I can see that you have not studied the issue, you just put down some information from a website. You really don’t know of the bibles that came out before the KJV? I am talking about bibles from the correct manuscript evidence. You never heard of the Geneva Bible, Wycliff’s, The Breeches Bible
# Do they realize that the apostle Paul did not use the KJV.
Do you realize that he used the manuscripts that the KJV came from. Paul most certainly did not use the differences based on two corrupt manuscripts in the new bibles since those changes were made after he was gone.
# Why do KJV only advocates reject the apocrypha, since the original 1611 version contained the apocrypha?
Once again, it is easy to see that you have not studied the issue. The apocrypha was inserted in between the testments because of its historical value, the KJV translators did not consider it the word of God. It was taken out later because of fear thinking someone might just do that.
# If God always gives the world his word in one language (as KJV advocates say of English), then the KJV is certainly not that language, for God chose Koine GREEK not ENGLISH to reveal his New Covenant!
I didn’t know that “KJV advocates” said that. Basically the last day universal language is English but he can put his infallible, inerrrant word in whatever language he chooses. Read the “answer.htm” above.
# If God gave us the KJV as an inspired translation, why would God not repeat the process again in modern language in each language?
Ask him why he just started out in one language, Hebrew. Then ask him why he put the New Testament in Greek. Do you really think these questions are good questions? There are very good bibles before the KJV came out since they were from the correct manuscript evidence line. That line was changed under and by two Cambridge students named, Westcott and Hort. Check the links below for a little of their background so you will know who gave us the new greek for our new bibles. Even the Hebrew is not the right one for the Old Testament that they use for the new bibles.
http://www.ekkcom.net/gail27.htm
http://www.ekkcom.net/gail30.htm
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_44.asp
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/waitgail.htm
# If God supervised the translation process so that the KJV is 100% error free, why did God not extend this supervision to the printers?
You will have to ask God that question. he used the men who translanted it and that is for sure. Maybe the ones who printed it didn’t care as much as to whether they put the letters in correctly or not. Spelling was being established back then too. I have a question based on that but it should show you just how bad the new bibles are. Why does the NIV, NKJV, and others change just about everytime they come out? No wonder people don’t memorize the word of God like they did in the past based on what I read and hear. I know a few who are into the new bibles who memorize it but I don’t understand why when some of the verses that they memorized might be different when the newest version comes out. Why does the NKJV have a Triqueta as a symbol on the front of it? It is three 6′s interwoven together. The same symbol is on New Age books, magazines, etc. Check the link below.
http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html
# Why did the KJV translators use marginal note showing alternate translation possibilities? If the English of the KJV is inspired of God, there would be no alternates!
I would think showing alternate ways to translate a word shows their honestly but they still believed the words that they translated were the words of God.
# If the KJV translators were inspired of God in their work, why did they not know it?
Do you honestly think all the ones that God used to write his word in the original languages “knew” they were inspired? Or better said, “Did they know they were writing his inspired word?” Who said they didn’t know it, taking your thoughts to the other side? Inspired or preserved are very close parallels. We will go deeper into that later.
# Why were all the marginal notes and alternate readings removed from modern editions of the KJV, along with the Apocrypha, the opening Dedication to James I, and a lengthy introduction from “The Translators to the Reader.”?
One reason would be that the KJV translators knew that what was the word of God was put on the pages and not in the footnotes. It is funny that you put these points on here and you defend the new bibles, I guess and they make all kinds of changes in the word inself without so much as a footnote or reference to show that it was different in earlier printing. It is like you are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
it is my opinion that is it not wise to label the KJV as the only reliable translation. Also, I feel it is not wise to make fun of and call people names who do not agree with you. Doing so hurts the very gospel that you are trying to share with them. In my opinion, Kent disrespects people in the way he presents his seminar. Again, just my opinion, but I believe this is not a wise or godly approach in sharing God’s precious gospel with those who are lost.
I am not saying this in a harsh way since you cannot hear my voice when I write this but I would say that saying all or most or many of the translations are reliable translations is not a wise statement. They have many mistakes, contradictions, words left out, taken out, etc. I can’t understand why anyone who has really studied the issue would say the modern versions are the word of God. Which ones? They continuely change.
In closing, I just gave some quick answers and a few links. I can give you many links that go much deeper into these questions and I think I can find the website that deals with all of these questions in depth. I think that we should just deal with one question at a time until we come to a logical conclusion showing which side of the issue is correct. I know that you can “nick pick” these small answers and find some flaws but I was just giving an overall answer to get back with you. It takes a lot more work and time to get the answers than to put a post out with some questions and letting it go to the air waves, so to speak.
Ekkman
Jul
4samuel
Said this at 9:58am:
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Hi Ekkman,
I apologise if I have quoted you out of context but I don’t think you have totally understood me; I will try to explain what I mean.
Samuel,
You quoted me ‘out of context’ by what I see. (Please read past blogs.) I was saying to people that we need to be walking in the Spirit if we expect the Lord to hear our prayers.
Yes we do need to be walking with the Lord and be close to him for many reasons, not just for prayer, but I guess my point is, some people are closer to the Lord then others and our relationship with him is largely based on how much time we spend with him in the spirit. The verse you quoted from the Psalms just looked a bit inappropriate for the prayer request blog and perhaps I took it the wrong way, I’m sorry if this is the case.
I thought it was very appropriate. If we are playing with sin then the Lord will not hear our prayers. So if there are those blogging here and they are playing with deliberate sin then they better get right with the Lord. Sin kills!
All I was saying is we should pray without ceasing, regardless of how close we are or think we are to the Lord. How else do you make a stronger connection with him? Prayer, praise and reading his word with a hungry heart seeking the truth! Always pray everyone, regardless how near or far you are from the Lord, he hears and he answers! Pray that he draws you nearer!
How do you pray without ceasing? I agree that he hears prayers of repentance if we are walking in disobedience to his revealed will for our lives. Then he will hear our other prayers. Jonah was heard in the belly of the whale when he repented and got right with God, not until. For example, My wife is living in adultery. Do you think that God hears her prayers? “God, I pray that you will help me and my new boyfriend have a good time while we are out tonight. In Jesus’ name, amen!”
Samuel,
I wanted to deal with the above comment a little. If you read the word, you will find plenty of debating, arguing and the like all through it. True believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are and will be at odds with the world. This place is not our home, we are passing through. We have a better kingdom awaiting us but we are to stand for truth while we are here. As said before, preaching the gospel causes division. The Lord Jesus Christ caused division most places he went. He told us that we are either with him or against him. There is no middle ground. Paul debated, argued with many believers and non believers. Truth sets us free. We must speak, stand for truth at all costs. Are you willing to debate and argue with others if you have truth and you know it can set them free? Sometimes standing for truth isn’t easy. It will cost us something.
Paul put it this way. “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Gal 4:16 Be willing to become an enemy to others by walking in truth, don’t build a plastic relationship by living in lies, deceit, confusion, and the like. I read a sign out here that says, “Preach the gospel always! If necessary use words.” I started thinking, ‘Are they serious?” You can’t preach the gospel without words. I see what they were trying to say but it wasn’t said correctly and that was sad. Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.
Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.
Now you have taken me out of context: P I didn’t mean let’s preach the gospel with smiles, fluffy bunnies and love hearts only. Or do it at a distance without speaking. Or don’t speak the truth as to not offend anyone. This is NOT what I mean.
I was talking to Todd and he told me that I used something with him that isn’t true. I use illustrations to show some truth but not saying the whole illustration applies in every way.
You can lead a horse to water, but if it isn’t thirsty, it won’t drink. The Lord stands at the door and knocks; he doesn’t use a battering ram. He speaks in a soft loving voice and if any man hears it, he will come in.
??????? I have no idea why you said the above statement. Who is using battering rams?
You cannot “prove” God exists empirically, or that creation occurred empirically. ALL of the belief systems in this world, regardless of how feasible they are have to be trusted with a certain amount of FAITH. I was more directing my comments to people who continually entertain non-believers and others who frequently visit this blog (whom I suspect do, simply to argue with, annoy, and bad mouth believers).
I agree that we all live by faith in some way or another. Jesus told us to have faith in God not in our jobs, our spouse, our bank accounts, all of them will pass away. Only God stands sure for his people.
It’s like an I’M RIGHT YOURE WRONG – LOOK AT THE PROOF situation on both sides and this is not how you preach the gospel in my opinion. The gospel should be preached in word, deed and truth. Self righteousness is the number 1 turn off for ANYONE being witnessed to.
I feel like I just came in on a conversation that I know absolutely nothing about. Truth is narrow, one is right and one is wrong if there are absolutes. A man with a woman in marriage is right. A man with a man in marriage is wrong. I guess one example will suffice.
Ekkman said this”
“Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.”
If your life lined up with the law and truth of God exactly you would be God himself, ALL have sinned saved or unsaved, ALL will sin saved or not saved. Sin entered the world through one mans sin and death through sin. We are still bound to this world but we do not have to be conformed, we renew our mind and spirits with the Word of God. It just looks a little bit like you are saying, unless your life conforms exactly to the how the Bible says we should live our life then don’t witness, if that was true, NO ONE should witness as NO ONE is perfect.
I noticed that you pulled this out of context with what I was talkng about. I don’t know why you did that but… I was quoting what I read on a church sign about preaching the gospel and use words if necessary. AND then I said, the above sentence. “Our life better line up with our words but the words are absolutely needed.” You cannot preach the gospel without words. The word of God is words and words are important.
Regarding all have sinned. Why is a person saved? Does God want us to live life here as overcomers or undergoers? Paul said, “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
It just looks as though grace, forgiveness and mercy is being preached on one hand and law, condemnation and justice on the other. Who did Jesus die for again? ALL? Not just the “good”? Did he come to get the righteous into heaven? No! the sinners to repentance!
There were no good to die for. You just said all have sinned. Now when we are born again, he makes us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. That is a positional truth as well as I John 3:9 and many others but we make it an experiential truth as we act out James 4:7 by submitting to God and resisting the devil.
Again, I am NOT insinuating sinning under grace, we should do our best to live up to Jesus Christ’s example and try to be the best we can with compassion, understanding, mercy, hope and love. But not condemn or let ourselves be put down for besetting sins or mistakes we make along the walk of life with the Lord. He still forgives and loves us. We are his Children now and he deals with us in the ways he sees fit.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Rom 8:1-4)
You really don’t think that because you are born again you are now perfect do you? Well if you do you are mistaken.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Co 5:17
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Mat 5:48
Speaking for myself, there are many mistakes I make along the road of life, many things I am learning and understanding and still will be until I meet the Lord in the next life. I am, although now saved through the grace of God, a worthless sinner, STILL counting on our Lord Jesus Christ to save me. Only he can, and only he will.
Is he going to save you or has he already saved you?
Dear Jason, I’m sorry if I came across as nitpicking and yes you are right mans words are fallible, but remember mans words are also in the bible and ALL men are fallible. Only Jesus was not. This is not meant to say that the Bible is fallible. But as Kent Hovind says in one of his seminars, BIBLE = Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. We only see through a glass darkly at present and all will be revealed in the hereafter.
Kent also said that the KJV Bible is infallible and inerrant and so do I. Jesus is called the Word of God and he was perfect, the scriptures are called the word of God and they are perfect. Most everything said about the Word made flesh is said about the word called scripture.
I have to run now as its getting late.
God bless and keep you all! Sorry if I have rambled a bit, annoyed or offended anyone with my posts but this is how I feel.
Sam.
Ekkman
EndTimes
“Please read Psalm 2 and then go to the Apotheosis of Washington. Yes, conspiracy theories are not theories when the Bible prophecies speak of them 3 thousand years before they occur, they are simply fact. I wouldn’t place your trust in your current rulers. See Psalm 118:8-9.”
I have read Psalm 2 and Psalm 118. Didn’t see anything about 911 or Chem Trails. Nor have I seen Bible prophecies that talk about these incidents. Not that I don’t believe in Bible prophecies, of course I do.
Again, you need to have an understanding of Revelation 2:16 as well as Revelation 3:7-13 which speak of the work done by King James. (Hint, look up the political findings of King James over the “gunpowder plot.”) Pray over it and read it from the KJV and compare Scripture with Scripture and then look into the history of the church over the last 2000 from a good source. The Trail of Blood by J.M. Carroll is an excellent resource.
http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm
If you listen to the so called Bible prophecy experts, you will never see the simple truths of Revelation. Instead, the Bible interprets itself. (Isaiah 28:9-13, II Peter 1:20-21, II Corinthians 13:1, I Thessalonians 5:21, I John 2: 27) All wisdom and knowledge comes from the Father above. (James 1:17) All understanding is through the Spirit. (I Corinthians 2: 6-16) So, ask the Lord Himself who will give you the understanding of His Holy Word if you will only ask Him. (James1:5-8). So as in all things of the Bible, it is a matter of faith in believing that His Word is the TRUE, LITERAL WORD OF GOD. If you come before Him doubting that His Word is the truth, He will not teach you ANYTHING WHATSOEVER!!!
I don’t doubt that His Word is true. I said I am not in the KJV ONLY camp. I am in the KJV camp. I have read Kiplinger’s “New Age bible Versions” and I think they all make very good points. But as I said before, I still struggle to read it. It is difficult reading. So I still read other versions. I do pray and ask God to help me understand it. But whether the KJV is the only true Bible or not does not make it easier to read and understand. Say if Martin Luther’s bible is the only true bible? What good does that do me, I don’t speak German.
Dear eecreationist, the Bible states quite clearly that the stars and the sun and the moon and Adam and Eve had the “appearance of age” from the beginning. Why do you buy into the evolutionist paradox that God is somehow lying to us because the stars were made with the appearance of age? This is simply not true. God proved to Adam that He was the Creator by creating all of the animals in the Garden of Eden for Adam to name. Thus, there was no need to know the “age” of the universe for Adam since the evolution/creation debate was preposterous for Adam to contemplate. He observed in Genesis chapter 2 the creative power of God on the sixth day. Adam, came fully equipped and didn’t grow into the garden of Eden. The trees were fully formed.
We likewise see the same creative power in Jesus with the feeding of the 5000 with fully “grown” fish. Likewise, the wine had the appearance of age even though he just created it from water at the wedding in Cana of Galilee. I don’t ever bite into theological doctrines without proving them first, but the so called argument of the “appearance of age” has much scriptural support. I hope that this is helpful.
I never said God is lying to us by giving the appearance of age. I agree that Jesus made water into wine which gave it the appearance of age, even though it happened instantaneously. But He certainly wasn’t lying to anyone. Nor was God lying to us when He made a galaxy of stars visible to us all starting from day one. As Donald DeYoung put it, “it’s not lying to us if the events that happened occured in God’s mind”. He was talking about when people say we see something like a star explosion that never really existed at the source since the source is more than 6000 light years away. What I was talking about was when Hovind talks about how we can’t measure the distance accurately. My point is that doesn’t make any difference. I believe the stars HAVE to be millions and billions of light years away or else we’d all cook. You just can’t fit that many stars inside of a sphere of 6000 light years in radius. In order to have the number of stars that God wanted to have in our galaxy, they just have to be that far away. I do believe Usher’s prediction of the age of the universe to be accurate. I am a young earth creationist. There are too many other evidences (in addition to the bible) that point to a “young” earth.
This forum, as much as any, has a tendency to develop into an endless debate and pointless nitpicking. Which probably is in order for most visitors. I wouldn’t know. Those of us with short attention span however, who would rather not spend an entire afternoon perusing semantic battles of this elaborate opinion versus that, and interpretations of scripture…err…it’s something we can do without. It’s a drag, really.
As for Kent Hovind being responsible for Jo’s possible jailtime or not: who cares. I know I was saved thanks to his work for the Lord, and there are numerous out there with the same gratitude as I feel. Without all the Creation ministries out there this world would be a worse cesspool than it is. Hovind’s contribution may be more controversial than the rest, due to his candid review of politics, conspiracies and religious denominations, but what if he’s right? Should we close our eyes to the truth just because it’s ugly? I think Jo Hovind has been aware all along that this situation might come eventually. She is not a child, bear in mind. Kent is being persecuted for having Christ as his Head, just as Jo is being persecuted for having a Christian husband as her Head. Isn’t this just another fulfilment of biblical prophesy: Christians are being murdered, jailed, belittled and scoffed at all over the world – why should one of the world’s most travelled creationists be an exception?
Oh, I digress. Sorry.
A scripture moment, 1 Corinthians 3 (adding to SAMUEL’s posts above):
“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your’s; Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your’s; And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.”
Described here, as I interpret it, is the promise that EVERYONE who confesses Jesus Christ to be the Son of God is saved. No matter one’s potential future sins. Jesus is the foundation of every Christian. If you build a futile house on that foundation it will be destroyed, but you will be cleansed and saved. “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” The key to salvation is the foundation, which is Jesus Christ.
How do we discern a true believer in Christ from a hypocrite? A true believer does the will of God and aims for perfection. Not that anyone will ever reach perfection but it’s the goal isn’t it? To become like Christ, the perfect man. What is the will of God? That we follow His commandments. The laws given to Moses are not nullified, but instead of having them imposed on us so that we inevitably rebel against them or harden our hearts because of blind obedience, they are put in our hearts in the shape of a conscience through the spirit of truth – The Holy Spirit. I have met people who are not ashamed when they lie – they think nothing of it. It’s astounding to me. I can only speak for myself, but since I have become a Christian it’s increasingly harder to lie, steal, hate, fornicate, envy and so on. It’s as if my conscience is surfacing and it disciplines me. I still sin once in a while, but I feel miserable doing it. So I try my best to exclude things that make me feel miserable, i.e. actions that break the commandments. I figure, for as long as I’m in the flesh, marriage is the greatest antidote for fornication, so that’s my next step towards perfection. “Flee fornication”.
These were my humble thoughts.
A wholehearted thank you to Kent Hovind and his ministry, none mentioned none forgotten.
/Mattias
Hi Ekkman,
I said: “All I was saying is we should pray without ceasing, regardless of how close we are or think we are to the Lord. How else do you make a stronger connection with him? Prayer, praise and reading his word with a hungry heart seeking the truth! Always pray everyone, regardless how near or far you are from the Lord, he hears and he answers! Pray that he draws you nearer!”
Ekkman said: “How do you pray without ceasing? I agree that he hears prayers of repentance if we are walking in disobedience to his revealed will for our lives. Then he will hear our other prayers. Jonah was heard in the belly of the whale when he repented and got right with God, not until. For example, My wife is living in adultery. Do you think that God hears her prayers? “God, I pray that you will help me and my new boyfriend have a good time while we are out tonight. In Jesus’ name, amen!””
I think you know this is not how I meant it, you are being a little bit obnoxious.
It sounds like you are quite bitter against your wife. Yes, your wife may be living in adultery and I can only imagine how much this hurts you. But this does not mean she is damned to hell for eternity. Perhaps the Lord is using it as a test and trial for you just for one. I really cannot comment as I do not know your full situation, but be careful how you judge her. By the way, has your wife accepted Jesus Christ as her saviour?
Also, in regard to some of your comments: I am more than willing to stand up for Jesus in this wicked and sinful generation. I am more that happy to lay down my life, my reputation, my all for the Lord. No, this world is not our home, we are just passing through, but that does not make us any more special or better then anyone else. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, for the wages of sin is indeed death, but Gods gift is totally free, eternal life through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for us at Calvary.
I said: “You can lead a horse to water, but if it isn’t thirsty, it won’t drink. The Lord stands at the door and knocks; he doesn’t use a battering ram. He speaks in a soft loving voice and if any man hears it, he will come in.”
Ekkman said: “ ??????? I have no idea why you said the above statement. Who is using battering rams?”
This was just an example of the love & meekness of the Lord and of his truth, it is there for all who want it, for the taking, it is in no way forced upon anyone. Sorry if I confused you.
Ekkman said: “I feel like I just came in on a conversation that I know absolutely nothing about. Truth is narrow, one is right and one is wrong if there are absolutes. A man with a woman in marriage is right. A man with a man in marriage is wrong. I guess one example will suffice.”
I totally agree; some issues are more black and white then others. Homosexuality is clearly judged in the Bible, as is self righteousness (God probably sees this as a worse sin) The law stands to convict man and to show us that not ONE is righteous and we all deserve death and are in need of a saviour. God loves us so much that he has made provision to save us through his amazing grace.
But remember, even with all the scriptures, with the gift of the Holy Spirit, of tongues and the gift prophesy, we STILL see through a glass darkly, so please do not make out you know everything about the truth because we will never know all there is to know until the next life, once face to face with Jesus, the way the truth and the life. And yes, I believe the Bible IS the inerrant word of God, but as Kent also said, God promised to preserve his word, NOT our language and interpretations.
Ekkman said: “Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.”
One you have accepted Jesus Christ in to your heart he does the hard work for you; it is HE who shines through you and creates the good Christian example needed to win people to him. All we have to do is crucify the flesh, take up our cross and follow him. “For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” “Cast your burdens upon the Lord and he will sustain you” You didn’t think it was you being good enough for him did you? It is ALL Jesus, thank the Lord, praise his glorious name!
Ekkman said: “There were no good to die for. You just said all have sinned. Now when we are born again, he makes us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. That is a positional truth as well as I John 3:9 and many others but we make it an experiential truth as we act out James 4:7 by submitting to God and resisting the devil.”
Just a question, do you think that once you have accepted Jesus, are born again and saved you no longer commit any sins, make any mistakes or do anything wrong? One step further to this, do you believe you can lose your salvation?
Ekkman said “Is he going to save you or has he already saved you?”
Both! He has already saved me and he is going to save me! (He already saved me spiritually when he made the sacrifice for me by dying for us all on the cross and by my humble acceptance of Gods free gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ. Also, he is going to save me from this world – I refer to the second coming.)
Ephesians 2:7-9
In the ages to come he might shew (will show) the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
With love and kindness,
God bless you all,
Sam.
Hi Mattias,
mattias said: “How do we discern a true believer in Christ from a hypocrite? A true believer does the will of God and aims for perfection. Not that anyone will ever reach perfection but it’s the goal isn’t it? To become like Christ, the perfect man. What is the will of God? That we follow His commandments. The laws given to Moses are not nullified, but instead of having them imposed on us so that we inevitably rebel against them or harden our hearts because of blind obedience, they are put in our hearts in the shape of a conscience through the spirit of truth – The Holy Spirit. I have met people who are not ashamed when they lie – they think nothing of it. It’s astounding to me. I can only speak for myself, but since I have become a Christian it’s increasingly harder to lie, steal, hate, fornicate, envy and so on. It’s as if my conscience is surfacing and it disciplines me. I still sin once in a while, but I feel miserable doing it. So I try my best to exclude things that make me feel miserable, i.e. actions that break the commandments. I figure, for as long as I’m in the flesh, marriage is the greatest antidote for fornication, so that’s my next step towards perfection. “Flee fornication”.”
Thank you for those wonderful words. I must say I agree, this is pretty much what I understand and believe in a nutshell.
God bless you!
Sam.
Eecreationist
Said this at 12:45pm:
I don’t doubt that His Word is true. I said I am not in the KJV ONLY camp. I am in the KJV camp. I have read Kiplinger’s “New Age bible Versions” and I think they all make very good points. But as I said before, I still struggle to read it. It is difficult reading. So I still read other versions. I do pray and ask God to help me understand it. But whether the KJV is the only true Bible or not does not make it easier to read and understand. Say if Martin Luther’s bible is the only true bible? What good does that do me, I don’t speak German.
Dear eecreationist,
The KJV is actually the easiest reading English Bible at the 5th grade level. Any “archaic” words are easily looked up in different dictionaries with the 1828 Webster’s as one of the best. My wife comes from the Philippines and she actually is able to speak the words from the KJV better than me after a very little time. Understanding anything in the Bible is not a matter of which version used, but instead it is a matter of method, comparing Scripture to Scripture and most importantly prayer and supplication as this is a spiritual issue giving wisdom from God above. So, searching through different and what I consider inferior texts is not the answer to spiritual understanding. It is instead an endeavor that we must approach the Lord to give us that wisdom and understanding. Nevertheless, the KJV is the best English version extant today and it is written at a lower grade level than any of the other versions.
So, for accuracy and purity, the KJV is the best. For simplicity, it is actually the best with the note that you may need to look up a few words here and there. I don’t think that has hurt anyone in the past has it? So, all things are done in “spirit” and truth. Keep at it with the KJV and don’t give up on it.
As for conspiracy theories, you are correct in not finding specific conspiracies such as you listed. But definitely the general conspiracy against the Lord and His anointed is born out in the Apotheosis of Washington with his feet atop the rainbow which is the glory of God. Quite plain really. So, keep your eyes on the Lord and know that the kings and rulers of this earth are not faithful to Christianity by the testimony of the Bible. They are not to be trusted. You will not have to look too far to see discrepancies in the official stories and the true facts of many different issues. Psalm 2 explains this phenomenon.
May God Bless,
EndTimes
Jul
9samuel
Said this at 4:54am:
———————————————————————– ———
Hi Ekkman,
I said: “All I was saying is we should pray without ceasing, regardless of how close we are or think we are to the Lord. How else do you make a stronger connection with him? Prayer, praise and reading his word with a hungry heart seeking the truth! Always pray everyone, regardless how near or far you are from the Lord, he hears and he answers! Pray that he draws you nearer!”
When a Christian is far from the Lord, the normal thing that he wouldn’t do is pray. He has no desire for fellowship with the Lord and wouldn’t get it anyway if he is playing with sin. Deliberate sin breaks fellowship with God and if it continues then we are in deep trouble. How does a Christian always pray? When you are playing with sin and talking to God, you are not praying. You might think you are but you are not really praying.
Ekkman said: “How do you pray without ceasing? I agree that he hears prayers of repentance if we are walking in disobedience to his revealed will for our lives. Then he will hear our other prayers. Jonah was heard in the belly of the whale when he repented and got right with God, not until. For example, My wife is living in adultery. Do you think that God hears her prayers? “God, I pray that you will help me and my new boyfriend have a good time while we are out tonight. In Jesus’ name, amen!””
I think you know this is not how I meant it, you are being a little bit obnoxious.
I wasn’t being obnoxious. I was just being honest, I don’t know you so I was asking. You wouldn’t believe all the “Christians” that feel this is all right to do.
It sounds like you are quite bitter against your wife. Yes, your wife may be living in adultery and I can only imagine how much this hurts you. But this does not mean she is damned to hell for eternity. Perhaps the Lord is using it as a test and trial for you just for one. I really cannot comment as I do not know your full situation, but be careful how you judge her. By the way, has your wife accepted Jesus Christ as her saviour?
I can honestly say I have no bitterness at all for her. I still love her very much, I pity her and pray for her a lot. I cry for her and my kids everyday at the weirdest times. I could be driving and I start crying for them and also pray for them or I see some kids and I start crying and praying for mine. I drive past a park that I took them to a lot of times and I would start crying and praying again. This goes on in many other illustrations. Yea, I believe that she really accepted him a few years ago but she turned her back on him now. She will not go to heaven unless she repents and turns back to the Lord. I am super careful how I judge her. I want my judgments to be righteous judgments based on God’s word. The Lord makes in plain no adulterer, fornicator will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I would take her back in a minute if she truly repents just as the Lord would do.
I would also say to you be very careful how you judge her. Many seem to think if they judge “positively” about the person that they are all right in their judgments. That isn’t righteous judgment necessarily. We are to judge by the word of God and by the Spirit of God. Jesus was hard core with truth especially with the religious leaders. Jesus said in Rev. 3: that he is going to spew the lukewarm Christians out of his mouth. Some tell me that isn’t hell. I just tell them I don’t want to be spewed to the other side of heaven by the Lord Jesus Christ, I want to hear him say well done.
Also, in regard to some of your comments: I am more than willing to stand up for Jesus in this wicked and sinful generation. I am more that happy to lay down my life, my reputation, my all for the Lord. No, this world is not our home, we are just passing through, but that does not make us any more special or better then anyone else. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, for the wages of sin is indeed death, but Gods gift is totally free, eternal life through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for us at Calvary.
I believe we spit in the Lord’s face, so to speak, when we talk about how wicked and sinful we are after he made us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I think that is one of the major reasons that so many Christians are living in defeat and ruin. They live what they believe that they are. Jesus made us saints of God in the here and now. We don’t wait till we get to heaven to become saints like the Roman Catholics teach. Many of the Epistles start off “to the saints at…” God tells us in I John 3:9 that those who are born of God cannot sin, but we still have the old sin nature by way of the flesh that we are called to crucify daily to walk overcoming, victorious lives.>/b>
I said: “You can lead a horse to water, but if it isn’t thirsty, it won’t drink. The Lord stands at the door and knocks; he doesn’t use a battering ram. He speaks in a soft loving voice and if any man hears it, he will come in.”
Ekkman said: “ ??????? I have no idea why you said the above statement. Who is using battering rams?”
This was just an example of the love & meekness of the Lord and of his truth, it is there for all who want it, for the taking, it is in no way forced upon anyone. Sorry if I confused you.
It is true that the Lord of glory is love and meek but he came the first time to save the world not to condemn since it was already condemned. But those who reject his offer of salvation when he comes again, it will be as judge and a battering ram would be easier on you. Like the bumper sticker says, “Jesus is coming back soon and boy is he mad.
Ekkman said: “I feel like I just came in on a conversation that I know absolutely nothing about. Truth is narrow, one is right and one is wrong if there are absolutes. A man with a woman in marriage is right. A man with a man in marriage is wrong. I guess one example will suffice.”
I totally agree; some issues are more black and white then others. Homosexuality is clearly judged in the Bible, as is self righteousness (God probably sees this as a worse sin) The law stands to convict man and to show us that not ONE is righteous and we all deserve death and are in need of a saviour. God loves us so much that he has made provision to save us through his amazing grace.
But remember, even with all the scriptures, with the gift of the Holy Spirit, of tongues and the gift prophesy, we STILL see through a glass darkly, so please do not make out you know everything about the truth because we will never know all there is to know until the next life, once face to face with Jesus, the way the truth and the life. And yes, I believe the Bible IS the inerrant word of God, but as Kent also said, God promised to preserve his word, NOT our language and interpretations.
Since we have his pure and perfect word in the here and now, then we need to study it and he will lead and guide us to all truth as he promised. Sure we see through a glass darkly but that shouldn’t stop us from going deeper and deeper with the Lord right now.
Ekkman said: “Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.”
One you have accepted Jesus Christ in to your heart he does the hard work for you; it is HE who shines through you and creates the good Christian example needed to win people to him. All we have to do is crucify the flesh, take up our cross and follow him. “For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” “Cast your burdens upon the Lord and he will sustain you” You didn’t think it was you being good enough for him did you? It is ALL Jesus, thank the Lord, praise his glorious name!
We are saved to be conformed to his image, Jesus isn’t saved to be conformed to Jesus’ image but we are.
What I was saying is: People on this blog cannot see you shining with his glory. They need to hear the truth by the word of God and or principles from the word.
Ekkman said: “There were no good to die for. You just said all have sinned. Now when we are born again, he makes us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. That is a positional truth as well as I John 3:9 and many others but we make it an experiential truth as we act out James 4:7 by submitting to God and resisting the devil.”
Just a question, do you think that once you have accepted Jesus, are born again and saved you no longer commit any sins, make any mistakes or do anything wrong? One step further to this, do you believe you can lose your salvation?
Explain II Corinth 5:17-20; I John 3:3-9; I John 5:18 to name a few for now. Read the link below about my views on ‘once saved, always saved’.
http://www.ekkcom.net/saved.htm
Ekkman said “Is he going to save you or has he already saved you?”
Both! He has already saved me and he is going to save me! (He already saved me spiritually when he made the sacrifice for me by dying for us all on the cross and by my humble acceptance of Gods free gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ. Also, he is going to save me from this world – I refer to the second coming.)
Ephesians 2:7-9
In the ages to come he might shew (will show) the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Amen!
With love and kindness,
God bless you all,
Sam.
Ekkman
I have read the NIV and the NLT cover to cover. I have tried reading the KJV several times and still struggle with it and I am 100% english speaking American. Most people I talk to who read the bible say the same thing. I have prayed to God that I can understand it because I do believe it is the best version. But understanding what I am reading is more important than reading the best version and not understanding it. I am still working on understanding it better. Now I am reading Ray Comfort’s Easy Reading King James. Even that I find to be difficult to understand sometimes. It’s not like I am undereducated or anything, I am a professional electrical engineer (PE) so that is why I find it so baffling that people say that the KJV is 5th (or around that age) grade level reading. Side from having to look up some words (which I am fine with) the words themselves are sometimes aranged in a different order than modern english which can be confusing.
So from a personal experience I have found some of the other versions easier to understand. I don’t care about statistics or what studies have shown. Maybe there is something that I am missing. I have heard of books that you can get that help you to read the KJV and understand it better. I do plan on reading those, but if you need to read a book to understand it, can it really be true that it is the easiest bible to read? I don’t see any books that help you read the NIV, or the NLT…
I do understand that getting the true meaning is “easier” from the KJV but that is because I think it is a superior bible that translates from the correct manuscripts, not because it is easier english to read. Kind of like saying I get more out of what God is saying in the KJV than I do from Left Behind.
First to the Editor/mediator sorry about the length of this:
To eecreationist: I was raised with the NIV my biggest problem with it is John 3:16 the Niv ghanges “only begotten” to “his one and only son” leaving the rest of us in the cold. Some more are as follows:
Try Answering These From Your NIV
By Rex L. Cobb
INSTRUCTIONS:
Using the New International Version Bible, answer the following questions to this NIV quiz.
Do not rely on your memory. As the Bible is the final authority, you must take the answer from the Bible verse (not from footnotes but from the text).
Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. “Love your enemies,__________ them that curse you, ______________ to them that hate you, and pray for them that __________ and persecute you.”
According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this type of demon?
According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?
According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate’s first name?
In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.
In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out demons and to: ____________
According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?
According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter, etc.). What is his title or last name?
In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?
In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this verse, what did He come to do?
In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?
According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription written?
In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?
John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ. According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?
What happened each year as told in John 5:4?
In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?
In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?
What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?
Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.
Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the chief captain’s name? What did the chief captain command?
Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.
First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the flesh?
In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ? And, what do we Christians do?
Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7?
Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, “I am the A______________ and O___________, the _________ and the _______:”
If you read the last chapter of Revelations it might also clear this up for you!
With love Three Crosses
P.S. the Niv is translated from the roman catholic bible aka “the majority of texts”
[EDITOR'S NOTE: The length is fine. I do not disagree, by the way. I have not "chimed in" on this debate up until now, but I am strongly KJV oriented. While the NIV, RSV, NASB, et al, have "simplified words", they have also CHANGED MEANINGS! Evil persons are altering the Bible's words. The Church is being weakened from within. The KJV is the closest to Textus Receptus, the thousands of manuscripts that were passed down by believers over the millennia. Also see: http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html P.A. ]
Jul
12
btodd
Said this at 5:47pm:
QUOTE BY THE EDITOR: What scientists believe and what the science shows are sometimes at odds. (Remember Galileo, an example of scientists being wrong for over 1,000 years!) END QUOTE
END QUOTE: And it most certainly is NOT based on science. Otherwise they’d be the first to want textbooks with evolutionary pseudo-science corrected. They don’t. (See Dr. Hovind’s Seminar #4, “Lies in the Textbooks” http://shopping.drdino.com/view_item.php?id=443 ) Most evolutionists put their religion ahead of science. P.A. ] END QUOTE
You would have us believe that science is religion, and religion is science. Good luck with your re-defining of words.
btodd
[EDITOR’S NOTE: In showing evolution to be religious, I am standing against “science, falsely so-called” but not at all against real science. I love science. And like Galileo, I stand against the consensus of unscientific scientists who are wallowing in their vain traditions and peer-pressure/peer-review hollow beliefs that they just must be right. Pasteur - mocked by scientists. Einstein - also insulted for challenging quantum mechanics with his relativity notions. The consensus of scientists is often wrong. It is up to us scientifically thinking persons to correct them once again regarding the religion of evolution - a non-testable-repeatable belief system that defies science and that hides from our Maker. P.A.
1 Timothy 6:20 “O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called.” ]
Since Galileo keeps coming up, I thought everyone would be interested in reading these two pages of many that are out there on the same subject. Please read them, don’t just skim them, read them and then let you opinion be known. They are written by scientists even with those letters, “PhD” behind the name.
http://www.refcm.org/RICDiscussions/Science-Scripture/geocentricity.htm
Scroll down the page a little bit and click on the link says, “Another Look at Galileo” -by Dr. John Byl
http://www.geocentricity.com/
Click on the Geocentricity Link on the left side of the page.
Ekkman
These are all good points. I looked through a lot of them. As I said before, I have studied the KJV topic a lot and do find that the KJV is the superior Bible. My point is not its accuracy or authority, rather its difficulty to read. I know of scripture that is as accurate or more accurate than the KJV. It is the original scripts written in Greek and Hebrew. So if you had a choice, which would you rather be stuck on a deserted island with, those or an NIV? I was actually able to answer a lot of those questions with my wife’s NIV, which has footnotes that include the missing information.
I am praying and trying to read it and understand it. As Hovind often said, “I’d rather you read the NIV than Playboy” so I don’t necassarily think it is bad to read a Bible that is not King James as long as you agree on the essentials (Deity of Christ, Trinity, Salvation, etc.). But I do think that the serious Bible student should use the King James (which I do on some key verses). Does anyone recommend some books or literature that will help to understand the KJV? I know I have seen them. Gail Riplinger has some books on the topic…not sure if any of them help to read it. In “New Age Versions” Appendix C she has a chapter called “how to understand the King James Bible”. It was not of specific help, mostly it was Bible verses that show that you need to humble yourself to God, pray and meditate. All good, but I am looking for something (preferably in book form) that has a list of the words not commonly used with their definitions and some other material that helps you to read and understand it.
So as I said before, I do believe the KJV is the ultimate authority for the english speaking person. But I think the fact that Riplinger has a chapter devoted to “how to understand the KJV” drives home my point.
To eecreationist: I don’t have a good answer for your question, but if you want to learn alot about Bible translations Jack Chick has http://www.chick.com it might have what you are looking for. It is a very thorough rescource and it has the “Trail of Blood” available a good read for a brother in Christ.
God bless! love the three crosses
To eecreationist: Maybe I do have an answer have you considered a Schofield reference Bible. I disagree with alot of the footnotes and such but it gives definitions and references on the page. Thanks again!
God bless!
P.S. eat the meat spit out the bones
I am sorry to hear of Mrs Hovind’s sentencing. The last I’d heard about her, the charges had been dropped (or so I thought I’d read) and I was most happy for her. I can’t imagine that she has to do time in a federal prison. I am truly saddened to hear this. Jo, you are in my thoughts and prayers … may our Lord Jesus be with you and may your upcoming *term* go by quickly. God Bless to all the Hovinds.
Luv n hugzzz, your sister in Christ!
Samarra
Hovind family, we are praying for you! We support Dr. Hovind in his decision to stand against the voluntary income tax and the corrupt system. Here is a case that may show precedence in the event that there will be an appeal for the family.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56855
May the Lord use this to bring the Hovind family together and not let it be a wedge that brings separation and disunity.