Sentencing Prayer Request
Since the conclusion of the November 2006 trial against her and her husband, Dr. Kent Hovind, Mrs. Hovind has been awaiting sentencing. Although under travel restrictions and a time of anxious waiting, she is grateful that the wait has been from her home. Her sentencing date was postponed several times, but is now scheduled for Friday morning, June 29 at 9:00 a.m.
Mrs. Hovind is a very private person, and does not desire to be in the spotlight. Her role has always been as one of the support team whether, cleaning, cooking, or typing. Not wanting to be in the forefront, and yet knowing that the prayers of a righteous man availeth much, she and CSE humbly ask for your prayers concerning her sentencing.
To those who have been praying, the CSE Team express our deepest appreciation.
123 Responses to “Sentencing Prayer Request”
You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Lakedaimonios
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 9:32am:I find it unfortunate that a seemingly kind woman like Mrs. Hovind has been dragged down so far by a criminal husband.
GaryMurray
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 10:07am:Our prayers will certainly be with Mrs Hovind and the Hovind family Friday AM. God bless and keep the faith, always in Christ that all things work together for good to them that love God.
May God Bless you,
Gary Murray
m_neugwou
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 10:18am:My family and I continue to pray for Dr Hoving’s freedom and May the God All mighty, The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the same God who took his people Israel out of Egypt, CREATOR of all things acquit Mrs Hovind on June 29th, 2007. May all the charges against this family be droped completly. May this family be reunified and may they continue to serve the Lord as they always did for many years.
God is faithfully and will never let us down. To Him all the glory and power and those who put their trust in Him will never be desappointed.
In Jesus Name we pray, AMEN
Martin Luther, Nataliya and family.
Edmonton Alberta, Canada
m_neugwou
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 10:36am:God Almighty, God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Your Love is so deep and high, so long and large. You know all the difficulties this family is going through. You know how committed Dr Howind and his wife have been to your service. You blessed them and gave them the opportunity to come to know as their personal savior and the courage to share their faith with others. You know all the pain and hard time Brother Kent is going through actually in prison with a so harsh sentence. We bow our knees in front of your throne of grace with this simple, sincere and thanks giving prayer to thank you for every single visible and invisible blessings you into our lives and to ask you to acquit Mrs Howind on June 29, 2007. We also ask you ABBA FATHER to free Brother Kent from Prison. You are a God of miracle and we know that if you created all things just in 6 days, NOTHING is impossible for you Lord.
We know that those who put their trust in you will never been disappointed and that Your LOVE endure FOREVER.
In Jesus name we pray, AMEN.
Martin Luther, Nataliya and family
Edmonton Alberta Canada
Matthew
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 10:39am:I feel that Jo Hovind deserves sympathy for what has happened. It is not her fault. I will suggest that she will not receive jail time, but Kent should remain in jail unless they can convince judge that Kent is remorseful.
darling
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 10:48am:It is my earnest hope that any sentence will be non-custodial.
The Welders Wife
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 12:14pm:In tears & supplication been praying for you constantly beloved Sister.
We’ve all been praying for you.
The women of Alberton Community Church, Alberton, Montana.
mianic
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 12:15pm:Would that your husband could embrace you tightly in those loving arms which have been so sadly torn from you. But “Fear not…for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.”
campsuz
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 12:22pm:We love you.
We are praying with you…
Rich Turner
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 1:52pm:Dr. Hovind, Mrs. Hovind, and CSE are continually in our prayers.
Our Family Group, My men’s Bible study group, our Praise Team, and our church are praying for the Hovind’s. I know that God is in control, but I also know He uses His children to accomplish His will on this planet.
Sandy and I will continue to pray, and continue to labor to draw attention to the obvious miscarriage of justice that has occurred in this case.
In the end we believe God will work all this out, and bring glory to Himself.
Mrs. Hovind we will continue to lift you up before our loving Father!
May God hold your hand tightly during this trying time and may you sense His leadership, guidance, and protection in a unique and powerful way!
Rich
dhelpmeet
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 3:04pm:You will continue to be in my prayers through all of this. Thank you for keeping us posted.
Nehemiah Jeon
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 3:15pm:Ding, that’s somebody’s birthday.
I’ll pray like a mad man.
Immanuel God is in us!
DrJoe
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 3:29pm:We are deeply grateful for the love and support Jo Hovind has given to her husband and the CSE ministry. Our hearts go out to her, especially at this time. We will certainly be praying earnestly for her and all involved. Dr. Joe
mtlionsroar
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 3:57pm:Dear Mrs. Hovind,
As I have been praying for your husband, I also have been praying for you. Please know I will continue to bring you before the Throne of Grace! I will be on my knees Friday morning for you. May the Lord grant you the peace that only He can give.
Much love to you, children, staff, & Kent!
Dee
sonofjapheth
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 4:15pm:Dear Sister Jo. We are praying for you, and for brother Kent. I was reading the 37th Psalm a couple of days ago and thought of you and Kent. It seemed to fit your description. Please know that you are loved. I think of you and pray for you daily. May God give you peace during this very trying time.
Love, from a brother in Christ,
sonofjapheth
robtzfamily
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 4:19pm:We’re still praying..
(1 Peter 5:7)
Michael Deas
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 4:29pm:Yes, Dear Sister, you are in our prayers.
ewelamb
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 4:43pm:Thanks for the update. I will pray that she will have peace and for mercy in the sentencing process.
FuManchu
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 4:58pm:It has always been my wish that Mrs Hovind not suffer for being led astray by her husband. I continue to hope that the courts will decide that justice has been done and not inflict unnecessary pain on Jo and her family. Kent appears to be happy enough having personal conversations with God; I’m not convinced that Mrs Hovind would take so readily to the prison experience, and I don’t believe she should have to.
(Of course, it was also my wish that the judge sentence Kent by handing him a photograph and saying “This is not your jail…it’s just a picture of it”, so my wishes seem relatively immaterial in this matter.)
Maturekid
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 5:00pm:No matter the stances people have on Mr. Hovind, Mrs. Hovind definitely does not deserve any time behind bars at all. It would truly be a travesty if she were to be sent to jail. A private kind hearted lady is the last person we should ever send to lock up. Our prayers are with her.
CHIPLADY
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 9:42pm:By His great adoration and tender mercy, the God of the Universe presents His unfailing peace and great strength to His children. He established His peace in us through the beautiful resurrection of His only Son, Christ Jesus. He wipes away our transgressions allowing us to be used to further the kingdom of God. Therefore, we have been enabled to enter into His rest and become His righteous children.
May you Kent and Jo find strength and courage in Gods Word . I am praying for Gods will in Jos sentencing and I am reminded that nothing can separate us from the love God which is in Jesus Christ (ROMANS 8:35)
CHIPLADY
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 9:47pm:KENT ,JO AND FAMILY
Trust in the Lord with all of your heart. Lean not on your own understanding. In all of your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your path straight (Proverbs 3:5-6). Trust God. He is infinitely able to provide your needs.
Entrust your path to His mighty hands. He shall always protect you from the snares of the enemy. By His strength you are made much more than conquerors! Fear not, for He is infinitely better than your fears!
ibelieve2
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 10:41pm:JO we are praying for you!!!!!! We have not forgotten you!!!! You, & Kent, & your children, & your grandchildren are always in our hearts & prayers. I know this is taking quite a toll on all of you. It breaks my heart to think what all you have gone through. We are with you in Spirit!!!!!
In Christ’s love,
ibleieve2
Ekkman
Said this on June 27th, 2007 at 11:36pm:Kent and Jo,
You will be in my prayers. There are keys in prayer that God wants us to know though and all of us need to be applying those keys when we pray or before we pray.
The word of God says,
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (Php 4:6,7)
This shows us that we are not to be moving in worry or doubt but to be in a spirit of praise and thanksgiving, knowing that the Lord God is in control even though in many things in these last days it doesn’t look like it but he is.
Pray without ceasing.
In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (1Th 5:17,18)
Here we see that we are to pray with thanksgiving “in everything” not ‘for’ everything. I don’t thank the Lord that my wife is divorcing me, that I haven’t seen my kids in also a year. I cry for them all the time but I am thankful that God is God and he is in charge as we give things to him in faith, he works things out for the good as we look to him and love him and serve him. Also we see that we are to pray without ceasing… Our life is to be a prayer to God not just our words.
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Psa 66:18)
This shows us that we cannot play with deliberate sin and think the Lord will listen to our prayers. He is a holy and pure God and will not play with sin.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. (John 15:7)
Jesus said that we are to abide in him and his words in us and then we shall ask what we will and it shall be done. This scripture speaks to me in the sense of Psa. 37:3-5
Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
This also speaks to me in the sense that the O.T. “delighting and committing our way” to the Lord God Almighty is the N.T. way of saying “abiding in Jesus”.
Making it simple, as we walk in the Spirit, we are seeing his word fulfilled in our lives.
I have told a few believers recently who have turned their backs on the Lord because they have not seen his word coming true in their lives like they did in the near past. God is real, I have experienced his life, his love, his faithfulness for years, he has proven himself to me time and time again in totally unbelievable ways. He is more real than my physical family even though I love them bunches. Many in the world know the atom is real yet they have never seen it, or Mars or as far as it goes the other side of the world. God put it within us to know he is there and when we come to know him personally then we know by experience he is there not just within us but around us and beside us and over us and under us. He is everywhere, he is God.
While many believers are going through the biggest trials in their lives because the Lord is allowing his “church”, his “body” to be tried, their prayers are “put on hold” in regards to things happening in their own lives but God will come through as he promises in his time for us. When the trial is over, we will experience God’s blessings, his power like Job did when his trial was over.
Be strong Jo, you have the God of the “uni-verse” on your side. He spoke in the beginning and he was done, he spoke when he walked this planet and it was done.
Just let him speak to your heart and keep you calm in the midst of this storm and he will.
Ekkman
Paulus
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 1:20am:May God give Jo Hovind the strength to stand the trial and convince the jury of her innocence. She is certainly the biggest victim of this whole sad affair.
Samphire
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 3:32am:May I add my hopes, too, that the judge will find wisdom, kind understanding and mercy in the sentencing. I do not believe any us who have contributed to this blog on a regular basis, even we few unrepentant contrarians, wish that Mrs Hovind should suffer any form of custodial sentence.
So, chin up, Jo. We are all rooting for you.
wacky_diva
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 6:36am:I would just like to offer my support to Kent and Jo Hovind and tell them that they are in our prayers, we have just finished watching “Dinosaurs and the Bible” tonight with our home study group and spent time in prayer for both Kent and particularly Jo as her trial is coming up tomorrow.
With all our love and prayers
Suzi, John, Shirley, Sarah, Paul, Perry & Rachel.
God Bless
Ooblog » Blog Archive » Jo Hovind Update
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 6:58am:[...] Kent Hovind’s site reports that his wife Jo will be sentenced tomorrow, Jun. 29, at 9:00 a.m. I guess we’ll see what happens. [...]
Three Crosses
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 8:31am:The Hovind family will stay in our prayers. Thank you for keeping us informed if there is anything we can do please let us know.
God bless! The Crosses.
childrenrtreasures
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 8:34am:“My Father Planned It All” :
What tho’ the way be lonely
And dark the shadows fall
I know where’er He leadeth
My Father planned it all
I sing through the shade and the sunshine
I trust Him whatever befall
I sing for I cannot be silent
My Father planned it all
There may be sunshine tomorrow
Shadows may break and flee
‘Twill be the way he chooses
The Father’s plan for me
“All Will Be Well” :
Through the love of God our Savior, All will be well;
Free and changeless is His favor- All, all is well.
Precious is the blood that healed us,
Perfect is the grace that sealed us,
Strong the hand stretched out to shield us-All must be well.
Though we pass through tribulation, All will be well;
Ours is such a full salvation- All, all is well.
Happy when in God confiding, Fruitful if in Christ abiding,
Holy through the Spirit guiding- All must be well.
We expect a bright tomorrow-All will be well;
Faith can sing through days of sorrow, All, all is well.
On our Father’s love relying, Jesus ev’ry need supplying,
Or in living or in dying-All must be well.
Crying out in prayer for you sister Jo.
John 16:33- These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Sade Tennyson
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 8:50am:Dear Sister Jo,
Be encouraged with this word of our Lord Ps 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
I’m praying for you & I pray the comfort of the Holy Spirit will continually be yours.
The Lord who is your rock will uphold you & strengthen you in Jesus name.
The Lord who is your fortress will stand by you in Jesus name.
The Lord who is your deliverer will deliver you from the snare of the devil & from the sentencing tomorrow in Jesus name.
The Lord who is your God will be God in your situation and your husband’s situation in Jesus name.
The Lord who is your strength shall strengthen you & your husband in this distressing time in Jesus name.
Jehovah sees & He hears…He will never leave you nor forsake you. Keep encouraging yourself in the Lord your God like David Did.
Trust the Lord to give you strength to praise him for this situation for all things work together for good.
The Father of the fatherless is our God & He is the helper of the helpless.
We put all our trust in Him concerning the sentencing.
I pray that every power of darkness that has been assigned to torment you further be bound & cast into Abyss in Jesus mighty name. I pray the Lord of Host whose name is THE LORD will send his angels ahead of you to the court room & that these angels of God will be present with you there & will be directed by the Holy Spirit on all that needs to be done to ensure your freedom in Jesus mighty name. AMEN
I pray the living God who is the Alpha & Omega will be the judge tomorrow & our merciful & loving Saviour – The Lord Jesus Christ will be your advocate in the mighty name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Let the peace of God rule in your heart my beloved sister. We will keep praying.
Sade Tennyson
Sade Tennyson
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 8:57am:Brethren on this blog.
As many as can, kindly rememeber to take at least 3 minutes every hour to pray for sister Jo from now till after the sentencing.
I pray the Holy Spirit will lead you all in what to pray & I pray the Lord will speak forth for sister Jo tomorrow.
Thanks so much CSE TEAM for this update & for this focus on sister Jo’s sentencing. The Lord will encourage you all as well. The Lord will assist you in this task & uphold you & sustain your ministry in Jesus name.
Eric & Hovind’s family ….It is well in Jesus name.
I praise the Lord for this situation and I give thanks to the Lord God for it for He said we should give thanks to Him in all things.
Rememeber many are the afflictions of the righteous BUT the Lord delievreth him out of them all. The Lord will deliver brother Kent & sister Jo from this affliction of the enemy in Jesus name. AMEN.
Sade Tennyson.
lhoover
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 9:30am:Greetings to all, and may the Good Lord be with the Hovind family during this terrible ordeal. Keep the faith because we know the outcome as Christians. Praise God this is not our home, and praise him for his boundless grace. Peace to all. LH
Harriet
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 11:10am:Mrs. Hovind, Eric, Dr. Kent, & CSE staff,
and friends,
We’re crying out to God on your behalf!
In Christ,
Harriet
ABeliever
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 11:34am:Dear Mrs Hovind.
I am praying for you and your husband that God will be glorifed in this entire situation. I do not know the details of what has happened, i do not know if you aided your husband in doing wrong, I do not know if he did this alone. All I know is that if anything was ever done wrong by the both of you that sin needs to be confessed before God and left up to Him. I am by no means perfect in any way, I am a christian and I know how tough the Christian walk can be and how this world blinds us to the good and perfect things of God. All I ask is that you trust in God to make the right decisions and He will take care of you no matter what happens. If by some chance you are found guilty and you are sent off to jail, I pray that God will give you strength and that you will not be disheartened. My prayers continually go out to you and your husband. I pray that you and your husband will be stronger when he comes out of this ordeal, and that he also will remember what he has done wrong, and realize that God sees everything that he does. and if God sees sin, He is not happy. I mean well by what I say, I enjoy Mr Hovinds’ dvds and his wit, humor and steadfastness for the things of God. thank you
ABeliever
Geno
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 12:15pm:While I believe Mr. Hovind has been given a sentence in keeping with his actions, it is my belief that Mrs. Hovind is largely a victim in this situation. It is my hope that she be given noting more serious than probation.
pabramson
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 2:03pm:Last July, during the police raid, Mrs. Jo Hovind was awoken after they surrounded the bed, and taken out without being allowed to get dressed or use the bathroom. This was in front of CSE staff and her neighbors. (Is it the purpose of the police to apprehend suspects or to inflict “preventive punishment”?) In the USA a court is to determine guilt; using the due process of law. Only after conviction is one to be “punished” and that according to sentencing guidelines. (Do the prosecutors in this case care about the due process of law, and the proper treatment of suspects?) She almost did not eat for a week after that terrifying experience. American citizens are supposed to have rights. Some of these were denied in her case. Officials are supposed to be trained in their responsibilities; but I have to question the training given to those officers, as they do arrests everyday. Is this how they apprehend any suspect, using shock and humiliation? She sat quietly at the trial last Oct-Nov. Now she awaits sentencing, tomorrow morning at 9AM.
Zarathustra
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 3:06pm:I don’t agree with Mr. Hovind in any way, but I think Mrs. Hovind’s been through enough in the past, and I hope the judge will be very lenient. I’ll be thinking of you tomorrow, Jo.
A human being.
YoCuzwaasup
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 3:08pm:I believe Kent Hovind is a Patriot. (A dead word in our society). Patriot- A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors. (Detractor- noun; a person who disparages someone or something). How do you think the wives of the signers of the Declaration of Independence would have felt if England won instead of the States? Now the States are fighting the same type of men that stood for truth and justice. Now, as then the colonists were being abused, over taxed and frustrated into submission. What is the difference with this case? Some may think the Kent Hovind is not remorseful … I like to say,(as a man myself who experienced the courts through divorce) … I had a story to tell and a point to prove, but, realized I was going to lose. I quit.
I won’t be half the man in my life time that Kent Hovind is, so as the court is set up on matters like his, “Frustrate you into submission”, and do not follow due process, shame on those who were given justice to uphold and do not. There is a Judge that will judge you. When that time comes, may He have mercy on your soul, if you hurt one of those little ones, who believe on Him.
Dr. Hovind to up date how this injustice sparked my fire … to date, I have given out over 300 DVD, to schoolchildren and teens wherever I do my side job. I just came back from New Orleans, another botched job left in the government hands. The same judge who heard your case should preside over F.E.M.A. in LA. 100,000 people applied for help, and only 18 received it? The law is not fair. I was at Trinity Church and they are truly Gods hands on earth. We helped 2 families they’re fixing their houses and cleaning up the streets of New Orleans. It is a mess out there. And EVERYONE IS ashamed of how after 2 ½ years they still have not gotten the help so desperately needed.
And the IRS is worried about little ole you? “Whose coffee you pee in”?
Kent I just wanted to say, there were 150 kids there, from 3 different youth groups from 3 different states. Know what I gave them, Your DVD’s. I guess in trying to shut you up, you just got louder. Interesting.
I think of Daniel, and that Stone carved with out human hands. Smashing the kingdoms of the world and the Stone’s offspring (Which is the People of God) growing and growing taking over the earth. Not with our own agenda, but with the agenda of God the Father, Jesus at His side, and the Holy Ghost, showing us through the Word what to do next. You hang tough brother… your reward is coming.
The reward of your enemy is also coming.
Sisterfriend
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 3:59pm:Greetings to Kent, Jo, and the whole Hovind family,
as well as the CSE staff, and all involved with the wonderful ministry that our Lord and Father has blessed you with, and called you to;
I was raised on the Bible and homeschooled in the Ozark hills of Missouri. I learned to love and worship The Most Hight God and to read His Word. I believed that the Creation story, as well as the Flood story, were literal History. But as I grew into my middle teens, the advisary was at work in our home, and our family fell apart. Much of the witness of my parents ruined because of them teaching us one thing, and living another. Throughout my life I found it so hard to talk to others about the Bible, because they all had different explanations for it, based on their limited experience and finite intelligence. They were so sure there was no way it could have happen like the Bible said it did. It was so frustrating, so I just closed my mouth and stopped arguing…
One of the most powerful events in my life was when my husband left me. I began to question everything I thought I knew. I had been praying, and I could not understand what happened, and why God had let it come to this, but I knew He did not make mistakes, so I chose to trust Him. Eventually, my husband began to build his own relationship with God, and he chose to come home. God knew what was needed to answer the prayers I had been praying.
My sister shared your Creation Science Seminar with me about that time, and I became so excited! It was true! The things I had learned way back in my childhood were true! Furthermore, there was proof… Someone had researched it and was telling everyone! What a powerful conformation! I know God has used you like this so many times!
What a privelage we have to be able to come to Him, to seek His presence, to make our patitions known to Him, to be able to Listen… to Him! You have been and remain in our hearts and prayers!!! God knows what He is doing!!! He has known all along, and the day is not far off, when every knee shall bow, and every tounge shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord!!! He is with you both, Kent and Jo. He will not take you anywhere that you do not need to go, for your training and purpose that He has chosen from before you were born. He has been down the road already.
Not everyone was invited into the garden to pray with Him, the night He was crucified. Out of those who were, none watched and prayed with Him the whole night… He is taking you farther into the garden than most are willing to go… watch and pray…
I will watch and pray with you both. I will join my faith with these others who are watching and praying for the Lord to have His way, and to accomplish His purpose. I will trust you to His care, for there is no better place to be, than in the garden with Him…
For Jesus Sake,
Sister Cheryl
amigas
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 4:24pm:Dear Jo,
My heart aches with just the thought of what you must be going through. My prayer is that God pour his grace out upon you and your family during this time of the unknown and may the peace that passeth all understanding be everpresent with you during these next few hours. I also pray that you spend no time in jail from now on.
Remember this world is not you home and God’s grace will be sufficient.
With Love from the Schmeling family.
GORGE
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 4:32pm:It’s my earnest desire that Kent will be realised soon and Jo be not unjustly charged.
I pray that through this suffering you might Know Him in greater glory, that His face may shine on you more and more as you give Gory and rightousness to God in every situation.
I hope and pray that we all grow in God, to know the hope of His calling in Christ Jesus, even in (and maybe because of ) , what could seem to the natural man, a hope against hope. We know though that hope which is our anchor. A hope that is steadfast and true, and also our unshakable rock; who is Christ Jesus.
Finally, just to say, as I am one of the millions of people who have been blessed and encouraged by watching Dr Hovinds excellent DVDS:-
A big Thanks to you for all the years of vital support you have givern to the ministry of CSE, out of your own free will and because of your love and service to the Lord and Kent.
It has not been without problems, what is? especally when things are done for the lord, The Book of Nehemiah is an excellent reference for this truth.
The God of this world is full of wrath.
Nonetheless your hard work has NOT been in vain, infact as we see the ripples, anything but. And these naturel ripples of success do not compare nor even touch the true rewards of saved souls and treasures in Heaven, which we do not perceive at this time.
Godbless you Mrs Hovind, I really respect you and your family. You are a precious sister in Christ. Thankyou once again.
sballinger
Said this on June 28th, 2007 at 11:52pm:We are praying for you.
Elethiomel
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 2:45am:I have to say I felt extremely sorry for Mrs Hovind when I heard the phonecall she had with her husband just before his sentencing. He seemed far more interested in his own righteousness than what he had done to her. I would think that what she has done is because of her belief that she should defer to her husband. I am in two minds as to whether she should have a custodial sentence or not, since she did break the law as Kent did, but under far more duress. I also feel that while kent may be impervious to the nature of his guilt and seems to be rather enjoying the opportunity to evangelise to criminals, his wife will have a far harder time in jail.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 4:49am:Dear Brother Kent,
this is just a quick word of encouragement. Tonight I went to a meeting of Melbourne’s Humanist Society [Humanist Society of Victoria, actually]. There was a panel discussion and presentation by 2 PhD’s and one professional scientist cum humanist. – the PhD’s were one economist and one professor of philosophy and the third guy, a scientist of some description, I just didn’t quite catch [Dr John Perkins, Professor Graham Oppy and Stephen Stuart]. The discussion/ presentation was two hours long on Dawkins’ “The God Delusion”.
You will be pleased to know that of a two hour discussion about God not existing there was not one shred of scientific evidence discussed. The night was all about philosophy, morality, ethics, some basics on logic, word definitions, semantic arguments, what awe-full things “fundamentalists” have done; how wicked religion is etc. etc. etc. [about 15 times I heard the mention of nasty Islamic fundamentalists flying planes into buildings - if your eyes are fast shut to one subject they will be fast closed to many others also] I say again, there was no science during the whole of the evening. No-one brought it up. They are the church that forms to attack the church they cannot belong to. It was so very interesting because of the subject material they all avoided. Nothing on human consciousness, information technology, the mind, the origin of the universe or abiogenesis. Yet this was supposedly a discussion about the non-existence of God.
It has partly been your example that has given me the absolute confidence to walk into a group discussion as the only Christian in a group of 70 pseudo intellectuals to tackle subjects relating to fundamental axioms of faith with ease and confidence. One of the speakers called religion a pathological condition. I walked up to him after the meeting, shook his hand, explained who I was and said his comments didn’t bother me one bit. I laughed the whole way home. He looked so uncomfortable. thanks again.
Brother; Phillip-George (c)1974
all Glory to Jesus. [JR Turner is right - the fraud continues - pps: I got the PhD economist above to admit (after the main panel meeting was over) that all money is debt created and that the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank is a private foreign owned company - the fraud, indeed, continues]
Publius Syrus 42 B.C. “No one should be judge in his own cause.”
Thus may Jesus Christ, the Creator of Heavens and this Earth, judge between you and those holding anything against you. May He be swift in Judgement for your cause.
samuel
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 5:11am:We are still praying for you Kent and Jo over here in the UK. We are specifically praying for you today Jo, that your sentencing will go according to the will of God, and that his will is not to see you behind bars. But remember, the Lord will never give you anything more than you can bear, so even if things don’t go your way, do not despair, have faith that the Lord knows exactly what he is doing and will bring you through these trials stronger than ever!
Ekkman said this:
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Psa 66:18)
This shows us that we cannot play with deliberate sin and think the Lord will listen to our prayers. He is a holy and pure God and will not play with sin.
I don’t think this shows anything of the sort dear brother, our sin has now and will be washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ. (Jesus had not yet taken the sins of the world upon himself, so King David, when he wrote this, did not understand the redemption in Christ) The bible says: pray without ceasing! Not: pray when not sinning! God is not only holy and pure, but he is eternally loving, merciful and just.
We are far from perfect, but does this mean the Lord doesn’t hear and answer prayer whether we sin deliberately or not, whether we are righteous or unrighteous in our eyes or others eyes? I have only recently in the past few years really begun to understand the true love and mercy of the living God. (Romans had a lot to do with this)
So when are we to pray? Only when sin is not in our heart or when we think we have been righteous enough for the Lord to answer? NO! PRAY WITHOUT CEASING! IN EVERYTHING GIVE THANKS!
If I were to sit around all day worrying if the Lord is going to hear & answer my prayers because I’m not sure if I’ve been good enough I’d be a nervous wreck and I wouldn’t pray as much as I should or could.
Romans does quite a good job at explaining.
Romans 5:12-21 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Our faith is counted as righteousness folks, all of the true saved born again believers have been officially pardoned from the wages of sin which is death by God himself through the blood of the Lamb. Anyone who tries to make you feel bad or condemns you for what they believe is sin/iniquity is speaking from the mouth of Satan himself, the accuser of the saints. (see Revelation chapter 12)
There is a clear difference between 1) a brother or sister in Christ lovingly and privately telling you they are genuinely concerned about something you are doing wrong and 2) a supposed “loving brother or sister in Christ” getting all self righteous and proud, accusing and condemning you for what they see as sin/iniquity.
Accusers, you know who you are. You are not helping further the Gospel with your blatant self righteousness and holier than thou attitude. (I don’t mean you Ekkman)
It is Jesus Christ and he alone that can save us, NOT our own righteousness!
Romans 3:19-31: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Keep fighting the good fight everyone! In prayer with endless faith and eternal love through the grace of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!
God bless you.
Sam.
Jersey Girl
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 6:50am:Dear Sister Jo,
You have been in my prayers every day this whole week. May God bestow his almighty wisdom upon the judicial staff that they may have mercy upon one who is beloved of the Lord. Brother Abramson, please let us know as soon as you hear anything. We are all very worried.
Rebecca
campsuz
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 7:56am:praying
Mattwerk
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 7:57am:Good luck Jo – may God be with you. It would not surprise me though if she was sent to jail, the USA is hardly a country with morals or common sense. But then, which country is! I hope she is spared, and that they see sense and set Brother Kent free too.
Just to let you know – we have another brother saved here! I gave my colleague (equally passionate about the Lord and about the Hovind DVDs) the download links for the seminars, and he passed them on to his manager in IT. Having started with just one, he listened to all 7 in just about 2 days, and has repented for ever believing in the evolution hoax. AMEN! Next case is to show him why the KJV is the only Bible. This guy, who loves Jesus and is a qualified pastor, did not know about Bible (per)versions and just as little about evolution vs creation. Just goes to show, education counts for nothing…
(incidentally I am still battling to get a copy of the Q&A and Garden of Eden DVDs – they are like hens teeth down in South Africa!)
Godspeed Kent and Jo,
Matt
Three Crosses
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 10:46am:Dear Mediator/Editor we would appreciate a “nonbiased update”.
After checking the news feeds, everyone was in such a hurry to get out their opinions and wishlists of what they wanted to happen. they didn’t even check their spelling, before releasing their opinions! My spelling isn’t so hot but I’m not a supposed news outlet either.
For the first time in weeks the national news search actually turned something up, but the supposed news reports don’t even agree with each other. We continue to pray for an end to the media’s persecution of the Hovind’s.
Three Crosses
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 11:37am:Hey the news outlets are awfully confusing today 2 reports state that Dino Adventure Land is closed and out of buisness. While a third says it is still open. We will keep the ministry in our prayers! It seems that if it is not closed they are sure trying to damage it’s reputation. God bless america God save us all!
Canadian friends
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 12:08pm:I just read on the Pensacola news journal site that Mrs. Hovind got a year plus a day in Federal Prison, plus an $8000 fine. This is a complete outrage! I can’t believe what she has to go through! We are still praying for you all, the whole Hovind family, and CSE team. Keep fighting the Good fight! There is no justice in the hands of men, only our Good Father in heaven will make things right!
We send our love and prayers,
Your friends in Canada!
clundgren
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 12:48pm:The Pensacola New Journal has the sentencing outcome posted:
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070629/NEWS01/70629014
JakobHarper
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 3:00pm:Just wondering what happened at the sentencing today. Any news? My prayers are with the Hovinds.
I have been watching Dr. Hovind’s tapes for about 10 years now and I have always thought to myself that he would be assasinated for sticking it the man(evolution theory). I volunteer for personal body guard when he gets out and starts dropping the hammer on them once again. I wonder what they’ll think of next time to shut him up. Truth can’t be silenced.
EndTimes
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 3:50pm:Dear Mr. and Mrs. Hovind,
I am saddened that your wife received any prison term whatsoever and my household will stay in prayer that this will be overturned on appeal. I cannot see any public good to incarcerating a first time offender of a nonviolent “crime” of withdrawing her own money from her own bank. We are now in the ridiculous country where first and even second or third time drug abusers in my state are allowed a non-custodial sentence and after completing an outpatient drug “rehab” program, have the felony offense expunged entirely from their record. If you kill a person, but only one, you will most likely get less time than Kent Hovind did. Child molesters who are a danger to society are often given probation and still walk the streets. The sentence against Mrs. Hovind is not called for in the name any public protection whatsoever. I take back any remarks about possible mercy from this judge that I stated earlier.
May the Lord God of Heaven protect this godly grandmother and keep her from serving even one day in Caesar’s jailhouse. Our prayers are with you.
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070629/NEWS01/70629014/1006
crowmagnet
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 6:29pm:Jo Hovind, the wife of creationist theme-park owner Kent Hovind, stood solemnly beside her attorney Friday as U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers handed down a sentence of one year and one day in federal prison.
Jo Hovind, 51, also was ordered to pay $8,000 in fines and three years supervision when she is released from prison.
Hovind was found guilty in November on 45 counts of evading bank-reporting requirements. The same jury found her husband guilty on 58 federal counts, including failure to pay $845,000 in employee-related taxes. He was sentenced in January to 10 years in federal prison.
Jo Hovind’s attorney, Jerry Barringer, said after the sentencing that he plans to file an appeal against the guilty verdict as well as the prison sentence.
Well I prayed for the least time possible because I knew that she would have to serve some time. Not that I wanted her to serve anytime but one year and one day is a whole lot better than 225 years! Now it’s time to pray for the for that appeal to go through.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 8:15pm:“So all of you voters out there, you who believe that you have the right to pass laws (laws are things which ‘authorize’ enforcement by the police), just remember that, at the very least, you are the equivalent to those in that bar room who were cheering on the rapists. You may not have the guts to just go out there and take what you want by force, but you can ‘get your rocks off’ by cheering on those brutal enough to violate others with your support.” Column by NonEntity.
How is it that anarchists are now among the the most morally cogent contributors to the web?
I will say this again. The prisoner movements that Brother Kent has been subjected to are designed to create mental anguish and emotional pain. That is torture.
In any language those remaining silent are acquiescent by default.
The apparent “torture”, I believe, is the basis for writs and injunctions and the filing or lodging of criminal charges against specific individuals. If local courts will not listen, the matter should be taken to the International Community.
If “darling”’s surname is Heldmyer or Powe and she (or he?) are aware of efforts of appeal being undertaken I would have thought that their presence on this blog could be construed as attempts to pervert the course of justice. I would have thought it was incumbent upon the web master to have the matter investigated by the department of justice.
Silence is acquiescence by default. Jesus said, “Whoever is not against us is for us”. This principle is ubiquitous in law.
The criminal Justice system uses this same biblical principle to assert imprimatur over its own actions – repeatedly, daily, universally!
Are your hands clean? If they are not, you should be deeply disturbed. May Jesus strike fast, cleanly and deeply. Even to the very divisions the Holy Spirit promises
Galatians110vt
Said this on June 29th, 2007 at 10:33pm:Wow the judge must like her alot. To get away with just 366 days is a miracle. I hope the hovinds learn from this and press on. As paul once said in Romans, “Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”
praybird
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 6:13am:pabramson,
Thank you for telling this, I didn’t know what happened, My question is, aren’t people innocent till proven guilty? This is a serious violation of American citizens. It is Indecent and Inhuman behavior. Yet from what I understand the IRS has somehow been able to use this kind of treatment and misuse and abuse of authority. Yet they seem to be above the Law. I asked a question before.
Who owns the IRS? From what I understand it is not the US govenernment business but a privately owned business. I don’t much about it.
The Govenor needs to know of this and how Mrs. Hovind was treated.
Does anyone know what has happened with the sentancing??? We have been praying here in our family for the Hovinds. Please let us know, so we know what to pray for and how to pray for Her. Lord wrap your arms of Love and strength around this precious Lady. Keep her safe from evil. Deliver Her in the Precious name of Jesus. Amen. from Brenda and Don
Harriet
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 8:48am:want the Hovind perspective. still praying!
pabramson
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 9:05am:===========================================================
Yesterday, (Fri, 6-29) was a very difficult day for the Hovind Family and for CSE. As you know from posts above, Mrs. Jo Hovind was sentenced to one year and one day in prison, to begin in August, plus a fine. It was on the local TV news in Pensacola, and in the the liberal local newspaper, where the coverage all along has been tainted with inaccuracies.
The Hovind Family, per my opinion, is saddened, but also somewhat relieved. So much was at the discretion of the judge. No one knew what the sentence would be. The prosecution had pressed for a harsher sentence, of course.
–Tomorrow, I will let through all of the DEBATE POSTINGS that I have been holding back for most of the past week. Apologies for the delay to the debate participants! Paul Abramson
===========================================================
GORGE
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 9:11am:Dear Jo,
I did write a short post the other day, sadly it has not appeared on the blog, perhaps it was lost in e-space.
I am very sad to read you were givern a custodial sentence.
Proverbs 3:5
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Godbless
btodd
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 11:14am:It’s probably pointless to reply, because my last post was *REMOVED*. Apparently, we should all just pat each other on the back here, and just nod approvingly at anything Kent does or says.
Jo got off very lucky. Anyone claiming this is an ‘outrage’ or blaming others for the illegal and deceptive acts of the Hovinds is delusional. While I do feel sorry for Jo (who gets bullied into submission on the YouTube tapes)for being trapped by her own belief in being ’submissive to her husband’, when he is clearly wrong and unable to admit it.
Please people, take a step back for a moment. This is not an unwarranted persecution of Kent Hovind by (as he stated) ‘evil, wicked people’. I only wish that each time I do something wrong, I could blame it on those who hold me accountable. Oh, that officer who wrote me a speeding ticket? Evil!
This is the danger in believing that you are ‘on God’s side’ or that He is on yours. And unfortunately, many Christians will not question their own, because he has equated his beliefs and actions with God’s will. This simply isn’t true.
I don’t wish Kent any harm in prison, nor Jo. But let’s stop playing this ‘everyone’s out to get us!’ game and admit when we’re wrong. That’s the same game played by Scientology and many other ideologies that act as if they are inerrant. Claiming conspiracy is very popular these days, and I think it’s highly disengenuous.
Btodd
warocuya
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 11:55am:Galatians110vt,
The next time the governement decides to cleanse certain groups and you are one of them, I’ll have to obey ok. Nothing personal.
Strange, wasn’t Paul killed for not obeying the governement. They said “denounce Christ” and he didn’t. What a hypocrite. Tell us to do something and he won’t do it himself.
I studied Greek and Hebrew for 6 years and graduated with a MA, I don’t think Romans 13 means what you think it means.
Elethiomel,
Break the law? Kent & Jo broke the law? Please, this country stole our land and murders it’s own children.
Warocuya,
Three Crosses
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 12:38pm:Dear Mr. Abramson was Mrs. Hovind convicted of withdrawing less money than she had to report? I know this may seem like a silly question but the different press outlets seem to say this. If so, how is that a crime couldn’t they charge “anyone” with that?
With love your brother in Christ
Michael Deas
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 1:04pm:Making deposits that are in total under $10,000 is not, nor has it ever been illegal. The structuring law says making several deposits totaling more than $10,000 in one day to avoid reporting is illegal. The deposits were never split up, and never were more than $10,000 in one day.
Judge Casey Rogers changed the wording to include making deposits just under the $10,000 reporting limit.
Judge Casey Rogers is a criminal!!!
Sade Tennyson
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 2:28pm:Sister Jo, In all things we give thanks to God for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning us.
We have handed over this case to our living & just God who is the judge of all.
There is nothing too difficult for our living God to handle.
We’ll keep waiting to see the salvation of our living God in this unjust sentencing.
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of all creation – Jehovah sees.
Well, the game plan of giving sister Jo 366 days in prison to reduce the outcry of people if the sentencing is more can fool men BUT God is not Mocked….
Brother Hovind & Sister Jo are INNOCENT & are just being persecuted for theirt faith in the living God & for their stand that God exists & that he created the world – man can be fooled that this is not the cae BUT GOD is not mocked…..I pray for those the devil is using to persecute them that soon they will all come to the saving knowledge of the just God & be delivered from the captivity of the devil. I pray that someday, they will preach the gospel that they once hate…like it happened to brother Paul in the Bible in Jesus name. Amen.
I pray that our living God who is just will shake all the shakeables & overturn sister Jo’s sentencing.
I plead the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ over the whole sentencing & I take the whole case before the throne of justice of the living God in Jesus name. His (God’s) will be done in Jesus name. Amen.
For all the brethren that prayed, the mercy & goodness of the Lord be upon you in Jesus name.
Thanks brother Paul Abramson & CSE team for the blog focussed posting on sister Jo Hovind’s sentencing.
Brother Paul Abramson, I hereby make a request that we can have one week every Month where the blog can be MAINLY focused on supporting brother Hovind & sister Jo without debates, to help freshen their case up in brethren’s minds so that they can be refreshed in their zeal in praying for the Hovinds. I believe they really need undistracted support of prayers / encouraging words & brethren supporting them need to have at least a week in a month where the postings on the blog would be mainly for support to the Hovinds & prayers for them & the ministry.
I give thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ for everything for in all things we are to give thanks to God.
Sade Tennyson.
Pete Hall 1
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 2:37pm:I don’t post a comment very often, but I just thought it appropriate to show my support by saying that I pray for Kent Hovind and his family regularly, you are all often in my thoughts. I have never met any of you, but I greatly appreciate the ministry you have built up from afar, over here in England. The church in this country is under a great cloud of darkness, there are lots of false teachers and prophets leading the churches and CSE has been a great blessing and refreshment to me. There are a few good Christians over here who are eager to effect change and to get out there and preach the Gospel and save souls. I am hoping to use Creation as a tool for preaching. I have just written and printed 5000 leaflets to give out in my town centre. The people are in darkness and they need to be shown the light. The mainstream churches are not doing it, so it is up to us few to try and make a difference.
Hang on in there guys, God sees all and He’s bursting with love for you.
In Jesus name………….. Pete H
praybird
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 3:28pm:Paul Abramson,
If the sentance doesn’t start till August, is Jo Hovind free till that time? Can they appeal quickly as to stop the sentance from being carried out? Please let us know about this. This is extremely urgent that they do everything possible as to keep her from going there.
Also if anyone knows about the IRS? I am ashamed to say that I thought the US govenment owned the IRS and I never questioned it all these years although I did question as to the abuse and the shame and humiliation that they were able to get away with. I have another question? I wonder if these same judges would rethink how they are sentancing people, like the Hovinds, is money more important than crimes? I wonder what the Judges would think if one of their family or children was attacked by a child molester?????? I saw on TV recently of many child molesters right there in Florida. And one of them a priest and also a rabbi.
In our area in Missouri it seems the baptists and the assemblies of God are in competition as to who is going to build the biggest church. 2 mega churches of each denomination. My son visited one of them and he was not impressed. He didn’t want to go back. What do I say to him? When he was 11 he was personally attacked by a man in the church we went too. I testified and the guy got 14 years, had I not testified I wonder what would have happened. I pray for our churches. I pray for our leaders, there are hungry souls who want to be fed the real meat of the word not power hungry men who want to feed themselves and make their ministries look good. Lord give us revival your people are hungry. from Brenda and Don
joshrjb
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 5:42pm:I agree with EndTimes that Jo Hovind should not have received any jail time. I also believe that 10 years of imprisonment for Kent Hovind is way too long. There are guys living in my town who molested children and served less than 2 years in jail. Hovind has served more than half a year; one would think that would satisfy the courts and they would let him go home.
Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 7:41pm:Dear Brothers,
just a simple perspective overview: Brother Kent’s family is doing a lot better that tens of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani families. Mrs Hovind still has a husband she can communicate with and children with all their limbs attached.
Also, if Brother Kent’s conviction gets overturned because of a constitutionally criminal nature to the charges, and he is freed and waiting for his wife to be released, then she can sleep assured that he will not run off with some other woman. He is not the philandering type.
Also, I secretly suspect that Samphire and FuManChu are quietly offering up prayers of thanksgiving to God that they are not United States’ citizens, denizens or aliens – even if table 25 through to 10,000 does miraculously apply to them.
Brother Branham said an insanity would descend upon the western world in its death throws. So we can all give thanks that Paris Hilton found a bible to read and found “great reward” stored up in even earthly vaults for all of her pain and suffering. God is not mocked.
ps. I was just looking over St Malachy O’Morgair’s [1094-1148] visions and I am quietly confident that what ever status quo settles upon all these bloodied noses that there will be a much greater interruption soon to to come, to be laid squarely upon all of the plans of mere mortal men. And every knee shall bend.
All Glory to Jesus; returning to the legal obfuscations in more specific detail next week, God willing.
Jason
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 8:02pm:Dear Kent & Jo Hovind,
I am sorry to hear the news that Jo has been given a prison sentence, I truly am very saddened. I’m sure that this must feel like the worst thing that has ever happened to you. Please take heart and know that many people have benefited from the lives you have lead, and the message you have spread. Please stand strong together, whist apart, don’t grow weary of doing good and know that you are very very loved.
God has his reward for you.
Lots of love
Jason x
Jason
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 8:04pm:Dear EndTimes.
I am sorry that over the past week I have not been able to write, I wish to make it clear that Philip-Georges opinions of you are his and his alone. Any appreciation that I have offered to him was given as an encouragement for his support to Kent Hovinds cause. I have no appreciation within me for his attitude towards you, these are his issues not mine, and I would have nothing to do with them. In fact I now lament over another instance where the world sees the body of Christ divided.
Jesus gave us a commandment to love one another, this commandment I find very motivating. I see different qualities in different people, some are better at one thing and others something different. This is how I see us all being different parts of the same body… The Body of Christ. If the hand were to say to the eye because you are not a hand therefore you are not a part of the body, the hand would be in error and the eye would never the less remain part of the body.
John 13:35 By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another.
With Love
Jason x
Jason
Said this on June 30th, 2007 at 8:10pm:Dear Australian Phillip George,
Please forgive me for not replying sooner…
My desire, is to see God glorified, & He will be glorified.
___________________
andries quoted these scriptures at 1:54pm June 13th
Mat 7:1-2 Judge not, that you may not be judged. (2) For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, that he also will reap.
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you.
1 John 3:16 By this we have known the love of God, because He laid down His life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
John 13:35 By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another.
__________________
Jesus said the greatest commandment was to Love God, and then to love your neighbour as yourself. Yet People say “Lord, Lord” but then do not do as Jesus says.
We have been commanded to Love one another to treat one another as we would like to be treat ourselves. I don’t believe that the emphasis on Love in scripture can be understated. Why else would Jesus have gone to the cross for us whist we were still his enemies?
You are commanded by God to Love EndTimes…
Phillip-George You call me a fan of EndTimes; I suspect that EndTimes could say that I have been more of a fan of yourself as I believe (up until recently) I have been far more complementary of you than him. However I have no desire to take part in a division let alone be partisan, except to say that I appreciate people who stand up and fight for the glorification of God.
Reading EndTimes posts upon this blog, which are many, There has been occasions where I have thought, “That could have been said better, or does he mean this or that?” Upon EndTimes request I elaborated on such an issue 19th June, and EndTimes offered his agreement to the issue I saw. I am left with no other nit to pick.
In comparison my contribution to this blog has been very poor
EndTimes doesn’t write scripture, he is a sinner like everyone else, and like everyone else he is not going to see Heaven in anyway shape or form except by the Grace of God. I have no reason to believe that EndTimes isn’t totally depending upon that Grace for his salvation.
You wrote “Church is nothing more or less than the body of Born Again Christians meeting however they will. Where ever two or more are gathered.”
I personally find this description way too loose,
It appears to me that reading Romans 13 leaders are ordained by God, Paul also talks about ministries which again appear to be ordained by God. I read Pauls writings (his instructions to the churches) and I see structure & depth.
You also wrote “The bible says to guard your lips lest you curse what God has made in his own image; even unintentionally.” I’m not sure of the scripture or exact wording, but I whole heartedly agree with the sentiment.
I am still not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet about EndTimes, I am commanded to love both him & also you as brothers within the body of Christ. Please don’t make it difficult.
I can’t find the scripture off hand, but it says in Proverbs, ( to the effect of ) getting involved in an argument between two others is like picking a dog up by its ears… I guess the implication is you get bitten. I hope this doesn’t happen to me.
Lots of Love
Jason x
PS. I normally try to take my Bible quotes actually from the Bible, unfortunately in writing this I mostly had to use my memory. So please don’t examine the letter of my words but rather the spirit in which I tried to write. (that is to make peace, bring love, and honour Gods commandments towards us).
Jenny C
Said this on July 1st, 2007 at 8:08am:Hovind family, as I am ready for church this Sunday, my eyes are filled with tears for you. My heart goes out to you more than you know. My prayers are with you and your whole family. If there is anything we can do for you, outside of prayer, let us know. I understand you are a God fearing family and for that you will be truly blest.
mtlionsroar
Said this on July 1st, 2007 at 11:58am:Dear Paul:
Thank you for your work! and for keeping us up-to-date with what’s going on. Praying for you and CSE staff.
Dear Mrs. Hovind:
Sorry to hear about your sentencing. I will be praying for you and the work you have lying ahead like your husband. Go get ‘em! Win those souls!
Dear Kent:
Thanks again for your updates (looking forward to more) and your work. I will continue to bring you (family & staff) before the Throne of Grace. May God grant you all peace and comfort, as only He can give.
Dee
GORGE
Said this on July 1st, 2007 at 2:25pm:Dear Mr and Mrs Hovind,
PSALMS CHAPTER 13
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?
2 How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart daily? how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me?
3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
4 Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him; and those that trouble me rejoice when I am moved.
5 But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.
6 I will sing unto the LORD, because he hath dealt bountifully with me.
Psalm17
¶ Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings,
9 From the wicked that oppress me, from my deadly enemies, who compass me about.
10 They are inclosed in their own fat: with their mouth they speak proudly.
11 They have now compassed us in our steps: they have set their eyes bowing down to the earth;
12 Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places.
13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:
14 From men which are thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.
15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
Godbless.
Ekkman
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 1:14am:Jun
30praybird
Said this at 3:28pm:
——————————————————————————–
Paul Abramson,
If the sentance doesn’t start till August, is Jo Hovind free till that time? Can they appeal quickly as to stop the sentance from being carried out? Please let us know about this. This is extremely urgent that they do everything possible as to keep her from going there.
Also if anyone knows about the IRS? I am ashamed to say that I thought the US govenment owned the IRS and I never questioned it all these years although I did question as to the abuse and the shame and humiliation that they were able to get away with. I have another question? I wonder if these same judges would rethink how they are sentancing people, like the Hovinds, is money more important than crimes? I wonder what the Judges would think if one of their family or children was attacked by a child molester?????? I saw on TV recently of many child molesters right there in Florida. And one of them a priest and also a rabbi.
Praybird,
Here is an article worth reading to help you see the shape of our government and those in high places.
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/22457.html
If you really want to see a little clearer the perverted, sick government that we have then read this page.
http://freehovind.com/info-hovind’s_legal_battles
To see a little deeper into Kent’s legal battles.
Under “info” on the http://www.Freehovind.com/info page
praybird
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 5:28am:Just wanted to add something to my last post. We must remember that Kent Hovind left his teaching career to start teaching about the Lies in the Textbooks, Lies about evolution, and also teaching about the biblical floods and the Truths of the Bible. He cared enough to share what he knew to everyone who will listen. Several years ago, I had bought Hugh Ross book on creationism. But it was so technical I didn’t understand much of it. He used the word processes alot. But Kent made this so simple as for everyone to understand. I wish that Hugh Ross would have teamed up with Kent, as the Lord wants to bring unity to the body of Christ. There was a conflict between them on the flood, whether it was world wide or local. Hugh argued it was local. And what Kent said blessed me so much, he said ” if it was a local flood why didn’t God tell Noah to move?” and this is so true, If it had been a local flood all Noah needed to do was just move away somewhere else. Dr. Kent thank you for obeying the Lord, making these videos. We continue to support and pray, for an overturn of the sentances. And that Jo won’t have to go. Please keep us informed as so we know how to pray for them. We are in agreement with our fellow christians on here for the Hovinds. God bless from Brenda and Don
samuel
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 6:06am:Hi all.
First of all I would like to say that I am in no way trying to point the finger at anyone here, and I do not think I am better than anyone or that I am righteous. I am honestly a worthless sinner and without the Lord Jesus Christ in my life I would be totally lost.
This is a revision & re-post of an earlier post, as I have gone over it and I have come across as a bit self righteous myself. I am sorry to all concerned.
Ekkman said this:
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Psa 66:18)
This shows us that we cannot play with deliberate sin and think the Lord will listen to our prayers. He is a holy and pure God and will not play with sin.
Dear brother, our sin will be washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. (Jesus had not yet taken the sins of the world upon himself at this point in time, so King David, when he wrote this, did not understand the redemption in Christ) The Bible says: pray without ceasing! Not: pray when not sinning! God is not only holy and pure, but he is eternally loving, merciful and just.
1John 1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
We are far from perfect, but does this mean the Lord doesn’t hear and answer prayer whether we sin deliberately or not, whether we are righteous or unrighteous in our eyes or others eyes? I have only recently, in the past few years, really begun to understand the true love and mercy of the living God. (Romans had a lot to do with this)
Often in the past I felt condemned because I did so many things wrong and it seemed hopeless trying to be a good Christian. Truth is, there is no such thing as a “good Christian” in the eyes of God. Just because we are Christians and new creatures in Christ, we better not start thinking we are better then ANYONE.
If I were to sit around all day worrying if the Lord is going to hear & answer my prayers because I’m not sure if I’ve been good enough I’d be a nervous wreck and I wouldn’t pray as much as I could or should.
So when are we to pray? Only when sin is not in our heart or when we think we have been righteous enough for the Lord to answer? NO! PRAY WITHOUT CEASING! IN EVERYTHING GIVE THANKS!
Jason said this
“EndTimes doesn’t write scripture, he is a sinner like everyone else”
Do you think that all of the men God used through history weren’t sinners? I’ll give you just one of many examples – Moses was a sinner – God did not even let him enter the promise land yet he compiled the first 5 books of the bible and wrote a lot of it himself.
The only person who walked this earth who never committed a sin in Gods eyes was Jesus Christ our Lord, yet he was accused night and day by the Scribes and Pharisees and inevitably crucified by them.
As he was nailed to that tree along side 2 thieves and murders dying, one of the “evil sinners” simply believed on him whilst pinned to his cross, to whom Jesus said “Today, you will be together with me in paradise”
Luke 23:39-43: And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Why are we spending so much time debating, arguing, nitpicking etc. at others and fellow believers, instead of trying to be a good sample of Jesus and Love, preaching the gospel of truth by sample, trying to win souls to Christ? I am guilty of this myself, and I am truly sorry.
ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD! THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!
Romans does quite a good job at explaining.
Romans 5:12-21 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Our faith is counted as righteousness folks, all of the true saved born again believers have been officially pardoned from the wages of sin which is death by God himself through the blood of the Lamb. Anyone who tries to make you feel bad or condemns you for what they believe is sin or iniquity is voicing Satan himself, the accuser of the saints. (see Revelation chapter 12)
Lets stop picking the mote out of our brothers eye and start concentrating on the beam in our own!
Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
There is a clear difference between 1) a brother or sister in Christ lovingly and privately telling you they are genuinely concerned about something you are doing wrong and 2) a supposed “loving brother or sister in Christ” getting all self righteous and proud, accusing and condemning you, and even using scripture against you for what they see as sin and iniquity.
It is ALL Jesus Christ and he alone that can, has and will save us, NOT our own righteousness!
Romans 3:19-31: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Jesus made it very clear that you cannot save yourself. He said that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees of his time we would in no means enter the kingdom of heaven and even went as far as to tell them that the prostitutes and tax collectors would enter the kingdom of heaven before them.
Matthew 5:20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 21:31 Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you
Titus 3:5-7: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Peter, who even knew our Lord personally and was born again in spirit STILL denied Jesus THREE TIMES before the cock crowed! Do you doubt that he will have his place in heaven?
All of this of course is not to say, as some may interpret, “lets go ahead and sin under grace because, HEY, why not if we are forgiven already”? THIS IS NOT WHAT I AM SAYING – PLEASE DO NOT INTERPRET IT THIS WAY! – PLEASE READ THIS IN PRAYER, REFLECTING DEEPLY INTO YOURSELF & SEEKING THE TRUTH WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS YOUR GUIDE.
Keep fighting the good fight everyone! In prayer with endless faith and eternal love through the grace of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!
God bless you. He loves you.
Sam.
Sade Tennyson
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 7:38am:Dear brother Kent Hovind & sister Jo,
Be rest assured God is over all.
God is over all & He will reward all workers of iniquity according to the works of their hands except they repent.
As for both of you, I pray the cord of the love of God that binds you together as one will remain stronger & the joy of the Lor Jesus Christ will remain your strength.
Your labour is not in vain.
The goal & purpose of the enemy to close CSE ministry will not prosper in the mighty name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The word of God says in Ps 34:21 “Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate”.
It is well with you in Jesus name.
Sade Tennyson
Zeb
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 8:18am:Please allow me to vent, just a little. This is a bit loud for me, but it’s a heart breaker when bad things happen to good people.
If it were a Federal offense to roll through a stop sign, wonder what the sentence would have been… Does it really matter who it was that rolled through the stop sign, or any other offense? In the U.S. of A, it does in deed seem to matter.
In Kansas during May this year, a rapist was convicted on seventeen counts. During sentencing his 12 year sentence was dropped to 3 years probation. The judge remarked that 12 years would have been ‘excessive.’ That sends the wrong message to would-be rapists and violent criminals in general. All I can say is that it is a good thing that this guy wasn’t caught for repeatedly withdrawing too little money form his own account or not withholding taxes from anyone the IRS considered to be the person’s employees.
Some people can say “apples and oranges” if they want to, but the message this sends to me is don’t mess with the IRS. It would appear that it is alright to turn rapists loose on our streets, but if someone presumably keeps money that the IRS considers theirs, that person will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
I’m done now, please forgive my outburst.
With the Lord’s Love,
Zeb
lagomorph2
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 8:26am:Dear Praybird -
praybird
Said this at 6:13am:
pabramson,
Thank you for telling this, I didn’t know what happened, My question is, aren’t people innocent till proven guilty? This is a serious violation of American citizens. It is Indecent and Inhuman behavior.
In case you have missed the point of the court proceedings, the Hovinds WERE proven guilty. They were given due process of law, and their failure (refusal?) to testify in their own defense was their choice. By the way, at one point (in 1996, during bankruptcy hearings – it’s in the public record), Mr. Hovind was claiming not to be an American citizen.
djhouk
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 8:39am:To Three Crosses and Michael Deas,
I’ve taken it upon myself to correct misunderstandings on this blog as to the crimes that Kent and Jo committed.
Jo was convicted and sentenced for 44 charges of violation of the Bank Secrecy Act. This law was passed by Congress in 1970 and is primarily aimed at detecting money laundering.
It requires banks to report cash transactions greater than $10,000 to the Treasury department. It also made “structuring” such transactions to avoid the reporting requirement illegal.
Let’s be very clear. It is pefectly legal to deposit or withdraw any amount of cash to or from your account at any time. It’s just that amounts over $10,000 require the bank to file a Currency Transaction Report (CTR). If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
Kent and Jo, in an attempt to conceal the fact that they were not withholding payroll taxes, paid their employees in cash. This required large cash bank transactions on a regular basis to meet payroll. To prevent the bank from filing CTRs (which might alert the government to their activity), they withdrew amounts just under $10,000 very frequently; often daily, occasionally multiple times the same day. The jury found both of them guilty of structuring cash transactions to avoid the bank’s reporting requirements. Kent was also convicted of other charges; Jo was only convicted of structuring.
AIM
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 9:11am:What is the hold up with the appeals? As General Patton often said, maybe it’s time to kick some butts. Also, are competent lawyers working on this case?
childrenrtreasures
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 9:18am:Continuing to pray for each of you.
We Have An Anchor
Will your anchor hold in the storms of life, when the clouds unfold their wings of strife? When the strong tides lift, and the cables strain, will your anchor drift, or firm remain?
We have an anchor that keeps the soul steadfast and sure while the billows roll, fastened to the Rock which cannot move, grounded firm and deep in the Saviour’s love.
It is safely moored, ’twill the storm withstand for tis well secured by the Saviour’s hand; though the tempest rage and the wild winds blow, not an angry wave shall our bark o’erflow.
We have an anchor that keeps the soul steadfast and sure while the billows roll, fastened to the Rock which cannot move, grounded firm and deep in the Saviour’s love.
When our eyes behold through the gathering night the city of gold, our harbor bright, we shall anchor fast by the heavenly shore, with the storms all past forevermore.
We have an anchor that keeps the soul steadfast and sure while the billows roll, fastened to the Rock which cannot move, grounded firm and deep in the Saviour’s love.
jesusistruth
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 10:10am:I have known Kent for several years, he spoke at my church a couple of times. I got to know him through this process and going out to meals with him, etc. I have been interested in this whole trial, am saddened by it, and have been praying for Kent and especially his wife who we prayed for continually when she had a lower back injury.
WHAT I ADMIRE ABOUT KENT
His zeal for the gospel – he is not ashamed of the gospel.
His dedication to his beliefs – his perseverance through difficult times.
His ability to relate to kids – he wants to help them come to know the truth
WHAT I DON’T ADMIRE ABOUT KENT
How he makes fun of and labels people who don’t agree with him.
His unscholarly belief that the King James Bible is the most reliable.
His strange beliefs about supplements, conspiracies and tax laws.
WHAT I THINK GOD WOULD TELL KENT IN A CONVERSATION
I Corinthians 8:1-2 — what knowledge does, what love does, intellectual pride
Ephesians 4:32 – kindness, compassion, forgiveness
Romans 13:1 – how to treat government laws
Proverbs 28:13 – key for success in ministry
Sisterfriend
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 10:29am:I wish I could say something that would make things different. I wish I could even complain to God for allowing this. But I must instead, Praise and Give Thanks in All things. I am sorrowful for both Kent and for Jo. I am sorrowful for the rest of the Hovind family as well as the staff of CSE. You are all in my prayers. I will trust the outcome to the One who created all of us, and Who is able to complete the work He has started in all of us. He does know what He is doing, and things are not as they appear to our fleshly eyes and understanding. God makes no mistakes.
You are each in our prayers.
“Let the words of my mouth, and the meditations of my heart, be acceptable in Thy sight, O Lord, my Strength and my Redeemer.” Psalms 19:14
“In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid of what man can do unto me.” Psalms 54:11
“Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness or peril, or sward?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angles, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the Love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord!” Romans 8:33-39
Sisterfriend
Michael Deas
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 10:56am:DJ, they committed no crimes. Tax code is not law. Your statement “Occasionally multiple times the same day” is not true. You can withdraw $9,900 every day if you so desire. That is not a crime. Changing the wording of the law to sway the jury is.
God bless you Jo and Kent, you are in my prayers often.
Three Crosses
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 11:43am:Hi I think I should point some things out starting with. We are all sinners, but to address a couple of statements!
First to: djhouk you said “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.”
I ask that when quoting Hitler, Stalin, Lennin or Polpot, you give them credit!!!!!
Second you said “Kent and Jo, in an attempt to conceal the fact that they were not withholding payroll taxes, paid their employees in cash. This required large cash bank transactions on a regular basis to meet payroll. To prevent the bank from filing CTRs (which might alert the government to their activity), they withdrew amounts just under $10,000 very frequently; often daily, occasionally multiple times the same day. The jury found both of them guilty of structuring cash transactions to avoid the bank’s reporting requirements. Kent was also convicted of other charges; Jo was only convicted of structuring.”
I’ve seen Kent stand up in front of thousands upon thousands of people and give his stand on taxes, he even had them recorded and distributed freely!!! I strongly urge you to put your faith where it has been earned and not the greed based legal system of this country or the corrupt irs.
//////////////////////////////////////////////
To: jesusistruth
You said: “His unscholarly belief that the King James Bible is the most reliable.” and “His strange beliefs about supplements, conspiracies and tax laws.”
I assume from your first quote you are either catholic or uneducated on Bible translations. I will be happy to discuss either. Here is a quick summary. The majority of Bibles are taken from two places “the majority of texts” (The roman catholic bible) they destroyed anyone spreading any other form of the Bible! Killing untold millions of my brothers in Christ! Second the “textus recepticus” (the Bible the King James Bible was translated to english from) If you would like to research it a good start would be “The Trail of Blood” available free online.
Your second statement strange beliefs I would assume that you are one of the sixty percent of Americans that believes 9/11 was not a conspiracy. Well surprise, surprise! The “official story” is Osama Bin Laden CONSPIRED with his cronies to come over here and fly planes into the World Trade Center! A conspiracy. If you think the irs or the legal system are infallible you might be a “law worshipper”. Sorry about the slap I mean it only to awaken you from your slumber.
God bless america, God save us all!
Ekkman
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 12:14pm:Jul
2jesusistruth
Said this at 10:10am:
——————————————————————————–
I have known Kent for several years, he spoke at my church a couple of times. I got to know him through this process and going out to meals with him, etc. I have been interested in this whole trial, am saddened by it, and have been praying for Kent and especially his wife who we prayed for continually when she had a lower back injury.
WHAT I ADMIRE ABOUT KENT
His zeal for the gospel – he is not ashamed of the gospel.
His dedication to his beliefs – his perseverance through difficult times.
His ability to relate to kids – he wants to help them come to know the truth
WHAT I DON’T ADMIRE ABOUT KENT
How he makes fun of and labels people who don’t agree with him.
His unscholarly belief that the King James Bible is the most reliable.
His strange beliefs about supplements, conspiracies and tax laws.
WHAT I THINK GOD WOULD TELL KENT IN A CONVERSATION
I Corinthians 8:1-2 — what knowledge does, what love does, intellectual pride
Ephesians 4:32 – kindness, compassion, forgiveness
Romans 13:1 – how to treat government laws
Proverbs 28:13 – key for success in ministry
jesusistruth
I just wanted to make a few comments and ask a couple of questions. Have you studied the tax laws or the KJV issue? Have you listened to his talks on both of those issues? You can on the web, anytime that yo want to. How much have you read on these blogs? I don’t think we should be going over and over and over the same issues that already have been talked about. I could take a good guess and say that Kent knows those verses that you have used above and I would think that he applies them to life. Remember, I said I would think that he does. I said I think that he does since neither one of us knows completely, at least not yet.
We can deal with key to success in the ministy later since that will be a big one. First we need to define success in God’s eyes and in men’s eyes. Based on the verse you used for key to success, are you saying that Kent sinned in seeking to obey the Constitution instead of a corrupt government? PLease do a little catching up by reading the past blogs before condemning a man on the tax issue and I would love to talk to you indepth on the KJV issue if you would like.
Ekkman
Ekkman
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 12:54pm:Jul
2samuel
Said this at 6:06am:
——————————————————————————–
Hi all.
First of all I would like to say that I am in no way trying to point the finger at anyone here, and I do not think I am better than anyone or that I am righteous. I am honestly a worthless sinner and without the Lord Jesus Christ in my life I would be totally lost.
This is a revision & re-post of an earlier post, as I have gone over it and I have come across as a bit self righteous myself. I am sorry to all concerned.
Ekkman said this:
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Psa 66:18)
This shows us that we cannot play with deliberate sin and think the Lord will listen to our prayers. He is a holy and pure God and will not play with sin.
Samuel,
You quoted me ‘out of context’ by what I see. (Please read past blogs.) I was saying to people that we need to be walking in the Spirit if we expect the Lord to hear our prayers. I was not saying that Kent sinned because he didn’t pay income taxes. They are illegal, the government are the ones who are “sinning”, so to speak. Kent is going by the Constitution not the sick laws that we have today, the income tax is based on 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto, the second plank says,
“2 A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.”
Ekkman
Ekkman
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 4:26pm:Jul
2djhouk
Said this at 8:39am:
——————————————————————————–
To Three Crosses and Michael Deas,
I’ve taken it upon myself to correct misunderstandings on this blog as to the crimes that Kent and Jo committed.
Jo was convicted and sentenced for 44 charges of violation of the Bank Secrecy Act. This law was passed by Congress in 1970 and is primarily aimed at detecting money laundering.
It requires banks to report cash transactions greater than $10,000 to the Treasury department. It also made “structuring” such transactions to avoid the reporting requirement illegal.
Let’s be very clear. It is pefectly legal to deposit or withdraw any amount of cash to or from your account at any time. It’s just that amounts over $10,000 require the bank to file a Currency Transaction Report (CTR). If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
Kent and Jo, in an attempt to conceal the fact that they were not withholding payroll taxes, paid their employees in cash. This required large cash bank transactions on a regular basis to meet payroll. To prevent the bank from filing CTRs (which might alert the government to their activity), they withdrew amounts just under $10,000 very frequently; often daily, occasionally multiple times the same day. The jury found both of them guilty of structuring cash transactions to avoid the bank’s reporting requirements. Kent was also convicted of other charges; Jo was only convicted of structuring.
djhouk
As I see it… There are many things that a corrupt government will do to you whether you try to do honest things based on the Constitution in more private ways or openly. They will try to get you in one way or another “legally” based on the many so-caled laws, which in reality turns out to be illegal.
I think the top man running for President will help you see this clearer by speaking out against a corrupt government. Read his article and hear many of his talks, debates on YouTube and/or other places.
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr011806.htm
Ekkman
EndTimes
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 4:31pm:Jul 2 jesusistruth
Said this at 10:10am:
“WHAT I DON’T ADMIRE ABOUT KENT
How he makes fun of and labels people who don’t agree with him.
His unscholarly belief that the King James Bible is the most reliable.
His strange beliefs about supplements, conspiracies and tax laws.”
Dear jesusistruth,
I ask of you a simple question on the prophetic fulfillment of Revelation 2:16 in “red” letters signifying that Jesus Himself spoke these words. When was or when will Revelation 2:16 be fulfilled? You speak of “unscholarly” belief in the KJV and I retort to you a simple statement from the man that you believe speaks the truth. I ask of you, do you really believe the truth spoken by Jesus in Revelation 2:16? If so, then, speak to us of the true meaning of this verse prophetically.
Secondly, you might want to read Psalm 2 to learn about “strange conspiracies” and then also tell me how the Apotheosis of Washington is a direct fulfillment of those very verses. By the way, what is the symbolic significance of George Washington with his feet upon the rainbow? (Hint, look in the Bible for what the rainbow symbolizes.)
http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/rotunda/apotheosis/Overview.cfm
So far, it may be possible that you are unintentionally ridiculing the Scriptures with your criticisms of Kent Hovind. Just for your consideration.
In kindness,
EndTimes
Ekkman
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 4:53pm:Jul
2samuel
Said this at 6:06am:
“…Why are we spending so much time debating, arguing, nitpicking etc. at others and fellow believers, instead of trying to be a good sample of Jesus and Love, preaching the gospel of truth by sample, trying to win souls to Christ? I am guilty of this myself, and I am truly sorry.”
Samuel,
I wanted to deal with the above comment a little. If you read the word, you will find plenty of debating, arguing and the like all through it. True believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are and will be at odds with the world. This place is not our home, we are passing through. We have a better kingdom awaiting us but we are to stand for truth while we are here. As said before, preaching the gospel causes division. The Lord Jesus Christ caused division most places he went. He told us that we are either with him or against him. There is no middle ground. Paul debated, argued with many believers and non believers. Truth sets us free. We must speak, stand for truth at all costs. Are you willing to debate and argue with others if you have truth and you know it can set them free? Sometimes standing for truth isn’t easy. It will cost us something.
Paul put it this way. “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Gal 4:16 Be willing to become an enemy to others by walking in truth, don’t build a plastic relationship by living in lies, deceit, confusion, and the like. I read a sign out here that says, “Preach the gospel always! If necessary use words.” I started thinking, ‘Are they serious?” You can’t preach the gospel without words. I see what they were trying to say but it wasn’t said correctly and that was sad. Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.
Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.
Ekkman
EndTimes
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 4:55pm:Jun 30 Jason
Said this at 8:10pm:
“I am still not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet about EndTimes, I am commanded to love both him & also you as brothers within the body of Christ. Please don’t make it difficult.
I can’t find the scripture off hand, but it says in Proverbs, ( to the effect of ) getting involved in an argument between two others is like picking a dog up by its ears… I guess the implication is you get bitten. I hope this doesn’t happen to me.
Reading EndTimes posts upon this blog, which are many, There has been occasions where I have thought, “That could have been said better, or does he mean this or that?” Upon EndTimes request I elaborated on such an issue 19th June, and EndTimes offered his agreement to the issue I saw. I am left with no other nit to pick.”
My dear Jason,
Thank you for your faithfulness to the Scriptures. I have no contentions with you as I also have no contentions with A-G although it appears that he does with me. I will note one thing and not digress any further. Your initial disagreement with me was actually not a disagreement with any statement by me on Romans 13. Please review those posts. It was djhouk that had made those references and you mistakenly thought they were my remarks. Small mistake that I addressed with you and I am perfectly satisfied that there is nothing for either of us to contend and we should instead devote our time and energy to the defense of an innocent woman named Jo Hovind. I am sorry, but even the very tapes that the judge used against Dr. Hovind to increase his sentence spoke of the disagreement the Jo Hovind had with their entire situation. Please remember that she simply wanted to worship the Lord and be a grandmother. To believe that she deliberately conspired against the IRS is ludicrous and completely repudiated by stating to her husband, “maybe we got bad advice.” It is my hope and prayer that the ridiculous sentences for both of them will either be reduced or overturned on appeal.
Forgive me if I am sharp and contentious at times, it comes in part from the type of medical training we endured with open scrutiny before our peers of all of our actions with quite sharp retorts often after being awake for over 24 hours with 12 hours more to work. I would never wish to suffer through that process again and it did leave me with a sharp tongue at times. Learning to speak with grace is not an easy accomplishment for me, but it is something that I am trying to do through the power of the Lord. Forgive me for the times that I have not done so.
May the Lord bless you in your study of the Word of God,
May God bless,
EndTimes
Jason
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 5:26pm:samuel
Said this at 6:06am: July 2nd
Jason said this
“EndTimes doesn’t write scripture, he is a sinner like everyone else”
Do you think that all of the men God used through history weren’t sinners? I’ll give you just one of many examples – Moses was a sinner – God did not even let him enter the promise land yet he compiled the first 5 books of the bible and wrote a lot of it himself.
______________________
Please forgive me, I see your point, what I wrote wasn’t very well worded.
I believe I was trying to make a distinction between EndTimes himself who is fallible in his writing (like everyone else), and scripture (The Word of God) which I believe is infallible.
I would suggest that God is fully able to speak through who ever He wishes at what ever particular moment He wants to convey His message, He is after all a living God. I wouldn’t be surprised when all things are revealed at the end of time that God has indeed spoken directly through some of EndTimes’s writings. Not only EndTimes but many others too.
Please forgive me.
With Much Love and appreciation
Jason x
PS. Just to note, since you correctly pointed out the fallibility of my writing, you have sort of reinforced my point.
So again I am indeed very grateful.
Ekkman
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 5:35pm:29Galatians110vt
Said this at 10:33pm:
——————————————————————————–
Wow the judge must like her alot. To get away with just 366 days is a miracle. I hope the hovinds learn from this and press on. As paul once said in Romans, “Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”
Galatians110vt,
It is funny how we can see the same thing and see it totally different. I thought he was showing how much he hated her, I guessed because she was a believer but also his hatred for Constitutional law which Kent and Jo stood for. If you keep reading these posts, then read Paul’s writings in the newest one, “Thanking You for Your Prayers”. Paul just posted it. Read his comments to see what she should have gotten if the judge even obeyed their so-called laws, so to speak.
Regarding the authorities are God’s servants, I have a hard problem with that, our government does many things that are anti-God such as killing the unborn- those whom God is forming in the womb, legalizing sodomy- perverted sex, making ‘evolution’ the “state” religion, approving many unconstitutional laws such as the income tax law, declaring unconstitutional wars, etc.
Ekkman
EndTimes
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 6:25pm:Jun 28 Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this at 2:05am:
“EndTimes [jun27 4.19]
quote: the “tax protestor” history of Dr. Hovind which cannot be disputed
unquote:
I still disagree with you!!! look the dialogue between the two of you. Look at what djhouk said: “Kent is a notorious tax protester, suing and harassing IRS agents” and that which you have agreed to by way of the language you employed and continue to employ.”
Oh dear, it appears that the “bully” named Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974 will not go away. Let it be known for the record that I have ignored multiple inflammatory remarks against me for several weeks that unfortunately I can no longer ignore. Let it also be known for the record that this will not be profitable for anyone, most especially Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974. Nevertheless, I have tried my best to avoid an open confrontation, yet here it is in front of me anyway.
My comments to djhouk were quite simple in only confirming the public IRS /Hovind records which is that which cannot be disputed. They are what they are. End of comment. That is all that I stated or implied period.
To imply that I implied or stated anything further is actually a libelous statement on Australian: Phillip-George’s (c)1974 account. If Phillip-George cannot understand the simple statement that I made, I cannot help him.
Forgive me for even responding to such silly accusations, but Phillip-George would not let it be any other way.
EndTimes
EndTimes
Said this on July 2nd, 2007 at 6:31pm:Jun 29 Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this at 8:15pm:
“So all of you voters out there, you who believe that you have the right to pass laws (laws are things which ‘authorize’ enforcement by the police), just remember that, at the very least, you are the equivalent to those in that bar room who were cheering on the rapists. You may not have the guts to just go out there and take what you want by force, but you can ‘get your rocks off’ by cheering on those brutal enough to violate others with your support.” Column by NonEntity.”
Dear Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974,
I would ask you to stop referencing blatant sexual comments on this blog. You previously had an entire post on masturbation. Your comments are not appropriate for this blog.
If “darling”’s surname is Heldmyer or Powe and she (or he?) are aware of efforts of appeal being undertaken I would have thought that their presence on this blog could be construed as attempts to pervert the course of justice. I would have thought it was incumbent upon the web master to have the matter investigated by the department of justice.
Dear Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974,
Are you on drugs? You want Paul Abramson to send out the department of Justice?? I hope that you come down to earth again soon.
Silence is acquiescence by default. Jesus said, “Whoever is not against us is for us”. This principle is ubiquitous in law.
The criminal Justice system uses this same biblical principle to assert imprimatur over its own actions – repeatedly, daily, universally!
Are your hands clean? If they are not, you should be deeply disturbed. May Jesus strike fast, cleanly and deeply. Even to the very divisions the Holy Spirit promises
Jun 30 Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this at 7:41pm:
ps. I was just looking over St Malachy O’Morgair’s [1094-1148] visions and I am quietly confident that what ever status quo settles upon all these bloodied noses that there will be a much greater interruption soon to to come, to be laid squarely upon all of the plans of mere mortal men. And every knee shall bend.
Dear Australian: Phillip-George (c)1974
Are you a Catholic putting your trust in false visions and the authority of the bishop’s imprimatur?
Endtimes
eecreationist
Said this on July 3rd, 2007 at 6:41am:I agree. The conspiricy theories (911, Chem Trails, etc.), the vaccinations and worst of all and the most fatal, the tax laws did get up my nose a little. I am not quite in the KJV only camp myself. Though I do think he (along with many others) makes a good point. My problem is it is difficult to read. I know people have talked about the theory about how many words it has with x number of consonants(I forget the specifics) which therefore means that it is easier to read. But I have tried several times and still struggle with even Ray Comfort’s Easy Reading “Comfort”able version. I do go to the KJV when I am doing more serious studying or looking up a verse that I am particularly interested in. One other thing that I did not particularly like was the argument about the star distance. Which was that we can’t measure the distance. Whether we can measure the distance accurately or not is irrelevant because you just can’t fit that many stars inside 6000 light years (I did the math once and it works out to about 1 star every cubic mile or so). And the closest star (besides the sun) is 4 light years away (Alpha Centauri). So Adam would not have seen any stars for the first 4-10 years of his life. And it is obvious from scripture that he saw a sky full of stars (Gen 1:17). So I do not have a problem with the fact that God can both make a galaxy full of stars out of nothing (we can’t even make 1 molecule out of nothing) and manage to arrange it so that we can see it all…first day (well, fourth day to be precise).
But I do still miss listening to his radio show. I still listen to the seminars while I am driving and I still watch his debates. After seeing them more than 5 times each, I still find them entertaining and motivational. I pray as often as I can for his release so I can listen to his show and call in and email questions again.
Does anyone have an update on Mrs. Hovind? The sentencing was last Friday, so someone should know by now.
Three Crosses
Said this on July 3rd, 2007 at 11:27am:Dear Ekkman, Endtimes, Paul and the many other brothers in Christ that post here. Even though we occasionally argue about which side, we part our hair on. It would be nice to get together and have coffee and Bible study. I’ve learned alot from posting and reading here. I think the only way we’ll get to meet on this earth, is if we’re lined up on the wall together. I can’t believe that Mrs. Hovind was sent to prison as an alleged tax protester(what first ammendment???). Where is baliset’s commemt on this? That would be vivid paranoia that lands you in prison. Our posts here show that we believe and know the truth. Very soon if not already, prisons and “showers” are being built just for us. With love your brother in Christ
P.S. to baliset when you plagarize me on your website please give me credit!!
EndTimes
Said this on July 3rd, 2007 at 11:50am:Jul 3 eecreationist
Said this at 6:41am:
1) “I agree. The conspiricy theories (911, Chem Trails, etc.), the vaccinations and worst of all and the most fatal, the tax laws did get up my nose a little.”
Please read Psalm 2 and then go to the Apotheosis of Washington. Yes, conspiracy theories are not theories when the Bible prophecies speak of them 3 thousand years before they occur, they are simply fact. I wouldn’t place your trust in your current rulers. See Psalm 118:8-9.
2) “I am not quite in the KJV only camp myself. Though I do think he (along with many others) makes a good point. My problem is it is difficult to read. I know people have talked about the theory about how many words it has with x number of consonants(I forget the specifics) which therefore means that it is easier to read. But I have tried several times and still struggle with even Ray Comfort’s Easy Reading “Comfort”able version. I do go to the KJV when I am doing more serious studying or looking up a verse that I am particularly interested in.”
Again, you need to have an understanding of Revelation 2:16 as well as Revelation 3:7-13 which speak of the work done by King James. (Hint, look up the political findings of King James over the “gunpowder plot.”) Pray over it and read it from the KJV and compare Scripture with Scripture and then look into the history of the church over the last 2000 from a good source. The Trail of Blood by J.M. Carroll is an excellent resource.
http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm
If you listen to the so called Bible prophecy experts, you will never see the simple truths of Revelation. Instead, the Bible interprets itself. (Isaiah 28:9-13, II Peter 1:20-21, II Corinthians 13:1, I Thessalonians 5:21, I John 2: 27) All wisdom and knowledge comes from the Father above. (James 1:17) All understanding is through the Spirit. (I Corinthians 2: 6-16) So, ask the Lord Himself who will give you the understanding of His Holy Word if you will only ask Him. (James1:5-8). So as in all things of the Bible, it is a matter of faith in believing that His Word is the TRUE, LITERAL WORD OF GOD. If you come before Him doubting that His Word is the truth, He will not teach you ANYTHING WHATSOEVER!!!
3) “One other thing that I did not particularly like was the argument about the star distance. Which was that we can’t measure the distance. Whether we can measure the distance accurately or not is irrelevant because you just can’t fit that many stars inside 6000 light years (I did the math once and it works out to about 1 star every cubic mile or so). And the closest star (besides the sun) is 4 light years away (Alpha Centauri). So Adam would not have seen any stars for the first 4-10 years of his life. And it is obvious from scripture that he saw a sky full of stars (Gen 1:17). So I do not have a problem with the fact that God can both make a galaxy full of stars out of nothing (we can’t even make 1 molecule out of nothing) and manage to arrange it so that we can see it all…first day (well, fourth day to be precise).”
II Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Dear eecreationist, the Bible states quite clearly that the stars and the sun and the moon and Adam and Eve had the “appearance of age” from the beginning. Why do you buy into the evolutionist paradox that God is somehow lying to us because the stars were made with the appearance of age? This is simply not true. God proved to Adam that He was the Creator by creating all of the animals in the Garden of Eden for Adam to name. Thus, there was no need to know the “age” of the universe for Adam since the evolution/creation debate was preposterous for Adam to contemplate. He observed in Genesis chapter 2 the creative power of God on the sixth day. Adam, came fully equipped and didn’t grow into the garden of Eden. The trees were fully formed.
We likewise see the same creative power in Jesus with the feeding of the 5000 with fully “grown” fish. Likewise, the wine had the appearance of age even though he just created it from water at the wedding in Cana of Galilee. I don’t ever bite into theological doctrines without proving them first, but the so called argument of the “appearance of age” has much scriptural support. I hope that this is helpful.
In kindness,
EndTimes
jesusistruth
Said this on July 4th, 2007 at 1:01am:Thanks to all who replied to my post. Looks like I hit a nerve …
I am not saying that the KJV is a bad translation. I am saying that it is unscholarly to say that it is the only reliable translation. Here’s something to think about …
1. Foremost, we feel that the KJV is an EXCELLENT translation, but not the ONLY excellent translation.
2. In over 90 percent of the New Testament, readings are identical word-for-word, regardless of the family. Of the remaining ten percent, MOST of the differences between the texts are fairly irrelevant, such as calling the Lord “Christ Jesus” instead of “Jesus Christ,” or putting the word “the” before a noun. Less than two percent would significantly alter the meaning of a passage, and NONE of them would contradict or alter any of the basic points of Christian doctrine. What we have, then, is a dispute concerning less than one-half of one percent of the Bible. The other 99.5% we all agree on!
3. Because there are over 14,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament we can absolutely be confident of its accuracy. With this large number of manuscripts, comparing manuscripts easily reveals any place where a scribe has made an error or where there is a variation. There are approximately 150,000 variations in the manuscripts we have today. However, these variations represent only 10,000 places in the New Testament (if the same word was misspelled in 3,000 manuscripts, that is counted as 3,000 variations.) Of these 10,000 places, all but 400 are questions of spelling in accord with accepted usage, grammatical construction, or order of words. Of the remaining variations, only 50 are of significance (such as two manuscripts leaving out Acts 2:37). But of these 50, not one alters even one article of faith which cannot be abundantly sustained by other undoubted passages. There are some manuscripts that date as early as 130 AD, very close to the completion of the New Testament. These manuscripts are nearly identical to those dating 900 years later, thus verifying the accuracy of the scribes.
4. These advocates reject all others Bible’s that post-date the KJV.
5. They believe that the KJV is not only inspired in the original language, but also in the translation process.
6. This claim of an inspired translation process is not made for any other Bible translation.
7. Only a very tiny fraction of people who use the KJV actually believe that the translation process was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
8. We feel that the KJV is to be classed as one of several major standards of Bible translations including, NASB, RSV, NKJV, ASV, NIV. All these translations are equal in quality and all should be used for Bible study.
9. The TR itself was based on a very few, late scripts, not one of which contained the entire Greek New Testament and none earlier than the 12th century. In the matter of the book of Revelation, a missing page was translated from the Latin Vulgate BACK to the Greek. Acts 9:6 although found in the Latin Vulgate, and thus the TR is found in no Greek manuscript at all. In light of its obvious shortcomings, a greater number of older and more complete manuscripts were used in the translation of subsequent versions (post-1881)} (The KJV Debate: A Plea for Realism, D.A. Carson)
And some questions to think about …
# Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769.
# What Bible would these KJV worshippers recommend since before 1611 there was no Bible.
# Do they realize that the apostle Paul did not use the KJV.
# Why do KJV only advocates reject the apocrypha, since the original 1611 version contained the apocrypha?
# If God always gives the world his word in one language (as KJV advocates say of English), then the KJV is certainly not that language, for God chose Koine GREEK not ENGLISH to reveal his New Covenant!
# If God gave us the KJV as an inspired translation, why would God not repeat the process again in modern language in each language?
# If God supervised the translation process so that the KJV is 100% error free, why did God not extend this supervision to the printers?
# Why did the KJV translators use marginal note showing alternate translation possibilities? If the English of the KJV is inspired of God, there would be no alternates!
# If the KJV translators were inspired of God in their work, why did they not know it?
# Why were all the marginal notes and alternate readings removed from modern editions of the KJV, along with the Apocrypha, the opening Dedication to James I, and a lengthy introduction from “The Translators to the Reader.”?
it is my opinion that is it not wise to label the KJV as the only reliable translation. Also, I feel it is not wise to make fun of and call people names who do not agree with you. Doing so hurts the very gospel that you are trying to share with them. In my opinion, Kent disrespects people in the way he presents his seminar. Again, just my opinion, but I believe this is not a wise or godly approach in sharing God’s precious gospel with those who are lost.
joshtriangle
Said this on July 4th, 2007 at 6:55am:This is sad news about Mrs. Hovind. It must be worse pain for Kent than anything else he’s experienced thus far in any jail cell…?
I suppose somewhere along the line some big IRS tax honcho got the “OK” to “shake a finger” at the Hovinds “as an example to others”….
An example of what I’m not sure?
While I am praying for Kent and Jo, I must also point out to all viewing these notes – take a lesson from this…
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ”
(Galatians 5:22-23)
Be bold when proclaiming the Gospel to others, but remain diligent that the fruit you are producing is as outlined above. This world can often get under our skin, but we can’t let it get the best of us, only to be shown an example… of course God is sovereign and will use you regardless – if you are truly walking with the Lord!!!!!!!!
Peace.
J
samuel
Said this on July 4th, 2007 at 9:58am:Hi Ekkman,
I apologise if I have quoted you out of context but I don’t think you have totally understood me; I will try to explain what I mean.
Samuel,
You quoted me ‘out of context’ by what I see. (Please read past blogs.) I was saying to people that we need to be walking in the Spirit if we expect the Lord to hear our prayers.
Yes we do need to be walking with the Lord and be close to him for many reasons, not just for prayer, but I guess my point is, some people are closer to the Lord then others and our relationship with him is largely based on how much time we spend with him in the spirit. The verse you quoted from the Psalms just looked a bit inappropriate for the prayer request blog and perhaps I took it the wrong way, I’m sorry if this is the case.
All I was saying is we should pray without ceasing, regardless of how close we are or think we are to the Lord. How else do you make a stronger connection with him? Prayer, praise and reading his word with a hungry heart seeking the truth! Always pray everyone, regardless how near or far you are from the Lord, he hears and he answers! Pray that he draws you nearer!
Samuel,
I wanted to deal with the above comment a little. If you read the word, you will find plenty of debating, arguing and the like all through it. True believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are and will be at odds with the world. This place is not our home, we are passing through. We have a better kingdom awaiting us but we are to stand for truth while we are here. As said before, preaching the gospel causes division. The Lord Jesus Christ caused division most places he went. He told us that we are either with him or against him. There is no middle ground. Paul debated, argued with many believers and non believers. Truth sets us free. We must speak, stand for truth at all costs. Are you willing to debate and argue with others if you have truth and you know it can set them free? Sometimes standing for truth isn’t easy. It will cost us something.
Paul put it this way. “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Gal 4:16 Be willing to become an enemy to others by walking in truth, don’t build a plastic relationship by living in lies, deceit, confusion, and the like. I read a sign out here that says, “Preach the gospel always! If necessary use words.” I started thinking, ‘Are they serious?” You can’t preach the gospel without words. I see what they were trying to say but it wasn’t said correctly and that was sad. Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.
Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.
Now you have taken me out of context: P I didn’t mean let’s preach the gospel with smiles, fluffy bunnies and love hearts only. Or do it at a distance without speaking. Or don’t speak the truth as to not offend anyone. This is NOT what I mean.
You can lead a horse to water, but if it isn’t thirsty, it won’t drink. The Lord stands at the door and knocks; he doesn’t use a battering ram. He speaks in a soft loving voice and if any man hears it, he will come in.
You cannot “prove” God exists empirically, or that creation occurred empirically. ALL of the belief systems in this world, regardless of how feasible they are have to be trusted with a certain amount of FAITH. I was more directing my comments to people who continually entertain non-believers and others who frequently visit this blog (whom I suspect do, simply to argue with, annoy, and bad mouth believers).
It’s like an I’M RIGHT YOURE WRONG – LOOK AT THE PROOF situation on both sides and this is not how you preach the gospel in my opinion. The gospel should be preached in word, deed and truth. Self righteousness is the number 1 turn off for ANYONE being witnessed to.
Ekkman said this”
“Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.”
If your life lined up with the law and truth of God exactly you would be God himself, ALL have sinned saved or unsaved, ALL will sin saved or not saved. Sin entered the world through one mans sin and death through sin. We are still bound to this world but we do not have to be conformed, we renew our mind and spirits with the Word of God. It just looks a little bit like you are saying, unless your life conforms exactly to the how the Bible says we should live our life then don’t witness, if that was true, NO ONE should witness as NO ONE is perfect.
It just looks as though grace, forgiveness and mercy is being preached on one hand and law, condemnation and justice on the other. Who did Jesus die for again? ALL? Not just the “good”? Did he come to get the righteous into heaven? No! the sinners to repentance!
Again, I am NOT insinuating sinning under grace, we should do our best to live up to Jesus Christ’s example and try to be the best we can with compassion, understanding, mercy, hope and love. But not condemn or let ourselves be put down for besetting sins or mistakes we make along the walk of life with the Lord. He still forgives and loves us. We are his Children now and he deals with us in the ways he sees fit.
You really don’t think that because you are born again you are now perfect do you? Well if you do you are mistaken.
Speaking for myself, there are many mistakes I make along the road of life, many things I am learning and understanding and still will be until I meet the Lord in the next life. I am, although now saved through the grace of God, a worthless sinner, STILL counting on our Lord Jesus Christ to save me. Only he can, and only he will.
Dear Jason, I’m sorry if I came across as nitpicking and yes you are right mans words are fallible, but remember mans words are also in the bible and ALL men are fallible. Only Jesus was not. This is not meant to say that the Bible is fallible. But as Kent Hovind says in one of his seminars, BIBLE = Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. We only see through a glass darkly at present and all will be revealed in the hereafter.
I have to run now as its getting late.
God bless and keep you all! Sorry if I have rambled a bit, annoyed or offended anyone with my posts but this is how I feel.
Sam.
Three Crosses
Said this on July 5th, 2007 at 11:21am:In reply to: jesusistruth
Please do a search for “The trail of blood” it is good read for any brother in Christ. Majority is not always right, even so this is one of the founding points for many religions including the Muslims (mob rules, democracy)and the Roman Catholic church (the catechism opens with: majority is not always right, but how can a billion people be wrong). Bible translations don’t have to be very far off to change the entire meaning. For instance: “I try to love all my brothers in Christ no matter how they part their hair” I change it to “I try not to love all my brothers in Christ no matter how they part their hair” I changed about 6% of the comment but 100% of the meaning and the entire meaning of anything that follows.
With love Three Crosses
Ekkman
Said this on July 6th, 2007 at 12:20am:4jesusistruth
Said this at 1:01am:
———————————————————————– ———
Thanks to all who replied to my post. Looks like I hit a nerve …
More than likely, it was God’s nerve that you hit. I will try to explain that as I go on and deal with some of the things in this blog without getting wordy. So for now I will give short concise answers.
I am not saying that the KJV is a bad translation. I am saying that it is unscholarly to say that it is the only reliable translation. Here’s something to think about …
I would say the opposite. To say that all bibles or most of them or even a few of them are all the word of God even though they contradict each other in thousands of places would be very unscholarly. I have read most of the comments below on other web sites which you probably cut off and pasted here. That is fine if you have really studied the issue and came up with the same beliefs.
I would like to ask you a question. Since Jesus Christ is called the Word of God made flesh and just about everything that is applied to the word of God called scripture is applied to the God in flesh.
1. Foremost, we feel that the KJV is an EXCELLENT translation, but not the ONLY excellent translation.
I have read that comment not only on many web sites but in reality when I get to talking to them via e-mail, I see that they really hate the KJV and if you would like, I could probably e-mail you hundreds of debates that I have gotten into regarding different sites.
2. In over 90 percent of the New Testament, readings are identical word-for-word, regardless of the family. Of the remaining ten percent, MOST of the differences between the texts are fairly irrelevant, such as calling the Lord “Christ Jesus” instead of “Jesus Christ,” or putting the word “the” before a noun. Less than two percent would significantly alter the meaning of a passage, and NONE of them would contradict or alter any of the basic points of Christian doctrine. What we have, then, is a dispute concerning less than one-half of one percent of the Bible. The other 99.5% we all agree on!
Did you know that a 10% are thousands of differences and those differences are really based on two of the most corrupt manuscripts that we have, the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, Aleph and B. They are old but they are also corrupt to the hilt, so to speak. They contradict in many ways. The links below are just a few, a very few of the contradictions from a small study that I put together without going very deep into the differences.
http://ekkcom.net/alexcult.htm by Peter Ruckman
http://ekkcom.net/one-prct.htm by G.A. Riplinger
http://ekkcom.net/kjvfight.htm by Gary Freeman
These next three were written my me.
http://ekkcom.net/niv-kjv.htm
http://ekkcom.net/niv-kjv.htm
http://ekkcom.net/niv-word.htm
This one is one of my favorites. Really think about this one as you are reading it. It is packed with super important information.
http://ekkcom.net/answer.htm
3. Because there are over 14,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament we can absolutely be confident of its accuracy. With this large number of manuscripts, comparing manuscripts easily reveals any place where a scribe has made an error or where there is a variation. There are approximately 150,000 variations in the manuscripts we have today. However, these variations represent only 10,000 places in the New Testament (if the same word was misspelled in 3,000 manuscripts, that is counted as 3,000 variations.) Of these 10,000 places, all but 400 are questions of spelling in accord with accepted usage, grammatical construction, or order of words. Of the remaining variations, only 50 are of significance (such as two manuscripts leaving out Acts 2:37). But of these 50, not one alters even one article of faith which cannot be abundantly sustained by other undoubted passages. There are some manuscripts that date as early as 130 AD, very close to the completion of the New Testament. These manuscripts are nearly identical to those dating 900 years later, thus verifying the accuracy of the scribes.
Dealing with this, read the above link on the “one-prct.htm”
4. These advocates reject all others Bible’s that post-date the KJV.
True! Because they come from the wrong manuscript line and have many, many mistakes, changes, contradictions in them.
5. They believe that the KJV is not only inspired in the original language, but also in the translation process.
Some do, some don’t. Some say inspired, some say preserved. I hope you read the link above to help with this problem. The “answer.htm”
6. This claim of an inspired translation process is not made for any other Bible translation.
Wrong manuscript evidence. You can never get a perfect bible, not even a good one from the wrong evidence. Here is a good class to take on the Manuscript Evidence
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/holland.htm
7. Only a very tiny fraction of people who use the KJV actually believe that the translation process was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Answered above. But what does that say anyway? The majority is hardly ever right in the word of God, it is usually a small group, a remnant, who stays true to God and his word all through time.
8. We feel that the KJV is to be classed as one of several major standards of Bible translations including, NASB, RSV, NKJV, ASV, NIV. All these translations are equal in quality and all should be used for Bible study.
I really want to get into this with you but it will take big space on the blog so it might be better if we talked via e-mail. If you would like to do that then please go to my web site. Thanks! I can show you quite a bit of ultra spooky things in the “bibles” that you mentioned above.,/i>
9. The TR itself was based on a very few, late scripts, not one of which contained the entire Greek New Testament and none earlier than the 12th century. In the matter of the book of Revelation, a missing page was translated from the Latin Vulgate BACK to the Greek. Acts 9:6 although found in the Latin Vulgate, and thus the TR is found in no Greek manuscript at all. In light of its obvious shortcomings, a greater number of older and more complete manuscripts were used in the translation of subsequent versions (post-1881)} (The KJV Debate: A Plea for Realism, D.A. Carson)
This is nothing but a bald faced lie by some of the bible scholars of the Laodicean Church age. We have found some even older manuscripts and they line up with the KJV not the new bibles. They new bible “scholars” are changing their bibles continually. I have a few copies of the NIV and they are a couple years apart from each other and they contradict each other. Verses such as Acts 2:38 since the cults use that one a lot. Many others but one will suffice for now.
And some questions to think about …
# Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769.
Take that class that I was talking about above and you will get all of these answered in a much deeper and better way than I could on this blog.
# What Bible would these KJV worshippers recommend since before 1611 there was no Bible.
Sure there was… I don’t know if this is really worth the time to waste. I can see that you have not studied the issue, you just put down some information from a website. You really don’t know of the bibles that came out before the KJV? I am talking about bibles from the correct manuscript evidence. You never heard of the Geneva Bible, Wycliff’s, The Breeches Bible
# Do they realize that the apostle Paul did not use the KJV.
Do you realize that he used the manuscripts that the KJV came from. Paul most certainly did not use the differences based on two corrupt manuscripts in the new bibles since those changes were made after he was gone.
# Why do KJV only advocates reject the apocrypha, since the original 1611 version contained the apocrypha?
Once again, it is easy to see that you have not studied the issue. The apocrypha was inserted in between the testments because of its historical value, the KJV translators did not consider it the word of God. It was taken out later because of fear thinking someone might just do that.
# If God always gives the world his word in one language (as KJV advocates say of English), then the KJV is certainly not that language, for God chose Koine GREEK not ENGLISH to reveal his New Covenant!
I didn’t know that “KJV advocates” said that. Basically the last day universal language is English but he can put his infallible, inerrrant word in whatever language he chooses. Read the “answer.htm” above.
# If God gave us the KJV as an inspired translation, why would God not repeat the process again in modern language in each language?
Ask him why he just started out in one language, Hebrew. Then ask him why he put the New Testament in Greek. Do you really think these questions are good questions? There are very good bibles before the KJV came out since they were from the correct manuscript evidence line. That line was changed under and by two Cambridge students named, Westcott and Hort. Check the links below for a little of their background so you will know who gave us the new greek for our new bibles. Even the Hebrew is not the right one for the Old Testament that they use for the new bibles.
http://www.ekkcom.net/gail27.htm
http://www.ekkcom.net/gail30.htm
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_44.asp
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/waitgail.htm
# If God supervised the translation process so that the KJV is 100% error free, why did God not extend this supervision to the printers?
You will have to ask God that question. he used the men who translanted it and that is for sure. Maybe the ones who printed it didn’t care as much as to whether they put the letters in correctly or not. Spelling was being established back then too. I have a question based on that but it should show you just how bad the new bibles are. Why does the NIV, NKJV, and others change just about everytime they come out? No wonder people don’t memorize the word of God like they did in the past based on what I read and hear. I know a few who are into the new bibles who memorize it but I don’t understand why when some of the verses that they memorized might be different when the newest version comes out. Why does the NKJV have a Triqueta as a symbol on the front of it? It is three 6’s interwoven together. The same symbol is on New Age books, magazines, etc. Check the link below.
http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html
# Why did the KJV translators use marginal note showing alternate translation possibilities? If the English of the KJV is inspired of God, there would be no alternates!
I would think showing alternate ways to translate a word shows their honestly but they still believed the words that they translated were the words of God.
# If the KJV translators were inspired of God in their work, why did they not know it?
Do you honestly think all the ones that God used to write his word in the original languages “knew” they were inspired? Or better said, “Did they know they were writing his inspired word?” Who said they didn’t know it, taking your thoughts to the other side? Inspired or preserved are very close parallels. We will go deeper into that later.
# Why were all the marginal notes and alternate readings removed from modern editions of the KJV, along with the Apocrypha, the opening Dedication to James I, and a lengthy introduction from “The Translators to the Reader.”?
One reason would be that the KJV translators knew that what was the word of God was put on the pages and not in the footnotes. It is funny that you put these points on here and you defend the new bibles, I guess and they make all kinds of changes in the word inself without so much as a footnote or reference to show that it was different in earlier printing. It is like you are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
it is my opinion that is it not wise to label the KJV as the only reliable translation. Also, I feel it is not wise to make fun of and call people names who do not agree with you. Doing so hurts the very gospel that you are trying to share with them. In my opinion, Kent disrespects people in the way he presents his seminar. Again, just my opinion, but I believe this is not a wise or godly approach in sharing God’s precious gospel with those who are lost.
I am not saying this in a harsh way since you cannot hear my voice when I write this but I would say that saying all or most or many of the translations are reliable translations is not a wise statement. They have many mistakes, contradictions, words left out, taken out, etc. I can’t understand why anyone who has really studied the issue would say the modern versions are the word of God. Which ones? They continuely change.
In closing, I just gave some quick answers and a few links. I can give you many links that go much deeper into these questions and I think I can find the website that deals with all of these questions in depth. I think that we should just deal with one question at a time until we come to a logical conclusion showing which side of the issue is correct. I know that you can “nick pick” these small answers and find some flaws but I was just giving an overall answer to get back with you. It takes a lot more work and time to get the answers than to put a post out with some questions and letting it go to the air waves, so to speak.
Ekkman
Ekkman
Said this on July 6th, 2007 at 1:06am:Jul
4samuel
Said this at 9:58am:
—————————————————————————- —-
Hi Ekkman,
I apologise if I have quoted you out of context but I don’t think you have totally understood me; I will try to explain what I mean.
Samuel,
You quoted me ‘out of context’ by what I see. (Please read past blogs.) I was saying to people that we need to be walking in the Spirit if we expect the Lord to hear our prayers.
Yes we do need to be walking with the Lord and be close to him for many reasons, not just for prayer, but I guess my point is, some people are closer to the Lord then others and our relationship with him is largely based on how much time we spend with him in the spirit. The verse you quoted from the Psalms just looked a bit inappropriate for the prayer request blog and perhaps I took it the wrong way, I’m sorry if this is the case.
I thought it was very appropriate. If we are playing with sin then the Lord will not hear our prayers. So if there are those blogging here and they are playing with deliberate sin then they better get right with the Lord. Sin kills!
All I was saying is we should pray without ceasing, regardless of how close we are or think we are to the Lord. How else do you make a stronger connection with him? Prayer, praise and reading his word with a hungry heart seeking the truth! Always pray everyone, regardless how near or far you are from the Lord, he hears and he answers! Pray that he draws you nearer!
How do you pray without ceasing? I agree that he hears prayers of repentance if we are walking in disobedience to his revealed will for our lives. Then he will hear our other prayers. Jonah was heard in the belly of the whale when he repented and got right with God, not until. For example, My wife is living in adultery. Do you think that God hears her prayers? “God, I pray that you will help me and my new boyfriend have a good time while we are out tonight. In Jesus’ name, amen!”
Samuel,
I wanted to deal with the above comment a little. If you read the word, you will find plenty of debating, arguing and the like all through it. True believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are and will be at odds with the world. This place is not our home, we are passing through. We have a better kingdom awaiting us but we are to stand for truth while we are here. As said before, preaching the gospel causes division. The Lord Jesus Christ caused division most places he went. He told us that we are either with him or against him. There is no middle ground. Paul debated, argued with many believers and non believers. Truth sets us free. We must speak, stand for truth at all costs. Are you willing to debate and argue with others if you have truth and you know it can set them free? Sometimes standing for truth isn’t easy. It will cost us something.
Paul put it this way. “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Gal 4:16 Be willing to become an enemy to others by walking in truth, don’t build a plastic relationship by living in lies, deceit, confusion, and the like. I read a sign out here that says, “Preach the gospel always! If necessary use words.” I started thinking, ‘Are they serious?” You can’t preach the gospel without words. I see what they were trying to say but it wasn’t said correctly and that was sad. Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.
Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.
Now you have taken me out of context: P I didn’t mean let’s preach the gospel with smiles, fluffy bunnies and love hearts only. Or do it at a distance without speaking. Or don’t speak the truth as to not offend anyone. This is NOT what I mean.
I was talking to Todd and he told me that I used something with him that isn’t true. I use illustrations to show some truth but not saying the whole illustration applies in every way.
You can lead a horse to water, but if it isn’t thirsty, it won’t drink. The Lord stands at the door and knocks; he doesn’t use a battering ram. He speaks in a soft loving voice and if any man hears it, he will come in.
??????? I have no idea why you said the above statement. Who is using battering rams?
You cannot “prove” God exists empirically, or that creation occurred empirically. ALL of the belief systems in this world, regardless of how feasible they are have to be trusted with a certain amount of FAITH. I was more directing my comments to people who continually entertain non-believers and others who frequently visit this blog (whom I suspect do, simply to argue with, annoy, and bad mouth believers).
I agree that we all live by faith in some way or another. Jesus told us to have faith in God not in our jobs, our spouse, our bank accounts, all of them will pass away. Only God stands sure for his people.
It’s like an I’M RIGHT YOURE WRONG – LOOK AT THE PROOF situation on both sides and this is not how you preach the gospel in my opinion. The gospel should be preached in word, deed and truth. Self righteousness is the number 1 turn off for ANYONE being witnessed to.
I feel like I just came in on a conversation that I know absolutely nothing about. Truth is narrow, one is right and one is wrong if there are absolutes. A man with a woman in marriage is right. A man with a man in marriage is wrong. I guess one example will suffice.
Ekkman said this”
“Our life better line up with the words but the words are absolutely needed.”
If your life lined up with the law and truth of God exactly you would be God himself, ALL have sinned saved or unsaved, ALL will sin saved or not saved. Sin entered the world through one mans sin and death through sin. We are still bound to this world but we do not have to be conformed, we renew our mind and spirits with the Word of God. It just looks a little bit like you are saying, unless your life conforms exactly to the how the Bible says we should live our life then don’t witness, if that was true, NO ONE should witness as NO ONE is perfect.
I noticed that you pulled this out of context with what I was talkng about. I don’t know why you did that but… I was quoting what I read on a church sign about preaching the gospel and use words if necessary. AND then I said, the above sentence. “Our life better line up with our words but the words are absolutely needed.” You cannot preach the gospel without words. The word of God is words and words are important.
Regarding all have sinned. Why is a person saved? Does God want us to live life here as overcomers or undergoers? Paul said, “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
It just looks as though grace, forgiveness and mercy is being preached on one hand and law, condemnation and justice on the other. Who did Jesus die for again? ALL? Not just the “good”? Did he come to get the righteous into heaven? No! the sinners to repentance!
There were no good to die for. You just said all have sinned. Now when we are born again, he makes us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. That is a positional truth as well as I John 3:9 and many others but we make it an experiential truth as we act out James 4:7 by submitting to God and resisting the devil.
Again, I am NOT insinuating sinning under grace, we should do our best to live up to Jesus Christ’s example and try to be the best we can with compassion, understanding, mercy, hope and love. But not condemn or let ourselves be put down for besetting sins or mistakes we make along the walk of life with the Lord. He still forgives and loves us. We are his Children now and he deals with us in the ways he sees fit.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Rom 8:1-4)
You really don’t think that because you are born again you are now perfect do you? Well if you do you are mistaken.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Co 5:17
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Mat 5:48
Speaking for myself, there are many mistakes I make along the road of life, many things I am learning and understanding and still will be until I meet the Lord in the next life. I am, although now saved through the grace of God, a worthless sinner, STILL counting on our Lord Jesus Christ to save me. Only he can, and only he will.
Is he going to save you or has he already saved you?
Dear Jason, I’m sorry if I came across as nitpicking and yes you are right mans words are fallible, but remember mans words are also in the bible and ALL men are fallible. Only Jesus was not. This is not meant to say that the Bible is fallible. But as Kent Hovind says in one of his seminars, BIBLE = Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. We only see through a glass darkly at present and all will be revealed in the hereafter.
Kent also said that the KJV Bible is infallible and inerrant and so do I. Jesus is called the Word of God and he was perfect, the scriptures are called the word of God and they are perfect. Most everything said about the Word made flesh is said about the word called scripture.
I have to run now as its getting late.
God bless and keep you all! Sorry if I have rambled a bit, annoyed or offended anyone with my posts but this is how I feel.
Sam.
Ekkman
eecreationist
Said this on July 7th, 2007 at 12:45pm:EndTimes
“Please read Psalm 2 and then go to the Apotheosis of Washington. Yes, conspiracy theories are not theories when the Bible prophecies speak of them 3 thousand years before they occur, they are simply fact. I wouldn’t place your trust in your current rulers. See Psalm 118:8-9.”
I have read Psalm 2 and Psalm 118. Didn’t see anything about 911 or Chem Trails. Nor have I seen Bible prophecies that talk about these incidents. Not that I don’t believe in Bible prophecies, of course I do.
Again, you need to have an understanding of Revelation 2:16 as well as Revelation 3:7-13 which speak of the work done by King James. (Hint, look up the political findings of King James over the “gunpowder plot.”) Pray over it and read it from the KJV and compare Scripture with Scripture and then look into the history of the church over the last 2000 from a good source. The Trail of Blood by J.M. Carroll is an excellent resource.
http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm
If you listen to the so called Bible prophecy experts, you will never see the simple truths of Revelation. Instead, the Bible interprets itself. (Isaiah 28:9-13, II Peter 1:20-21, II Corinthians 13:1, I Thessalonians 5:21, I John 2: 27) All wisdom and knowledge comes from the Father above. (James 1:17) All understanding is through the Spirit. (I Corinthians 2: 6-16) So, ask the Lord Himself who will give you the understanding of His Holy Word if you will only ask Him. (James1:5-8). So as in all things of the Bible, it is a matter of faith in believing that His Word is the TRUE, LITERAL WORD OF GOD. If you come before Him doubting that His Word is the truth, He will not teach you ANYTHING WHATSOEVER!!!
I don’t doubt that His Word is true. I said I am not in the KJV ONLY camp. I am in the KJV camp. I have read Kiplinger’s “New Age bible Versions” and I think they all make very good points. But as I said before, I still struggle to read it. It is difficult reading. So I still read other versions. I do pray and ask God to help me understand it. But whether the KJV is the only true Bible or not does not make it easier to read and understand. Say if Martin Luther’s bible is the only true bible? What good does that do me, I don’t speak German.
Dear eecreationist, the Bible states quite clearly that the stars and the sun and the moon and Adam and Eve had the “appearance of age” from the beginning. Why do you buy into the evolutionist paradox that God is somehow lying to us because the stars were made with the appearance of age? This is simply not true. God proved to Adam that He was the Creator by creating all of the animals in the Garden of Eden for Adam to name. Thus, there was no need to know the “age” of the universe for Adam since the evolution/creation debate was preposterous for Adam to contemplate. He observed in Genesis chapter 2 the creative power of God on the sixth day. Adam, came fully equipped and didn’t grow into the garden of Eden. The trees were fully formed.
We likewise see the same creative power in Jesus with the feeding of the 5000 with fully “grown” fish. Likewise, the wine had the appearance of age even though he just created it from water at the wedding in Cana of Galilee. I don’t ever bite into theological doctrines without proving them first, but the so called argument of the “appearance of age” has much scriptural support. I hope that this is helpful.
I never said God is lying to us by giving the appearance of age. I agree that Jesus made water into wine which gave it the appearance of age, even though it happened instantaneously. But He certainly wasn’t lying to anyone. Nor was God lying to us when He made a galaxy of stars visible to us all starting from day one. As Donald DeYoung put it, “it’s not lying to us if the events that happened occured in God’s mind”. He was talking about when people say we see something like a star explosion that never really existed at the source since the source is more than 6000 light years away. What I was talking about was when Hovind talks about how we can’t measure the distance accurately. My point is that doesn’t make any difference. I believe the stars HAVE to be millions and billions of light years away or else we’d all cook. You just can’t fit that many stars inside of a sphere of 6000 light years in radius. In order to have the number of stars that God wanted to have in our galaxy, they just have to be that far away. I do believe Usher’s prediction of the age of the universe to be accurate. I am a young earth creationist. There are too many other evidences (in addition to the bible) that point to a “young” earth.
mattias
Said this on July 7th, 2007 at 8:17pm:This forum, as much as any, has a tendency to develop into an endless debate and pointless nitpicking. Which probably is in order for most visitors. I wouldn’t know. Those of us with short attention span however, who would rather not spend an entire afternoon perusing semantic battles of this elaborate opinion versus that, and interpretations of scripture…err…it’s something we can do without. It’s a drag, really.
As for Kent Hovind being responsible for Jo’s possible jailtime or not: who cares. I know I was saved thanks to his work for the Lord, and there are numerous out there with the same gratitude as I feel. Without all the Creation ministries out there this world would be a worse cesspool than it is. Hovind’s contribution may be more controversial than the rest, due to his candid review of politics, conspiracies and religious denominations, but what if he’s right? Should we close our eyes to the truth just because it’s ugly? I think Jo Hovind has been aware all along that this situation might come eventually. She is not a child, bear in mind. Kent is being persecuted for having Christ as his Head, just as Jo is being persecuted for having a Christian husband as her Head. Isn’t this just another fulfilment of biblical prophesy: Christians are being murdered, jailed, belittled and scoffed at all over the world – why should one of the world’s most travelled creationists be an exception?
Oh, I digress. Sorry.
A scripture moment, 1 Corinthians 3 (adding to SAMUEL’s posts above):
“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your’s; Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your’s; And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.”
Described here, as I interpret it, is the promise that EVERYONE who confesses Jesus Christ to be the Son of God is saved. No matter one’s potential future sins. Jesus is the foundation of every Christian. If you build a futile house on that foundation it will be destroyed, but you will be cleansed and saved. “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” The key to salvation is the foundation, which is Jesus Christ.
How do we discern a true believer in Christ from a hypocrite? A true believer does the will of God and aims for perfection. Not that anyone will ever reach perfection but it’s the goal isn’t it? To become like Christ, the perfect man. What is the will of God? That we follow His commandments. The laws given to Moses are not nullified, but instead of having them imposed on us so that we inevitably rebel against them or harden our hearts because of blind obedience, they are put in our hearts in the shape of a conscience through the spirit of truth – The Holy Spirit. I have met people who are not ashamed when they lie – they think nothing of it. It’s astounding to me. I can only speak for myself, but since I have become a Christian it’s increasingly harder to lie, steal, hate, fornicate, envy and so on. It’s as if my conscience is surfacing and it disciplines me. I still sin once in a while, but I feel miserable doing it. So I try my best to exclude things that make me feel miserable, i.e. actions that break the commandments. I figure, for as long as I’m in the flesh, marriage is the greatest antidote for fornication, so that’s my next step towards perfection. “Flee fornication”.
These were my humble thoughts.
A wholehearted thank you to Kent Hovind and his ministry, none mentioned none forgotten.
/Mattias
samuel
Said this on July 9th, 2007 at 4:54am:Hi Ekkman,
I said: “All I was saying is we should pray without ceasing, regardless of how close we are or think we are to the Lord. How else do you make a stronger connection with him? Prayer, praise and reading his word with a hungry heart seeking the truth! Always pray everyone, regardless how near or far you are from the Lord, he hears and he answers! Pray that he draws you nearer!”
Ekkman said: “How do you pray without ceasing? I agree that he hears prayers of repentance if we are walking in disobedience to his revealed will for our lives. Then he will hear our other prayers. Jonah was heard in the belly of the whale when he repented and got right with God, not until. For example, My wife is living in adultery. Do you think that God hears her prayers? “God, I pray that you will help me and my new boyfriend have a good time while we are out tonight. In Jesus’ name, amen!””
I think you know this is not how I meant it, you are being a little bit obnoxious.
It sounds like you are quite bitter against your wife. Yes, your wife may be living in adultery and I can only imagine how much this hurts you. But this does not mean she is damned to hell for eternity. Perhaps the Lord is using it as a test and trial for you just for one. I really cannot comment as I do not know your full situation, but be careful how you judge her. By the way, has your wife accepted Jesus Christ as her saviour?
Also, in regard to some of your comments: I am more than willing to stand up for Jesus in this wicked and sinful generation. I am more that happy to lay down my life, my reputation, my all for the Lord. No, this world is not our home, we are just passing through, but that does not make us any more special or better then anyone else. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, for the wages of sin is indeed death, but Gods gift is totally free, eternal life through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for us at Calvary.
I said: “You can lead a horse to water, but if it isn’t thirsty, it won’t drink. The Lord stands at the door and knocks; he doesn’t use a battering ram. He speaks in a soft loving voice and if any man hears it, he will come in.”
Ekkman said: “ ??????? I have no idea why you said the above statement. Who is using battering rams?”
This was just an example of the love & meekness of the Lord and of his truth, it is there for all who want it, for the taking, it is in no way forced upon anyone. Sorry if I confused you.
Ekkman said: “I feel like I just came in on a conversation that I know absolutely nothing about. Truth is narrow, one is right and one is wrong if there are absolutes. A man with a woman in marriage is right. A man with a man in marriage is wrong. I guess one example will suffice.”
I totally agree; some issues are more black and white then others. Homosexuality is clearly judged in the Bible, as is self righteousness (God probably sees this as a worse sin) The law stands to convict man and to show us that not ONE is righteous and we all deserve death and are in need of a saviour. God loves us so much that he has made provision to save us through his amazing grace.
But remember, even with all the scriptures, with the gift of the Holy Spirit, of tongues and the gift prophesy, we STILL see through a glass darkly, so please do not make out you know everything about the truth because we will never know all there is to know until the next life, once face to face with Jesus, the way the truth and the life. And yes, I believe the Bible IS the inerrant word of God, but as Kent also said, God promised to preserve his word, NOT our language and interpretations.
Ekkman said: “Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.”
One you have accepted Jesus Christ in to your heart he does the hard work for you; it is HE who shines through you and creates the good Christian example needed to win people to him. All we have to do is crucify the flesh, take up our cross and follow him. “For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” “Cast your burdens upon the Lord and he will sustain you” You didn’t think it was you being good enough for him did you? It is ALL Jesus, thank the Lord, praise his glorious name!
Ekkman said: “There were no good to die for. You just said all have sinned. Now when we are born again, he makes us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. That is a positional truth as well as I John 3:9 and many others but we make it an experiential truth as we act out James 4:7 by submitting to God and resisting the devil.”
Just a question, do you think that once you have accepted Jesus, are born again and saved you no longer commit any sins, make any mistakes or do anything wrong? One step further to this, do you believe you can lose your salvation?
Ekkman said “Is he going to save you or has he already saved you?”
Both! He has already saved me and he is going to save me! (He already saved me spiritually when he made the sacrifice for me by dying for us all on the cross and by my humble acceptance of Gods free gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ. Also, he is going to save me from this world – I refer to the second coming.)
Ephesians 2:7-9
In the ages to come he might shew (will show) the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
With love and kindness,
God bless you all,
Sam.
samuel
Said this on July 9th, 2007 at 5:09am:Hi Mattias,
mattias said: “How do we discern a true believer in Christ from a hypocrite? A true believer does the will of God and aims for perfection. Not that anyone will ever reach perfection but it’s the goal isn’t it? To become like Christ, the perfect man. What is the will of God? That we follow His commandments. The laws given to Moses are not nullified, but instead of having them imposed on us so that we inevitably rebel against them or harden our hearts because of blind obedience, they are put in our hearts in the shape of a conscience through the spirit of truth – The Holy Spirit. I have met people who are not ashamed when they lie – they think nothing of it. It’s astounding to me. I can only speak for myself, but since I have become a Christian it’s increasingly harder to lie, steal, hate, fornicate, envy and so on. It’s as if my conscience is surfacing and it disciplines me. I still sin once in a while, but I feel miserable doing it. So I try my best to exclude things that make me feel miserable, i.e. actions that break the commandments. I figure, for as long as I’m in the flesh, marriage is the greatest antidote for fornication, so that’s my next step towards perfection. “Flee fornication”.”
Thank you for those wonderful words. I must say I agree, this is pretty much what I understand and believe in a nutshell.
God bless you!
Sam.
EndTimes
Said this on July 9th, 2007 at 11:28pm:Eecreationist
Said this at 12:45pm:
I don’t doubt that His Word is true. I said I am not in the KJV ONLY camp. I am in the KJV camp. I have read Kiplinger’s “New Age bible Versions” and I think they all make very good points. But as I said before, I still struggle to read it. It is difficult reading. So I still read other versions. I do pray and ask God to help me understand it. But whether the KJV is the only true Bible or not does not make it easier to read and understand. Say if Martin Luther’s bible is the only true bible? What good does that do me, I don’t speak German.
Dear eecreationist,
The KJV is actually the easiest reading English Bible at the 5th grade level. Any “archaic” words are easily looked up in different dictionaries with the 1828 Webster’s as one of the best. My wife comes from the Philippines and she actually is able to speak the words from the KJV better than me after a very little time. Understanding anything in the Bible is not a matter of which version used, but instead it is a matter of method, comparing Scripture to Scripture and most importantly prayer and supplication as this is a spiritual issue giving wisdom from God above. So, searching through different and what I consider inferior texts is not the answer to spiritual understanding. It is instead an endeavor that we must approach the Lord to give us that wisdom and understanding. Nevertheless, the KJV is the best English version extant today and it is written at a lower grade level than any of the other versions.
So, for accuracy and purity, the KJV is the best. For simplicity, it is actually the best with the note that you may need to look up a few words here and there. I don’t think that has hurt anyone in the past has it? So, all things are done in “spirit” and truth. Keep at it with the KJV and don’t give up on it.
As for conspiracy theories, you are correct in not finding specific conspiracies such as you listed. But definitely the general conspiracy against the Lord and His anointed is born out in the Apotheosis of Washington with his feet atop the rainbow which is the glory of God. Quite plain really. So, keep your eyes on the Lord and know that the kings and rulers of this earth are not faithful to Christianity by the testimony of the Bible. They are not to be trusted. You will not have to look too far to see discrepancies in the official stories and the true facts of many different issues. Psalm 2 explains this phenomenon.
May God Bless,
EndTimes
Ekkman
Said this on July 10th, 2007 at 3:07am:Jul
9samuel
Said this at 4:54am:
———————————————————————– ———
Hi Ekkman,
I said: “All I was saying is we should pray without ceasing, regardless of how close we are or think we are to the Lord. How else do you make a stronger connection with him? Prayer, praise and reading his word with a hungry heart seeking the truth! Always pray everyone, regardless how near or far you are from the Lord, he hears and he answers! Pray that he draws you nearer!”
When a Christian is far from the Lord, the normal thing that he wouldn’t do is pray. He has no desire for fellowship with the Lord and wouldn’t get it anyway if he is playing with sin. Deliberate sin breaks fellowship with God and if it continues then we are in deep trouble. How does a Christian always pray? When you are playing with sin and talking to God, you are not praying. You might think you are but you are not really praying.
Ekkman said: “How do you pray without ceasing? I agree that he hears prayers of repentance if we are walking in disobedience to his revealed will for our lives. Then he will hear our other prayers. Jonah was heard in the belly of the whale when he repented and got right with God, not until. For example, My wife is living in adultery. Do you think that God hears her prayers? “God, I pray that you will help me and my new boyfriend have a good time while we are out tonight. In Jesus’ name, amen!””
I think you know this is not how I meant it, you are being a little bit obnoxious.
I wasn’t being obnoxious. I was just being honest, I don’t know you so I was asking. You wouldn’t believe all the “Christians” that feel this is all right to do.
It sounds like you are quite bitter against your wife. Yes, your wife may be living in adultery and I can only imagine how much this hurts you. But this does not mean she is damned to hell for eternity. Perhaps the Lord is using it as a test and trial for you just for one. I really cannot comment as I do not know your full situation, but be careful how you judge her. By the way, has your wife accepted Jesus Christ as her saviour?
I can honestly say I have no bitterness at all for her. I still love her very much, I pity her and pray for her a lot. I cry for her and my kids everyday at the weirdest times. I could be driving and I start crying for them and also pray for them or I see some kids and I start crying and praying for mine. I drive past a park that I took them to a lot of times and I would start crying and praying again. This goes on in many other illustrations. Yea, I believe that she really accepted him a few years ago but she turned her back on him now. She will not go to heaven unless she repents and turns back to the Lord. I am super careful how I judge her. I want my judgments to be righteous judgments based on God’s word. The Lord makes in plain no adulterer, fornicator will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I would take her back in a minute if she truly repents just as the Lord would do.
I would also say to you be very careful how you judge her. Many seem to think if they judge “positively” about the person that they are all right in their judgments. That isn’t righteous judgment necessarily. We are to judge by the word of God and by the Spirit of God. Jesus was hard core with truth especially with the religious leaders. Jesus said in Rev. 3: that he is going to spew the lukewarm Christians out of his mouth. Some tell me that isn’t hell. I just tell them I don’t want to be spewed to the other side of heaven by the Lord Jesus Christ, I want to hear him say well done.
Also, in regard to some of your comments: I am more than willing to stand up for Jesus in this wicked and sinful generation. I am more that happy to lay down my life, my reputation, my all for the Lord. No, this world is not our home, we are just passing through, but that does not make us any more special or better then anyone else. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, for the wages of sin is indeed death, but Gods gift is totally free, eternal life through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for us at Calvary.
I believe we spit in the Lord’s face, so to speak, when we talk about how wicked and sinful we are after he made us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I think that is one of the major reasons that so many Christians are living in defeat and ruin. They live what they believe that they are. Jesus made us saints of God in the here and now. We don’t wait till we get to heaven to become saints like the Roman Catholics teach. Many of the Epistles start off “to the saints at…” God tells us in I John 3:9 that those who are born of God cannot sin, but we still have the old sin nature by way of the flesh that we are called to crucify daily to walk overcoming, victorious lives.>/b>
I said: “You can lead a horse to water, but if it isn’t thirsty, it won’t drink. The Lord stands at the door and knocks; he doesn’t use a battering ram. He speaks in a soft loving voice and if any man hears it, he will come in.”
Ekkman said: “ ??????? I have no idea why you said the above statement. Who is using battering rams?”
This was just an example of the love & meekness of the Lord and of his truth, it is there for all who want it, for the taking, it is in no way forced upon anyone. Sorry if I confused you.
It is true that the Lord of glory is love and meek but he came the first time to save the world not to condemn since it was already condemned. But those who reject his offer of salvation when he comes again, it will be as judge and a battering ram would be easier on you. Like the bumper sticker says, “Jesus is coming back soon and boy is he mad.
Ekkman said: “I feel like I just came in on a conversation that I know absolutely nothing about. Truth is narrow, one is right and one is wrong if there are absolutes. A man with a woman in marriage is right. A man with a man in marriage is wrong. I guess one example will suffice.”
I totally agree; some issues are more black and white then others. Homosexuality is clearly judged in the Bible, as is self righteousness (God probably sees this as a worse sin) The law stands to convict man and to show us that not ONE is righteous and we all deserve death and are in need of a saviour. God loves us so much that he has made provision to save us through his amazing grace.
But remember, even with all the scriptures, with the gift of the Holy Spirit, of tongues and the gift prophesy, we STILL see through a glass darkly, so please do not make out you know everything about the truth because we will never know all there is to know until the next life, once face to face with Jesus, the way the truth and the life. And yes, I believe the Bible IS the inerrant word of God, but as Kent also said, God promised to preserve his word, NOT our language and interpretations.
Since we have his pure and perfect word in the here and now, then we need to study it and he will lead and guide us to all truth as he promised. Sure we see through a glass darkly but that shouldn’t stop us from going deeper and deeper with the Lord right now.
Ekkman said: “Final question based on what you said above. How can you be a “sample” (example) if they don’t see you and spend time with you in person? Words are powerful especially words from or based on the word of God.”
One you have accepted Jesus Christ in to your heart he does the hard work for you; it is HE who shines through you and creates the good Christian example needed to win people to him. All we have to do is crucify the flesh, take up our cross and follow him. “For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” “Cast your burdens upon the Lord and he will sustain you” You didn’t think it was you being good enough for him did you? It is ALL Jesus, thank the Lord, praise his glorious name!
We are saved to be conformed to his image, Jesus isn’t saved to be conformed to Jesus’ image but we are.
What I was saying is: People on this blog cannot see you shining with his glory. They need to hear the truth by the word of God and or principles from the word.
Ekkman said: “There were no good to die for. You just said all have sinned. Now when we are born again, he makes us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. That is a positional truth as well as I John 3:9 and many others but we make it an experiential truth as we act out James 4:7 by submitting to God and resisting the devil.”
Just a question, do you think that once you have accepted Jesus, are born again and saved you no longer commit any sins, make any mistakes or do anything wrong? One step further to this, do you believe you can lose your salvation?
Explain II Corinth 5:17-20; I John 3:3-9; I John 5:18 to name a few for now. Read the link below about my views on ‘once saved, always saved’.
http://www.ekkcom.net/saved.htm
Ekkman said “Is he going to save you or has he already saved you?”
Both! He has already saved me and he is going to save me! (He already saved me spiritually when he made the sacrifice for me by dying for us all on the cross and by my humble acceptance of Gods free gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ. Also, he is going to save me from this world – I refer to the second coming.)
Ephesians 2:7-9
In the ages to come he might shew (will show) the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Amen!
With love and kindness,
God bless you all,
Sam.
Ekkman
eecreationist
Said this on July 11th, 2007 at 11:18am:I have read the NIV and the NLT cover to cover. I have tried reading the KJV several times and still struggle with it and I am 100% english speaking American. Most people I talk to who read the bible say the same thing. I have prayed to God that I can understand it because I do believe it is the best version. But understanding what I am reading is more important than reading the best version and not understanding it. I am still working on understanding it better. Now I am reading Ray Comfort’s Easy Reading King James. Even that I find to be difficult to understand sometimes. It’s not like I am undereducated or anything, I am a professional electrical engineer (PE) so that is why I find it so baffling that people say that the KJV is 5th (or around that age) grade level reading. Side from having to look up some words (which I am fine with) the words themselves are sometimes aranged in a different order than modern english which can be confusing.
So from a personal experience I have found some of the other versions easier to understand. I don’t care about statistics or what studies have shown. Maybe there is something that I am missing. I have heard of books that you can get that help you to read the KJV and understand it better. I do plan on reading those, but if you need to read a book to understand it, can it really be true that it is the easiest bible to read? I don’t see any books that help you read the NIV, or the NLT…
I do understand that getting the true meaning is “easier” from the KJV but that is because I think it is a superior bible that translates from the correct manuscripts, not because it is easier english to read. Kind of like saying I get more out of what God is saying in the KJV than I do from Left Behind.
Three Crosses
Said this on July 12th, 2007 at 7:20pm:First to the Editor/mediator sorry about the length of this:
To eecreationist: I was raised with the NIV my biggest problem with it is John 3:16 the Niv ghanges “only begotten” to “his one and only son” leaving the rest of us in the cold. Some more are as follows:
Try Answering These From Your NIV
By Rex L. Cobb
INSTRUCTIONS:
Using the New International Version Bible, answer the following questions to this NIV quiz.
Do not rely on your memory. As the Bible is the final authority, you must take the answer from the Bible verse (not from footnotes but from the text).
Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. “Love your enemies,__________ them that curse you, ______________ to them that hate you, and pray for them that __________ and persecute you.”
According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this type of demon?
According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?
According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate’s first name?
In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.
In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out demons and to: ____________
According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?
According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter, etc.). What is his title or last name?
In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?
In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this verse, what did He come to do?
In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?
According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription written?
In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?
John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ. According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?
What happened each year as told in John 5:4?
In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?
In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?
What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?
Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.
Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the chief captain’s name? What did the chief captain command?
Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.
First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the flesh?
In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ? And, what do we Christians do?
Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7?
Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, “I am the A______________ and O___________, the _________ and the _______:”
If you read the last chapter of Revelations it might also clear this up for you!
With love Three Crosses
P.S. the Niv is translated from the roman catholic bible aka “the majority of texts”
[EDITOR'S NOTE: The length is fine. I do not disagree, by the way. I have not "chimed in" on this debate up until now, but I am strongly KJV oriented. While the NIV, RSV, NASB, et al, have "simplified words", they have also CHANGED MEANINGS! Evil persons are altering the Bible's words. The Church is being weakened from within. The KJV is the closest to Textus Receptus, the thousands of manuscripts that were passed down by believers over the millennia. Also see: http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html P.A. ]
Ekkman
Said this on July 14th, 2007 at 4:41pm:Jul
12
btodd
Said this at 5:47pm:
QUOTE BY THE EDITOR: What scientists believe and what the science shows are sometimes at odds. (Remember Galileo, an example of scientists being wrong for over 1,000 years!) END QUOTE
END QUOTE: And it most certainly is NOT based on science. Otherwise they’d be the first to want textbooks with evolutionary pseudo-science corrected. They don’t. (See Dr. Hovind’s Seminar #4, “Lies in the Textbooks” http://shopping.drdino.com/view_item.php?id=443 ) Most evolutionists put their religion ahead of science. P.A. ] END QUOTE
You would have us believe that science is religion, and religion is science. Good luck with your re-defining of words.
btodd
[EDITOR’S NOTE: In showing evolution to be religious, I am standing against “science, falsely so-called” but not at all against real science. I love science. And like Galileo, I stand against the consensus of unscientific scientists who are wallowing in their vain traditions and peer-pressure/peer-review hollow beliefs that they just must be right. Pasteur - mocked by scientists. Einstein - also insulted for challenging quantum mechanics with his relativity notions. The consensus of scientists is often wrong. It is up to us scientifically thinking persons to correct them once again regarding the religion of evolution - a non-testable-repeatable belief system that defies science and that hides from our Maker. P.A.
1 Timothy 6:20 “O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called.” ]
Since Galileo keeps coming up, I thought everyone would be interested in reading these two pages of many that are out there on the same subject. Please read them, don’t just skim them, read them and then let you opinion be known. They are written by scientists even with those letters, “PhD” behind the name.
http://www.refcm.org/RICDiscussions/Science-Scripture/geocentricity.htm
Scroll down the page a little bit and click on the link says, “Another Look at Galileo” -by Dr. John Byl
http://www.geocentricity.com/
Click on the Geocentricity Link on the left side of the page.
Ekkman
eecreationist
Said this on July 16th, 2007 at 6:33pm:These are all good points. I looked through a lot of them. As I said before, I have studied the KJV topic a lot and do find that the KJV is the superior Bible. My point is not its accuracy or authority, rather its difficulty to read. I know of scripture that is as accurate or more accurate than the KJV. It is the original scripts written in Greek and Hebrew. So if you had a choice, which would you rather be stuck on a deserted island with, those or an NIV? I was actually able to answer a lot of those questions with my wife’s NIV, which has footnotes that include the missing information.
I am praying and trying to read it and understand it. As Hovind often said, “I’d rather you read the NIV than Playboy” so I don’t necassarily think it is bad to read a Bible that is not King James as long as you agree on the essentials (Deity of Christ, Trinity, Salvation, etc.). But I do think that the serious Bible student should use the King James (which I do on some key verses). Does anyone recommend some books or literature that will help to understand the KJV? I know I have seen them. Gail Riplinger has some books on the topic…not sure if any of them help to read it. In “New Age Versions” Appendix C she has a chapter called “how to understand the King James Bible”. It was not of specific help, mostly it was Bible verses that show that you need to humble yourself to God, pray and meditate. All good, but I am looking for something (preferably in book form) that has a list of the words not commonly used with their definitions and some other material that helps you to read and understand it.
So as I said before, I do believe the KJV is the ultimate authority for the english speaking person. But I think the fact that Riplinger has a chapter devoted to “how to understand the KJV” drives home my point.
Three Crosses
Said this on July 17th, 2007 at 9:36am:To eecreationist: I don’t have a good answer for your question, but if you want to learn alot about Bible translations Jack Chick has http://www.chick.com it might have what you are looking for. It is a very thorough rescource and it has the “Trail of Blood” available a good read for a brother in Christ.
God bless! love the three crosses
Three Crosses
Said this on July 17th, 2007 at 9:43am:To eecreationist: Maybe I do have an answer have you considered a Schofield reference Bible. I disagree with alot of the footnotes and such but it gives definitions and references on the page. Thanks again!
God bless!
P.S. eat the meat spit out the bones
Samarra
Said this on July 17th, 2007 at 6:38pm:I am sorry to hear of Mrs Hovind’s sentencing. The last I’d heard about her, the charges had been dropped (or so I thought I’d read) and I was most happy for her. I can’t imagine that she has to do time in a federal prison. I am truly saddened to hear this. Jo, you are in my thoughts and prayers … may our Lord Jesus be with you and may your upcoming *term* go by quickly. God Bless to all the Hovinds.
Luv n hugzzz, your sister in Christ!
Samarra
wtwiegand
Said this on July 27th, 2007 at 11:46am:Hovind family, we are praying for you! We support Dr. Hovind in his decision to stand against the voluntary income tax and the corrupt system. Here is a case that may show precedence in the event that there will be an appeal for the family.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56855
May the Lord use this to bring the Hovind family together and not let it be a wedge that brings separation and disunity.