From: God
Sent: November 15, 2007
To: Kent, Red, Mom
Subject: A Soldier – For the Duration
GOD: Good morning, Son! Come with Me and listen to this conversation:
(Red is a twenty-one-year-old in Pittsburgh, PA in 1941. Everyone calls him “Red” because of his red hair and freckles.)
Red: Hey, Mom, I joined the Marines!
Mom: Oh, Son! I don’t know how to feel about that. Your father died two years ago. Your older sister got married. It’s just you and I, Son. Times are so hard now. I need you here to help out.
Red: But Mom, the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor last week! The President is calling for volunteers to join the war effort. I’ve got to go!
Mom: Son, you are only twenty-one. Your whole life is ahead of you. You could be killed or wounded. Then what would I do?
Red: Mom, if I don’t go, they may come to attack us here. I’ve got to go to protect you, Sis, and our country. We didn’t start this fight but we’ve been attacked. There is no other choice now. We must fight to defend ourselves.
Mom: Oh, Son, there will be plenty of other young men who join up. You could stay here and work in a steel mill to supply equipment for the war.
Red: Mom, you know I love you and wouldn’t hurt you for the world, but this is something I have got to do! I leave in three weeks.
Mom: How long did you enlist for, two years?
Red: For the duration of the war.
Mom: What does that mean?
Red: I’ll be fighting until it’s over. It’s them or us.
Mom: Oh, Son! You are a man now. You can make your own decisions. This rips my heart out, but I love you and I’m proud of you!
Red: I’ll write you every chance I get and send you as much of my pay as I can to help out here. You will make it, Mom. I’ll be back. I promise.
Mom: Son, you realize that enlisting means that you are giving your mind, body, and future to Uncle Sam, don’t you? You must obey every command he gives, even if it means your death.
Red: I know, Mom. I’m dedicating everything to this cause.
Mom: Son, let’s pray for God to protect you and give us the victory.
………Three Weeks Later
Officer: Next! OK, Soldier: name, height, weight, and shoe size!
Red: Robert B. Hovind, sir, six foot two, two hundred twenty pounds, size twelve shoe, sir.
Kent: Oh, God! Thank you for protecting my dad for those four awful years! He dedicated everything for the cause of freedom. He saw all twenty-five of his fellow classmates in training get killed! Those Marines gave it all!
GOD: Yes, Son, war is awful, and those Marines were dedicated.
Kent: Lord….I know there is a great war going on for the minds and souls of men.
God: Yes, there is, Son, ever since the Garden of Eden.
Kent: Lord….I don’t have much to offer, but You can have me. I’m Yours to use however You want and whenever You want, even in prison……..for the duration.
God: I accept your offer, Son, -again.
Kent: Lord…I signed up the first time almost thirty-nine years ago now. Does boot camp ever end?
God: Well, boot camp ends, but I often call My soldiers to get further training for new assignments. I’ll re-assign you soon, Son. Go back to sleep. Training continues when you wake up. I’ve got your back.
Bro Kent,
Hope you are doing well. I am continuing to pray that God will strengthen you and your family and your ministry. Hang in there.
I wanted to let you know that this past week we had Bro Stacey Pearcy preach our revival. It was a wonderful week! Holy Ghost led and fed, praise the Lord!
I had the privilege of taking him and his family out Wednesday evening. Somehow we got on the topic of Creation and I mentioned your name. He said he knows you and has preached beside you in the past. He said you were a great preacher and knew of your good work and ministry. He asked if I knew what your current situation was, I told him of the ‘holding pattern’ and gave him this blog address. With grace he may stop by and check in.
I just wanted you to know that you were thought of and your ministry and work is prayed for daily. I asked Bro Stacey while sitting with one other preacher boy, what advice he could offer two young and dumb but faith driven preacher boys for their future in the service of God. I think you’ll agree, his response was one word followed by an explanation… “PRAY” … “Never stop praying.. He followed up later with Never pray hazy, lazy or crazy. He preached on the privilege of prayer Sunday evening, the last service of Revival. I myself know prayer works, I tested God through prayer with the birth of my second daughter, my wife was having a tough time with the pregnacy and we were worried for the procedure, it was a natural birth and when we stepped out of the car at the hospital, God stepped out with us and I couldn’t have asked for a better delivery, no complications and not even any pain for my wife, Praise the Lord we serve a good God! So you hang in there, Bro Stacey and his family sings a song “God still answers prayers” that’s exactly right!
For the redeemed on this board who don’t put much faith in prayer, why not test God. Scoffers say you can’t test God, no, you should never tempt God, but you can always test him through your faith in him. Trust me, he has “Stood the test of time”… Bible says “I can do all things through Christ Jesus which strengthens me” but it also says in Pslams “I can do nothing without him”. Instead of making God and prayer the last resort after your own works, why not try making him your first just once. “We have not because we ask not”, no problem is too great or too small that he can’t handle, and nothing is too insignificant that it isn’t worthy to ask of him. The world has become sad when we only ask God to help us with big things, and then only when we’ve exhausted every other resource. We treat him like the spare tire, take’m out whenver the others give out. We need to remember what Job said, “The Lord giveth and taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord”. He gives us all things, so we must ask of him… all things.
God bless those seeking and in Christ Jesus, Love you Bro Kent!
Gary Murray
Hi CSE,
Hope you can help, since you used to promote this dvd on your Creation Seminars:
This is off subject, but I wondered if anyone has a copy of the original RON WYATT DISCOVERED SERIES. I had a copy and someone borrowed it and lost it. When I ordered a new copy, the last part on THE ARK OF THE COVENANT was a different DVD and The Ron wyatt people said they aren’t selling that version anymore; But I really love his story about the angel. If anyone has a copy to sell, please let me know. Thanks. Katie
pabramson
Edited this on March 9th, 2008:
Also, in Dr. Hovind’s legal case there have been some good developments. But … it may yet take a year to complete the next step. That is very troubling to me. His voice (and wisdom) are badly needed. I also learned that Dr. Hovind has a couple of health concerns that need prayer. P.A.
Paul,
Can you provide any more details? The Eleventh Circuit COA has not posted any entries to the docket since Feb 22nd.
Also, did you withdraw from the IN District 8 Republican Primary? Your name is not on the list of candidates (dated March 7, 2008).
JohnLake
Ekkman, Pieter, Peter, Neo and Quasi vaticanites, trinitarians
Hebrews 4:12 (King James Version) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
rather than man trying to explain God as “a number” of any sort wouldn’t it be better to use the bible to try to explain what it is to be human? while it may never be possible to know, this verse speaks about the heart being involved with the “will of man”. If we err on the side of caution by taking as much of the bible as literally as is possible; organ transplantation has demonstrated inexplicable character/ personality/ taste transference from donor to recipient accompanied permanently with the post organ transplant experiences of living. Like NDEs in clinical death scenarios, not everyone seems to get them, but for those who do the changes/effects are substantial – and otherwise inexplicable.
this verse also speaks at there being a partition or space or potential space between ‘soul’ and ‘spirit’. I suggest that to be “unsaved” is to have the two implacably separated or the connection to be broken or dysfunctional.
to me having a soul and a spirit talks about there being at least two centers of consciousness in a human being/ human mind. this is what it is to be human.
reconciling what happens between soul and spirit is the work of the Word of God/ Holy spirit/ Jesus Christ.
rather than man being able to claim that God is three persons [a man made abstract thought] or three “man-things” [but God said I am God and not man] it makes more sense to me to “re-evaluate” what it is to be human.
I am sure, given clinical science/ psychology/ quantum physics/ theoretical physics, that “we” could expand this discussion into a thesis of a few million pages or a few million different theses pursuing different nuances to the topic.
but in the end, did you need to “know” – and if much information is given out on a “need to know” basis – did it profit a man, to know?
Psalm 29:2 (King James Version) Give unto YHVH the glory due unto his name; worship YHVH in the beauty of holiness.
God is Love – so how are your Heart, Soul, and Spirit getting on today?
EndTimes
Said this on March 6th, 2008 at 1:34pm:
Dear Ekkman,
Thank you as always for your in depth posts which relfect your studies on these issues. However, lets look at the Sabbath issue from the Bible. The trouble with Satan is that he often uses a kernal of truth that is wrapped with his own lies to deceive and in the end lead into condemnation those that are not diligent and those that are not wary. In such, the truth that the Sabbath is STILL the Sabbath and that Sunday worship as proposed by many to be the new Sabbath of the NT is not actually supported by the Scriptures. In fact, the Seventh Day Adventist correctly teach that the Sabbath has not changed. Thus, Satan has created a group of people that grab a hold of one truth about the Sabbath and then swallow all of the other lies of Satan through the false teachings of Ellen G. White. We likewise have another group that has a small understanding of some of the false teachings of the mystery Babyon system and how Christmass comes from very pagan, sun god worship. These people are called JW’s in short. Thus, the cult of SDA and JW’s hold onto a small kernal of biblical truth, but swallow all of the other false teachings that shall lead many to hell because they then do not accept the true gospel of Christ.
Forgive me, I am being beckoned by my wife and I cannot post all of the verses I wished to in defense of this statement at this time unless I should dwell on top of the roof the rest of the day. Let it suffice for now that it would be very profitable to consider just one set of Scripture for now and I will then give more examples at a later time if you and others are interested in this discussion:
Matther 5:17-19.
May God bless,
Peter
Ekkman said
God blessed the seventh day.:
• 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
• Gen. 2:3
• From reading that verse it surely seems like the seventh day is a day of rest or should be.
• God blessed the seventh day? Interesting!
• Surely this will bear witness with the whole word of God if we are to rest, worship, sanctify the seventh day. Let’s keep reading to find out whether or not this is for all to keep forever or even all time.
Now let’s read about the sabbath day in context in the 10 Commandments.
• 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
• 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
• 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
• 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
• Exodus 20:8-11
:So I see that we are to labor six days and rest on the seventh
• I ask people are you working six days and resting on the seventh?
• I didn’t ask you are you working five days and resting two or working four days and resting three or any other amount?
• So once again, are you working six days and resting on the seventh?
Some more thoughts to think about. So think!:
• 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
• Exodus 31:16
:• It is a perpetual covenant between who? The children of Israel and God.
• First we see that the “church, the body of Christ” did not exist at this time.
• We know that others did exist and they weren’t under the sabbath day teaching unless they are living with the Israelites
• Let’s look at Exodus 20:10 again in the Ten Commandments to see something else.:
Exodus 20:10
• 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
:• The Lord God is speaking to the nation of Israel and he includes those who are living within their gates or with them. He did not say that the whole world is included in this covenant.:
• Let’s see what else we can find out about the sabbath day teaching.
The new testament is in the old testament concealed. The old testament is in the new testament revealed.
• The Lord Jesus Christ said:
• “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
• “And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
• John 5:39.40
• Now the sabbath in the new testament.
• Heb 4:2 “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”
• Faith pleases God as we see in Heb 11:6
When we enter into the true sabbath, we enter into the rest of God.
• Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
• Sabbath means rest. Those who have believed the gospel entered into the sabbath (rest) of God. Not they will but they have.
• 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
• 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
• We see the sabbath and rest being tied together time and time again.
Faith pleases God!
• 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
• The Jews were doing the sabbath thing but they didn’t enter in because of unbelief. They were under the law but not under faith. They stumbled at the stumbling stone, the Lord Jesus Christ.
• 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
• Harden hearts cause us not to enter into the rest of God. Acts shows me that the Lord is purifying their hearts by faith. Ck.Acts 15:9
• 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
• 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:4-9
• The full complete rest for God’s people at the end of time as we know it.
• 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
• 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
• (Heb 4:10, 11)
• We cease from our own work & labor to enter into the rest of God and that work is to walk in faith, submitting to God and resisting the devil.•
“Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;” (I Thess 1:3)
“…purifying their hearts by faith.”
Acts 15:9
• What I am saying is that we enter in the rest, the sabbath of God when we enter into the Lord Jesus Christ and walk in faith, trusting him to be our sufficiency, our hope, our life, our everything.
• The New Testament repeats all of the Ten Commandments but one and that is the sabbath since we don’t keep one day holy, sanctified we keep all days holy as we walk in Christ Jesus.
• 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
• 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
• Col. 2:16,17
• The reality is the body of Christ. He is our sabbath, our hope, our life.
• 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
• 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
• Romans 14:5,6
`And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23
• The law is a collective whole. Just as the sabbath day teaching is a part of the law so is not eating certain meats.The word of God says now.
• “3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
• 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
• 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
• We know that the Jews could not eat certain meats but the word makes it plain here that all meats are sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”
•When a cop pulls you over for speeding. You can tell him all that you want, that you have kept all the law in America. But when you were pulled over, you broke the law.
• Take for instance, James 2:10 says, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
• So those who break any part of the law have broken all of the law. It is a collective whole.
• After saying that, I will now say this. The law never saved nor could save. BUT…
• …the law is important. It plays a major role in our lives. It helps to keep the world straight, at least in the outward works if not in the inner thoughts.
• The reason for all of this. If we are under the sabbath and we deliberately break it then it would be the same as committing adultery. If you can break one law then you can break others too and be fine. They all tie together unless the Lord negated the day, hence we are not under it anymore.
Now to sum it up.
• If we are still under the sabbath law which is a part of the law just as not eating certain meats is a part of the law then those who do not keep the sabbath law are breaking it, hence it is rebellion and sin.
• Since I do not believe that we are under the sabbath law, then I don’t keep it or even try to. I do things on the sabbath as I do on any other day of the week. I don’t put one day above another. I believe that Jesus Christ is my sabbath, not will be but is. I believe that he fulfilled the rest, and the power to walk in holiness not one day of the week but each and every day. He fulfills the sabbath in every way. I don’t look for one day to keep holy and to rest on. I accomplish the rest and the holiness as I walk in Jesus Christ.
I am playing with words in this post to some degree but I feel that it is needed. There is a lot more to be said but this will get us started. As I tell others, the truth sets us free. If you are right on your sabbath views then that will set me free, if I am right on the sabbath then it will set you free.
Ekkman
Phillip-George,
All I know to say since you don’t seem to like “my cutting and pasting past comments” is: “I hope you remember what you said since it doesn’t seem that you remember what I say. If your last post was to me regarding “the three persons”. I have said it time and time again. “If I have used the term “three persons” it wasn’t intentional. I believe in a three in one God as the word says. I don’t get down on people who use the term “three persons”. I just don’t use it myself. It is like you mentioned with Rudd, that he wasn’t perfect. I never thought he was. I just made one short comment on him not beleving in a rapture. I liked a lot of things he said in his book that I Christian brother has shown me. I was not downplaying everything he said. I didn’t he cut him for not believing in a rapture evne though it sure seemed like he was “downplaying” those who did believe in one. Enough for now!
Ekkman
4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 8th, 2008 at 12:56pm:
To Ekkman,
Ekkman said this on March 5th, 2008 at 11:12pm
What I see from all the Sabbath stuff. Jesus is my Sabbath, my rest.
Dear Ekkman
Your question re: Heb. 3:12 – 4:11 “To SDA’s. Please tell me the parts of the book above that I quoted out of is not true. Thanks”
The main purpose of the passage found in Heb. 3:12 – 4:11 is to motivate believers to be faithful. This can be confirmed by reading Psa 95. The “rest” refers to the blessing of salvation we receive as we become saved in Christ. There is nothing in the text concerning a new type of Sabbath observance that replaces the literal observance of the fourth commandment.
If on the other hand your interpretation were to be correct, the Bible would be in clear contradiction with itself! Please examine the following text: Isa 66:22-23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.”
I hope you can see the issue here. If Jesus is your Sabbath, and replaces the literal observance of the fourth commandment, then Isa 66:22-23 stands in error because it explicitly tells us that the Sabbath will STILL be observed even in the new Earth!!!
So when you actually think about it, it’s your interpretation that brings the Word of God in error! Because I believe, just like Kent Hovind, that the Bible contains no contradictions, in spite of the false accusations that Peter Laird propagates against SDA!
Please study your Bible carefully, and you will see the matter becomes obvious.
Love
Pieter
Ekkman said:
Pieter, I am a little confused based on what you are telling me here and what you said to praybird.
“4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 8th, 2008 at 6:20am:
“Dear praybird
———————————————————————————————————————————–
(((Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:)))))
This says that we are not to judge no man of the sabbath days, please read for yourself, this is what you are doing, to people in this blog. This scripture means exactly what it says.
———————————————————————————————————————————–
In the Bible, when it talks about “the sabbaths and the new moons” it refers to the annual Jewish feast days, not the seventh day Sabbath! Please look at the following verses: 1Ch 23:31, 2Ch2:4 , 2Ch 8:13 , 2Ch 31:3 , Neh 10:33
This is what Paul refers to in Col 2:16. This is basic Bible knowledge.
Love
Pieter”
So Pieter, you are using the same “new moon and sabbaths” to show me that the weekly sabbaths will be in force but you tell praygirl that they are not even talking about weekly sabbaths in Col 2:16 even though both places talks about “new moons and sabbaths”. Am I following you correctly? In case you are not following what I am saying, I will post the verses that you used with me in Isa. 66:22,23
“22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
“23 And it shall come to pass, that from one moon to another, and from one sabbath to another shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
“24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
I tied in v. 24 since it was the last verse in that chapter and it is to do with hell. Anyway, the verses that you submitted to me which were vs 22,23 says, “new moon and sabbath”. So based on what you were telling praygirl this has nothing to do with weekly sabbaths, right?
V. 24 in Isa. 66 reminds me of Jesus’ words in Mark 9:42-50
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
If the fire is only temporary then I would rather burn for a few minutes than live without my eyes, hands, or feet the whole time I am living on planet earth. If you know what I mean?
Ekkman
Since we are and will be getting into Jewish and Christian works or whatever, I thought I would share a couple of pages that I have on my homepage. I will give you a little of the article and then the link to go and check it out completely.
The Jerusalem Council and ECT
by Floyd McElveen, 1134 Hwy 42 East, Petal, MS 39465
Imagine we are back at the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15).
Two leaders of their respective factions have been listening closely. Jabez, a member of the sect of the “Pharisees which believed,” stubbornly insists “that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” He concurred heartily with the men who came down from Jerusalem who taught this with thunderous authority.
Jabez believed in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. He was also thoroughly convinced that trusting Christ plus being circumcised and keeping the law was necessary to be saved.
Tertius was a Gentile convert who had grown rapidly in the Lord. He was one of Paul’s converts, and his heart sang with joy to know that his sins were forgiven.
Because of his effervescent personality, he attracted many who were in agreement with his trust in Christ alone for salvation.
Jabez and his crowd, and Tertius and his group focused all their attention on Paul, Barnabas, some of the sect of the Pharisees, Peter and James as they spoke.
THE DISCUSSION
A great multitude had gathered to hear this watershed debate and decision. Many smaller debates and hot discussions had raged throughout the excited crowd. Word had spread of the disputes and heated arguments engulfing Paul and Barnabas. Some of the men which came down from Judea, and certain of the Pharisees, had privately pressed their attack on grace, especially challenging Paul and Barnabas. Salvation by faith alone in Christ alone rent their tradition asunder. They believed in Jesus Christ but Paul’s extreme view seemed to deny Moses and the Scripture.
The disputing was intense until Peter arose. All listened intently to this man who had always been a chief spokesperson. “Men and brethren Peter began, “ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us: and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
Then Bamabas and Paul declared what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles as they preached Christ and His free salvation to them. The thrill of this good news was overwhelming, yet the final verdict had not been given.
THE DECISION
The short wait seemed unbearable. Then James spoke up. “Men and brethren, hearken unto me. . .” Every eye was riveted on James, every ear attuned to his words. After an introductory statement, finally James gives the decision. “Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble them not, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God. . .”
No circumcision, no law, no works added to trust in Christ in order to be saved! The salvation of the Gentiles who trusted Christ alone was valid!
Letters were to be sent to those Gentiles in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia who had been particularly besieged by the Judaizers. They were out from under circumcision and the law. Christ, yes Christ alone saves!
Some who were assembled at Jerusalem praised God with great joy. Some shed tears. Some, however, were strangely silent. The multitude slowly dispersed. The issue was forever settled.
Well . . . not exactly. At least, not for many of the zealous Pharisees and Judaizers.
Tertius and his group of happy, rejoicing believers were near Jabez and his somewhat somber “Pharisees which believed.”
Some in this crowd seemed stunned. Others looked puzzled. Many were angry or chagrined (aggravated, embarassed, shamed, annoyed, dismayed, disrtressed).
“Well,” said Tertius to Jabez courteously, but with an air of finality, that settles it! No circumcision and no law-keeping is necessary for salvation.
An angry chorus of dissent swelled up behind Jabez. “Who does Paul think he is?” cried out one angry voice.
“James is just taking the side of Paul and Barnabas against Moses and the Scriptures,” clamored another.
Jabez waved them to a reluctant, if muttering, semi-silence. He and Tertius recognized each other as they had both been present at some of the fierce arguments Paul and Barnabas had with the Judaizers. In fact, Jabez, one of their scholars, had participated in those encounters.
“Dear brother Tertius,” Jabez began with his most mellifluous (harmonous, rich, flowing, smooth) voice, his face adorned with a warm smile. “This has in truth been a climactic decislon given to us by God through James. We thank God for him and for our wonderful brothers Paul and Barnabas! Let us sit down with each other and discuss the ramifications of this decision as brothers in Christ should.”
Taken aback by his warm demeanor and friendly offer, Tertius hesitated. He was a little apprehensive. Jabez had quite a reputation as a scholar of the Hebrew scriptures. Even the learned Gamaliel had great respect for him. Paul had found him to be a formidable antagonist indeed. Yet, Tertius reasoned, the decision had gone against him and his followers.
THE LURE…
http://www.ekkcom.net/jerusalem.htm
Ekkman said:
You need to click on the link to read the rest… I hope you are curious by now. What is the lure and where will it take him?
Ekkman
[i]Red: But Mom, the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor last week! The President is calling for volunteers to join the war effort. I’ve got to go!
(…)
Red: Mom, if I don’t go, they may come to attack us here. I’ve got to go to protect you, Sis, and our country. We didn’t start this fight but we’ve been attacked. There is no other choice now. We must fight to defend ourselves. [/i]
Has Kent Hovind changed his mind regarding Pearl Habour (and 9/11 and the Great Depression etc) being the work of nefarious New World Order conspiracy?
Now this one has some bone, gristle, fat and other things mixed in with the meat. So watch for it as you read. We are born with the ability to spit and we are born again with the ability to spit the spiritual junk out.
“MIDRASH: THE CAMEL’S NOSE
What do we need the term Midrash for? Is it an extra-Biblical knowledge that one cannot gain from the Bible itself, or is it a fancy name for something all Bible scholars know anyway? I declare that this “Midrash” (being one of the latest fads among the exponents of the Hebrew Roots Movement) is just “the camel’s nose”; and as the Bedouin parable goes: if the camel is allowed to stick his nose in the tent, before long, the whole camel will be in the tent. The “camel” in my illustration is the newest attempt at Judaizing Christianity by the exponents of the Hebrew Roots Movement.
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
First, we are just being asked to acknowledge the “possible” superiority of the Jewish system of interpretation (midrash) in contrast to the so-called “obvious” flaws in the Protestant system of Biblical interpretation. Next, we are asked to consider how pleasing to God it would be if we would just observe a few of the feasts of the Old Testament: They say, “After all, they were instituted by God!”. Having gone that far, it is only another inch away to have an altar of incense in your own church, and while you’re at it, why not blow a shofar to announce the beginning of the next revival? (All of these things are now and already being done by some supposedly orthodox Protestant churches).
BUT WAIT! If you are going to attempt to be faithful to a more primitive and “purer” exercise of your faith, you might as well go all the way. Whatsoever you do, do with all of your might, right? Don’t you think it would be good if you men would cover your head when you are in worship, as they do in every synagogue and in many “messianic” congregations? And don’t forget that we are already being reminded that Jesus Himself wore a prayer shawl. You do want to look like Jesus, don’t you?
Now that you have entered the realm of serious reverence and observation of the “holy”, don’t you think that you should honor Yeshua by His correct name? Oh! That might be Yehoshua or Yehoshea; SORRY, I can’t remember what they’re calling Him this week. And while you’re at it, G-d is the proper spelling for the title of deity; please do not transgress by actually spelling it out like so many irreverent slugs have done in the past: how pretentious of them that they dare to pronounce the “ineffable vowel”!
Have you heard yet what those Christian scholars have done to your Bible? They HAVE LIED TO YOU! They didn’t tell you that your New Testament was originally written in Hebrew (not Greek): and THAT (of course) is why you don’t really understand it! Don’t worry, you will soon be able to get your own copy of the New Testament that has been reconstituted back into the Hebrew from the Greek and then retranslated back into English for you. And don’t forget: Sabbath starts at sun-down on Friday.
Hey! How did that camel get into my tent?
BUT IT’S ONLY THE CAMEL’S NOSE!…”
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Articles_V/midrash.html
Ekkman said:
What the big deal about a nose? It is such a small thing. Click the link to see what a nose can do for you. Or is it against you?
Ekkman
for Jesus’ name: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on March 7th, 2008 at 5:06am:
Ekkman, Welders Wife, Trinitarians, neo vaticanites, SDA’s,
rather than trying to reduce God to three persons,…
Ekkman said:
I hope this tiny “cut and paste” doesn’t upset you. I just wanted to show you why I figured that you were talking to me since you bring up the three persons again. I have never said that he was three persons that I know of in years. Anyway, since I was first on the list above, I figured that you must mean that I have said that God is three persons and I haven’t that I know of. I am not trying to reduce God to anything, I just believe his word and what he tells me in it. I talk English so I type English, he is God, Jehovah, Jesus. All English words, I am not trying to show people how smart I am by putting forth Hebrew or Greek words, they are not needed. I like English so I use it. I am willing to use a little of it to prove a point, such as we have the perfect bible in the English language, the KJV.
Ekkman
for Jesus’ name: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on March 10th, 2008 at 5:01pm:
Ekkman, Pieter, Peter, Neo and Quasi vaticanites, trinitarians
…
Psalm 29:2 (King James Version) Give unto YHVH the glory due unto his name; worship YHVH in the beauty of holiness.
God is Love – so how are your Heart, Soul, and Spirit getting on today?
Ekkman said:
Phillip-George, I couldn’t find that in my KJV. I can read the words in mine and it says, “2 Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.”
If you really like talking Hebrew, as Welder’s wife says, “Learn it”. If you put the vowels that are missing in your translation, it would be “Yehovah”. I prefer the English translation of it, “Jehovah”.
My heart, soul, and spirit is doing fine but God is more than love, he is just, jealous, holy and reverend is his name. He is pure, righteous, all-knowing, all-powerful, everywhere present, he is God!
Ekkman
Dear Ekkman,
The reality that the law is and always shall be is a different topic than stating that we are still UNDER the law. Of a truth, we cannot ignore even one Scripture and Matthew 5:17-19 should make us all pause for at least a moment to note and understand what our relationship is to the law. So, I am not in the least disagreeing that we are no longer in the new covenant UNDER the law, but yet, the law itself has not and will not change including that of the Sabbath day especially.
Now, partly in response to a comment I made to Welder’s Wife on my wish that I could find a congregation that worshipped on that day. Please let me qualify this a little bit. It would be Baptist or Baptistic congregation that spoke from the King James Bible, yet also recognized that the Sabbath was ordained not by the law, but by that of the creation. I will try to do an in depth post tomorrow to show this position.
Now, I go to a congretation that worships on Sunday and Wednesday. I likewise do not “keep” the Sabbath in such as when I had tried to do this, it imposed a burden upon my family that did not share my conviction for the Sabbath. In such, I imposed a bondage to something that is not to be imposed in the NT. Thus, for my family, I note in my heart the matter of what the Sabbath is, yet for fellowship, I worship with those of like mind on Sunday.
I hope that this clarifies a little better my position. I am thus, not imposing the worship on the Sabbath, but simply pointing out that the common teaching in many churches that the Sabbath has changed from Saturday to Sunday is not true.
I beg of you to give me one more day to place a detailed exposition of this. Romans chapter 14 is the operative set of Scriptures for how we are to all together worship in our heart to our own master based on those beliefs that we hold. It is not for us to judge any man on what day they shall hold before their master. Thus, if it is your conviction to worship on Sunday for various reasons, that is between you and your master alone.
Yet, I would hope that Matthew 5:17-19 would provoke many to reexamine this issue as it is of great importance as so noted by the Lord Jesus Himself. In such, the this discussion is something that we should seek to edify and not vilify. The SDA doctrine of the Sabbath as the “seal of God” is a rank heresy since it is the Holy Spirit that seals us at the time we are born again.
I usually do not even discuss this issue due to the fact that so many people do have strong beliefs one way or the other and we are to avoid doubtful disputations. Nevertheless, with the advent of a new visitor that has taken up residence here and is now espousing false SDA doctrines in a false parade of being true Christianity has led me to go outside of the box I usually keed myself to alone on this issue.
Thus, in closing, I would be most greatful to hear what it is that you make of Matthew 5:17-19. It made me pause and puzzle and study for several months and in the end it was this one set of verses that led me to the prophetic understanding of Leviticus chapter 23 and the seven feast days. I would not in the least diminish the prophetic and spiritual applications of understanding Matthew 5:17-19. I do believe that further discussion on this topic will be of benefit to many.
May God bless,
Peter
Dear EndTimes and praybird
Peter, I do not doubt your sincerity. Thank you for sharing with me from the Word. You defend the truth as you know it. I respect that. Please let me shed some light on the following.
Did you know there were two separate and distinct laws given in the O.T.? The Ten Commandment Law (written by the finger of God) and the ceremonial law (written by the hand of Moses). It’s ok if you don’t want to believe me, but I hope you believe the Bible.
Deu 4:13-14 “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. “AND” the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.” So you have the Ten Commandments from God and the statutes and judgements by Moses.
2Ki 21:8 “Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, “AND” according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.” Two separate laws! The law that God commanded them and the law that Moses commanded them.
Now of course the Ten Commandments were placed INSIDE the ark of the covenant, right? So let’s see what the Bible says about the ceremonial law.
Deu 31:24-36 “And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law IN A BOOK, until they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness AGAINST thee.”
According to this passage we see the following. The ceremonial law was written by Moses. It was written in a book. It is called “the book of the law”. It was placed in the side of the ark of the covenant. It was against (contrary) to us. I hope you’re taking notes!
So it becomes clear now that there were two distinct laws. The Ten Commandment law and the ceremonial law or law of Moses. These two laws serves separate purposes as well.
The Ten Commandment law tells us what sin is. “for sin is the transgression of the law.” 1Jn 3:4. This is the perfect everlasting law of God. Psa 111:7-8 “The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.” Mat 5:18 “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” This law is also known as the royal law or law of liberty. Jas 2:8 “If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well” Jas 2:12 “So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.”
The ceremonial law (book of the law) tells us what our part in sin is. It points the finger to us and thus, it is against us (contrary to us). It also points us to the solution, which is Jesus. Heb 10:1 “For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.” Col 2:17 “Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” So the “ceremonial law” or “the book of the law” or ” the law of Moses” was a type of “shadow” of good things to come (Jesus)
This ceremonial law (law of Moses) prescribed sacrifices, festivals, and ceremonial ordinances that were symbolic of Jesus. Paul states that this law ended when it was nailed to the cross. Col 2:13-14 “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross”
Now, lets look at Col 2:16-17 “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
The “sabbath days” Paul was talking about, were a number of annual sabbath days that were completely separate and distinct from the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments. You can find the list in Lev 23. Those sabbaths were called the annual Jewish sabbaths. If you read Lev 23 you can clearly see that these sabbath days were part of the ceremonial law which would come to an end with Christ’s crucifixion.
So Paul was not talking of the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments!
Heb 10:16-22 “This is the “COVENANT” that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put “MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS”, and “IN THEIR MINDS WILL I WRITE THEM”; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the “BLOOD OF JESUS”, By a “NEW AND LIVING WAY”, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having a high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.”
Jesus will write His Ten Commandment on our hearts. This does not mean that we will be able to keep them perfectly. That is not the purpose. The purpose is to love His Commandments. All of them. And to obey them. Not to try and be righteous, but because we love Christ! As it is written “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” Joh 14:15
So what happens if we do transgress His law. You will grieve the Holy Spirit, causing you to have a guilty conscience, because His law is now written in your heart. But here is the good news! 1Jn 2:1-2 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1Jn 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1Jn 2:3-6 “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”
Jesus did more than just die for us. He set an example for us to follow. He kept the Ten Commandments. So should we. Because we love Him.
God bless all
Pieter
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Hmmm ... you stated "two types": the Ten Commandments, and then all else as ceremonial law. I have not heard of such a delineation before.
Moral, Ceremonial, and Dietary - those are the THREE types of laws given in the Pentateuch, as I understand. Is this not correct? (The Ten Commandments is a summary being within the moral laws, of course.)
Jesus later gave us two commandments as a summary, of the summary, correct?
Matthew 22:37-40 "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
(…All EXCEPT for the Ten Commandments…?) Again, Jesus said: “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
I thank the Lord that my guardian angels (Psalm 91:11) do not all take the Sabbath off.
“Gabriel, gotta clock out now. A lot of overtime this week, with Abramson, huh? I’m looking forward to this Sabbath. He may be a saint but he sure can keep an angel busy watching over his thoughts, let me tell you!”
(But perhaps angels, being above man, are not bound to our Scriptures; even though God set the example of the Sabbath Himself, and Jesus as well normally kept the Sabbath when in human form.)
The Father works. John 5:17 “But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.” And Jesus works. (One thing He is doing at this time is making future homes for the saints. John 14:2 )
====
Pieter, every Bible believer needs to learn and have confidence in the Word. I can tell you from experience that ENDTIMES definitely believes the Word. But you stated: “It’s ok if you don’t want to believe me, but I hope you believe the Bible.”
I noticed that your initial volleys in this debate included insults. …Well, I do that too sometimes. But let’s try to refrain from that. Particularly once it is clear that the other person very well DOES assert the authority of Scripture. And some would contend that your assertions and the clear teachings of Scripture do not always coincide.
John 5:16-18 “And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”
Having the “final word” would be nice. But I am one who is still learning. I learn a lot from watching the debates within this blog.
Romans 15:4 “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.”
Proverbs 1:5 “A wise [man] will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels.” P.A. ]
Stop the Pollution!
We need to save the earth and stop the pollution. It is ruining our society. We need to get the garbage, the unclean materials, and the mess out of our lives. Recycling is the key to bring about results in man’s way. There are many ways to clean up some of the worst pollution in life. We can outwardly look good by doing the right things such as not cussing, smoking, drinking, partying, messing around, etc. and we will look like we have our act together to some but deep down we know that we don’t.
In other words, we can turn over a new leaf but that doesn’t give us a new life. There is one who can clean up the really bad junk in life. He is the master at recycling. He wants to bring us through his recycling process when we repent and turn to him for life. He cleans us up and gives us a brand new heart, which in turn empowers us, delivers us from the pollution in this world. Many different forms of this pollution are destroying our lives. These things are to do with the heart and mind. Because of these forms of pollution we have ever so many other problems that will go away as the mind is being cleaned up by the word of God.
Drug addicts, homosexuals, murderers, thieves, liars, adulterers, fornicators, drunks, con artists, have all been delivered from this sort of pollution when they gave their lives to Jesus Christ. But the pollution goes deeper than this. Deception is a form of pollution. We can be deceived into thinking that we have our act together by our own ability and strength. Those who are housewives, husbands, welfare workers, doctors, nurses, businessmen and others that are good in society seem to think that they are all right. We are not good in ourselves, the bible says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All need the cleansing blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. Sin within all of us is the problem that kills and all the outward acts of good won’t solve the problem.
In reality, his cleansing is better that recycling. Jesus makes us new inside when he gives us a new heart, spirit. He comes into our lives and takes up residence and delivers us from things that hold us down, destroy us. This occurs when we turn from sin and receive his forgiveness, his cleansing and empowering. He is the master creator as well as the master organizer. The Lord Jesus Christ sets things in order as we submit to him.
If Christ Jesus is going to make a new heaven and a new earth and he is, then he most certainly can make your earth better right now. He wants to deal with the worst pollution there is, that is the pollution in your heart and mind. So ask him in faith for the forgiveness, the cleansing that you need so you can walk victoriously over sin.
Ekkman
EndTimes,
I forgot to mention that I do not believe Sunday is the new sabbath. I believe Jesus is my sabbath not any day of the week now. I think I did say it before but I am not sure.
We have had church meetings on just about any and every day of the week. I am not picky. As I said before, I don’t seek to put one day above another.
Ekkman
Ekkman,
But when you were pulled over, you broke the law. >> well maybe you didn’t break “law”, you broke “legislation” if you were contractually obligated under that legislation via a valid social contract.
the “law” suggests that when there is no victim, there is no crime; and when there is no evidence of a complaining party [along with a second witness] then there is no transgression.
this is what is so odious about all this “quasi criminal stuff”. if the man stole then specifically from whom? If there is a victim why weren’t they present in court? If someone has suffered loss then why wasn’t the perpetrator given an opportunity to make amends and repay the debt, even up to seven time what they stole.
Law is based on precepts that shall remain while heaven and earth remain. Legislation meanwhile could call two men “married”, or transgender, or “sulphur crested cockatoos”. The further it gets from reality the more likely the society is going to “show signs” such as of teenagers suiciding to get away from lawyers who make money defending insanity.
my participation in CSEblogs is part of a suicide prevention initiative.
by the way “Truth makes free”, it does not set free, because truth never held a man captive in delusional states of believing lies [such as macromorphic abiogenesis initiated evolution]
Ekkman, Peter,
you believe in a three in one God as the Word says; but there is no verse that “puts it” as you claim here.
but if you insist on three, then three what? the closest one gets to such a saying is simply acknowledging that there is Father, there is Son of God, there is Holy Spirit. These “are” three witnesses. But I maintain, in all humility, that there is but “one mind” in one God head, “one voice”, and but “one image” to behold. [you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father]
the LORD said to my Lord [as you quoted] speaks of “God here and God everywhere”.
what I am suggesting is that because “we” are made in God’s image and that God said “let us make man in our image” that every individual human being has a “plurality of being” also that has to be preserved or that “man” dies
God, save our souls, means keep our souls with our spirits, even your spirit, forever. Let the soul and the spirit agree to live together forever. let them be married through the washing of the Holy Immutable Word of God, and cleansed via the sanctifying blood of Jesus Christ.
My statement is that minds are made with at least two centres of consciousness and that the two “should be” singing the same songs in perfect harmony.
the Nicean Council created a pitfall. I would with these words place neon flashing hazard lights all around the edge of that pit. So might you examine your heart and see if these things be true.
God, try my heart and see if there be any wicked way within me. Selah.
For my Brothers/Sisters in Christ at CSE blogs:
With all of the discussions going on with the name of God, the Sabbath, and the law, I wanted to repost this link to an article on An Expose on the Hebrew Roots/Sacred Name Movement since it might be helpful to some on this blog. I hope it will be a blessing to you and keep you from stumbling:
http://www.hopeofisrael.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=535&Itemid=30
We are all prone to fall into this trap (keeping part of the law) of satan, as I have, and need to heed these verses the Lord gave us to rebuke and correct us:
Galations 5:
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love in Christ Jesus,
Millerfamily6
For those Christian brethren that love God’s chosen people, the Jews, and have a heart for them:
Here is a wonderful website that is a ministry to the Jewish people: http://www.hopeofisrael.net/
EndTimes,
I say that he fulfilled the Sabbath law. My rest and holiness is in him. He is my everything.
Ekkman
Samphire,
Here is the astronomer’s reply to your last few questions.
> 1. In relation to what is the universe rotating?
The universe is bounded, so with respect to the third heaven, that which
is outside the universe.
> 2. What is the rate of rotation?
The period 23 hrs 56 min. (Matter in the universe is not uniformly
distributed so that the entire firmament has a slight vibration. The axis
of the vibration is offset 23.5 degrees from the rotational axis, has a
period of a year and a semi-amplitude of 93 million miles, which is only
0.00000000000002% the size of the universe. The firmament, being some
10^123 [a one followed by 123 zeroes] times more massive than the
universe,
imposes the vibration on the universe).
> 3. Where is the axis of rotation?
From north through south celestial poles.
> 4. If light travels at different speeds in different directions as
> dictated by your hypothesis why do we not see the effect?
I hypothesize no such effect; Relativity does and neatly accounts for it,
but I don’t need it anymore than I need it to explain why the speed of
sound is the same in the air trapped inside a Concorde. We do observe
differences in the speed of light which in the far-reaches of the universe
can be a dozen times that of the speed of light near earth. The speed of
light depends, among other things, on the strength of the local
gravitational field.
> 5. How come the Michelson-Morley experiment does not detect the rotation?
In the present geometries there is no way to determine rotation by the
Michelson-Morley apparatus; it is set up to measure revolution, not
rotation. The corresponding experiment to measure rotation instead of
revolution, is the Sagnac experiment. It does measure a relative rotation
of 23 hours 56 minutes. The experiment cannot distinguish whether the
earth rotates and the firmament does not or the firmament rotates and the
earth does not, or even if the earth rotates eastwardly in 36 hours and
the firmament rotates westwardly once every 12 hours, or any such
combination you care to think of.
Relativity was invented because the earth was expected to orbit the sun,
but the M-M experiment showed it does not. Since everyone “knows” that
the earth orbits the sun, and that geocentricity is “unthinkable” (the
very word used at the time), it must mean that the length apparatus of the
M-M experiment must shrink in the direction of the earth’s orbit. It took
most of 20 years for the rival theories to come up with an obscure enough
explanation to account for that observed fact. General Relativity,
promoted as capable of being understood by only a handful of people,
finally won the day.
Ekkman
Ekkman
Said this on March 11th, 2008 at 9:04am:
EndTimes,
I say that he fulfilled the Sabbath law. My rest and holiness is in him. He is my everything.
Ekkman
Dear Ekkman,
Once again, thank you for your comments. I would only add that the Sabbath as part of the law is a shadow of good things to come, but the body is of Christ. Thus, the light of Jesus through the law casting HIs shadow preshades prophetically many things that are to come. Yes, indeed, Jesus is our rest and our glory, but just as Jesus is our passover when He died on the cross as the Lamb of God and just as He is the firstfruits when He arose on the third day, and just as He will fulfill the day of trumpets at the rapture and the day of atonement when He comes for his children in Israel, so likewise the Sabbath actually points to the 1000 year rest from Satan in the millenium. In such, as the shadow of the law and the body of Christ, the Sabbath is not yet completed prophetically. We have 1007 plus years left for this to be fulfilled. I thus look at hebrews 4:8-9 in a literal sense of speaking on the seventh day in this wise as it states previously in that chapter. In fact, all 10 of the ten commandments are repeated in the NT.
Once again, I would hope that this is for edification and not vilification of the Sabbath issue.
May God bless,
Peter
Dear Ekkman,
Let’s explore the Sabbath issue in more detail.
1) When did God establish the Sabbath:
Answer: Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath was hallowed, set aside, or sanctified and ordained as a day of rest and worship of the LORD God Almighty in honour of Him as our Creator.
Sanctify Definition: To separate, set apart or appoint to a holy, sacred or religious use.
Therefore, Genesis 2:1-3 establishes the Sabbath or seventh day as more than simply a day of rest, it is a day SET APART AND APPOINTED TO A HOLY, SACRED OR RELIGIOUS USE. I do not see any verse anywhere that God abrogated that commandment. Thus, the commandment to establish the Sabbath as the seventh day which is set aside, set apart and appointed for Holy, Sacred and religious use is thus, STILL in effect today.
2) What did God establish in regards to the Sabbath with the law of Moses as delivered in the ten commandements?
Answer: God REESTABLISHED the Sabbath that had fallen out of habit, use and honour of those that He had created. We know this of a certainty in the manner in which God spoke the fourth commandment. If we look closely, Exodus 20:11 is the SAME exact sentence as we see in Genesis 2:3. Take a look and remember those wonderful days of old in high school where we spent many hours in English class diagramming sentence structures and rearranging a sentence by changing the order of noun, verb, predicate and subject, yet indeed they were still the same exact sentence conveying the exact meaning as the original.
I would simply have all do this simple exercise once again starting with an outline of subject, verb, predicate in Genesis 2:3 and then likewise for Exodus 20:11. The surprising finding is that God has repeated Genesis 2:3 in exact detail in Exodus 20:11. Thus, even by the law of Moses and the ten commandments, we are once again pointed back to the Creation and the Creator.
God now by law and decree has established that which His creation had failed to keep and honour even though God clearly set this aside as a commandment from the first week of creation. Likewise, when Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees on the issue of divorce, He brought them back not to Mount Sinai, but instead back to the creation. ( Matthew 19:3-8) Thus, we do have many such examples of God going back to the original state of His creation above and beyond that which is decreed in the law.
3) Did God establish a NEW Sabbath in the NT?
Answer: Many apologist’s use Acts 20:7 and I Cor 16:1-2 as proof texts to so state that Sunday is now the “new” Sabbath. However, do these verses establish or simply report the events of that day on Acts 20:7? Taken alone, out of context of the rest of the book of Acts, one could make an argument of this as many have done. Yet, in the NT we truly only have these two verses. In Acts 20:7, they did indeed on that specific day come together to break bread and worship. What is the second witness of worship on Sunday in the NT? Actually, we don’t have one other than the LORD arising on the first day. Yet, this is actually in fulfillment of the 3rd feast day of Leviticus chapter 23, the feast of firstfruits on the “morrow” after the Sabbath. Yet in the book of Acts, there is a second witness of when the followers of Jesus came together to break bread: Acts 2:26 where we find that they came together in one accord DAILY and broke bread together. Thus, for the issue of when did the early Christians come together to break bread, the only two witnesses of this is Acts 2:46 and Acts 20:7. Thus, we are confronted not with simply Sunday worship alone with the breaking of bread, but actually DAILY.
Therefore, Acts 20:7 appears to simply be an act of reporting the events on that specific day and does not meet the criteria of establishing a day of worship on Sunday specifically since we do not have two or three witnesses of this. Yet, some would contend that I Cor 16 :1-2 is that second witness. Unfortunately for this doctrine and use of this as a second witness, these verse do not speak at all of worship or gathering on Sunday or the breaking of bread. Instead, it states that the individual members of the church are to “lay in store” or simply “set aside” a portion of that which God has prospered them. I take this as to set aside within the confines of your own home. I do not see any admonition to bring it to a central collection area as many try to insert into the meaning of this verse. Take a closer look at the language of I Cor 16:2:
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him. . .
Thus, the “him” as the subject of this sentence is not the pastor or bishop of the church, but instead it is the one that is laying aside and that is the same “him” that was prospered. Therefore, this is a direct commandment not to come together in any stretch of the imagination on Sunday with offerings in hand, but instead it is a commandment to store, or secure or hide aside a portion of an offering within the confines of their individual household as God has prospered that individual member that week. I do believe that many have not faithfully represented the clarity of this simple statement. Yes, it is indeed important to pay attention to the pronouns and subjects in these verses. Therefore, I Cor 16:1-2 cannot be the second witness of Acts 20:7 of which we already have a second witness on the breaking of bread DAILY. Therefore, we do not have any establishment of a “new” Sabbath on Sunday by these verses.
4) When did Paul openly worship the majority of the time as documented in the Acts of the Apostles:
Answer: Overwhelmingly, it was the Sabbath both for the Jews AND the Gentiles that he preached to them the gospel of Christ.
Examples: Acts 13:14, Acts 13:27, Acts 13:42 and 44 (Note that this was for assembly of the Gentiles), Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13 (Note that this was the day that Paul chose to pray and preach to the Gentile woman who gathered at the river that day), Acts 17:2 (As Paul’s manner was), Acts 18:4.
Thus, if we are going to try to use Acts 20:7 as a proof text of the Sunday “Sabbath” then we would indeed be hypocritical to ignore the many examples where the believers after the resurrection of Christ came together on the Sabbath for worship with both the Jews and the Gentiles. Thus, with Acts 20:7, we have NO second witness, yet with the many verses above, there is quite ample evidence of Paul worshipping on the Sabbath. If we were to rate the strength of the evidence for continuing worship on the seventh day or a new day of worship on Sunday, we would have to in such conclude that the book of Acts would point to the continued worship of Christ on the Holy Sabbath and that we do not find two or three witnesses establishing a change of worship Sunday as many do contend.
5) When was Sunday worship established?
Answer: Constantine dedicated the venerable day of the Sun in 325 AD as the day of “Christian” worship. In such, he married the pagan sun god traditions, which he never repented of even though in name he declared himself to be a Christian with the customs of Christianity. This is the root of the many false teachings of Roman Catholicism who routinely incorporate pagan beliefs into their worship in the many countries we see they have spread.
6) Has the law changed”
Answer: No, the law has not changed, but the covenant of the church age is not the same covenant of the OT that was handed down to Moses through the law. We are now in the age of grace, of which we are at an even higher spiritual admonition to not sin, yet it is not by the law that we do this, but instead by walking in the fruit of the Spirit. Instead, Jesus now bears the burden of the law which He “nailed” to the cross, taking these ordinances, including the ordinances of the Sabbath, out of the way. While, we are not in any manner free to sin, God forbid, we are nevertheless freed of the burden of the law which no man can keep.
Thus, I would recommend everyone consider very carefully what it so states once again in Matthew 5:17-19.
7) What is the purpose of the law today?
Answer: I believe that there is at least a threefold purpose for us today during church age, otherwise known as the age of grace.
First, the law is still in place for the people of Israel and it is in part by observance of the law and most especially the Sabbath that the Jews have remained a separated people awaiting their day of atonement at the end of the tribulation when their Messiah, their Deliverer, Jesus comes for them. (Zechariah 12, 13 and 14)
Second, the law is for the lawless who are still convicted of sin. (I Timothy 1:8-11) Thus, this is what the lawless shall be judged by.
Lastly, the law continues to convict the believer of sin and still leads us to the knowledge of Christ when we come together and understand the many prophetic fulfillments of the law which is a shadow of good things to come. I still cringe every time that I read through the OT laws and the many laws that I have directly violated, most especially those of my youth for which, under Jewish law, I would unfortunately have been stoned to death many times. Yes, the law continues to reside within my heart just as Jeremiah 31: 31-34 told us it would by virtue of the new covenant through the shed blood of Jesus. Yes, we are NOT under the law, but the law constrains me through the knowledge of sin. Thus, within my own heart, and my own conscience, I am convicted and through a godly sorrow, this leads me unto repentance.
May God greatly bless all and grant wisdom, knowledge and understanding,
In Christ’s name,
Peter
Millerfamily6
Said this on March 11th, 2008 at 6:25am:
For my Brothers/Sisters in Christ at CSE blogs:
With all of the discussions going on with the name of God, the Sabbath, and the law, I wanted to repost this link to an article on An Expose on the Hebrew Roots/Sacred Name Movement since it might be helpful to some on this blog. I hope it will be a blessing to you and keep you from stumbling:
http://www.hopeofisrael.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=535&Itemid=30
Dear Millerfamily6,
Thank you for the link. Yes, once again, the King James translators got it right. Here is a summary from this link:
Summary:
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew for the Hebrew people, the chosen people of God, to declare His wonders to the world. The New Testament was written in Greek bringing the Kingdom of God to the whole Greek speaking Gentile world, as well as the Jews, that we might all become one people under God.
The partition has been taken down dividing the Hebraic Old Testament and the Hellenistic New Testament: Meaning … the whole bible (both the old and new) has been translated into English for the English speaking world (both Jew and Gentile) at the threshold of Jesus’ return, and as a base been re-translated into other ethnic tongues for non-English speaking people.
In the Old Testament the Lord’s name was JEHOVAH (as presented in today’s written word), the God of the Jews. In the New Testament the Lord’s name is JESUS … God coming in the flesh for both the Jew and the Gentile, that we might all become one people under God.
Dear 4truthsetsufree,
Well hello for the first time in quite a while. We are at least making progress with you addressing me directly instead of obliquely. Thank you in truth and sincerity for perhaps we can now come together and reason over these many issues. That is what I truly wish to do.
Now, you are making a distinction between the “Ten commandment law” and the “ceremonial law” of such you state that the ceremonial law mentioned in Leviticus chapter 23 is not the same Sabbath as mentioned in the Ten commandments. I do not believe that this is the manner in Which Jesus divides the Bible where He spoke of the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms concerning me In Luke 24:44.
Jesus speaks only of the law in a singular fashion. Further, I believe that you are mixing and mismatching your own metaphors with the royal law in James 2:8 since James is quoting from Leviticus 19:18. Thus, you state that the royal law is that of the ten commandments when in fact it is actually from the third book of the law of Moses which you incorrectly state is ONLY ceremonial. In fact, the book of Leviticus is the hardest book of the Bible for me to read because of the many sins of my youth that I know I stand convicted of sin in my flesh and of a truth, Jesus has paid the price for those sins when He was upon the cross which He endured my shame that I have brought upon Him. No, the books of the law convict and are not simply ceremonial.
Further, you miss the point in Leviticus chapter 23 that God is speaking of ALL the days of holy convocations which includes the weekly Sabbath day. Please take a look at Leviticus 23:3 where it states that six days shall you work, but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. No, you are incorrectly characterizing the Sabbath mentioned here. It is none other than that which was ordained in Genesis 2:1-3 and REESTABLISHED in Exodus 20.
Lets go back to Col 2:14-17 and we will likewise see that Paul is speaking of all the convocations just as did Moses in Leviticus chapter 23. We can plainly show that the Sabbath is a shadow of the millennial reign of Christ for one thousand years as part of the “septa-millennial” theory of seven thousand years of earth’s existence before the new heavens and the new earth. Now, “take notes,” he states to judge NO MAN on these feast days and the sabbath days.
Thus, the test for the SDA is not in whether we love Christ and out of that love we do seek to keep His commandments including those in which the early church specifically avoided laying the law of Moses upon the church and only gave the burden to avoid fornication and not eating things sacrificed to idols. (Acts 15:10) The SDA doctrine goes against this admonition and further so states that any man that does not keep the Sabbath shall be condemned and specifically those that worship on Sunday shall bear the mark of the beast. Well, what part of Sunday worship do you insert into the mark in the right hand or forehead? These statements are not congruous. That is the problem in the end analysis. Do we listen to what a false prophetess has declared in opposition to the Scriptures, or do we listen to the Scriptures alone? At some point in time, for you to justify the SDA doctrines, you must make the decision that the Bible is in error since you do not find these doctrines in any manner from the Bible which you keep stating is your source and your commandment to obey.
Thus, once again, let’s discuss soul sleep vs. hell, the Sabbath as the seal of God or the Holy Ghost as the seal of God, the investigative judgment or the names written in the Lamb’s book of life from the foundation of the world, or the great disappointment or the blessed hope? I do dare state plainly that if you will be honest with yourself, you must conclude that these few doctrines of the SDA AND the Bible cannot both be true at the same time. Which is truth, the Bible or EGW? I contend once again, that you and all must make a choice. I have already sided with the Bible alone. I strongly recommend that you examine these simple doctrines and decide for your own self. Assuredly, they are not both correct at the same time especially given the false translation used exclusively by the SDA.
In this I still do challenge you.
In the love of Christ,
Peter