From: Kent Hovind
Sent: November 21, 2007
To: Zimri and Cozbi
Subject: Adultery
(First read Numbers 25:3-18)
KH: (At Numbers 25:6) Whoa there, folks! What are you doing dressed like that?! Put some clothes on!
Zimri: We are going to walk slowly right past old pious Moses, the judges, and the whole congregation of Israel right into my tent to make love.
I’m tired of all those silly moral laws Moses tries to put on us (Exodus 20:14). He doesn’t want us to enjoy life. We will show those do-gooders what they are missing out on. They are a bunch of old foggies way out of touch with the times.
KH: But Cozbi, aren’t you embarrassed to be outside in broad daylight dressed like that? It looks like you were poured into those jeans and they forgot to say, “When!”
Cozbi: Oh, no! I like my clothes tight, low cut, and see through – to show off all my curves. I get a lot of attention from the men dressed like this.
KH: I’m sure you do, but my daddy always said, “If you’re not in business, don’t advertise!”
Cozbi: But I am in business!
KH: You two aren’t married, are you?
Cozbi: Of course we are! Just not to each other. My husband is off with another woman and Zimri’s wife is probably off “praying” for him. She doesn’t understand him like I do.
KH: But Zimri, didn’t you hear God give the Ten Commandments to Moses, including the one about not committing adultery?
Zimri: No, that was my dad almost forty years ago. I was not born yet. Dad tried to tell me about it, but I wasn’t interested in that church stuff. Plus, Dad was always too busy trying to get ahead in politics. He’s a prince, you know (Numbers 25:14). He never had much time to teach me about life; so I learned from my friends (Proverbs 7:7). I’ll be able to be a prince also one day. My dad has connections.
KH: I know. That means many others will look to you for leadership. I don’t think what you are doing today is setting a good example for the young boys around you to follow, is it?
Zimri: I’m more concerned about me right now. Besides, why would God care what I do as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody? Plus, it’s not like I’m the only one. There are twenty-four thousand of us that have Midianite girlfriends (Numbers 25:9; I Corinthians 10:8). Get with the times, Kent, everyone is doing it.
Cozbi: Yeah, Kent, it’s not like we are complete heathens. We came from Abraham, too, and we worship god (Genesis 25:2). We just call him Baal. Our god doesn’t have strict rules like Moses. Our god encourages adultery. On top of that, Zimri and I are both children of important political leaders. The rules for the common folk don’t apply to us.
KH: I think God will judge everyone by the same standard. He is not impressed with politics, power, or titles.
Cozbi: Well, we just do things differently in my country. If you feel it’s right for you, then it’s OK. I know men and how they think and react. I’m real good at putting that knowledge to work.
KH: Do you know or care how God thinks or reacts?
Cozbi: Not really.
KH: Zimri, you know this girl was raised in a pretty heathen world without knowledge of the true God. She has not seen God provide manna from Heaven like you have (Exodus 16:15-35; Deuteronomy 8:16; John 6:31-58). She didn’t see God do any miracles (Numbers 16:31; 17:8). She has not been able to read or hear the great laws God gave to your people. She needs to be converted, Zimri. Aren’t you concerned about her soul?
Zimri: Not really.
KH: What about the effect your actions will have on your wife and children?
Zimri: I don’t really care. It’s not important to me.
KH: What if it’s important to God?
Zimri & Cozbi: Look, we don’t care and we are kind of in a hurry right now. We want to see Moses’ reaction when we walk past.
KH: Oh, you will get a reaction, all right! Phinehas will help both of you get the point (Numbers 25:7).
4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 2:42am:
So tell me, do you also believe the lies being propagated by EndTimes against SDA? About Michael the archangel and Jesus for instance? Should I even bother to share the truth on this? Or are people to willingly ignorant to listen?
Dear Pieter,
Thank you for coming back and most especially, thank you for partially addressing the SDA teachings on Michael the Archangel. Actually, I did look over your answer very carefully and in fact, you have not actually admitted that this is a SDA teaching. You accuse me of “lies” on this and I assume other SDA issues. Well, let’s go to THE most influential SDA source and see what Ellen G. White has to so state about this issue:
Patriarchs and Prophets
By Ellen G White
“Again: Christ is called the Word of God. John 1:1-3. He is so called because God gave His revelations to man in all ages through Christ. It was His Spirit that inspired the prophets. 1 Peter 1:10, 11. He was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord’s host, Michael the Archangel.”
Page 761
http://www.ellenwhitedefend.com/DOWNLOADS/Patriarchs%20and%20Prophets.pdf
So, you have falsely accused me of lying yet I will not hold my breath waiting for an apology that is not likely to come otherwise you would have to admit your error in your accusations. I suspect that you will continue to hide the true teachings of SDA just as I have accused SDA of doing. Perhaps you actually need to read what Ellen G. White taught my friend. Yes, it is a true fact the SDA church teach the false doctrine of Jesus as Michael the archangel.
In kindness,
Peter
P.S. I truly hope, wish and invite you to stand here at CSE and defend your SDA doctrines openly. In that, you are most welcome here even if your doctrines are not. I would hope and pray that you consider carefully all that we will discuss if you choose to do so as your soul and where it shall spend eternity is at risk. Yes, please do stay and please do openly discuss those SDA doctrines that differ greatly from the Bible.
4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 2:42am:
Dear eugene
Judging from the recent comments, I think it’s safe to say you are most definitely NOT welcome here. But don’t be discouraged, Jesus said to be “the salt of the earth” Mat 5:13. Our brother Kent would say, salt irritates, and it’s good to irritate people. Especially the willingly ignorant kind.
Dear Pieter,
Once again, you are quite incorrect. CSE has allowed much diversity to be expressed here so why would Eugene, Cookster, Isk or yourself not be able to so state politiely any argument that you wish to. In fact, the record is that you have been allowed this. So, please, you and all are welcome. In fact, I truly do hope that you will openly discuss your religion here and now. So, you are not at all speaking for CSE when you so state that Eugene is certainly not welcome here.
In kindness,
Peter
Re: Diverse opinions!
Hear!, Hear!
…Why, they even let me make postings about the theory of Global Warming.
====
Folks,
We want to be truth seekers, don’t we?
You (believer or skeptic) and I have SOME truth. Our senses let in some information each day. But we arrived on this planet only recently. (It was less that 120 years ago for you, correct?)
There is a cacophony of voices that contradict each other. Some refer to Jesus; others to Buddha; others to Muhammad; or persons who expound atheism.
On this blog – we start with: “Since the Bible is true…”
But even this frame, humans … disagree on how to best understand the Bible’s truths!
Pray for those of us who disagree with you.
And if anyone ever gets PERFECT theology and PERFECT Scriptural doctrines, then it is up to the rest of us to nail such a One to a Cross!
You and I are imperfect in body, and imperfect in mind, and in logic, in inter-personal communications. And we have less than complete knowledge; we learn as we go in life.
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God”, Romans 3:23
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”, Romans 6:23
We must be born again! We must become born (made alive!) spiritually.
John 3:16-17 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
Not works. We are saved by God’s grace; it is a free gift. We can never become “good” enough in our thoughts, words, and actions. Goodness does not get you to Heaven.
Paul Abramson
Here are some basic knowledge videos on SDA doctrines. Ellen G. White’s writings are quite extensive, well, those that she plagerized from other folks anyway. Nevertheless, to read through her long winded diatribes is not an easy task of which I have spent quite a bit of time today doing just that. There are some basic SDA doctrines especially on Bible prophecy that you will need to understand in the debate that Pieter appears perhaps to enter into here on CSE. I doubt very much that he will actually get into the meat of any of these SDA doctrines since their own literature warns against doing such a thing because most of the people would run away if they heard all of the SDA doctrines on end times events in one lecture. So, here is a good start, and I will summarize with SDA documents showing where they differ from the Bible. In actuality, I do believe that I can give a brief account in such a manner that you will be able to understand why Pieter is against the rapture and other issues.
May God bless,
Peter
FALSE PROPHECY BY SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS EXPOSED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvsK8ADctoc&feature=related
HERETIC FALSE PROPHECIES FROM SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS PART 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7IwcGVdq9g&feature=related
HERETIC FALSE PROPHECIES FROM SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS PART 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHaTv6Fb7ok&feature=related
Part 1- Seventh-day Adventism – The Spirit Behind the Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zwygXK1bBc&feature=related
Part 2- Seventh-day Adventism – The Spirit Behind the Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFQ2YeVZOno&feature=related
Part 3- Seventh-day Adventism – The Spirit Behind the Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEochm2hvG0&feature=related
Part 4- Seventh-day Adventism – The Spirit Behind the Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRYXmgFo_c&feature=related
Part 5- Seventh-day Adventism – The Spirit Behind the Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3DxWupVfrM&feature=related
First, Ellen G. White incorrectly taught that the 1260 days of Daniel were 1260 years starting in 538 AD and ending in 1798 with the papacy being captured and taken to France.
The Mark of the Beast
E.G White
THE 1260 DAY PROPHECY
A.D. 538 .——A.D. 1798
THE PROPHECY OF DANIEL
“Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of
the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea,
diverse one from another . . “And behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and It had
great Iron teeth . . and it had ten horns.
“I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little
horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold,
in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.
“I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So
he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. . Then I would know the
truth of the fourth beast. . And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which
came up, and before whom three fell; and of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that
spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
“I beheld, and the same horn made war With the saints, and prevailed against
them. .
“And he shall speak great words against the most High, .and shall wear out the
saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into
his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time..”—Daniel 7:2-3, 7-8, 16, 19-21, 25.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/MarkofBeast.pdf
With the year 538, then, begins the 1260 years of this prophecy of papal
domination, which would extend to 1798. In that year as the Reign of Terror continued in
the French Revolution and the Roman Catholic religion was set aside in France, the
French army, under Berthier, entered Rome and took the pope prisoner. The date:
February 10,1798. The imprisoned pope died in exile the following year in Valence,
France. A great cry was heard, “Catholicism is dead.” The papacy had received the
“deadIy wound” of Revelation 13:3. But we are told that the wound is to be healed, and
that the time is coming when all the world will “wonder after the beast” (Revelation 13:3).
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/MarkofBeast.pdf
Second, the SDA doctrine on the 70 weeks of Daniel is that it is already completed with no remaining 70th week available for the “Protestant” doctrine of the 7 year tribulation. Thus, the teaching that all will go through the plaques of Revelation except for a select few that will be translated like Enoch.
However, the 70th week ends in 34 AD by SDA teachings with the act of stoning Stephen. Sorry, but the 70th week ends with a flood after the antichrist commits the abomination of desolation in the middle of the week. The SDA are simply in gross error from the Bible on this issue. Further, we do indeed have other examples of split time fulfilments within the context of even the same verse. Take a look at Isaiah 61:1-2 and so note that it was repeated verbatim except for one small exception in Luke 4:16-21: all was repeated except “and the day of vengeance of our God.” We can easily see that this is likewise a day that is in the future during the time of tribulation ending in Armageddon. Yes, it is true that there is a split betweenthe 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel that still awaits the final testing of Israel AFTER the church has been raptured. The only part of the SDA teaching on this that is correct is that the entire 70 weeks is for Israel and not the church. That is actually just one more reason for the pre-trib rapture since the church will no longer be here on earth. There are so many pure and definitive scriptures on the rapture as being pre-trib that hopefully, if others are interested, we can discuss from the Bible alone and not misguided SDA evangelistic proselytizers.
In kindness,
Peter
[EDITOR’S NOTE: Oh, very interesting!
Peter, please correct me on this, (and I see you have a couple more messages below that I have not read yet, but) my understanding is that there is a break between Week 69 and Week 70 (as you typed above).
Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city…”
Then ... probably something that not even the angels (able to read and study our Scriptures, of course) foreknew!
The “Mystery of the Church” and this whole “New Testament” period, the “times of the Gentiles”….
Romans 11:25 “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.”
The conclusion of Week 69: the Messiah rode into Jerusalem; He was received as King - but then ... Crucified. “Messiah ben Joseph”; the suffering servant. He left and sent the Holy Spirit. Pentecost! And for about a generation after Christ’s Resurrection and Ascension, Israel continued - then the Romans destroyed it, killing about 1 million Jews! It was a horrific starvation and slaughter. (The Christian converts had mostly left Jerusalem ahead of the Roman army, as they knew of Christ’s prophecies in: Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21).
Luke 21:20a “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, …”
Now - Israel is a nation again as of 1948! To my understanding (…if correct…?) the “times of the Gentiles” are coming to completion. And they regained control of Jerusalem in 1967. Another miracle. About a generation has passed, or that will be the case soon.
Soon … the “70th Week” … will begin. Does this basically correlate with your understanding? … (…I should go back to your web page again soon - shouldn’t I?)
SEPARATE APOLOGY - I could not get across town (writing this note on Friday, 3-21, early afternoon), due to flooding on major roads here. Sorry that I am moderating so late today!
(I usually try to view and approve messages each morning and again each evening, at least twice daily, except for Sundays.) P.A. ]
Here are two SDA rapture disputation papers that spell out their views on the rapture quite well. Please note, this is SDA literature, not anti SDA literature. There are their views. There is NO agreement whatsoever with SDA teachings and the true teachings on the rapture from the Bible alone. I hope that this is of help.
In kindness,
Peter
The Rapture Theory–
Dennis Priebe
Contents
• The Rapture Theory
• Will It Be Secret?
• Will Christ Return In Two Phases?
• The Seven Year Tribulation
• When Does the Antichrist Appear?
• The Second Chance
The midst of the week would be three and a half days (years) from His
baptism. And according to the Bible, the ministry of Jesus lasted for three and a
half years. In the spring of 31 A.D. He was crucified. The veil of the temple was
rent (Matthew 27:51), signifying the end of sacrifices. By His death He caused
them to cease. Another three and a half years would lead up to the end of the
seventy weeks and the end of Jewish probation. During that three and a half
years the disciples labored largely for the Jews. But in 34 A.D. the seventy
weeks ended; Stephen was stoned and the gospel began to go to the Gentiles
(Acts 8:4). The Jews had rejected the gospel message and were no longer God’s
people just as Daniel had predicted. Henceforth they could be saved only as
individuals, in exactly the same way as the Gentiles. As a nation they had been
rejected as the chosen people. Here is the way the Bible describes that rejection:
Let us stand firm on the Word of God alone and reject these man-made,
man-pleasing ideas that form the bulk of the whole secret rapture theory. As we
have noticed, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ will come the second
time in glorious majesty to take His redeemed home with Him. It will be a
personal, visible, and an earthshaking event that everyone alive will know about.
The righteous will be caught up and meet the Lord in the air, whereas the
wicked will be slain by the brightness of that coming (II Thessalonians 2:8). Let
us carefully study our Bibles that we will not be deceived concerning this most
important and wonderful hope, the second coming of Jesus.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/The%20Rapture%20Theory.pdf
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT THE SECRET RAPTURE-
JOE CREWS
There is a theological question that has disturbed millions of Christians and has lent
untold doctrinal confusion to the modern religious world. That question revolves around
the manner of Christ’s coming back to this earth at the end of the world. Multitudes have
been led to believe that Christ will return secretly. What about the so-called secret
rapture? A large number of Christians have been exposed to this “dispensationalist” or
“futurist” interpretation of prophecy and have been hopelessly confused.
According to this view, the coming of Jesus will be in two separate events. First, He will
come secretly to take the church to heaven, and then, seven years later, He will come in
an open demonstration of power and glory. In between those two events, the Antichrist
is supposed to come into power and the great tribulation period take place.
But the truth is that the Bible nowhere speaks of these two separate comings of Jesus.
There is no second stage of His coming that occurs seven years after the so-called
“rapture.” By the way, that word “rapture” is also an invention of theologians. It can’t be
found in the Bible in even a single instance. It is a word coined for the second advent of
Jesus.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/What-the-Bible-says-aboutSecret-Rapture.pdf
Ellen G. White teaches that the followers of Christ must come to perfection before Christ comes.
PERFECTION BEFORE CHRIST COMES AND We SHINE FORTH IN THE KINGDOM
OF OUR Father.
Let us all bear in mind that we are ever to be earnest students
in
the school of Christ. If we will keep in the position of humble
learners, our light will shine forth brighter and brighter unto the
perfect day. And, when our earthly labors are ended and Christ shall
come for His faithful children, we shall then shine forth as the sun in
the kingdom of our Father. But before that time shall come, everything
that is imperfect in us will have been seen and put away. All envy and
jealousy and evil surmising, and every selfish plan will have been
banished from the life.–Letter 416, 1907, p. 9. (To A. G. Daniells and
C. White, December 30, 1906.)
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/Adventist-Apocolypse.pdf
Ellen G. White and the SDA teach that her writings were inspired.
THE INSPIRATION Of THE ELLEN WHITE WRITINGS; THE TABLES OF THE LAW
BROUGHT FORTH WHEN SINNERS ARE SENTENCED. ld06l090
In my books the truth is stated, barricaded by a “Thus saith the
Lord,” The Holy Spirit traced these truths upon my heart and mind as
indelibly as the law was traced by the finger of God upon the tables of
stone, which are now in the ark; to be brought forth in that great day
when sentence is pronounced against every evil, seducing science
produced by the father of lies.–Letter 90, 1906, p. 6. (“To the
Brethren Assembles in Council at Graysville, Tennessee,” March 6,
1906.)
ELLEN WHITE RECEIVED CLEAR REPRESENTATIONS Of FUTURE EVENTS.
I have had clear representations of what will occur in rapid
succession at various places…. Even in the cities where the judgments
of God have fallen in consequence of transgression [Oakland and San
Francisco], there is no sign of repentance. The saloons are still open
and many temptations are kept before the people.–Letter 268, 1906, pp.
3, 4. (To D. H. Kress and wife, August 20, 1906.)
ELLEN WHITE HAD A CLEAR COMPREHENSION Of WHAT THE FUTURE HELD.
I have a clear comprehension of what will be in the future. If as
a people we make false moves now, it will be because of unbelief…. We
must be on our guard, for we have a decided work to do.–Letter 28,
1907, p. 1. (To 0. A. Olsen, February 5, 1907.)
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/Adventist-Apocolypse.pdf
Ellen G. White teaches that there are only two types of people, those of the mark of the beast (Sunday worship) or those that are seal of God by keeping the Sabbath. All those that have the mark of the beast shall be lost, but don’t worry, they will not go to an eternal hell, but instead will “sleep” in nothingness for all eternity.
There Are Only Two Classes, One Stamped With God’s Seal, the
Other the Mark of the Beast. There are only two classes. Each party is
distinctly stamped, either with the seal of the living God, or with the
mark of the beast or his image. Each son and daughter of Adam chooses
Christ or Satan as his general. All who place themselves on the side of
the disloyal are under Satan’s black banner and stand charged with
rejecting and despitefully using Jesus Christ. They are charged with
deliberately crucifying the Lord of life and glory.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/Adventist-Apocolypse.pdf
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Oh, well I guess St. Paul won't make it either then, according to their doctrines.
Acts 20:7 "And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.”
1 Corinthians 16:2 “Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.” P.A. ]
The Seal of God is Sabbath-keeping. This is the message given by
God to be sounded forth in the loud cry of the third angel. The sign or
seal of God is the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath, the Lord’s
memorial of His work of creation. “The Lord spoke unto Moses, saying,
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily My Sabbaths
ye shall keep: for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your
generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify
you” (Exodus 31:12, 13). Here the Sabbath is clearly defined as a sign
between God and His people.
The Mark of the Beast is Sunday-keeping. The mark of the beast is
the opposite of this–the observance of the first day of the week. This
mark distinguishes [between] those who acknowledge the supremacy of the
papal authority, seen in the man of sin,–thinking to change times and
laws,–and those who acknowledge the authority of God..
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/Adventist-Apocolypse.pdf
Opponents of the Seventh-day Sabbath Are Satan’s Agents. The
whole
[of this] chapter [Revelation 18] is full of importance, and is of
consequence to every human agent. Consider this matter; it will bear
close searching. The men who are denying the Sabbath instituted by God
Himself, who are trampling upon the commandments of God, are the
devil’s spies, who seek to find accusation against those who will not
reverence a man-made institution and worship an idol sabbath. The
observance of the seventh day according to the commandment, reveals to
them a neglect of duties which they owe to God. If there were not a
people voicing the third angel’s message, they would have no
conscientious scruples for Sunday observance, but it is the truth that
they do not wish to receive. The Jews did not want their customs and
practices to be disturbed; neither do the professed Christian world of
Christian Churches Are in Partnership With the World in Making
Void God’s Law. The world is in co-partnership with the professed
Christian churches in making void the law of Jehovah. God’s law is set
aside; it is trampled underfoot, and from all the loyal people of God,
the prayer will ascend to heaven, “It is time for Thee, Lord, to work:
for they have made void Thy law” (Psalm 118:126). Satan is making this
last and most powerful effort for the mastery; his last conflict
against the principles of God’s law. A defiant infidelity abounds.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/Adventist-Apocolypse.pdf
Ellen G. White taught her followes to conceal their plans and purposes. We see evidence of this even on CSE by Isk and Pieter who have yet to acknowledge a single SDA doctrine that I have commented on and in fact have denied that I am bringing forth information that is a true SDA doctrine. Yes, DQ, the SDA’s do hide their true intent. Here first is the adminiton for EGW herself and the second quip is from an SDA pastor speaking of the difficulty of telling the whole truth of SDA doctrines at prophecy seminars since MOST of the people will get up and leave. Hmmmm, why Pieter, do people leave if they are exposed to the full darkness of SDA doctrines?
In kindness,
Peter
SDAS Not to Disclose All Their Plans and Purposes, or Satan Will
Take Advantage. We are not to reveal all our purposes and plans to men.
Satan will take advantage of any indiscretion shown on this point. He
does not work openly and above board. He works in an underhanded
manner, and will continue to do so. Before the people are prepared for
it, he leads men to set on foot a powerful movement by working on their
minds….
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/Adventist-Apocolypse.pdf
The part of the story you were never told about the the antichrist and the secret rapture.
Adapted from a sermon by- Pastor John Grosboll
I’ll just tell you a story. My brother Marshall was holding his first
series of meetings in Pennsylvania and he hadn’t studied this thing out
yet that we’re going to study tonight, and so he just started preaching
the truths of the Bible. He preached to the people about the second
coming, and do you know what happened? He lost almost his whole
crowd! Almost nobody came back. Now the few people that did
come back, he baptized almost all of them. Eventually they accepted
the three angels messages and became part of God’s remnant people.
But most of them he lost right there. So then he started studying why
he lost all those people all of sudden when he started talking about the
second coming.
The reason was that they had accepted this theology that Ribera
had developed. And that’s why, if you look at our Prophecy Seminar,
we don’t start off talking about the second coming. In fact, we spend
about three evenings just working on the rapture theory, because if
you don’t do that you lose the people. You need to know that if you’re
giving Bible studies to somebody, you need to find out if they believe
in the rapture. Most Christians do; and if they do, you had better
know what you are doing when you introduce the subject. You can’t
go immediately to the subject of the second coming or you’ll lose
them.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/antichristrapture.pdf
Dear Pieter, please OPENLY explain probation, the great disappointment and the investigative judgement from an SDA perspective.
Thank you,
Peter
PROBATION AND THE MESSAGE of REVELATION 18.
Probation Ended by the Time Christ Comes. There will be no
probation after the coming of the Lord. Those who say that there will
[be] are deceived and misled. Before Christ comes, just such a state of
things will exist as existed before the flood. After the Savior appears
in the clouds of heaven, no one will be given another chance to gain
salvation. All will have made their decisions.
http://remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/2nd-Come-EndTime/Adventist-Apocolypse.pdf
4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 2:42am:
Dear eugene
What does the KJV Bible say? Is Jesus and the archangel the same? The answer is YES!
1Th 4:16 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first” Notice: the voice of the archangel. Joh 5:25 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.” Notice: the voice of the Son of God.
Conclusion. The KJV Bible that EndTimes tries so hard to defend, ironically makes the archangel and the Son of God the same!
So I ask again, is Jesus really an angel? Is Jesus really a lamb?
Sorry EndTimes… You either believe the Bible in its fullness or you throw away the book!
Dear Pieter,
Uh, oh, you are not doing a wise thing to start criticizing the KJV here on a pro KJV site especially with Ekkman. I remember in high school when the Viet Nam war and my going to it as a draftee was a reality yet only by three years away, and some of the discussions on China’s involvement in that war. I remember some saying that we should let a sleeping giant sleep and not awake them. Unfortunately, I suspect that you will arouse many here by going anti-KJV. Of course, you will not admit that the grossly and wickedly perverted Clear Bible is the SDA standard now will you.
Now, further, I do believe that if you will actually come out of the weeds and dark shadows of this site and openly debate, I do not have the least worry that you or any SDA doctrines shall in any manner tarnish God’s true Holy Bible in Engish, the KJV. But such discussions do make for great interest so, once again, you are certainly welcome to espouse any view that you wish, but in the end, we shall see that you will not adhere to the Bible and instead you shall openly condemn it in preferance for your false SDA doctrines. Yes, there will come a point where you will simply state that the Bible is not correct.
Once again, please discuss the SDA views on hell, soul sleep and the other nine simple questions that have continued to be completely unanswered in any manner by you, Isk or anyone else that wishes to jump in.
The Seventh Day Adventists have a false Christ, a false gospel, a false prophetess and false end times doctrines that do not stand to the light of the Bible.
in kindness,
Peter
Samphire
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 12:18am:
EndTimes Said this on March 18th, 2008 at 9:59pm:
”It would be of interest to see if they will carbon date this find or simply ASSUME it is 65 million years old. Further, will they, in light of at least I believe two seperate finds with preserved soft tissues in the marrow of the thigh bones, search through the marrow as well in this unusally rare find. I suspect that they will not since of course, it c’c’c’c’can’t be only 4000 years old. Yes, I would hope that they do some real science on this including a search for soft tissues in the bones, organs and carbon dating of this which would be within a readible date I am venturing as a testible hypothesis which is reasonable to do.”
Peter, you surprise me. I prophesy that all that will be found is rock all the way through but perhaps with some microscopic interstices. Possibly, the rock may show some if not a lot of structure but there will be no original preserved soft tissue and certainly no marrow. Indeed, as you are aware, for all PA’s wishful thinking no preserved original soft tissue has ever been found in any fossil.
As for carbon-dating, why would you want the paleontologists to do that? You don’t believe in radiometric dating because it contradicts your preconceptions so even if non-carboniferous rock did somehow show a date of 2000 BC by carbon-dating that would not assist your sceptical philosophy. Perhaps you might like to debunk a fellow christian’s view at:
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html
On another matter, I imagine that as a medical man you will greatly enjoy the fascinating talk at:
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229
Kind regards
Samphire
[EDITOR’S NOTE: http://www.mummytombs.com/mummylocator/animal/dinosaur.htm
“T. Rex Soft Tissue Found Preserved” - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/0324_050324_trexsofttissue.html
“Is the Lava Dome at Mount St. Helens Really 1 Million Years Old?” - http://www.creationism.org/articles/msh_lavadome.htm
Ahem, and whom has the unscientific preconceptions? … P.A. ]
Dear Samphire,
It is indeed good to hear from you over here again. I do miss our verbal joustings that we once enjoyed here on CSE but alas was not able to be duplicated on CSEantipode. I would so state that my premise is to look in the femur for any possible soft tissues of which at least two have been found on prior finds. If all is completely fossilized and replaced with rock with no organic tissues remaining, then yes of course, there would be no need or use or reason for carbon dating.
Once again, it is always good to hear from you.
May God bless,
Peter
4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 2:42am:
Dear eugene
What does the KJV Bible say? Is Jesus and the archangel the same? The answer is YES!
dear Pieter,
You are absolutely incorrect and in great error on this statement. However, God in His providence had me answer this question ONE DAY prior to it being posted in my comment to the Miller family on the issue of the rapture. No, the SHOUT of I Thess 4:13-18 is in two parts, the VOICE of the archangel, AND the TRUMP of God. So, I will let stand my answer to your question given by the providence of God before you uttered such blasphemy. I would simply remind you of Hebrews 1:5.
Now, after you have so many times come here with a false platitude of “love” in your responses, it now appears that the hatred of the KJV and of “Protestant” theology is starting to come to the surface if just a little bit. If you wish to adhere to SDA doctrine, that is truly your choice, yet, it is likewise a mistake to come here to a conservative, Independant, Fundamental Baptist website (That is Dr.Hovind’s home church) and expect a warm and fuzzy acceptance of your false doctrines. I do not in the least mind discussing them with you, but once again, we will get to a point where you will so state that the Bible is incorrect and that Ellen G. White is correct if you defend your SDA doctrines openly.
Until that time, I will do my best to so educate others on this site that NO ONE would be foolish enough to believe on the false SDA gospel that shall lead many to the pits of hell of which you do not believe in as well.
May the Lord God of heaven continue to prove His Holy Word to all that have ears to hear and eyes to see.
In the name of Christ,
Peter
4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 2:42am:
Dear eugene
And have you noticed how many people are shouting “Away with the Ten Commandments!” But listen to this: “…I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it…” Rev 3:8
Dear Pieter,
What am I a potted plant that you completely ignore the many volumes of posts that I have so noted on this very subject over the last month? Yes, a potted plant indeed in your eyes as you continually squeek past me obliquely without ever addressing the fulness of my challenges to you. Yet once again, you are now propagating untruths on the position that I have spent much time and effort in great part for you alone my friend that you would have no reason whatsoever to falsely accuse the Bible of untrue doctrines which in your SDA positions are actually nothing more than straw man arguments.
No, the Bible makes it very clear in the NT that the law itself has not changed one jot or one tittle. (Matthew 5:17-19) Yet, what the SDA completely ignores is that we do have a new COVENANT, or TESTAMENT written in the blood of Jesus Christ of Nazareth so that we would no longer have to bear the burden of the law by the first covenant which no man including you or Ellen G. White could ever hope to keep. You completely ignore that the Bible so states that if you fail on one part of the law, you have broken it all. Even on the issue of the Sabbath, there is no man that can keep even this one simple commandment. Have you kept your thoughts pure throughout every Sabbath since you were born? Have you never lied, cheated, lusted, coveted, cursed, blasphemed, lost your temper on any of the many Sabbath days that you have now lived? If you tell me that you have been perfect every seventh day of your life, then you just lied to me and to God, for all men sin everywhere. Have you ever had an argument on the way to church or cooked over an open fire on the Sabbath day. Have you ever taken gone more than one mile, two miles or more on the Sabbath day?
So, you hold up the ten commandments to condemn me and others because we come together on the first day of the week, yet at the same time you yourself are completely incapable of keeping that which you condemn me by.
Once again, lets do some Bible 101:
“For whoseoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is quilty of all.”
James 2:10
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
I John 1:8
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been veidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Recieived ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?”
Galatians 3:1-3
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.”
Galatians 3:10-11
“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
Galatians 3:24-26
“Tell me, ye that dsire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a frewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is fee, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.”
Galatians 4:21-5:1
My dear Pieter,
I would hope that here and now, you and I could come together for a moment in agreement of the Holy Scriptures which you have spoken before as your authority in your faith. There are no more plain admonitions and warnings against any man trying to keep the commandments as a method of salvatioin. I pray that you will consider not my words but that of the Bible alone as listed above and in fact read through the entire book of Galatians and you will see that trying to keep the Seventh day Sabbath, even though it still is and always will be the Sabbath is not what Jesus has taught us as the way, the truth and the life. Please do not be beguiled and bewitched by false doctrines of Sabbath keeping. It shall not profit you at all when you stand before the Lord trying to vainly protest that you tried to keep the Sabbath when in fact, we need to acknowledge that it is by the law that we are convicted of our sins, and of our need for a Saviour that did keep the law in all ways, yet now has taken the burden of the law out of the way in the free gift of eternal life through faith by grace. It is truly my hope and prayer that you will submit unto the law of liberty and stop vainly trying to keep that which you are completely incapable of keeping.
In the love of Christ,
Peter
4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 2:42am:
Dear eugene
Judging from the recent comments, I think it’s safe to say you are most definitely NOT welcome here. But don’t be discouraged, Jesus said to be “the salt of the earth” Mat 5:13. Our brother Kent would say, salt irritates, and it’s good to irritate people. Especially the willingly ignorant kind.
When you read this blog for long enough, and come across comments like “…they have given up on us, walking away thinking they can’t win us over to their superior reading of the text…” (Phillip-George, March 18th, 2008 at 4:24pm), it reminds me of what Jesus had to say to the church of Laodicea Rev 3:17-18 “Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see.”
Dear Pieter,
Here is the saddest of all the comments you have submitted in quoting from Revelation for those that are NAKED and do not have the white robe of righteousnes that we can only have when we come to Jesus on His terms and by His Holy Word. There is no man that can clothe himself with white robes of righteousness for our righteousnes is a filthy rags. No, Pieter, the only way to have the robes of righteousness and holiness is to call upon the name of the Lord in faith believing that Jesus rose fromt he grave on the third day. There is no work that we can do to deserve this grace. By His mercy, we do not receive that which we deserve, which is hell. By grace we do receive that which we don’t deserve, that is heaven. There are two covenants, where one brings us into bondage and does not save, that is by the law, and the other by grace as the law of liberty brings us into freedom and truth and righteousness.
Please let me speak bluntly to you. The Seal of God as Sabbath keeping shall not in any manner profit you on your day of judgement. Please do search out what many faithful brethren that were once Seventh Day Adventist Sabbath keepers wish to teach you of the true gospel of Christ for by faith our we saved.
My prayers are with you,
In the name of the one Saviour and Creator, Jesus Christ of Nazareth,
Peter
Here is a SDA promotional video that shows many thoughts that almost all true Christians would agree with except the Sabbath issue. Once again, do we here any of the doctrines that actually make up the central set of SDA beliefs? No, not at all. Yes, I have spoken correctly when I first stated that the SDA were the slickest cult out there in their presentation as just another denomination of Christianity when in fact the SDA teach that the “protestants” are part of the antichrist system marked by keeping Sunday worship. No, you won’t hear about the Seal of God or the Mark of the Beast in any of their promotional material. I believe that this is deceptive and sets a false sense that these very friendly people are actually part of the body of Christ when in fact they are counting on their own good works for salvation. I hope that this is once again helpful to all, including Pieter and Isk.
In the name of Christ,
Peter
Who are Seventh-day Adventists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YVcenaMzDw&feature=related
Here is a very well done but brief comparison of Ellen G. White’s teachings and what the Bible actually states. Probation, Investigative judgement, the great disappointment, soul sleep are just a few such teachings that are exposed as false in this well done slide show.
Ellen G White
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiAPNc_yLA8&feature=related
Please pray for us, I was in an automobile accident 4 days ago, I was hit directly from behind by a lady, I think she was sick with the flu and not paying attention, she took full responsibility for the accident. I have injured my back and neck but not bad, doctor says it will take up to 3 months therapy. We have to get another used car and with the left over money we will be able to move with. We had been praying for the monies to be able to move with, and now with this small settlement we will be able to. The bad thing is that the arm loan we got has now hurt our credit rating, and many places check your credit so it will be hard to find a place. So please pray we will find favor with someone and be able to find a quiet clean place that has a back fenced yard for the grandchildren. Oh and with good neighbors. I am still in pain with my neck and back, so it will be slow going for the packing and moving. My son says he will help us, we are so thankful for this. My hubbys hands hurt, from the stress of overworking and he still needs to find another job, as this credit card company is not being totally honest with the people. Seems like this year holds a new place to stay, new used car, new job, whew, we pray for wisdom to make the right decisions. Please pray for strength and we don’t get overwhelmed and that we stay trusting in Him. He will give us perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him. Thank you for allowing me to post this request. As always we lift the Hovinds up and continue to believe that he will be released soon. from Brenda and Don
Brother Kent Hovind,
Blessed be the name of the Lord who put it in your heart to remind people of the danger of adultery though it seems normal to most people nowadays.
The verlasting Lord will continually uphold you.
We are praying for you while spreading the good news.
The seminars are still working in transforming lives.
Your labour is not in vain.
All that will live Godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
The joy of the Lord Jesus will remain your strength.
Sis Jo,
Precious greetings in Jesus name.
The Lord is on your side. He will continually uphold you with the right hand of His righteousness.
We’re praying for you & brother Kent.
The Almighty God will open the prison & unite you with your husband shortly in Jesus name. Amen.
Sade Tennyson