From: Kent Hovind
Sent: November 28, 2007
To: The Scientist
Subject: Help! It’s Hot!
GOD: Good morning, Son. I heard your prayers. Hold My hand. I want to show you something.
kh: OK. Where are we, Lord? What year is it? Who is this man?
GOD: It doesn’t matter, Son. Talk to him.
KH: Excuse me, sir, you look a little puzzled. Why are you weighing this tree?
Scientist (SC): I can’t figure it out. Where did the tree come from?
KH: Ah…trees come from seeds.
SC: I know that, but it doesn’t make sense. Five years ago I cut this oak barrel in half and filled it with dirt until it weighed exactly 200 pounds. Then I put a seed in the dirt and watered it every day. Each fall I put the dead leaves back on the dirt.
Today I pulled out the tree, roots and all and brushed the dirt off into the barrel and weighed both. The tree weighs just over 200 pounds and the dirt still weighs 199 pounds 14 ounces. That is only 2 ounces less than five years ago!
KH: That’s interesting!
SC: That’s why I’m puzzled. Where did the tree come from? All I added was water for five years.
KH: Yes, quite a puzzle. Any answers?
SC: I don’t know. It was still growing when I pulled it out. It would have been 500 pounds or more if I had waited.
GOD: OK, Son. Let’s go home.
kh: Wow, Lord! Wow! Where did the tree come from?
GOD: This lesson is for you, Son. The seed knows how to make the tree. It doesn’t need much from the dirt. You just add water, sun, and air, and be patient.
You received Me into your life on February 9, 1969, didn’t you, Son (John 1:12; 3:3-7)?
kh: Yes, Lord. I did.
GOD: I’m like the seed and you are like the dirt. I am growing a whole new person in you (II Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 4:15; Hebrews 5:13-14; I Peter 2:2; II Peter 3:18). Just add water and you will grow.
Trees can’t run from the heat, Son. Neither can you. A big tree will easily use over one hundred gallons of water each day. The hotter it is, the more they need. They send roots down until they can get enough. People who work or run in the heat need lots of water, too.
kh: Thanks, Lord! I needed that. I was feeling the heat of my situation and asked You to help me stand the heat (II Corinthians 12:7-10). That’s my answer, isn’t it, Lord?
GOD: Yes, Son. Just keep adding water. This present trial is to help you put roots deeper into My Word. You will find all you need. The Living Water (John 4:13-14) that I give will let you stand the worst heat that man can provide (Daniel 3:19-25).
kh: How will I know when I’ve taken in enough water?
GOD: You won’t feel the heat (Daniel 3:25). Chill out, Son. I’ve got your back.
A great message about the life of Joseph, by Adrian Rogers (“Love Worth Finding” Ministries)
He points out that Joseph’s life (starting in Gen. 37) is about 20-25% of the Book of Genesis! …More than Abraham…?
“Adrian Rogers: Practicing The Presence Of God”
http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/adrian-rogers-practicing-the-presence-of-god/
Dear EKKMAN,
First – let’s deal with the side issue.
Our Creator as (from Hebrew, using English) “Elohiym”:
Genesis 1:1 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=1&version=KJV#1
Genesis 1:27 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=27&version=KJV#27
===
Our Creator as (from Hebrew, using English) “Yahovah”:
Genesis 3:22 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=22&version=KJV#22
Genesis 6:5 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=6&verse=5&version=KJV#5
===
Our Creator as (from Hebrew, using English) “Adonay”:
Genesis 15:2 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=15&verse=2&version=KJV#2
Genesis 18:3 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=18&verse=3&version=KJV#3
So EKKMAN, you can call me Paul, Mr. Paul, Mr. Abramson, Herr Abramson, Moderator-guy, Indiana Paul, Bub, Hey Slick, Yo Pizza Face, or other names.
In the New Testament, Jesus often refers to our Father in Heaven, as “Father” (from Greek: “pater”). We though are different – we are sons of God, not just a “son of man” as humans (ALL humans after Adam & Eve, as only they were direct creations of God), throughout the O.T.
John 1:12 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.” Our relationship to God is different now.
I came across a web page with a long discussion of YHWH and our Creator’s other names. Perhaps it would be of interest: http://www.seekgod.ca/htname.htm
Yesterday, in another discussion, I quoted the verse (Genesis 4:10) where God tells Cain that “the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground”. Did the blood’s voice use God’s proper name? How important was that to the total communication event?
Go back one step further – Eden:
Genesis 3:9 “And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?”
Genesis 3:10 “And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
It was not, “Adam, where are thou?” And the reply was not, “Elohiym, I heard thy voice in the garden….”
Names are important designations. They hold meaning; they can connote respect or a lack of respect, or a particular characteristic. But we cannot pronounce God’s true name in the first place, right?
“Jehovah-Jireh”, means: The Lord Sees and Will Provide. It is a name with an attribute. Here is another web site with information about our God’s names: http://www.freegrace.net/dfbooks/dfnamesGodbk/NAMES2.htm
On Mars Hill, Paul said: Acts 17:23 “For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.”
Did God, even though they did not know His name, recognize their needs and respond anyway through the Apostle Paul? Knowing His exact proper name was secondary to this situation, at the best, it appears to me.
So, are we done with the SIDE issue?
=====
MAIN Issue – your meanness. Where is the love?
Evolutionists, for example, regularly tell me “over and over” that evolution is true. That does not necessarily persuade me, being told something “over and over”.
What on Earth have you got against learning Hebrew?!
That is a great thing to do! The rest of us can glean from one who has taken the trouble to learn the original language of over half the Bible.
Leave WELDERS WIFE alone, you bully.
(Hey, 3 CROSSES – am I being too direct again?)
There are times when it is important to “keep the main thing the main thing”.
God’s Word is more important that God’s Name. Both are important. But please do not get side-tracked and then come down so hard on one who disagrees with you. Particularly on such a minor thing.
Jesus taught in the Temple during part of His ministry on a daily basis. And yet, He only cleared the tables of the money changers once or twice. Daily, He saw what they were doing.
We PICK AND CHOOSE our battles. Jesus chose to NOT clear the Temple of the money changers – except once (or perhaps twice). Other words and actions of His were more important for Him to do, correct? He would walk past them each day in the Temple. Usually, He elected to NOT interfere with what they were doing, though it was wrong, of course. I am now asking you to please “keep the main thing the main thing”. WWJD?
Is it your intent to hurt WW? … Why the litany of insults you sometimes fling in her direction? Are you in some way mad at all women, so you take it out on her too? Or is it something else?
Matthew 18:6 “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
I do not see a precondition on that – to indicate that the warning only applies to non-believers!
I have seen her use various strategies to try to persuade you to use 2-WAY respect. It appears to me that you want a situation of 1-WAY respect. That never works. It is either 2-WAY or ZERO-WAY, eventually. She even tried getting you to start calling her “Mom” a couple of months back. Still it seems that you routinely discount any and every response from her. Am I wrong? When have you taken the effort to affirm her as a person, as a sister in Christ, and as one who is important? (Point me to a past posting of yours, if I have missed this.)
Not knowing how you are perceiving this message, let me pray to our Creator for you:
“Yahweh, please help this man, who goes by the nickname of EKKMAN to come closer to you. You know his heart and his mind. He, like all of us – NEEDS your help. So many problems in life. He visits this blog almost daily, contributing to a variety of discussions. I pray for wisdom and discernment for him. I pray for the fruits of the spirit to be evident in all his communications with other persons, both here and as he meets persons each day. In the Messiah’s Name I pray, Amen.”
Paul Abramson
Oh, this Scripture (that I mentioned earlier), in Hebrew actually refers to our God as “Yahovah Elohiym”.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=22&version=KJV#22
It is Genesis 3:22, “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…”
PAUL ABRAMSON
1. Said this on March 19th, 2008 at 8:16am:
Dear EUGENE,
I hope that I am not too cynical in this response to your accusations from yesterday.
You wrote: “Eugene Said this on March 18th, 2008 at 2:19pm:
“Judging by the recent posts on this blog, it would appear as if not all Christians are welcome here. I am referring to Isk, Samuel, Pieter and Cookster in particular. I am not sure whether my name will also be added to this list. …”
So, the phrase that I thought of when I scanned your words was “accuser of the brethren”. I looked it up.
Revelation 12:10 “And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
In the middle, “…for the accuser of our brethren…”.
You accused me, as the moderator of this site, and you made blanket accusations against Catholics and the Catholic Church. Why?
Perhaps you are so wise and knowing that anyone who differs with you is automatically wrong?
Did you know that some Presbyterians are not Christians? There are some Methodist churches where the Gospel message is not taught. There are Lutherans who love the Lord; and there are Lutherans who embrace quaint traditions, “loving” homosexuality, and other perverse doctrines.
Harvard University was originally a Bible-believing seminary. They fell from such beliefs. But there are still some Christians who study and learn there.
Mel Gibson, producer of “The Passion of the Christ” is a Catholic, and a very conservative one.
Is your purpose to exclude Catholics, or to win souls for Christ?
Quit your wrestling against flesh and blood, looking for a visible “enemy” to accuse. And in particular, why did you accuse me? Does Cookster start from “Since the Bible is true…” I don’t recall “Samuel” or “Isk” off-hand. Did I block any of their posts…?
For “Pieter” I still need to give him a response from something he did not realize what I was asking him, from a week or so ago. (It involved angels and the Sabbath.)
Bible-believing Christians are welcome here. Accusers are not. Those who twist the Word are not. The unloving and intolerant I monitor more closely.
Please be a learner. Reason with us from the Word. The Bible is our standard for revealed truth. Proverbs 27:17 “Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.”
So, as a fellow wisdom seeker (right?…) let me ask you a question:
Which does God value more highly, His Name? Or His Word?
The answer is here: Psalm 138:2
I find that to be amazing!
Let us act on this.
Paul Abramson
EUGENE responds:
Dear Paul,
I humbly apologize if I have offended you or anyone else on this Blog. This truly was not my intention. I have also not, and never will castigate any individual person irrespective of his or her religion. (I will, however denounce any system which I believe blatantly opposes the Christian Faith, and in this particular case, the Roman papacy).
As a non-rapture believer, I view the Papacy as the antichrist and not the Catholic people as such). I have many friends of different religions including Catholics and SDA’s.
As regards Isk, Samuel, Pieter and Cookster, I found some of the remarks made by Endtimes towards Pieter and Samuel as sometimes too strong and where I felt that you, as moderator, should have intervened.
Once again, my sincere apologies.
TO ENDTIMES:
Peter, you do get fired-up a lot on this blog but please, please, please…..eat a sweet or a cookie before responding to critics.
__________________________________________________________________
TO PHILIP-GEORGE:
Sorry, but I don’t speak or understand Australian!
Kind regards for now.
Eugene.
I’m sorry PA. but I have to
See the sixth letter of the hebrew alphabet. Now is that VAV, or should that be WAW [six = man]
well that “one letter” when going into English characters, “We”, don’t know whether to call it a
“You” or “Double You”,
if God can number the hairs on your head [and every other Head He ever chose to be] and assign a number to clouds I don’t think any of this blog happened by “accident”.
Again, I will cite, light.
It seems to have no dimensions [except when acting as a wave in which case it has an appearance of length], presumably you could pack an infinite amount of it into nowhere because it is massless and dimensionless [has no sort of know volume]; white becomes seven main constituent colours. As a wave light seems to be everywhere at once. It behaves as both a wave and particle (duality of being), for “light” time might be totally stopped, eternally “now”, but for “us” it seems “finite in its motion” and seems to take “time” to do stuff. Our eyes have three different sets of receptors all of which must be activated to perceive white light.
ie. to see white light one must “know” it coming as red, green, blue. White light is actually a combination of lights. There is no wavelength for pure white light. So where does white light exist – only in the mind of man.
But then three prime colour receptors all being activated in different sets gives us 7 main colours, which also gives us one white light. But then it gives us millions of different hues. But then it points to an nearly infinite number of invisible lights {the entire electromagnetic spectrum}
How we see colour, actually, like most thoughts, is a mystery.
The reason I worship God is quite simply because He is.
Is that you PA, or double you?
PA: Jesus could not prove the existence to God. All He could do was, heal the sick, read men’s thoughts, walk on water, control the weather with His voice, raise the dead, speak things into existence out of nothing, kill plant life with a command, prophesy the future, shine like the sun, travel through physical objects, travel instantly, transfigure Himself and resurrect from the dead.
In short PA. there is no proof of the existence of God. At least none that shall satisfy either pseudo scientific semi educated scoffers or religious bigots blinded by one agendum;, different sides of the same roman coinage.
will any carbon 14 exist in a fossilized dino skin. Lets see, if there is none that means the fossil is millions of years old. If there is some that means the fossil is millions of years old and that the specimen is contaminated. Why look anyway when you’ve already found C14 in diamonds which are millions of years old, because they can be dated by the fossil strata near where we found them.
I am writing new rules for the blog. I declare myself the winner. The rules are, I’m right and everyone else is something else. If you agree with the rules everyone here can get along quite well. If you disagree with the new rules you shall be handed over to PA for the duration of the blog.
Where is the way where light dwelleth? {Job 38ish} What a ridiculous thought – everyone knows light is stored in duracel batteries. And according to walt disney comics a light globe is what finally appears on above a man’s head when he finally has a thought worth thinking.
the thought “became” the Word and the Word spoke light into existence – without the mind [not minds] of God who could know it, For God is Light. 1 John 1.5
Paul and Welder’s Wife,
I am putting together an answer to both of you but in the meantime, I wrote John Hinton, Ph.D. and he said,
“The lady that you’re arguing with does not know Hebrew. As for the moderator, I can’t
imagine it being Kent Hovind himself. Hovind would not call God by such a name. Dr.
Hovind was on my mailing list and publishes my articles on evolution. Whoever is running
the website is not a KJV man as Hovind definitely is, and the woman is almost certainly
being directly or indirectly influenced by the Identity Cult. In any event, she doesn’t
know what she is talking about. I’d recommed getting on a creationist group that respects
God’s word and waiting until Hovind himself takes over the blog. I’ll send you an
invitation for one that is KJV-only.
John Hinton”
I also talked with Teno Groppi of a Creation Ministry and he said,
“Ask the moderator if he is KJB and remind him that Dr. Kent Hovind IS KJB and if he is not properly representing Dr. Hovind, perhaps he should work for another ministry.
I haven’t been there much lately. I’ll have to look at it after the weekend.”
Here, there, or in the air!
Teno Groppi
God & Country Center
http://www.baptistlink.com/godandcountry/index.html
I also wrote another man who knows Hebrew and I am waiting for his response. He is the one who disagreed with Welder’s Wife regarding the twisting and turning. Hebrew is not the answer. If we don’t have his word, we are in trouble.
I know that you as well as I can find links on the web that backs up either “YAHWEH” or “YEHOVAH” (JEHOVAH). As I said before I don’t care talking Hebrew, English is my language.
I will be replying to you and Welder’s Wife but I don’t want to be moving in anger as it seems both of you are doing. Just back your beliefs up with the word of God, I do and “YAHWEH” is not in the KJV, “JEHOVAH” is.
Do you have a bible Paul? I surely don’t believe that Welder’s Wife does and if she does what is it? What is your bible? Are you KJB only as Kent Hovind is? If not as the brother said above you are not a good representation to take Kent Hovind’s place. You need to move on to a site that the “main man” in this case Kent Hovind agrees with your beliefs. I couldn’t imagine Kent Hovind believing in “YAHWEH”. I have heard him talk about JEHOVAH but never YAHWEH.
Paul, it is like you tell the evolutionists who don’t agree with the creation message to take their “facts” somewhere else. Well, in regards to YAHWEH, you need to take your “facts” somewhere else. You are moving in anger as well as Welder’s Wife. All I want is answers and I know you can supply links for “YAHWEH” from the new bible perversion junk as well as showing me that the one kicked out of heaven was Jesus Christ based on the new bibles but you would be wrong there as well as you are here with God’s name. You supplied me with some of his real names such as Elohim and whatever and if it lines up with the KJV that is fine but your “YAHWEH” is a false God. You can keep praying to him for me but he won’t hear you. He doesn’t have ears to hear, he is an idol.
Ekkman
Paul,
I forgot to tell you. In regards to God putting his word above all his name. Keep in mind, his word is where we learn of his name, which is JEHOVAH. In closing, God’s name is NOT a minor thing.
Ekkman
Below are the comments of my astronomer friend who knows Hebrew.
“Dear Danny,
Yep, that’s par for the course these days. Here are some ideas and
further references.
It appears that the modern rendering of YHWH stems from the Aramaic
pronunciation. You have to read between the lines in the following
article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahveh
with the link to the Q’re perpetuum article. (Reading between the lines
the Q’re perpetuum article says that the YHVH pronunciation is taken from
a symbol embedded in the Hebrew text to note that the name is not to be
pronounced. See if you understand the article the same way as I.
The Tetragrammaton’s pronunciation can be traced back to well before the
Masoretes in the Latin name Jove, a contraction of Jehovah. The name,
“Jove,” apparently came from the Etruscans, descendent from Resin (Gen.
10:12) who came to Italy (Tuscany) from the city of Resen (Rasena), near
Nineveh. This establishes the name as early as the time of Abraham, if
not earlier. There is more evidence for this origin than for the variants
of YHWH which lies entirely on the assumption that the original texts were
unpointed which, in turn, depends heavily on the apparent lack of pointing
in the Dead Sea scrolls. Recently, however, evidence of pointing was
found in some manuscripts. Much of that evidence is summarized in:
Chester Kulus, “One Tittle,” Emmanuel Baptist Theological Seminary
Journal, vol. 3, no. 1, pp. 77-113, Spring 2007
You might also note that the Heb. letter was vav before it became waw, as
well as changes in pronounciation like Abraham to avraham (involving beth,
the 2nd Heb letter, reflected in our word “alphabet”). These changes
apparently came about from Sephardic Jews, influenced by Spanish which
pronounces “b” as “v” and changes “j” to “h.”
One key to harp on is that the various YHWH forms are held authoritative
because scholars used that form. The scholars referred to were
Alexandrian, meaning they were Egyptian with ties to Greek philosophies.
They changed the N.T. text from vulgar Koine to the scholarly Koine which
involved changing the original text. Their handling of the Hebrew
reflects similar arrogance.
http://www.biblestudy.org/maturart/in-defense-of-jehovah-as-the-name-of-god.html
Finally, note from that reference that yahweh is the name of the Amorite
god, Yahwi, also spelled Yawe or Yahweh.
Ekkman
EUGENE responds: Dear Paul, I humbly apologize if I have offended you or anyone else on this Blog. This truly was not my intention. I have also not, and never will castigate any individual person irrespective of his or her religion. (I will, however denounce any system which I believe blatantly opposes the Christian Faith, and in this particular case, the Roman papacy). As a non-rapture believer, I view the Papacy as the antichrist and not the Catholic people as such). I have many friends of different religions including Catholics and SDA’s. As regards Isk, Samuel, Pieter and Cookster, I found some of the remarks made by Endtimes towards Pieter and Samuel as sometimes too strong and where I felt that you, as moderator, should have intervened. Once again, my sincere apologies.
TO ENDTIMES: Peter, you do get fired-up a lot on this blog but please, please, please…..eat a sweet or a cookie before responding to critics. __________________________________________________________________ TO PHILIP-GEORGE: Sorry, but I don’t speak or understand Australian!
Kind regards for now.
Eugene.
Dear Eugene,
I can only respond in the knowledge of what I know about Seventh Day Adventism and that they are a false gospel with a different Christ, a different authority and a different theology than that which is derived from the Bible alone. (Jude 3) In such, Pieter and Isk have come here with SDA evangelistic materials. If you review you shall see that I have asked them to OPENLY discuss their doctrines here on CSE so all can see and know and understand what they are really propagating. Instead, true to SDA form, they have not in the least defended or discussed their basic doctrines such as Probation, Investigative Judgement, the Great Disappointment, the Seal of God, the Mark of the Beast and other SDA teachings that are completely counter to the Bible.
Yet, Pieter, comes here with a facade of Piety when in fact he does know that the SDA teach that people like you Eugene are in fact the antichrist system by SDA teaching. I would hope that you would read, study and learn of what Pieter and Isk REALLY believe and then after that I do wonder if you will still feel that I have been too harsh on them. Yes, I have spoken with a sharp tongue, yet I have spoken the truth. I would hope that speaking the truth is not something that we should be afraid to do at any time in the name of the Lord.
In kindness,
Peter
To Paul Abramson, It was mentioned earlier that Dr. Hovind was having some health problems. I sincerely pray that he is doing well now.” Is he? Just wanted to let him know that we are still praying for him and a speedy successful appeal on his case.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: I understand that he needs a dental appointment, but it has been over a year and that has not yet been permitted. I want for him to be released and to continue his vital work. Instead he remains in prison. P.A. ]
Dear EKKMAN,
Thank you for your tentative response, as you prepare a longer one.
Maybe … the YHVH name is a stumbling block here. Let me look again.
Well, there it still is, used in Genesis 3:22 (quoted yesterday), and in other verses in Scripture. Strong’s Concordance #03068.
Pronounciation: yeh·ho·vä’
Transliteration: Yĕhovah
Also as: Jehovah = “the existing One”
Usually translated into English as: Lord
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H03068&t=kjv
In Hebrew, it is comprised of 4 consonants (vowels are implied in Hebrew).
The “Y” from the letter “yod”.
The “H” from the letter “he”.
The “V” from the letter “vav”.
The “H” from the letter “he”.
A Hebrew alphabet: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/alephbet.html
Some different spellings of these four letters, as later used in English: Yahweh, Yahwah, Yahawah, Yahovah, Yaheveh, Yehaweh, Yehowah, Yehowih, Yehwih, Yahuweh, Yahueh, Yahuah, Jahveh, Iabe, Iahueh, Iehouah, and Jehovah.
In English I sometimes have called our God, “The Scientific Mathematician” of the universe. As He is the Maker of all that is. And we definitely live in a scientific universe.
Dr. Hovind receives a full copy of all the blog postings. He will read all of this in a couple of weeks.
EKKMAN, please lighten up on Welder’s Wife.
Look, I have some theology and doctrines that are in error. Thank the LORD (“The Scientific Mathematician”) for His forgiveness, and for not giving up on me. You have seen my words and actions in this blog. I can overreact at times. (Hopefully not too often.) But I try to let folks say what they want to.
I believe … that you do not need to “correct” what she writes. And especially it seems like you want to either insult or shutdown her words. Maybe I have read too much into some of the things you have written. Let her state things. I do not want to drive away the few women who are brave enough to post on this forum.
And why should this forum be hostile to women’s opinions? I certainly do not feel that way. Women and men balance each other. That is the way it is supposed to be. Different, complimentary ways of thinking – when used positively.
Dr. Hovind will have a chance to see your full response to whatever you would like to write in response to me, from yesterday.
And note that “I AM THAT I AM” is watching as well.
When folks get sidetracked, the Devil can laugh. Carefully slicing word pronunciations and exact definitions of things, can get us off track.
(For those of you keeping score at home, here is the Exodus 3:14 reference on “I AM THAT I AM” in Hebrew.) http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Exd&chapter=3&verse=14&version=KJV#14
It is not that such things are UNimportant. Far from it! But we need to stay MOST focused on the weightier matters – first and foremost.
Matthew 23:23b [Jesus said] “…the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith…”
Judgment, mercy, and faith.
I want to see love from you. Not carefully correct doctrines – but without love.
1 Corinthians 13:2 “And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”
Paul Abramson
“Giant Marine Life Found in Antarctica”
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VHUTH80&show_article=1
From article: “… Large sea spiders, jellyfish with 12-foot tentacles, huge sea snails and starfish the size of big food platters were found…”
Folks, I started writing this early this morning, as a response to Samphire. …I don’t know – should I continue it? …
Paul
======
Dear Samphire,
In your message yesterday (2-20) you wrote to EndTimes, but I noticed that you mentioned me, and you made a couple of unscientific remarks about a lack of evidence on the side of creation science. So I added 3 links in my short note in order to correct your post.
THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD
EVOLUTION: An explosion from nothing into something for no reason, i.e. the “Big Bang”. Gee, there is a universe with trillions of stars. What a coincidence. Hmm? -Can’t be a Creator, because He might have rules for us to follow. So we think light, gravity, salt water taffy, debauchery, milk cows, and hummus, are all here just by accident. And WE are on the side of science, yup, yup.
CREATION: I AM THAT I AM – decided to fashion a universe one day. He spoke it into existence. We do not have the details. We, on this small, quiet pale blue dot in space, are probably not capable of understanding the details. Who made God? Hike up your britches sonny, and instead try to learn a few of the things that you can understand, if you will apply yourself.
EVOLUTION: Life on Earth is but an accident. There is no purpose to your life. In fact, you have no value. You are worthless in the grand scheme of things. Your life is an accident. Nothing makes any difference. All “proven” by science.
CREATION: On Day Six of Creation God made man in His own image. He was given an environment, food, and some basic rules of what to do. Name the animals; don’t eat from that one tree over there. One man and one woman began the human race. And animals and plants and sea creatures were also created during Creation Week, about 6000 years ago.
EVOLUTION: All on its own gravity figured itself out, stars began to coalesce, light began to shine in the forming galaxies. Laws of heat and angular momentum came into being; what a wondrous random accident! How beautiful it is to be in sin and to blindly ignore the most important part of our lives, by pretending and hoping that we do not have to answer to any Higher Being. Aren’t we homo sapiens sapiens filled with such bulging hubris!
CREATION: Eve and Adam had one rule to obey. An evil one came; he was subtle. He reasoned with Eve. Surely the forbidden fruit looks good, doesn’t it? Oh why should that mean Creator deny them such a tasty treat? He loves them, doesn’t He? So surely it would be okay to try it just once.
EVOLUTION: The Milky Way Galaxy began to form. Hundreds of billions of stars, each massive and alight with fire, all rotating. Together. A symphony of stars. And around one humble star named, Sol, a few inner planets come into being. All by accident, of course. Surely the larger and more complex a system, the less chance that a Higher Being put it all into place. Err, we are not looking for God, and He won’t force Himself on us (during this temporary time of learning and testing on Earth), so we think we can “logically” ignore Him and all. Oh yeah, and this is all really, really scientific thinking! Remember that.
CREATION: They fell! They disobeyed. The evil angel, Lucifer, together with the two humans, were judged. Curses were placed upon them and their respective seeds. From then on the man would have to work by the sweat of his brow. The woman would have increased pain in childbirth. And the angel, with his minion of other disobedient fallen angels, would have a time to flourish – then they will later meet an eternal despair after a subsequent jugment in the future.
EVOLUTION: The primordial Earth, by complete coincidence, formed itself in an almost circular orbit, at the right distance from Sol to have oceans and Sol’s warmth, but not too warm. And a Moon formed around it. What a coincidence. Isn’t random chance wonderful? Chemically each accidental celestial body has a suitable composition for what would come later. What a coincidence.
CREATION: The man and woman were driven out of the perfect garden. They had to build a shelter, make fires, and to forage for food. Soon they planted crops and had a small herd of animals. Then with a family, they taught their sons to do the same.
EVOLUTION: Vulcanism! Dark clouds! Earthquakes! It rained and rained on the rocks, mixing together a primitive organic goo. It was periodically charged by lightening, sloshing onto rocks with the tides caused by the Moon. Mists arose. Loud crashes in the dark. This brew was to gather complexity unto itself, forming ever more complex random molecules.
CREATION: Cain became a farmer. His brother Abel tended a flock of sheep. The Creator, though separated from them, had told them that sacrifice required the shedding of blood. Their parents had seen death for the first time on the day that they had sinned. God had made them coats of skin to clothe their nakedness. Man had sinned. The penalty for sin is death. So: Man caused Death.
EVOLUTION: Death caused Man. For billions of years life arose, bubbling into existence, mutating and increasing in complexity. Such a marvelous wonder. Random accidents produce such great things! Hey, we are scientific in our thinking. Don’t carefully construct something. Heck, no. Just throw stuff together at random. Yeah, it’s fun. That is how life on Earth arose. There is no God to answer to. Keep mentally hiding. Think short-term. Have fun now. Pretend with us. Sure, you will die someday. But that is far away. Let’s all believe strong enough that evolution happened.
CREATION: Abel gave a sacrifice to God. As a sinner, a man with faults, he came to God and asked for help. But Cain offered some of his crops. He offered from among the best of his harvest. God did not accept that. God makes the rules; not man.
EVOLUTION: You are no better than a worm. In fact, humans have overpopulated the planet. Humans are like a virus when you think about it. Their lives make no difference. Let us ponder a wonder. Meditate on this thought: “Survival of the fittest”. It is a responsibility, isn’t it? Think about how we can help this to happen. Only the fittest should survive. You should survive. But what about them? Can we, like evolutionists Hitler and Mussolini give evolution a little help along its way? We are “The Master Race”, we are superior. They are like a virus, unneeded, unwanted. Let us improve things.
CREATION: Cain was enraged. How dare God not accept his offering. But he could not strike God directly. He is too powerful. Wait, there is one He loves nearby. A brother, made in God’s image. Perhaps the anger could be taken out on him! Who is Abel? He is younger. He is less. Should the weak survive or not?
EVOLUTION: …
PA:-
Jesus could not prove the existence to God. All He could do was, heal the sick, read men’s thoughts, walk on water, control the weather with His voice, raise the dead, speak things into existence out of nothing, kill plant life with a command, prophesy the future, shine like the sun, travel through physical objects, travel instantly, transfigure Himself and resurrect from the dead.
Perhaps the greatest miracle of all though was forbearance in the face of insult. Patience with the ignorant.
PA:- a recurrent nagging thought with me is “If Elijah and Noah and Enoch, just for example, were so great why didn’t they get more people ‘saved’ in their respective generations?”
these were all great men but it was the man Jonah, the runaway, who managed to get an entire city to repent. That is an irony. [then He was peeved when God didn't kill them all]
its a shame Eugene doesn’t talk Australian, perhaps I could ask Carl or baliset to translate for me.
David danced into Jerusalem in a loin cloth. Theologically I would have an easier time with that passage if He were stark naked. A Prophet marries a whore, another one walks naked for three years, another [ezekial] lies on one side for how many days
You see PA, nothing works. Try establishing a ministry of spitting in mud to heal blind people. try establishing a ministry of getting axe heads to float. try making boats move at the speed of light or thought or quantum will? try just calling women ‘dogs’. try calling your best friend ‘satan’.
the question is ‘how many fools can dance on the end of a keyboard’?
I am not going to talk down to you by trying to make narrow little theological statements that everyone can agree on. Peter was naked in the boat when Jesus appeared on the shore. Naked you came into this world naked you leave it. People here would no more pray to God while naked than they would walk into a high school speech night with nothing on.
men are still reaching for the theological fig leaf. Sinners trying to justify themselves on the basis of their “science, falsely so called” where science means “knowledge”. from dust to dust.
do justice, love mercy and walk humbly before God. Hallelujah. [Jah - psalm 68.4?]
[Like He came into Jerusalem fulfilling Daniel to the minute I believe He shall return with perfect timing. -the calendar is one key - a four year mistake could put us right on the money. I don't know if Ussher wasn't propagating a mistake from Gregory's calendar/ delegated charter for dating things. it is certainly a much more important question than what is the galactic distribution of quasars]
Dear Welder’s Wife,
Melbourne has 3+ million people. yesterday I rode a push bike a few miles to a park; was planning to just ride through it, but rode up to a woman sitting on a park bench and asked her if she was reading from Isaiah. In my mind it was a joke (of sorts) to someone whom I suspected, on the inside of me, was reading from a bible. It turned out she was reading from Isaiah and Psalms. she’s doing bible translation studies at a missionary institute that does a lot of translation work into small people group dialects.
out of a city of three million I landed on an egg, to help hatch something – it took her a few seconds but she understood the joke.
she is a white western woman, but married to an indonesian man.
one of the things we got to discussing was suicide. in many third world cultures youth suicide is just about non existent. a lot of dirt poor people embrace life with vigor. they are too poor to get depressed, they live in extended families and tribal networks that just look out for each other.
your niece is a tragedy and on the balance of probabilities you probably feel like some of her blood is on your own hands.
Youth suicide is an indictment on the sickness of the entire western world. a sickness that runs deep.
a british journalist by the name of Phillip Day, world tours lecturer, research sponsor, has written a book on the criminality of the Health Profession. He is one source if you would like to get a window of insight into just how bad medicine can get.
http://www.credencegroup.co.uk/ozstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10
I suggest you take tour of the entire website.
In a city of three million, it turned out that I used to work with this woman’s husband, I had never met her and she had only married him recently. God knows, God makes the appointments ………
Until 1582, New Years Day in the Christian calendar was celebrated on March 25th, a date which coincided closely with the beginning of the first Jewish month (Nissan), i.e., the beginning of Passover and Easter.
In 1582, Pope Gregory XIII moved New Years Day to January 1st when he initiated the Gregorian calendar. Britain did not accept this change until 1752. Russia adopted it in 1918, and Turkey in 1927.
PA:
why wasn’t I taught this stuff in high school. well, if you were, lawyers might not be able to make money out of you with their secrets about how money and law work, hand in hand. I’m sorry PA. I can’t talk about the details of that ANNO LUCIS secret handshake stuff. but if you do get an invitation to join a club where you mock slitting your own throat if you divulge secrets, I suggest you don’t, I never did, because I thought Jesus might not be impressed. And I didn’t want to damn my own soul to hell for a fraternity of knowledge bound earth bound slaves.
If Michael Rood, is right, and it might be the only thing he is right about, new years day this year, “Anno Mundi 6007-6008″ might be about April 05, for Nissan 01, 6008.
I have a few silver shekel weights, pure silver, minted from the royal perth mint, a few years ago. they are the closest thing I have probably ever seen to being real money.
Dear pabramson
Please ask you buddy EndTimes to do some research on Ron Wyatt. Why is Ron’s discoveries included in your creation seminar series?
Kindness
Pieter
Dear 4truthsetsufree – Pieter,
Let me first mention that this is a blog where STRONG opinions and perspectives are expressed. But as for myself, I have been known to be WRONG sometimes, and I presume such from other fallen sinners who participate here as well.
We are each imperfect. And … we each have a frame of reference. And … the participants here are not “monolithic” in views.
Pieter, I sincerely hope that even when folks strongly disagree, that we can still be open to learning new views, as long as they do not disagree with Scripture.
A couple of months before Hurricane Katrina (almost 3 years ago), I was down in New Orleans for a weekend. In the morning I went to my friend’s Protestant church. Good Bible teaching. But … later that afternoon, at a Catholic school’s graduation – that was where they focused on the fact that it was Pentecost that day!
It was such a contrast. I think that many “Baptists” (…to generalize) tend to downplay the importance of Pentecost. That was the birth of the Church. Jesus left, so the Holy Spirit could come!
John 16:7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
To my understanding, I would agree with EUGENE that the official Catholic Church structure is corrupt. Such a vehicle can be used for evil. But isn’t that potentially true for any human institution? (Harvard was originally a Christian seminary. But no more.)
Wasn’t the Temple system corrupt in Jesus’ day? And yet He taught there daily during a part of His ministry. The official leadership, the Sanhedrin wanted Him killed. And yet … He praised the poor widow who gave two cents (Mark 12:41-44) into their treasury. Her responsibility was to give as best as she knew how. What the Temple leaders did with the money later, was the responsibility of others. (Also, John 19:11, where Jesus compares Pilate’s responsibility in judging Him.)
There are some Catholics who have come to know Jesus as their Savior. As possible, I am a man who wants to work with them as fellow believers!
====
Thank you for your comment about Ron Wyatt.
Here is the link to the Wyatt Museum: http://www.wyattmuseum.com/
I had the privilege of participating in their August 2006 archaeological dig in Jerusalem with the Wyatt team (see web page above). We were living in Jerusalem for the entire month.
Many of the participants were vegetarians. Many worshiped on Saturday. There is a small 7th Day Adventist Church in Jerusalem. I visited it one Saturday (…and made a nuisance of myself in the Sabbath School class).
Let me go back further in time. About 9 years ago when I first moved from Oregon down to Berkeley, California, I wrote to almost all the churches in Berkeley. I sent a letter introducing myself as new to the community, a Bible-believing Christian, and that I would like to visit their church sometime.
29 churches! I wrote to almost 30 churches. …Do you know that only 2 of them wrote back. Almost all the churches in Berkeley are spiritually dead. They would rather preach on the environment or homosexuality or weird left-wing politics, than on anything from the Bible. They are dead.
But two church pastors wrote back! …So that was where I started. It was not the Methodists, the Presbyterians, or Catholics, or Baptists. The two pastors who wrote back to me were the 7th Day Adventist and the Quaker (Friends Church) pastors. With each, I had lunch with them, and discussed that (unique, academic) city. -How could we reach them for Christ! Each pastor had a burden to somehow reach Berkeley for the Lord.
Pastor Harold, of the SDA church invited me to speak to their college group. He advertised a special class to the church where I spoke one afternoon. And he and I worked together on a few other occasions in the community and on campus.
====
One interesting Catholic leader who had a few odd things in his theology was Martin Luther. But yet, God used him mightily!
I have learned that the Lord can and will use folks with imperfect theology and imperfect doctrines. They are important! But they are not the MOST important things in a man. God looks on the heart.
1 Samuel 16:7b “…for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.”
Of all the learned Jewish leaders whom Jesus could have picked for His core group of disciples, instead He chose twelve average men. Some fishermen, a tax collector, and other tradesmen.
Does God want us to firstly become experts in theology and precise doctrines? Or does God want us to develop character, the fruits of the spirit, first and foremost?
Paul Abramson
Ekkman – on March 21st, 2008 at 9:24am; wrote:
“… Do you have a bible Paul? I surely don’t believe that Welder’s Wife does and if she does what is it? What is your bible? Are you KJB only as Kent Hovind is? If not as the brother said above you are not a good representation to take Kent Hovind’s place. You need to move on to a site that the “main man” in this case Kent Hovind agrees with your beliefs. I couldn’t imagine Kent Hovind believing in “YAHWEH”. I have heard him talk about JEHOVAH but never YAHWEH. …”
EKKMAN, Let us look at why Scripture has been given to us, and its proper place in our lives.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
So – for: doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction. Then … we’ll be properly furnished unto all good works.
Good works do NOT get us to Heaven. But they are expected if we are acting according to Christ’s teachings. “Good works” includes HOW you treat others.
James 2:16-19 “And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”
Actions speak louder than words.
First Commandment – Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Second Commandment – Love your neighbor as yourself.
Love is not a feeling; it is a decision to think and act in a certain way.
EKKMAN, how you treat others is important.
Don’t be self-centered. You espousing doctrines all the day long may make you feel good, but if that is all you do, then you are off-balance, spiritually speaking.
When was it that you were bludgeoning COOKSTER with Bible doctrines? That was back in Dec. or Jan., wasn’t it? He finally replied at one point that he was leaving – and yet – you still made a half dozen more long, strong posts against things he had written. Why?
Recently, when EUGENE made his posting and mentioned COOKSTER, … I recalled this.
It could be my failing as a moderator, for not reading your postings more closely!
Even if I think that I am letting folks (self-moderate and) say what they want to – perhaps I have needed to be more careful about a few folks who like to (…?) verbally abuse others as a daily habit?
It is nice to be right all the time. (…I would not know myself, but so I have heard anyways.)
Why … would you ask me IF I have a Bible?
====
POP QUIZ!
Okay, Jesus gave us a way to determine who belongs to Him. He taught this within the Sermon on the Mount.
He stated that “we would know them by their _______.”
a. Gifts
b. Miracles
c. Doctrines
d. Fruits
e. Big Church Size
Jesus said: (Matthew 7:15) “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
We are told to BEWARE! On the outside, what we humans see, they may look calm, smart, charming, and cultured. Yet their hearts are as ravening wolves. We are told to beware of such men!
Then … He tells us exactly HOW to spot such men. It is in: Matthew 7:16-23
We are told exactly what to look for. This is not optional; Jesus expects us to do this!
====
As I have asked you for a couple of days now, please be less judgmental of WELDERS WIFE’s postings. (I do not know her at all, except through this blog. In fact I have not met any of the blog’s participants, except for one or two in the past who have stated such.)
Lash out at me from now on if you need someone to … “ask IF I (even) have a Bible” … or other such nonsense.
-Pick on someone your own size!
Learning Hebrew is a good thing.
Jesus spoke Hebrew.
He, the King of the Jews, will reign from Jerusalem during the Millennium.
Hebrew, by the way, is a language replete with puns and depth in meanings. Down through the ages the Rabbis have made acrostics (either using the first letters of each word, or with equi-distant letter sequences).
(I had to borrow a Bible, in order to look up the verses below.
DOHH! Err, never mind…
John 19:19-20 “And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.”
Pilate, the official representative of the most powerful government on Earth at the time, wrote that! Isn’t that interesting? (…So Pilate must have learned some Hebrew too, by the way, right?)
One thing interesting about the Hebrew for “JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS” is that the first letters of the words spells out: YHWH.
====
If your planned long, strong postings that you are working up against me are similar to the ones you hit COOKSTER with a few months ago … well, you can post a few of them. -But mostly, just save it.
Let us deal with the primary things first. The fruits of the Spirit are most important.
In the Garden of Eden – it was the fruits from each tree that were focused upon. The bark and leaves are important, but secondary.
In the New Testament as well, believers are PRIMARILY to produce fruit! (In many parables Jesus referred to humans in terms of a vineyard, as sheep, a particular crop, etc.)
Galatians 5:22 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
The demons know some good doctrines too. (from above, James 2:19) “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”
Doctrines are not primary. Jesus did NOT say, “You will know them by their doctrines.” No, there is a different standard that He has given us.
I am not asking you for perfect doctrines. I am asking you to present some fruits of the spirit, so that we may know what kind of a man you are.
Paul Abramson
4truthsetsufree
Said this on March 21st, 2008 at 11:05pm:
Dear pabramson
Please ask you buddy EndTimes to do some research on Ron Wyatt. Why is Ron’s discoveries included in your creation seminar series?
Kindness
Pieter
Dear Pieter,
Hmmm, is this an issue that we were “trying” to discuss? I will leave Paul’s choices to Paul.
Now, have you had a chance to look over the many posts I have given on SDA doctrines and how they differ from the Bible? Once again, will you or will you not OPENLY discuss Probation, The Investigative Judgement, The Seal of God, the Mark of the Beast, Where America is in Bible prophecy, the Rapture and the many other SDA doctrines that cannot in any fashion be justified from the Bible. Now, for about a month, I have challenged you and any SDA promoter to OPENLY discuss your doctrines, and your reply to my many posts is to question why Paul Abramson posted a link to Ron Wyatt? Well, still waiting for ANY SDA person to come forward and defend their strange doctrines and unbiblical teachings openly.
In kindness,
Peter
Eugene
Said this on March 18th, 2008 at 2:19pm:
——————————————————————————–
Judging by the recent posts on this blog, it would appear as if not all Christians are welcome here. I am referring to Isk, Samuel, Pieter and Cookster in particular. I am not sure whether my name will also be added to this list.
Geno:
I would agree that not all Christians are welcome here. But, then, we need to agree on what makes one a Christian, don’t we? It seems that if one is branded as a “skeptic”, then anything one submits will be either censored or blocked completely. This is true even if it does not challenge the claimed premis of this list: “Since the Bible is true”, does not challenge a literal Genesis, and does not touch on “evil-oo-shun” in any way. It is even true when the claims presented are supported by statements from creationist Christian ministries. It seems that the primary consideration is whether or not the posts dispute allegations made by the esteemed moderator.
I make the above comment based on my personal experience and it is why I have stopped even attempting to post to this blog. It is frustrating to spend an hour or so researching and documenting eroneous claims made by Mr. Abramson only to have your post end up in the bit bucket.
**********
for Jesus’ name: Phillip-George (c)1974
Said this on March 18th, 2008 at 4:24pm:
——————————————————————————–
Eugene, lightning fast knee jerk, its not that lsk, Pieter aren’t welcome here. Maybe! Maybe? they have given up on us, walking away thinking they can’t win us over to their superior reading of the text. DQ + a few others were edited off the pages for limited times when their words descended into a stream of the bitter/ acerbic/
Samphire seems to have drifted away saying there are things He is not at liberty to discuss. darling doesn’t seem to want to pursue all that vigorously the notion that the constitution/ early America was not founded on Christianity – no-one pushed them off the pages or screamed them down, or barricaded them out
Geno:
That is simply not true.
Not once have I insulted anyone on this list. There ARE things we are “not at liberty to discuss” (or even question) and Mr. Abramson does not hesitate to censor and/or block posts to enforce that. In doing so, there are a number of us who have been “barricaded” out.
Any “bitterness” you see here is simply the result of frustration at having posts blocked for no (apparent) reason than they disagree with claims made by Mr. Abramson. This is true even when the comments are supported with documentation from creationist sources.
************
Jason
Said this on March 18th, 2008 at 7:22pm:
——————————————————————————–
As far as I can see the history of this blog has welcomed people with far more contrary views than the ones that you are highlighting.
Geno:
That’s only because you never see the many posts that are completely blocked.
**************
pabramson
Said this on March 19th, 2008 at 8:16am:
——————————————————————————–
Bible-believing Christians are welcome here. Accusers are not. Those who twist the Word are not. The unloving and intolerant I monitor more closely.
Geno:
Right. Even though you point out yourself that there can be honest disagreements about what the Bible means based of differing interpretations. (Note: The “Word” of God is His Son, Jesus Christ. The “word” of God is the Bible.)
************
EndTimes
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 1:49pm:
——————————————————————————–
Once again, you are quite incorrect. CSE has allowed much diversity to be expressed here so why would Eugene, Cookster, Isk or yourself not be able to so state politiely any argument that you wish to. In fact, the record is that you have been allowed this.
Geno:
Only the “record” that you have been allowed, by Mr. Abramson, to see. A number of my arguments, stated politely, and documented from creationist Christian ministries have been completely blocked.
**************
pabramson
Said this on March 22nd, 2008 at 8:27am:
——————————————————————————–
Let me first mention that this is a blog where STRONG opinions and perspectives are expressed. But as for myself, I have been known to be WRONG sometimes, and I presume such from other fallen sinners who participate here as well.
We are each imperfect. And … we each have a frame of reference. And … the participants here are not “monolithic” in views.
Pieter, I sincerely hope that even when folks strongly disagree, that we can still be open to learning new views, as long as they do not disagree with Scripture.
***********
Geno:
I completely agree with all of this. Like Mr. Abramson, I have been known to be wrong sometimes, and I am imperfect.
That said, is the moderator really willing to allow the expression of other views “as long as they do not disagree with Scripture”?
[EDITOR’S NOTE: Oh, very interesting!
Peter, please correct me on this, (and I see you have a couple more messages below that I have not read yet, but) my understanding is that there is a break between Week 69 and Week 70 (as you typed above).
Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city…”
Then … probably something that not even the angels (able to read and study our Scriptures, of course) foreknew!
The “Mystery of the Church” and this whole “New Testament” period, the “times of the Gentiles”….
Romans 11:25 “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.”
The conclusion of Week 69: the Messiah rode into Jerusalem; He was received as King - but then … Crucified. “Messiah ben Joseph”; the suffering servant. He left and sent the Holy Spirit. Pentecost! And for about a generation after Christ’s Resurrection and Ascension, Israel continued - then the Romans destroyed it, killing about 1 million Jews! It was a horrific starvation and slaughter. (The Christian converts had mostly left Jerusalem ahead of the Roman army, as they knew of Christ’s prophecies in: Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21).
Luke 21:20a “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, …”
Now - Israel is a nation again as of 1948! To my understanding (…if correct…?) the “times of the Gentiles” are coming to completion. And they regained control of Jerusalem in 1967. Another miracle. About a generation has passed, or that will be the case soon.
Soon … the “70th Week” … will begin. Does this basically correlate with your understanding? … (…I should go back to your web page again soon - shouldn’t I?)
SEPARATE APOLOGY - I could not get across town (writing this note on Friday, 3-21, early afternoon), due to flooding on major roads here. Sorry that I am moderating so late today!
(I usually try to view and approve messages each morning and again each evening, at least twice daily, except for Sundays.) P.A. ]
Dear Paul,
Yes, the 70th week shall be completed during the tribulation of which there is much to be so stated on this issue. This is a very well documented doctrine from many Christian apologists with direct scriptural support despite the false teachings of the SDA who dismiss the “secret” rapture and so state that the rapture itself comes from the Roman Catholic Church. No, the idea and doctrine of the rapture comes from the word of God starting first in Leviticus chapter 23 and the day of Trumpets.
I have gone over this material myself and especially that of the times of the Gentiles. In brief, the statue in Daniel chapter two represents the entire timeline of the times of the Gentiles starting with Nebuchadnezzer. The most important message to be taken home about the times of the Gentiles is that of the 4th beast and the mystery and secrets behind this beast. It is the 6th kingdom of Revelation chapter 17 that “is.” What is most important to understand is that the Roman Empire did not fall and go away as commonly taught in 476 AD, it instead “evolved” into a theocracy under the head of the Pope and it still is. This is the most important key piece of information to be able to understand the global government of today.
Many people get quite troubled when discussing the “one world goverment” that so many fear. The “news” from the Bible is that we have HAD a one world government for over 2000 years. It is the Roman Empire, now in the form of the Roman Catholic Church that is the 4th beast of Daniel and the 6th kingdom of Revelation chapter 17. Yes, this is the most important single truth to learn about the times of the Gentiles. If this simple fact is not appreciated, then the entire subject of Bible prophecy will be distorted and out of focus for that person to understand. Thus, I do believe that my three basic discussions on the times of the Gentiles linked below is a good starting place to then go back to the Bible and prove all things yourself. That is the test, what does the Bible state itself. If my work has any utility, it is to show where the many dispensational authors have in my mind deceived and distracted their readers from seeing what God has truly communicated to us from the Bible alone. Unfortunately, there is such a concerted effort in so many aspects of our life preaching false end times doctrines from the economy, the world politics and many theologians of diverse denominations that anyone that does not put on blinders to those things and instead look through the light of the Truth as found ONLY in the Bible, I do believe that they will be deceived by the devil just as we are warned from the Bible.
So, once again, I have documented my own personal discoveries from the Bible alone on my website and I compare and contrast that with the many false doctrines commonly taught and accepted in the majority of our churches today. Yes, I do believe the Bible when we are warned that there will be GREAT deception at the time of the end. Yes, even within our churches. Yet, there is a cure for deception, but only if you will embrace it above all other authority alone. Unfortunately, most people become quite emotionally attached to their churches teachings that correcting errors even from the Bible becomes a very tedious and difficult battle.
Thus, most will place their trust in a so called expert or authority over what the Bible itself so states. This is the test, trust God, trust man’s interpretations of that word even if it can be shown to be contradictory to the Bible. The majority of people today will side with their own elders, teachers, authors and denominational positions. May the Lord open the eyes of all through His Holy Word.
In Christ’s name,
Peter
http://www.kjv1611revealed.com/Slide03.html
http://www.kjv1611revealed.com/Slide04.html
http://www.kjv1611revealed.com/Slide05.html
pabramson
Said this on March 21st, 2008 at 2:58pm:
——————————————————————————–
“Folks, I started writing this early this morning, as a response to Samphire. …I don’t know – should I continue it? …”
TC: Paul I really like your overview of the religion of evolution. There are however a couple of points I think you may have missed. The religion does teach that the “Big Bang”(the name of their supernatural creator?) created all things from nothing by chance, but it doesn’t teach that the “processes”(the name for all their lesser deities?) came into being over time. According to Stephen Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time” all of these “deities”(gravity, heat, quantum mechanics etc..) popped out of the “Big Bang all at once. Like Athena in Mediterranean mythology. I think Stephen Hawking is a brilliant man who has accomplished many things, but a lot of his time has been wasted, on the assumption that the religion of evolution is true and not on verifiable data(this is my opinion).
Back to Paul yes I like the project. If you do finish it and don’t publish it. Email it to me.
With love and limited input three crosses
“Folks, I started writing this early this morning, as a response to Samphire. …I don’t know – should I continue it? …
Paul”
Only if you enjoy tossing strawmen out and exposing just how little understanding you have of the other side of the debate despite your constant exhortations for those who are not Creationists to study Creationism before commenting. I believe, sir, you should follow your own advise. For a self proclaimed authority on the issue of Creationism and evolution to display such breathtaking inanity in describing the other side’s position is truly sad.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Dr. Hovind has done 100 debates. 20 are on DVDs and available for anyone to view.
http://shopping.drdino.com/category-exec/category_id/36/nm/Debate
Hiding evolutionists - keep losing the debates; they're exposed. You mislead others into believing your flat-Earth doctrines, and then you perish in your sins yourselves. Exposing your beliefs for what they are underneath is a proper thing to do.
If you choose to hide from God yourself (i.e. believe in evolution) it is your right in this life. But once you seek to also persuade others to also mentally hide - you become the priest of a false religion. P.A. ]
Geno
Said this on March 22nd, 2008 at 10:40am:
Jason
Said this on March 18th, 2008 at 7:22pm:
——————————————————————————–
As far as I can see the history of this blog has welcomed people with far more contrary views than the ones that you are highlighting.
Geno:
That’s only because you never see the many posts that are completely blocked.
…….
…………..is the moderator really willing to allow the expression of other views “as long as they do not disagree with Scripture”?
//////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Hi Geno,
I am really sorry that you have felt frustrated in not being able to express your views fully.
I would like to reiterate my belief that P.A. has (In the past, at least) been very open to allow people to express their views. For about a year there was a raging debate on Creation vs Evolution & Tax Law. Yes I know you would be correct in saying that I didn’t see all the posts that didn’t make it past the moderator. However many posts did.
(As far as I know) the truth is that Paul Abramson has free reign to allow or refuse any post just as he pleases.
So the fact that the debate(s) existed at all, and especially for such a long time, is testimony to the fact that people’s views were tolerated.
My entry onto this blog was quickly followed by a crushing defeat on the subject of Tax Law, by ‘darling’. I don’t believe that Paul Abramson used any executive power to ease the learning curve that I met at the time.
I would therefore say that, in my belief, Paul Abramson (with all his (self admitted) faults) does try to be fair to allow people to express their views (even though he doesn’t have to).
Judging by Pauls recent posts………; the primary scripture that ‘one’ should agree with is that of “Love”. I don’t know what you wrote that Paul didn’t like, but this observation on scripture might be helpful in the way you write your posts in future.
……………
One last observation, the freedom to express thoughts and opinions which are contrary to the views of the management, has been far more tolerated on this site than anywhere else that I’ve have ever known.
Lots of love
Jason x
the “six day” war started June 5, 1967
May 14, 1948 Israel becomes a modern nation [as recognised by many other nations] – so May this year marks 60 years from then, it is an anniversary year (ie. entering the seventh decade soonish); three score and TEN.
it is worth reminding yourself of the difference between the use of “1″ or “0″ as a datum line.
so both these dates are well within a generation if you take it to mean “three score and ten [70years]” or “by reason of strength they be fourscore years [80years]
i haven’t thoroughly dissected it but there are excellent reasons to believe both 70 and 80 are significant signal years for the marking of a generation worth watching for:-
http://www.bibletime.com/theory/generation/
but lets just say that the retaking of Jerusalem and the temple mount was important to God and that the very name, “6 day war”, was given to man as a reminder of a particular creative event.
June 5-12, this year, would mean one completed year outside a completed forty year period. Will God do something significant before any babies born immediately after that 6day war turn 41 – and the very minimum way in which a generation is numbered starts “passing away”.
the “biblical man” ready to fight for Israel had to be at least 20y.o., 20 years and upwards were to be numbered as ready for war. see Numbers 1.3
thus; the “very last” of those who are “20 years and upward” around May 1948 are now very fast approaching their 80th birthday – there are not many of that generation left who haven’t turned 80.
It is an interesting convergence of numbers.
the dates kinda point to AM 6008 being a big year, even the period May through June/July.
When Jesus said, don’t tell me its 4 months away, He might have had several applications in Mind, so let this Mind {singular} be in you which was in Christ.
the projected date for trumpet blasts and shouting is around Oct 02, this year 6008 [PA, I shall keep referring to this pending yr as AM6008 until any better information becomes available]
PA:- if you were to wake up one day and the electricity was out and you fired up a generator and found that the entire internet was down; it might just cause you to consider these things in a new way. cheers,
Jesus stayed with the friends of the woman at the well about 2 days.
Br. Phillip-George, from the biblical ends of the earth [(C)1974- 2008, all rights reserved]
[EDITOR'S NOTE: No electricity, no Internet. Well ... actually I would first assume that perhaps America had been hit by an EMP. Game over. No one (it seems) is discussing it; and no one seems to be concerned. But a single jacketed nuclear warhead, exploded high over the US East Coast could take out all power and communications as far west as Ohio or Indiana.
Ezekiel 39:6 "And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD."
In Hebrew: http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Eze&chapter=39&verse=6&version=KJV#6
With power out all water and gas pumps would cease. No water, no electricity, no gas, and no way to distribute food. The end of the USA. The phrase "...among them that dwell carelessly..." could also be translated as "...among them that dwell in false confidence...."
http://www.swissamerica.com/article.php?=SID&art=02-2006/200602131133f.txt
(Finally this week, after years of virtual silence, there is something in the left-wing media: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,841540,00.html ) P.A. ]
pabramson Said this on March 21st, 2008 at 2:58pm:
“EVOLUTION: An explosion from nothing into something for no reason… Can’t be a Creator, because He might have rules for us to follow…
CREATION: On Day Six of Creation God made man in His own image… about 6000 years ago.
I stopped reading at that point. I remembered you said in the previous thread:
“On this blog – we start with: “Since the Bible is true…”
But even this frame, humans … disagree on how to best understand the Bible’s truths!”
As you know, plenty of people accept both evolution as well as a Creator. You may disagree with their understanding of the Bible’s truths, but can one honestly say that they deny a Creator entirely?
I suspect the rest of your post to Samphire consists of similar straw men intended to support a false dichotomy of “no God” or “6,000 year-old-Creation”.
While this may have some value to those who already hold Young-Earth view, I suspect those who don’t, regardless of their belief in God, will recognize it for what it truly is. So, even though you might be 100% correct in your conclusions, as an evangelistic tool it’s next to worthless.
Different Learning Styles: A Teacher’s Perspective of The Body of Christ.
As a teacher/educator of children I learned that kids have different learning styles. It’s one of those things that is very helpful to know when picking out a curriculum for an individual student. There are a variety of approaches to the subject, but the one that I’m going to deal with here has to do with brain dominance. And there’s technical terminology, but I’m going to use the non-technical so that, hopefully, everyone can understand what I’m talking about.
Picture the brain as a rectangle box divided into 4 equal sections. [Even though our heads aren’t in the shape of a rectangle, the brain actually is divided into 4 sections. There’s 2 sections on one side & 2 on the other.] Now starting from the outside box of the left hand side of your diagram, label the first box ‘far left brained’, the next box ‘middle left brained’, the 3rd box ‘middle right brain’, and the forth box ‘far right brained’.[It would be helpful if you draw this out on a piece of paper before you read the rest of what I’m about to say. And leave some extra room to add some more information to each box.] In the first box labeled ‘far left brain’ also write ‘Matthew’. In the ‘middle left brained’ box write ‘John’. In the ‘middle right brained’ box write ‘Luke’. In the ‘Far Left Brained’ box write ‘Mark’. [That will give you some personalities to work with.]
Out of these 4 sections of the brain, one section will be stronger than the other 3. The strongest section rules over the other 3 in the kingdom of the brain. This is called a learning style. OK, let’s put some more stuff in each box:
FAR LEFT BRAINED:
Matthew. In the classroom these types of learners like the desks in rows with the professor standing in front of the room lecturing, with all the students quiet & attentive to the speaker. If they could, they’d nail ‘jellow’ to the wall! [How do I say that in Australian? The stuff that forms when you pour hot water over jelly-crystals, after the jelly-crystals dissolve & cool down, & then set. They want to nail those types of things to the wall!!] For example, if they are traveling somewhere, they will plan the trip 6 months in advance & know were they are going to eat breakfast, lunch & dinner on every single day of the trip. And they will know at what time they are suppose to arrive at each step of their destination! Rabbit trails are forbidden!!!
They like absolutely everything about them to be in order.
Academic strengths: Math, science, research, playing musical instruments. But they don’t have any creativity of their own…. They borrow it from other people!
MIDDLE LEFT BRAINED:
John. These guys like the above classroom scenario but they would rather the teacher be a parent type figure that they have a good relationship with instead of a college professor who remains a stranger. They learn best by repetition.
Academic strengths: They can handle a wide range of subjects, but their best is History. Not only do they do well at academic history, but they do well with all kinds of categories of ‘History’. Family history, Bible History, National History, you name it. ‘History’ catches their attention. They might not remember the exact dates, but they’ll remember the gist of the story & how it applies. They are also very creative on their own initiative, whether it’s making something into a craft item, or a Lego creation, or writing a story, or solving a problem of any kind that needs a creative mind to solve it. They tend to be independent thinkers. They’re not necessarily going to go with the flow!
MIDDLE RIGHT BRAINED:
Luke. These guys are multi-taskers. They can read a book, listen to the tv, & carry on a conversation all at the same time!!! They love ‘volumes’ of words. They’re the ‘brain stormers’. They will listen to a bunch of different people’s ideas & then pick out the one that works the best. They’re fair minded.
Academic strengths: English, Research.
FAR RIGHT BRAINED:
Mark. These guys despise class rooms where the desks are in rows & the teacher stands in front. They prefer the chairs to be arraigned in a circle so that everyone can interact & the teacher be a friend who interacts on a friendship basis. They are spontaneous. For example, if they are driving down a road with a destination in mind, & they see a sign on the side of the road that looks interesting, they are most likely to diverge from their original destination & go exploring down that rabbit trail…. And they may or may not eventually go back to their intended goal, depending on how many rabbit trails lead off from the main rabbit trail. In the class room, these are the students who are always finding an excuse to get out of their seats & go socialize with the rest of the students!! [If you tape their mouths shut, they’ll talk with their hands & their facial expressions!!] They learn best by total participation in whatever is going on.
Academic strengths: Art, drama, music; These guys ooze with creativity!
[Good books on the subject: ‘Transformed Temperaments’ by Tim LaHaye, & ‘The Way They Learn’ by Cynthia Ulrich Tobias. It seems like I remember Gary Smalley having a book on the subject too, but I don’t remember which one. There’s a lot of information out there if you go looking for it. If you plan to home school, it’s a great idea to look into learning styles, because different curriculums cater to select learning styles.]
How does this apply to the Body Of Christ & various brands of churches? Churches & denominations tend to cater to different learning styles. Think about it… Churches with liturgies who repeat the Apostle’s Creed every week drill doctrine into their people. The same things happen with singing the same hymns over & over again. That targets Left Brained Learning Styles. Churches that are less formal…like the ones that meet in bistros & cafes, & Cowboy Churches tend to reach out to the Far Right Brainers! Four hour Passover Seders & celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles where there’s total participation in the learning experience probably covers all learning styles, but in particular, includes the Far Right Brainers. I can think of all kinds of examples. The point is: God in His amazing wisdom & love raised up a variety of different members of the body of Christ so that all different types of people with all different learning styles would have the opportunity to learn about His Son. When you look at things from this angel it will help you walk in His grace & patience towards others.
My Mother-in-law has four children. Each one of them is a Believer, & each one of them has a different learning style from their other 3 siblings. None of them totally agree with the other three about how things should be done. My Mother-in-law loves all four of them equally.
May the LORD fill you all with His grace towards each other.
Happy Easter/Passover, Dr. Hovind
Geno, Eugene, darling,
I too have had my own posts periodically deleted or cut short/ & on reflection some of them were too speculative or a little bit acidic or unnecessarily condescending, or not sufficiently well established facts. Point is if I had sat on my own hands for 48 hours I might not have sent them myself.
Point I’m making is if anyone of you or others has an important contribution to make to the advancement and growth of this ‘society’ then keep at it. Simply moderate your language or style and repackage the product in a box people want to open.
darling wanted to make the point that the framing of the constitution was an overt act to abrogate the role and influence of Christian religion in American society. That people initially had the desire to promote the religion of secularism. I and others disagree. He perhaps was too dogmatic in his methodology to escape the editors scalpel on a few occasions. so why didn’t he continue on?
Either:- 1. a defeatest attitude. or
2. he might believe he could be wrong. or
3. he didn’t think the participants here were worth the effort of informing of his superior revisions of history.
don’t whinge – re-write what you want to say and resubmit it.
if any man “can contribute” to making us ready for the great and terrible day, please persist. We need you.
reasonable size full moon/ equinocal earthquake event
http://recent-world-news.com/data/articles_w12/idw2008.03.21.08.54.12.html
PA:- maybe, just maybe, God established the new year to occur around the equinoxes to signify Him giving equal consideration of times to both those in the northern and southern hemispheres.
just a thought. [now where do they come from.....]
The Welders Wife
Said this on March 19th, 2008 at 6:02am:
Danny
What’s the proverb that says everybody thinks their version is right until the other side of the story is heard?
Ekkman said
Welder’s Wife,
Does that proverb fit you or do you have a “version”?
A certain welder has told me that the best way to deal with somebody who is a died in the wool KJVer who continually beats somebody else over the head, is to just let them go because they aren’t willing to hear anyone’s else’s side of the story.
Ekkman said
What do you think of the “died in the wool “Hebrew-ers”? Do you think they are willing to hear the other side of the story?
And there is another side of the story. But you’re not willing to listen, & I don’t have time to waste on arguing with you, & neither do I think arguing is proper.
Ekkman said
There is nothing wrong with arguing if it is done decently and in order. We can learn from “arguments”, “debates” if we are building and not going over the same thing again and again and again;
Maybe one of these days the LORD will give you a love for the Jewish people & you’ll seek ways to take the Creation Science Message to them so that they will stop believing in Evolution & put their trust in Messiah. & maybe one of these days you’ll stop blaspheming God’s name too. Jewish people pronounce it as YAHVEH & YAHWEH & YHVH & Yhovah. They never say JEHOVAH because there is no ‘j’ sound in Hebrew. The most important thing about God’s name is the meaning. It comes from the verb ‘to be’, & it means I AM & the letters declare what He did on the execution stake.
Ekkman said
From what I read they do now, some of them or many of them call him “YAHWEH” but at one time they called him, ‘YEHOVAH” I speak English, it is JEHOVAH. Teaching the creation message won’t get them saved, they need to hear how the Lord Jesus Christ died for thsie sins. I love the Jewish people just as I love the Gentile people whether drunks, store managers, shoe salesmen, whoever. All are important in the eyes of God. I have ministered to Jewish people as well as other people. They are all made up of flesh and blood, they are all humans that Jesus died to redeem . What happened to the cross?
The Y is a yod(hand) & it’s the hand of the Creator. The H in ancient Hebrew is a stick picture of a man with raised arms. The v/w is a nail that is used as a hook. Yeshua/Jesus was hooked to the execution stake with the nails. The hand of the Creator was nailed to the execution stake. That is the meaning of the letters of God’s NAME & that is His NAME forever.
Ekkman said
We have talked about this before. I don’t know if it was you or me who brought this up the first time but whatever. It works just as well with YEHOVAH. We don’t need a false god to do that same illustration.
DANNY, you’re never going to get any of this unless you learn Hebrew. Hebrew is spoken every day. It’s not something that’s hidden in some ancient text that the KJV was translated from.
Ekkman said
God gave us his perfect word in English and it is not hidden either. God has seet me free from all kinds of problems in my life and he used the English bible to do it. Incredible! I have offered to let you talk with some who really know the Hebrew, they are scholars but you turned that offer down too. So whether a person doesn’t know Hebew (me) or they do know Hebrew, it doesn’t matter you only want to talk to them if they agree with you. Correct?
It’s not like Koine Greek which is a sealed language & no longer in use.
Ekkman said
I agree and I think I am finally getting one answer to my questions to you. You have been telling the ones on this blog they need to learn the biblical languages and you mentioned Greek as one of them and now you admit that Koine Greek is out, so to speak. So why were you telling the others that they needed to learn them?
And it’s not even hard to learn! Anybody who speaks Hebrew can pick up a Hebrew Bible & read it. They do it all the time! The words are found in a common everyday Hebrew dictionary. But you are not interested in listening to this, so I’m going to take a certain welder’s advice and let you go, but I will keep praying for you & your kids.
Mom.
Ekkman said
As I keep trying to help you to see that I don’t need Hebrew. I know English and I have God’s pure and perfect word in English. So why take the time to learn Hebrew. I have shared with you plenty of times, the Hebrew speaking people don’t agree with each other. The two that I know and have submitted to this blog time disagree with your Hebrew conclusions. One is a Hebrew scholar and he says that you don’t know Hebrew if you think “YAHWEH” is a name for God. You tell me that I can’t understand Hebrew until I learn it, you talk it with others on this blog who don’t know it. You won’t talk to my friend who knows it very well. Why? You think that he can’t understand your logic in Hebrew???
You said above that I can pick up a Hebrew bible and read it. Are you saying that all you have is a Hebrew “bible”? Where is your new testament (covenant)? Did someone translate it into Hebrew for you? What and where is your new testament (covenant)? Do you have one? Do you read the new covenant (testament) that we are under? Please let me know. Thanks!
Ekkman
pabramson
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 7:30am:
Dear EKKMAN,
First – let’s deal with the side issue.
Our Creator as (from Hebrew, using English) “Elohiym”:
Ekkman said:
I have no problem with “Elohim” since it lines up with the KJV usage but “God” would be a better term for English speaking people. Most English speaking people that I know like to hear what a man or woman is talking about it their language. Paul said: : 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.”
Even though in context Paul is talking about a supernatural gift of tongues not a learned one. Still the principle is the same, Talk in the language of the people around you.
Genesis 1:1 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=1&version=KJV#1
Genesis 1:27 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=27&version=KJV#27
===
Our Creator as (from Hebrew, using English) “Yahovah”:
Ekkman said:
I have no problem with that but a better spelling for the English speaking people would be “Jerhovah” or LORD so as to not wear out your Father’s name using it too much.
Genesis 3:22 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=22&version=KJV#22
Genesis 6:5 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=6&verse=5&version=KJV#5
===
Our Creator as (from Hebrew, using English) “Adonay”:
Ekkman said:
I have no problem with that but “Lord” used in conjunction with God or Jehovah would be of a big help as the KJV translators did in the KJV so as not to use LORD Lord or something along those lines and other similar illustrations.
Genesis 15:2 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=15&verse=2&version=KJV#2
Genesis 18:3 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=18&verse=3&version=KJV#3
So EKKMAN, you can call me Paul, Mr. Paul, Mr. Abramson, Herr Abramson, Moderator-guy, Indiana Paul, Bub, Hey Slick, Yo Pizza Face, or other names.
Ekkman said:
That’s cool, Pizza Face if you are truly serious about it. I would think it would get confusing if everyone writing on this blog alone called you a different name. I really don’t honestly think you would like it as much as you pretend here.
Back to God though, I believe that he deserves much more reverance in regards to his name that you do. I don’t think I should call him, “Lucifer, Mah-hah-Bone, Yahweh, Pickled Feet or whatever. I choose to have much more respect for my Father in heaven.
In the New Testament, Jesus often refers to our Father in Heaven, as “Father” (from Greek: “pater”). We though are different – we are sons of God, not just a “son of man” as humans (ALL humans after Adam & Eve, as only they were direct creations of God), throughout the O.T.
Ekkman said:
I have no problem with that. I have even said time and time again on this blog that we should call him Father as Jesus set the example for us to do. I even asked others on here, “How often do you call your physical father by his first name? I would say the majority hardly ever except probably in the same way that “JEHOVAH” is used very few times such as a first time introduction, etc.
John 1:12 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.” Our relationship to God is different now.
Ekkman said:
We are sons of God by adoption because of the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I came across a web page with a long discussion of YHWH and our Creator’s other names. Perhaps it would be of interest: http://www.seekgod.ca/htname.htm
Yesterday, in another discussion, I quoted the verse (Genesis 4:10) where God tells Cain that “the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground”. Did the blood’s voice use God’s proper name? How important was that to the total communication event?
Go back one step further – Eden:
Genesis 3:9 “And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?”
Genesis 3:10 “And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
It was not, “Adam, where are thou?” And the reply was not, “Elohiym, I heard thy voice in the garden….”
Ekkman said:
Not trying to sound rude, crude or unkind but those illustrations does not fit in the least what we are talking about. Sometimes I just scream for help because I am hurting so bad, he hears me. I don’t even say a name but as said earler if I do say a name it won’t be some sloppy pagan name such as I have shown above and in other posts.
Names are important designations. They hold meaning; they can connote respect or a lack of respect, or a particular characteristic. But we cannot pronounce God’s true name in the first place, right?
Ekkman said:
??? You got me on that one. I have no idea what you are talking about.
“Jehovah-Jireh”, means: The Lord Sees and Will Provide. It is a name with an attribute. Here is another web site with information about our God’s names: http://www.freegrace.net/dfbooks/dfnamesGodbk/NAMES2.htm
Ekkman said:
I was just at a Hebrew talking page and the guy who runs it said that it doesn’t mean what you just said it meant. I am not on the web at the moment. I will try to find the site again. I think I have bookmarked or something like that. It kind of freaked me. Oh well! That Hebrew problem again.
On Mars Hill, Paul said: Acts 17:23 “For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.”
Did God, even though they did not know His name, recognize their needs and respond anyway through the Apostle Paul? Knowing His exact proper name was secondary to this situation, at the best, it appears to me.
Ekkman said:
Same answer as above, they didn’t use the wrong name. If they cried out to Lucifer, Satan, do you think that God would answer? Names are super important to God and he has a name and it wasn’t lost for a pagan “atheist”, agnostic” to find it and give it back to us. God said that his name would be remembered forever, did it get lost and then found again around the 1800’s? I think not!
So, are we done with the SIDE issue?
Ekkman said:
It is a side issue with you not me and I think I can speak for God, it is not a side issue with him. I would go so far as to say that the “creation/evolution debate” is much more of a side issue with him than his name is.
=====
MAIN Issue – your meanness. Where is the love?
Ekkman said:
Paul, you call it meanness but I call it love. Paul the apostle said, “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” I will be held accountable to what I say and don’t say. I am willing to become your enemy and the “Welder’s Wife at the expense of truth just as Paul the apostle was willing to be an enemy for the truth’s sake.
Evolutionists, for example, regularly tell me “over and over” that evolution is true. That does not necessarily persuade me, being told something “over and over”.
What on Earth have you got against learning Hebrew?!
Ekkman said:
I can tell you over and over but you will never know if until you are willing to study it out for yourself. And if you do not have God’s word where you can read it and believe it without searching for something that you choose at the moment and may change tomorrow when a “better bible” comes along then you don’t have anything. You won’t get the answers from the Hebrew since even there as with Welder’s Wife you must “choose” which one to believe. That is why there is a war raging on the Hebrew front, which one do I believe. I have only used two people that I am aquainted with who know Hebrew; One knows it very good and I am not sure how well the other knows it but both are in disagreement with the Welder’s Wife.
You asked what do I have against the Hebrew? Nothing! I just don’t need it. I can make a lot better use of my time learning Spanish, there are tons of Spanish speaking people here to talk to and the way it is going, they might be the majority one day soon. Anyway, I don’t see many problems that the Hebrew has solved. I just mentioned two others who know Hebrew and they are not in agreement with the Welder’s Wife.
That is a great thing to do! The rest of us can glean from one who has taken the trouble to learn the original language of over half the Bible.
Ekkman said:
Learn what? I guess a lot from your perspective since it doesn’t sound like you have a perfect bible. I would think the Hebrew speaking people could get a lot of insight into the bible from the English speaking people.
Leave WELDERS WIFE alone, you bully.
Ekkman said:
Sticks and stones can break my bones and words can really hurt too but I am willing to become your enemy and the Welder’s Wife at the expense of truth. Sorry that you take that as being a bully. I think you have to redefine words like the world is doing to do it though.
(Hey, 3 CROSSES – am I being too direct again?)
There are times when it is important to “keep the main thing the main thing”.
Ekkman said:
And the main thing to you is what???
God’s Word is more important that God’s Name. Both are important. But please do not get side-tracked and then come down so hard on one who disagrees with you. Particularly on such a minor thing.
Ekkman said:
I have already answered this one. God’s word contains his name. At the name of Jesus every knee will bow not at the name of Jehovah.
Jesus taught in the Temple during part of His ministry on a daily basis. And yet, He only cleared the tables of the money changers once or twice. Daily, He saw what they were doing.
We PICK AND CHOOSE our battles. Jesus chose to NOT clear the Temple of the money changers – except once (or perhaps twice). Other words and actions of His were more important for Him to do, correct? He would walk past them each day in the Temple. Usually, He elected to NOT interfere with what they were doing, though it was wrong, of course. I am now asking you to please “keep the main thing the main thing”. WWJD?
Ekkman said:
So should everyone pick and choose the battles that you believe they should choose? I have a life in God and I must listen to his voice as you are called to do. I don’t agree with everything that you do on this web site and the way you do it at times. But then again, I am a different part of the body than you are and we don’t operate the same just as an arm doesn’t work like a leg or nose or whatever.
Is it your intent to hurt WW? … Why the litany of insults you sometimes fling in her direction? Are you in some way mad at all women, so you take it out on her too? Or is it something else?
Ekkman said:
Truth only hurts when you are not walking in it and are not willing to walk in it then it hurts. No, I have no desire whatsoever to hurt Welder’s Wife but then again a little pain now is a lot better than a lot of pain later on, if you follow my drift.
Matthew 18:6 “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
I do not see a precondition on that – to indicate that the warning only applies to non-believers!
Ekkman said:
I don’t believe that it does just apply to non-believers. If speaking truth in your estimation is offending then so be it there is good offence and bad offence. If she is offended by truth the it must be. Jesus offended many for the cause of truth.
I have seen her use various strategies to try to persuade you to use 2-WAY respect. It appears to me that you want a situation of 1-WAY respect. That never works. It is either 2-WAY or ZERO-WAY, eventually. She even tried getting you to start calling her “Mom” a couple of months back. Still it seems that you routinely discount any and every response from her. Am I wrong? When have you taken the effort to affirm her as a person, as a sister in Christ, and as one who is important? (Point me to a past posting of yours, if I have missed this.)
Ekkman said:
That 2 way respect could be very dangerous. I think you are saying that she will put up with my “Jehovah” if I will put up with her “Yahweh”? Am I correct? If so you would have loved it in Rome back in Jesus’ day. He could he a god but not the only God. Are you saying that both sides are true? I think you are. So if I am reading the NIV and I see that God said his name was Yahweh and I read the KJV and I see that God said that his name is JEHOVAH then both are correct? Fraid not! If I believe that all of the bibles are of God then I guess that I would be in that position as well as many other really bad ones. I don’t choose to be there, no matter how many bibles scholars tell me that it is true. I have God’s word and it is not the new bibles.
Not knowing how you are perceiving this message, let me pray to our Creator for you:
“Yahweh, please help this man, who goes by the nickname of EKKMAN to come closer to you. You know his heart and his mind. He, like all of us – NEEDS your help. So many problems in life. He visits this blog almost daily, contributing to a variety of discussions. I pray for wisdom and discernment for him. I pray for the fruits of the spirit to be evident in all his communications with other persons, both here and as he meets persons each day. In the Messiah’s Name I pray, Amen.”
Paul Abramson
Ekkman said:
And it closing you made your biggest slam on me since you know that I hate YAHWEH. You deliberately did it to spite me and you think that I am not moving in love to Welder’s Wife??? What a trip! Pull the beam out of your eye before you deal with the mote in other’s eyes, so to speak.
Ekkman
Paul,
My post in answer to your comments didn’t go through. I will send it again after this note.
Ekkman
Paul,
I guess my comments to your comments aren’t showing up, they must be going to the garbage or spam box, whatever.
Ekkman
Paul,
I tried three times to post my answers to your comments but to no avail. Oh well! Praise the Lord anyhow!
Ekkman
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Oh, I found them. The program that "scans" incoming posts tries to determine which ones may just be "spam". (A lot of spam comes in.) I then have to go look for any real messages in there, which I do on most days. There were so many links in it (as you quoted what I had posted from before) that it did send your big messages there. ...I retrieved the last one (most correct or most complete?) and have posted it. Sorry for the delay. Thank you for your thoughtful reply. ...I haven't read it yet; but I am sure it will be interesting. P.A. ]
eugene,
Mel Gibson, producer of “The Passion of the Christ” is a Catholic, and a very conservative one.
but seeing he did such a good job with this film I think we should give him the
CSEblogs Honorary Protestant Award for Cinematography. He got pipped for the Oscar so He might put our award on his the empty spot on the shelf.
Since I can’t get the longer one to go through, I will send this short one that you sent me a few hours later. It is coming next.
pabramson
Said this on March 20th, 2008 at 10:59am:
Oh, this Scripture (that I mentioned earlier), in Hebrew actually refers to our God as “Yahovah Elohiym”.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=22&version=KJV#22
It is Genesis 3:22, “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…”
Ekkman said:
I can’t follow your illustrations some of the times but “Yahovah Elohim” is one form of “LORD God” Good! I read English, I don’t read Hebrew and I have the perfect word of God in the English language so I don’t need the Hebrew bible just as Kent focuses on the our perfect English bible not the Hebrew.
If my longer post is going to the trash bin, I would appreciate it if you would take it out and post it for me. Thanks!
Ekkman
[EDITOR'S NOTE: "Perfect" ... ? ... in English?
Is the Russian translation of the Majority Text also "perfect". Or the French...? What makes the English one "perfect"? P.A. ]
Dear JASON,
THANK YOU! for your kind comments (March 22nd, 2008 at 7:16pm).
I am sorry that your first experience with this blog was in the “tax wars” that raged last year. Like for other important subjects, some people were very, very “intense” in their replies. But I am glad that you are still out there!
People post on ALL KINDS of things here! To me it is very interesting. I hope that for BOTH of us, it continues to be educational as well.
Paul Abramson
Dear GANF,
Hello! Okay, this time I will save the link locally.
Please remind us again of your “CSE anti-pode” blog site – for those souls who have been unjustly maligned by my onerous editorial proclivities!
Thanks, Paul Abramson
Matthew 7:25-27 “And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not; for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
Values built on a solid foundation can survive a storm. Values that are built on shifting sands will fail when a storm comes. America’s values are being hollowed out. Belief in evolution (that God does not see or He is weak and far away) is a major part of this evil. Values weaken internally. Then a storm will come. Will folks band together or turn against one another at that time?
“Oregon man’s property ransacked after Craigslist hoax”
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_032408_news_craigslist_hoax.1ffb2c9c.html
From Article: “… On his way home he stopped a truck loaded down with his work ladders, lawn mower and weed eater.
“‘I informed them I was the owner, but they refused to give the stuff back,’ Salisbury said. ‘They showed me the Craigslist printout and told me they had the right to do what they did.’…”
for Jesus’ name: Phillip-George (c)1974 Said this on March 23rd, 2008 at 4:20pm:
so why didn’t [darling] continue on?
Either:- 1. a defeatest attitude. or
2. he might believe he could be wrong. or
3. he didn’t think the participants here were worth the effort of informing of his superior revisions of history.
and/or 4. The moderator chose to curtail all discussion on the topic.
don’t whinge – re-write what you want to say and resubmit it.
It’s pointless to re-write a direct quote from the founding fathers.
But still, no whinging. Again, you’re welcome to discuss over at:
http://groups.google.com/group/cseantipode
You’ll see EndTimes avoid that particular quotation four? five? six? times.
Beloved Brother Kent Hovind,
Precious greetings to you in Jesus name.
Surely Gold fears no fire for gold is purified by fire.
It’s surely not pleasant to feel the heat.
Look forward to the beauty that will come out of you after passing through God’s refining fire.
The joy of our Lord Jesus will remain your strength.
We are praying for you & watching the videos. Trusting the Lord to expand our scope of viewers.
Your work is continuing & we trust the Lord to bring you out so you can impart more unto us.
Your sister in the Lord Jesus,
Sade Tennyson